Storm Trooper Mafia

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

Oshha said:
Facts might be a bit of an exaggeration is it is just this bit that you got wrong:

Rosen was town reading Nictis and not a proponent of them. Through I'm not actually sure what Rosen was thinking. They stated that they had town reads on you and Nictis and had a scum read on Byzantine if forced to choose between you and Byzantine.

Furthermore, it wasn't narrow. It was a toss of up of you, Nictis and Rosen until things finalised as the day came to an end with a majority deciding that preferred a Rosen lynch over a Nictis or Meso lynch.

I missed the Nictis run entirely. By the time I got back to my computer, I was 6 votes down. (It looked like 7 because Broken BAse' vote was still on there). I think I got on with like 10 minutes left in the day. When I left I hadn't been voted for except by Byzantine so I was pretty surprised. Rosen was the only one close to me in votes. Ultimately, I voted for Rosen because I know I'm not scum and II was only pretty sure Rosen wasn't.

That said, I didn't have a chance to reread the thread from the beginning and I didn't want to wait any later to start posting since I have already been inexcusably absent from this game. P robably should have lurked moar but I wanted to actually play.

Let me ask you this: I still think Nictis and Byzantine are scum. What are the chances I would still be pushing for them if I was scum? If I were scum, I'd have 9 or 10 targets to pick from and would probably be coordinating with my fellows to build up a case. As it is, I am coming close to getting lynched because I am sticking to my guns on my reads.

And I do think that is why @Nictis is still trying to get me lynched. He tagged a low post player and asked them to confirm whether his "read was bad" which was basically a list of reasons to lynch me. He made a big deal about "meaningless bullshit" when I asked if anybody else got a "nothing happened" PM. (Which nobody else had mentioned yet and which I doubt the scum received since they are active at night.)

I might be wrong about who the scum team are, but they are by far my strongest reads.

Oshha · Nov 23, 2019

I would like QT to post something.

[X] Lynch QTesseract

Nictis · Nov 23, 2019

mesonoxian said:
And I do think that is why @Nictis is still trying to get me lynched. He tagged a low post player and asked them to confirm whether his "read was bad" which was basically a list of reasons to lynch me. He made a big deal about "meaningless bullshit" when I asked if anybody else got a "nothing happened" PM. (Which nobody else had mentioned yet and which I doubt the scum received since they are active at night.)

Okay, so. Remember when you said that I was trying to get you lynched while Byzantine backed off? Both of us were voting InterstellarHobo. Remember when I asked you to explain why you thought Byzantine was scum? You told me to go read the thread because the arguments had already been made and it'd be obvious who the scum were in those interactions. If you are Town, I can only see that as you not bothering because you were so set in the idea that I was Byzantine's scumbuddy. I still don't know why you think that. Remember how Day 1, it was a three way tie between me, you, and Byzantine and I voted up Rosen? Remember how you talked about how I was shutting up one of the biggest talkers about the Byzantine/Nictis team? Remember how I didn't have time to followup when voting Rosen and offered to claim because I didn't have time?

Meso, excuse me for being rude, but pull your head out of your ass and consider the possibility of being wrong instead of letting your bias shape your memory of what has happened. I'm not saying don't consider me scum, I'm not saying don't consider Byzantine scum, I'm saying to take the moment and consider a potential world where you didn't nail most of the scum Day 1.

Or at the very least tell me why you seem to think that we're scum. The origin, not this constant twisting of events.

1KBestK · Nov 23, 2019

@mesonoxian people telling you you're wrong or doing something incorrectly doesn't mean they're shading you.

InterstellarHobo · Nov 23, 2019

God damn, I did not realize we were so close to EOD. I'm going to be up for the next 14-18 hours probably,

Oshha said:
Hobo = Neutral with lean towards scum. They have been weirdly inconsistent and flip-floppy which admittedly could be due to being new rather than being scum.

This is a problem, yes. It was also a problem last game. Not sure how to adjust to fix.

Oshha said:
Everyone else hasn't given me enough to go off of yet for any reads, which I don't like because it looks like inactive vets. It might just be me, but it feels like the inexperienced players have generally been more active than the experienced ones.

It's not just you.
I think there has been, in total, more activity from experienced players, but proportionally the veterans have been annoyingly quiet.

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

1KBestK said:
@mesonoxian people telling you you're wrong or doing something incorrectly doesn't mean they're shading you.

No, but I think there is such a thing as intentionally casting actions in the worst possible light. I didn't compel a bunch of people to say if they got a "nothing happened" PM. I said I did and asked if I was alone in that. Because I never got a PM from the GM during the last game. A simple confirmation from someone else they did to meant that this was not a useful data point.

Nictis said:
Okay, so. Remember when you said that I was trying to get you lynched while Byzantine backed off? Both of us were voting InterstellarHobo. Remember when I asked you to explain why you thought Byzantine was scum? You told me to go read the thread because the arguments had already been made and it'd be obvious who the scum were in those interactions. If you are Town, I can only see that as you not bothering because you were so set in the idea that I was Byzantine's scumbuddy. I still don't know why you think that. Remember how Day 1, it was a three way tie between me, you, and Byzantine and I voted up Rosen? Remember how you talked about how I was shutting up one of the biggest talkers about the Byzantine/Nictis team? Remember how I didn't have time to followup when voting Rosen and offered to claim because I didn't have time?

Meso, excuse me for being rude, but pull your head out of your ass and consider the possibility of being wrong instead of letting your bias shape your memory of what has happened. I'm not saying don't consider me scum, I'm not saying don't consider Byzantine scum, I'm saying to take the moment and consider a potential world where you didn't nail most of the scum Day 1.

Or at the very least tell me why you seem to think that we're scum. The origin, not this constant twisting of events.

You said you didn't have time to read the thread then. Well, I didn't have time to post a summary. I wasn't trying to be rude, but I had already said earlier in the thread I was about to go to work. If I had the time I would have laid them out. The reason I didn't reply to your response was that I was at work without internet access.

And I don't remember your vote, because again, I was without internet for the entire end of day up until the last 10 minutes or so.

I know I could be wrong. I don't know for sure your scum. But every time I start to doubt it you do something that makes me suspicious. We build up pictures of what might be going on and confirmation bias is always a possibility. I said day 1 the chances of my being right were pretty small, but that doesn't mean I can throw out my existing reads and start fresh. Of course things are colored by what went before.

As you could probably tell, this is a bad brain chemistry day for me. It is why I am all over and having a hard time remembering things. And I know I look like a jack ass on those days, but it isn't because I am not trying to keep up.

I will post a longer bit about why I have been scum reading you in a bit, but I wanted to post this first.

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

Damn it, the text editor just ate my post. I'll be a bit longer.

1KBestK · Nov 23, 2019

mesonoxian said:
No, but I think there is such a thing as intentionally casting actions in the worst possible light. I didn't compel a bunch of people to say if they got a "nothing happened" PM. I said I did and asked if I was alone in that. Because I never got a PM from the GM during the last game. A simple confirmation from someone else they did to meant that this was not a useful data point.

Yes, there is, and it's what you are doing right now. He was telling you that it's bad to mass claim things like that. He didn't even vote to lynch you for it.

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

@Nictis
Take two.

Broken Base was making a push against Dawiusz. Dawiusz had a very weak argument that Byzantine was scum they were pushing very hard. Looking back BB had initially voted with Dawiusz against Byzantine on some pretty weak grounds, then switched to pushing against Dawiusz. When I checked into the game, that lynch was ahead. I didn't think that was good because I read Dawiusz as very towny, and this being my first hammer game I was nervous we would have a mislynch watching the votes pile up. So I argued they weren't and I threw in the possibility that Broken Base and Byzantine were a team, with BB's initial vote being a distancing maneuver and her push against Dawiusz being their to get rid of a threat and take pressure off her scum buddy. I didn't offer nor have any evidence, nor claim to have any, I just wanted to put forward the idea because guessing at these things is the whole game.

Rosen argued this was too obvious a plot for BB to engage in and we went back and forth for a bit about that. Broken Base's response seemed weirdly intense for what had been an off the cuff guess which I admitted I had no further evidence for. So I went from thinking "this is probably nothing" to lending the thought as bit more credence, just because BB seemed sort of threatened by it. I figured that might mean she was scum, but it would be too lucky to get two scum picked out on Day 1.

Then Byzantine came up with a push I thought was really scummy (in the kindest possible sense

). Against me, worst of all! Basically making a claim that I had attempted some sort of statistics based hit against Broken Base and Byzantine and which seemed to distort several elements of my actual argument to make them seem substantially less credible and more scummy and kept at it when I corrected them. So that made me further suspect them as scum. Then, looking back a bit, you had logged on about thirty minutes or so before that push started. Up until this point, Byzantine had posted a lot, but there weren't a lot of narratives or pushes or anything. So I look at this and the scenario I think is "experienced scum player replaced by a new experienced scum player, inexperienced scum player gets new directives".

It was just too nice a coincidence to pass up. Then I check in again and see these:

Nictis said:
@ComiTurtle I can't tell if this is an uncharitable read or not. Meso's Day 1 Statistics posting, claiming to not be in a Quick Topic second post, unprompted claiming Vanilla Town, and first post of Day 2 asking everyone if anything happened to them in the night. The followups of claiming not to expect people to tell the truth about that stuff... It kinda feels like he's trying to get info to me.

Which I took as an attempt to get another push started and this:

Byzantine said:
I think Meso is more or less making a different than mine but still clear series of beginners mistakes now that he doesn't have ES holding his hand on how to avoid them. In my case I have a bad habit of forgetting the value of null information. Meso seems to be forgetting the value of accurate but minor information.

This may be a smokescreen for a surprisingly risky early play as scum, though.

which again, seemed like laying the framework for another push after I escaped the last one Byzantine set up by the skin of my teeth.

So it confirmed my already paranoid outlook that you guys were plotting against me. Which is about where we came in.

And my head feels like it is full of bees, so I am going to go get a drink. I hope this helps clarify my position.

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

1KBestK said:
Yes, there is, and it's what you are doing right now. He was telling you that it's bad to mass claim things like that. He didn't even vote to lynch you for it.

I simply don't know how else to check if something like that is relevant. People can easily lie about whether they individually got such a PM, but if I had been the only one who got that (maybe a Jedi mindtrick convinced me nothing happened?) that would have potentially been really interesting. I had no idea what it could signify so I mentioned it. Since it was nothing, it was a great big waste of time, but I don't think it did harm.

Sure, scum could decide everyone was being scrupulously honest, but I doubt that was the case.

Byzantine · Nov 23, 2019

mesonoxian said:
which again, seemed like laying the framework for another push after I escaped the last one Byzantine set up by the skin of my teeth.

That was me laying out my reasoning at the time for not pushing you further. Then you went and got me suspicious again.

InterstellarHobo · Nov 23, 2019

I don't think, at this point, we're going to see a response from @QTesseract . I'm pretty ok with an inactivity lynch on them, but I'm hoping an 'actual reasons' lynch surfaces.

Realistically, I'm probably going to get one or two down this list, and no further.

I think the D1 evidence against Nictis/Byzantine has been laid out in full detail. I think there is legitimate reason to be suspicious there, but not strong reason. Hopefully there is something to be found D2.

After that, I'm going to stare at Mesonoxian for a while. I haven't liked the arguments against them I've actually examined, but suspicion remains.

Fourth in the list is a second look at Nanimani vs 1K- I think there is more information to be had there than my perfunctory questioning uncovered.

Nanimani · Nov 23, 2019

Oshha said:
@Nanimani Why are you voting to lynch 1k? I can find it isn't because of them voting for Rosen, but I am unable to find the actual reason.

It isn't, huh? Good to know.

Byzantine said:
Hmm. This makes me townread Meso and Comi a bit. Meso was the first to actually say something, so if he was scum it was a serious risk than an actual VT would call him out, which at D2 seems like a big risk to take when there isn't a wagon on him.

Comi because he is right that this is dangerous for whatever Town power roles we have left. Which while common sense seems poor for scum to point out while people are still doing it.

Maybe I just have less sensitivity to things like this, but:
Vanilla maf, only with kill action, while someone else got chosen to kill? They'd get the same message in the night as a vanilla townie.
Meanwhile, Comi... I dunno, maybe I'm paranoid, but when someone calls a bad action a bad thing to do and explains why, that's NAI to me. It's not like it's a push on someone as sus or supporting someone as townie. All in all, my natural response is to give them a townie point, but then I ask what scum would lose doing it and maybe the townie point is what they want and aaaa wifom hurts.

Nictis said:
Boom, found 'em.

?

Nictis said:
@ComiTurtle Ties can resolve in one of six ways. The first is that the first person to reach that point is lynched, the second is that it is a coinflip, the third is that it becomes akin to a Gladiator match. The Day gets extended and the first person to have a higher wagon between the two (All other votes are void) dies. The fourth is that someone entirely random gets lynched (I don't think this has ever been done here), the fifth is that both are lynched (Also fairly rare to prevent anyone from trying to game the system) and the last is that nobody is lynched.

I want it pointed out that standing policy on SV for this is "Whatever is worse for town, unless Scum deliberately caused it, in which case whatever is worse for them" Ties aren't a neutral thing, they are to be avoided at all costs.

Oshha said:
I don't like how Nani's vote on 1K or them being weirdly defensive of Rosen, but I'm not exactly scum reading for it even if I don't understand why they are doing it.

You can argue with my 1K vote, that's fine, but the Rosen defending was not due to game in general. I just think if they got lynched earlygame three games in a row and D1 two games in a row, that'd make me feel bad. Moreso if I participated in it. Even if they themselves don't agree with the D1 protections, that doesn't change my own view of them.

mesonoxian said:
I mean, I still think you and Nictis are scumbuddies, enough so I used what I thought was my last post to say so.

Yeah, I'll be honest. That's the only real reason I'd be neutral-slight town lean for you now if I could work up the effort to change my notes. It felt genuine.

mesonoxian said:
Okay, that makes more sense wrt the unusual pm.

I saw somebody I'm like 70% scum reading ask for more info and got paranoid.

And I tend to say most of what crosses my mind unless it relates to a power role or something like that.

My goal wasn't scumhunting, it was to see if that pm was abnormal or not. Once it was confirmed to be, scum and or alike can lie, and it does nothing. But if owas the only one who got one, that'd be important to know.

I didn't think about a town rb. But if anything that does provide a reason to be suspicious of someone insisting we need to say if we've been roleblocked (since it will help scum narrow down who they could be.)

I thought I did this before but the tally says no:

[X] lynch nictis

Please don't make me regret the above response because holy shit this is a bad post. I'm just... I'm just gonna chalk it up to newbie and go on with my life.
1: It doesn't matter whether the PM was abnormal. Nothing happened to you. If something happened, yeah, maybe that's worth calling out.
2: No it won't help scum narrow down who it could be because everyone would get that message, power role or no. You should know this, people talked about it last game. It's why I was so confident calling out that I was RB'd as the Cop because I knew that even if I was a vanilla townie, I'd still have gotten that message and letting people know about the RBer was important.

Nictis said:
I... What?

Okay, so I've been busy. I haven't been able to completely catch up, hence why my timeline is incomplete. What I remember is this:

Rosen was Townreading me.
Hobo and someone else thought they nailed the scumteam as BB(Me)/Byzantine/Rosen.
Meso had been claiming that Byzantine was scummy but refused to provide reasons or point at a previous post at the EoD because why the hell would he bother?
The three wagons were Myself, Byzantine, and you. I was tied with both of you and voted up Rosen instead of self preservation voting on either of you because I didn't see the issue between you two and while Byzantine was at least willing to say why he was voting you I didn't really get it.
The lynch ended at like, 7-4 or something.

What the heck are you remembering?
(And why were you suspecting me and Byzantine as a scumteam again?)

So on the page he posted that message, there was a vote tally.

[X] Null
4 people have voted

Dawiusz

ComiTurtle

LostDeviljho

1KBestK

[X] Lynch mesonoxian
4 people have voted

Broken Base

Byzantine

Nanimani

Tykan

[X] Lynch -Rosen.
3 people have voted

Nictis

Oshha

QTesseract

[X] Lynch Nictis
3 people have voted

InterstellarHobo

Cyricubed

-Rosen

[X] Lynch Byzantine
1 people have voted

mesonoxian

It's not as much of a lead as it looks like because BB wasn't in the game anymore at that point. However, three more people voted for him (and one for Rosen) between the tally and that vote, leaving the tally at that point as 6/4, with him definitely in the lead to get lynched, and I could definitely see him not noticing that one of the votes on him was invalid, so it may've looked like 7/4. It, uh... I kinda made that mistake until someone pointed it out.

Oshha said:
Nani = Neutral, but I don't like their play so far even if I'm not finding anything scummy.

What a coincidence.

I'm really sorry for how quiet I'm being this Day. Tried to start getting through the thread like three-four times, kept getting distracted and going off with something else.

Nanimani · Nov 23, 2019

Nanimani said:
However, three more people voted for him (and one for Rosen) between the tally and that vote,

*and that post. Wasn't a vote.

Nictis · Nov 23, 2019

mesonoxian said:
@Nictis
Take two.

Alright, to preface this. I have two things I want to say about this. The first is quite frankly thank you.

The second is that I am going to sound like an ass here.

Nictis said:
Can anyone else explain what's going on? What are the arguments against Meso and Byzantine? Why are the other two wagons new players? If someone else knows why my wagon exists, it would be helpful because I'm currently staring at a sudden swingaround lynch on me because we don't lynch new players Day 1 barring some serious misplays.

Nictis said:
@mesonoxian Taking the assumption that me and Byzantine are not in a scumteam together, what do you think of things? And how did Byzantine's playstyle change when I subbed in? Is the vote on Byzantine just for associations and voting you or is there more to it?

mesonoxian said:
I don't think it would be beneficial to explain exactly what is different about the posting style to you. You and others can look back over the previous posts and judge for yourselves. The biggest element was suddenly going from mostly low content posting that is entirely to be expected on Day 1 from a new player, scum or town, to engaging in a concerted push with a developed false narrative attached.

My vote for Byzantine is based on their attempt to misrepresent my earlier posts to push a lynch. That isn't something town would have any desire to do. That it came so shortly after you subbed in makes me think you are quite possibly on a team with Byzantine, but it isn't the reason I think they look scummy.

mesonoxian said:
The posts have been quoted, I am confident that people who bother to read them can make up their own minds about which of us is accurately describing them.

Nictis said:
... Mate, I'm asking because I don't have the time to read everything. I've got to get to work, and then the Day is gonna end. A quick page number or link if you have time, please.

mesonoxian said:
We'll, looks like I'm out.

I'm town and I have no info to offer but what I have given. When I flip town in a few minutes, strongly advise looking at Byzantine and Nictis.

mesonoxian said:
I sure wouldn't mind. I don't know if Rosen is scum, though, and they did get day 1 lynched last game, so it seems a bit unfair

mesonoxian said:
[X] Lynch -Rosen

I'll put in a vote and let you decide.

mesonoxian said:
Claiming, I didn't lie before. I'm just a storm trooper.

mesonoxian said:
Glad you said that, I was about to self vote to avoid a tie

All I was asking for was a quick pointer on where to look, the refusal to engage before was the most frustrating thing for me. That your original scumread on me amounted to "Had logged in when subbed out and Byzantine started pushing me" isn't the best for me to engage with.

What can I say here? That I wouldn't direct a new player to make a concerted lynch effort against you? It is kinda my thing, not to mention that I wasn't caught up with the thread and didn't have a damn clue as to what the gamestate was.

Anyways, I'm heading to bed. IRL shit got me in a bad mood after I saw your post, so sorry for being snappy. I'm just kinda split between gratitude and wanting to call bullshit atm.

Someone figure out what's up with Nani for me, I don't remember why people were questioning him but I don't remember it going anywhere.

Nanimani · Nov 23, 2019

Hum. I would be happy with a QT lynch, though I'd prefer to wait until tomorrow before really pushing that to give him more time to contribute.

QTesseract · Nov 23, 2019

Me: Ugh. My head still feels like shit and I'm sneezing a ton, but Hopefully I can get some posting done.
narrators voice, 4 hours later: He did not get the posting done

Right. So. let's try to fix that, at least. Not happy with my current day reads, but I'm still not a fan of nanimani. Them going after @1KBestK isn't terrible, per se, but their reasoning is such that it leaves them with essentially no skin in the game if 1kbestk flips town, and they have neither pressed their read nor changed their mind, which isn't a hugely good look. Add in that their reasoning is honestly nai, since it's frankly something that 1k does every game, and the fact that I wasn't a huge fan of them day one for among other things their setting up but not pushing theories like -Rosen+Nictis on no evidence, which to me smacks of setting up for a mislynch later if they survive. Thankfully, that was cut off by rosen flipping town, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore it.

[X] Lynch Nanimani

QTesseract · Nov 23, 2019

And also wow the 4 hours later part didn't age well either. If I could edit posts there'd be a second one of those, or at least fix it so that it didn't have the wrong time due to me having to get started on it a third time to finish it up. Blegh.

mesonoxian · Nov 23, 2019

Nictis said:
Alright, to preface this. I have two things I want to say about this. The first is quite frankly thank you.

The second is that I am going to sound like an ass here.

All I was asking for was a quick pointer on where to look, the refusal to engage before was the most frustrating thing for me. That your original scumread on me amounted to "Had logged in when subbed out and Byzantine started pushing me" isn't the best for me to engage with.

What can I say here? That I wouldn't direct a new player to make a concerted lynch effort against you? It is kinda my thing, not to mention that I wasn't caught up with the thread and didn't have a damn clue as to what the gamestate was.

Anyways, I'm heading to bed. IRL shit got me in a bad mood after I saw your post, so sorry for being snappy. I'm just kinda split between gratitude and wanting to call bullshit atm.

Someone figure out what's up with Nani for me, I don't remember why people were questioning him but I don't remember it going anywhere.

No, you're fine. Real life is frustrating and games are supposed to be fun. Sorry if I made things unfun for you. I'll try to do better.

[X] Null

my brain is too fried to be leaving votes up in a hammer game.

My bishop is coming over for a visit tomorrow so between cleaning the house and visiting I don't how much I'll be on, but I will try to check in again before EoD tomorrow.

ComiTurtle · Nov 24, 2019

So yeah some things came up, and I decided to do things to destress, I enjoy mafia but its not necessarily a great destresser you know. And now I'm choosing to not sleep (after getting on a good schedule for once in a few months because you all deserve something from me).

So have a sort of running commentary done over a few posts.

Byzantine said:
and no one ever listens to Comi, including comi.

Byzantine said:
but since that's apparently a bad move I need more information.

Byzantine, in general, has existed in this very strange space throughout the game to me, almost liminal. They have this knack for bringing up some meta information and ideas whilst being a newbie technically, the things that protect them, in general, are well knowing they were reading the last game, and we do have many guides for new players in our mega-thread, and these all help point away from Byzantine not being in conversation with a vet that is helping them along, but its still something that I keep feeling in their posts, this knowledge, and familiarity that seems strange from a "new" player. I've in general put them on the side of not in conversation with a vet, because frankly, these statements of meta-knowledge are weird for scum to willingly make, but it doesn't stop my mind from wandering.

Oshha said:
I currently think that if either Nictis or Byzantine flip scum, then we should look at the other, but I don't believe if one is scum, the other has to be scum as well.

I also don't believe that Rosen and 1k would be scum together so since I got a scum read on Rosen, that makes 1k tentative town lean for me.

Having got some insider perspective on the fight between BB and the guy who I replaced, I believe it is town on town and there for have a tentative town lean on Nictis.

Each of these three lines are interesting, the first suggests a theory of a scum relationship meaning something with Nictis/BB and Byzantine if one side is scum, its an interesting statement and without much extrapolation on it. I find it somewhat strange and can easily paint it as a scum setting up future lynches if an ally is eliminated, however at this point I have a personal town read of Dawiusz, so that extends to Ossha so that painting seems unlikely.

Line two, will be interesting to see if we get any extrapolation on this especially as we move into day 2 where Rosen is town, do we see Oshha make any moves against 1k following that reveal?

Line three, seems interesting two lines down from the first one.

Cyricubed said:
1K is sitting on neutral atm simply because I've had a personal in game view of how they play both town and scum...and honestly it's damned hard to differentiate.

IH - Looks good, I like the posts they've put up so far.

I think Rosen had good intent- However, I the approach was not what I like, but hey, not my approach so *Shrug*.

Comi seems to be sitting back and so does QT, going to review both of them more in depth and also...

Meso's VT claim has me ringing lynch bells atm.. VT claim on day 1 and it wasn't really needed as a reveal.

Just trying to gather some Cyric reads as I go through,

Cyricubed said:
See, I just don't see BB(Now nictis) making such an open linkage. It doesn't fit their meta I think, generally I think BB plays a more subdued but still very acknowledged presence in her games. And example of this is in DBZ mafia where she managed to sink a scum win by playing cleverly and just out of full limelight.

Cyricubed said:
The response I wanted and more, glad to see that at least.

Now why we look at the dead's reads (first because do unto others what you want to done to one's self.

) and because a person's reads can lead into why scum choose them as a death target. You'll always have some level of wine with reading scum rationale and frankly I'd weigh it highly that scum include some general higher quality night targets, and that Cyric is still a fair night kill without much likelihood of being protected, though maybe I missed a soft power-role claim in one of their posts? Idk I never noticed one, so I doubt scum would've but scum are generally eagle-eyed for stuff like that.

But onto what I can gather from this. Lets start at the end, I really don't get why they liked my response to them almost everything I did day 1 was intended to be neutral and fairly laid back, my responses were honest but like I do have the ability to be active and vocal day 1, and to have strong reads, I just didn't this game.

So they have a town read on Nictis here, and Hobo, some mixed feelings on 1k, and some concerns with Meso. These are interesting, they're concerns with Meso were equivalent to mine at the time the claim was very strangely timed and made, and fairly roughly backtracked (and in recent times that backtracking has been pretty destroyed).

I don't get much for targeting based on reads from these posts in particular, certainly doesn't have very strong town or scum reads that scum wanted to solidfy into people's minds (given I don't think I've seen anyone else trying to do this analysis today) that whole theory seems pretty minor, so likely not a scum shading kills or scum awning kills. But maybe I'll get something more in a later post.

Byzantine said:
I couldn't get a firm read on BB, though she was standing out a lot more than she usually does in her scum game until the end. If she was scum she was trying something new, though that isn't out of the question for her.

See... this is the kind of post that makes me suspect Byz, BB's a vet yes but she's not as prolific as well Nictis and myself frankly.

BB can certainly leave an impression though, but man you don't like to get out of this liminal space. (Also this post is before Cyric's in the above quotes, so its certainly not parroting Cyric)

Cyricubed said:
The last two games we've been implicitly aligned with each other and our votes have followed each other closely so seeing this when we're not makes me weirded out.

Cyric expressing some weirdness toward's 1k's actions are interesting, though I as the target of 1k's vote, didn't see it as abnormal personally.

Tykan · Nov 24, 2019

First off, sorry for being inactive yesterday. I was keeping up with the thread but was incredibly demotivated to do stuff. Plus a tiny bit of rl came in.

Which kinda adds in to the demotivation is for me the feeling that there wasn't much progress this Day 2. It almost feels as if nothing really happened in the last days. I mean, right now large parts of the discussion are again shades on Nictis, Meso and Byzantine. But with the same recycled arguments and nothing really new. Maybe my feeling's wrong here, I'm gonna reread Day 2 now with a bit more attention and hope to find something interesting.

Cause right now my only real suspicion is still on Nani from Day 1. Which is mostly gut read and incredibly unfair to argue against.

ComiTurtle · Nov 24, 2019

Okay, I really need to pass-out, so I'm going to jump forward a bit before I fall asleep on my keyboard.

InterstellarHobo said:
I would guess the Technician is a Tracker of some stripe.

Yes... I was trying to see if anyone would claim jailed if I brought up the role trying to get town cred for "not being the killer." Technicians in star Wars TTRPGs are generally the droid and computer characters that works with watcher/tracker fairly well. But like you also don't want to suggest to scum that they may have killed an information role cause generally there are not many especially with the game size.

Nictis said:
@ComiTurtle I can't tell if this is an uncharitable read or not. Meso's Day 1 Statistics posting, claiming to not be in a Quick Topic second post, unprompted claiming Vanilla Town, and first post of Day 2 asking everyone if anything happened to them in the night. The followups of claiming not to expect people to tell the truth about that stuff... It kinda feels like he's trying to get info to me.

Not entirely sure why you're soloing me for the read but I never really dived into the statistics posting from Meso, as I said yesterday statistics are not going to be helpful, the vanilla claim honestly I continue to dislike but frankly it didn't seem like a scum play to me, not good practice of course, but the way they handled it felt kinda like a genuine townie being concerned with making a mistake after it was pointed out to them... honestly I should go back and check something with that post in particular though.

mesonoxian said:
Now I'm an expendable VT.

Okay, not nearly as positive for them as I remembered it on reread. The actions surrounding it do feel genuine but in memory, it felt like a mistake that scum wouldn't do giving up Storm Trooper= Vanilla... but there is no mention of stormtrooper there at all. The logistics of the vote at the end of day 1 did appearred to me like scum didn't have a strong opinion to me which is a positive for Meso, however, yes their posts involving asking for more people to say if they got nil-responses in their night actions... is a big demerit towards them. I don't really rate them saying their not in a QT as a positive or negative for them though.

Tykan said:
First off, sorry for being inactive yesterday. I was keeping up with the thread but was incredibly demotivated to do stuff. Plus a tiny bit of rl came in.

Which kinda adds in to the demotivation is for me the feeling that there wasn't much progress this Day 2. It almost feels as if nothing really happened in the last days. I mean, right now large parts of the discussion are again shades on Nictis, Meso and Byzantine. But with the same recycled arguments and nothing really new. Maybe my feeling's wrong here, I'm gonna reread Day 2 now with a bit more attention and hope to find something interesting.

Cause right now my only real suspicion is still on Nani from Day 1. Which is mostly gut read and incredibly unfair to argue against.

Wasn't there some suspicions on me Tykan? I read some of your Day 1 posts as that personally were those ghosts or why are such sentiments gone?

Also Nani isn't a poor choice for suspicions, I can see it as a possibility, but I'm literally degenerating into full ramble mode and my reads and sentances become fuzzy and are likely filled with bleed that I am going to hate myself for when I awaken.

For now though, Meso is more suspect to me then at day start.

[X] Lynch Mesonoxian

should be back before day end.

Tykan · Nov 24, 2019

ComiTurtle said:
Wasn't there some suspicions on me Tykan? I read some of your Day 1 posts as that personally were those ghosts or why are such sentiments gone?

Also Nani isn't a poor choice for suspicions, I can see it as a possibility, but I'm literally degenerating into full ramble mode and my reads and sentances become fuzzy and are likely filled with bleed that I am going to hate myself for when I awaken.

Not really IIRC. I had you in the "bad" part of neutral. Which was reserved for people who didn't post enough (including myself) but nothing really serious. Wait, I remember what you are talking about, the questionnaire thingy with Rosen. That was mostly the culmination of what felt like your posts till then mostly getting ignored/not interacfted with by almost everyone and the discussion about LDJ's answers.
It wasn't really suspicion on your behaviour but more of a suspicion by association I guess. Which was at that moment with Rosen... Yeah, that theory's debunked by now.

InterstellarHobo · Nov 24, 2019

I'm going to try to collect all relevant Nictis posts here. I don't really have meaningful responses to much, sadly.
I'll make a second post, sans quotes, for stuff I'd like Nictis to respond to. Save them a bit of reading.

EDIT: on completion, this seems to have ended up high effort, low results. I have only a little bit of value to add.

Nictis said:
Hello everyone, just popping in to say that I am making a timeline of events in Day 1 and am about halfway done. Mostly becuase the Hobo timeline bugged me.

Also wanted to say that I am in an unnaturally bad mood, I'll try to keep it out of the game but as Happerry and Pawn know it's probably going to bleed through anyways. Sorry in advance.

Should be back to my laptop in about eight hours, will try to keep up with Day 2 stuff on my phone in the meanwhile.

Yeah sorry again bout that.

Nictis said:
Alright. Time to build a timeline.

Slight color coding included. Purple is personal note, Red is wagon level, Green is time or page gaps.

Day 1 Starts. Page 4.
1K makes a near immediate comment about not being aligned with Cyricubed.
Hobo claims that Byzantine scumslipped in the pre-game based on a jokepost and Stormtroopers being armed.
-Broken Base (My Slot) lightly pushes for more info on this.
-Broken Base (BB) then states that Hobo and Byzantine are unlikely to be aligned scum.
ComiTurtle (Comi) memevotes Dawiusz [1] and casts doubt on BB.
-BB explains thought in response and questions Hobo on the lack of vote.
-Hobo votes Byzantine. [1]
Tykan memevotes Meso. [1]
1K gives thoughts on the last game.
Byzantine claims to not be Scum or in a Quick Topic. (Not!Scum=/=Town)
Dawiusz (Daw) memevotes Comi. [1]
Nanimani (Nani) memevotes Cyricubed. [1]

Page 5.
Daw lightly suspects Byzantine's response to scumslip mention. (Unlikely to be allied, potentially a light case of shading?)
-Byzantine explains intended tone.
-BB casts doubt by saying that the tone didn't read like that. (Noting mostly because people tried to tie BB to Byzantine, need to see what's with that.)
-BB then votes Byzantine [2] for what is claimed to be tone but feels like disengaging. (Why you gotta do the suspicious things BB? This pressure feels bad to me T.T)
Rosen enters with another case of RQS.
Daw presses X to doubt Byzantine and claims Hobo as probably Town. Also expresses concern of getting hammered.
BB responds to Rosen's questions by giving a decent answer, an explanation for the lack of answer, and info on how she plays as scum. (If I had replaced Daw instead this would probably be who I would vote)
BB questions Daw on the lack of vote.
-Rosen claims to be watching Daw and the conversation.
BB pushes Tykan to flesh out their memevote on Meso. (I don't get this one)
Tykan responds to Rosen and unvotes Meso from BB comment. [0]
Daw explains basic new player vote conservativeness. Doesn't want to vote too early basically.
-BB and Daw butt heads over game ideology. I'm mostly going to ignore this from here on out to save space. (I will say that I personally agree with both sides here. Wagons form pressure and gather reactions, but sometimes the subtler touch is better)
1K and Byzantine give serious answers to Rosen's question.
Daw unvotes Comi. [0]
Byzantine votes Daw for shading them. [2] (I think this is where people decided that BB and Byzantine were connected, but it just looks like Byzantine piggybacking off of a line by BB that was prefaced with "I'm not sure that this is scummy")

Page 6.
(Post 127) BB pushes on Daw for playstyle. (I'm unsure if this is a matter of ideology or not. She's not here so I can't exactly ask. I can start to see why people were linking BB and Byzantine though.)
Hobo memevotes Rosen [1] and answers questions questionably.
LDJ and Comi respond to Rosen's questions shortly.
-Rosen pushes LDJ for answers, gets a response from LDJ explaining the answers, and immediately votes LDJ. (For what is frankly bullshit.) [1]
-1K calls Rosen on the bullshit and compares the LDJ answer to the BB answer. Rosen responds by claiming BB as his biggest Town read and LDJ as his biggest Scum Read.

Page 7.
Byzantine remarks that 1K is putting an odd amount of effort into defending LDJ. (NAI I say)
-Rosen meanwhile is making a complete mockery of himself from last game.
-LDJ gives IRL explanation for short answer. (Combination of a lack of interest in the questions, and not having a proper keyboard. I sympathize)

Page 8.
Nani responds to Rosen's questions while explicitly calling it nice as a fun question rather than a game move.
Byzantine questions the likelihood of a Gunsmith (Probably doesn't mean much, noting in case if I see more of this later)
Byzantine mentions that Nictis controlled the conversations last game and was scum... And hints that the lurkers should get more attention.
Rosen questions Nani for thoughts
Meso and QT give explanations for lack of activity and an intent to post more later.

Page 9.
BB asks 1K about reads on BB and Rosen, also states null to slight town read on LDJ (Matches my own thoughts at this point)
1K acknowledges bias towards/against Town Leader types, Rosen nitpicks 1K over bias ideology (is that even a thing? Not sure how else to phrase it)
-Rosen votes unvotes LDJ [0] and votes 1K [1] for letting her bias influence her reads. (Gotta say, I didn't see this when I voted Rosen Day 1. It's not making me regret it though.)
BB is townreading Rosen and not reading 1K. Seems to imply that she knows 1K's scumrange. (I am curious about this, since 1K's only scum game had her acting basically the same and fooled me completely)

Page 10.
For the list's and my own sake, I'm going to ignore the argument between 1K and Rosen in this. Some people comment in defense of 1K, Rosen continues to try and impress his view of things on the thread. Most of the page is wasted on this.
BB unvotes Byzantine [0] and pressure votes Daw [3]
Tykan and Hobo question Rosen for a Comi read and question the LDJ read from Rosen's response.

Page 11.
BB is paranoid about 1K.
Hobo unvotes Rosen [0] and votes Byzantine [1] because " I still think Byzantine has the best odds of being scum. " (Seems to be for the pre-game scumslip?) Also questions BB on Daw vote.
-BB provides quote and explanation.
BB is still paranoid about 1K and asks others to help go over her.
-Rosen responds by explaining that he's suspicious of 1K for not having a serious scum read on BB. Also that if 1K flips as scum to pressure LDJ. (Rosen seems to have forgotten 1K defending other players in every other game.)
Byzantine is lightly townreading Hobo and scumreading Daw.
BB likes Byzantine read post
Hobo suspects Byzantine (Slip) then BB (Distancing from Hobo with very quick switch to Daw... Many pages and a full day later) then Daw (general thread suspicion?) followed by Rosen (Bad behavior, but identical so not really suspicious to Hobo)

Huh, thought I was on Page 14. That might have been when I got distracted just reading the thread and then fell asleep though.

That's kinda annoying. Will mention that for any other Rosen stuff, the only other thing I had really seen during Day 1 from him was him calling our basic courtesy towards new players stupid. For reasons I don't have time to explain at the moment (Will be explaining post game anyways, since Rosen doesn't seem to keep reading after dying) I disagree, and decided that if they didn't care for the new player courtesy I wouldn't bother extending the 'Don't lynch repeatedly' courtesy. Rosen doing the exact same shit after claiming that he would stop doing it because it gets him lynched is going to get him lynched if we're not extending the courtesies of 'This is just how he plays' and 'We lynched him last game.'

Sorry, when rereading Rosen has gotten even more aggravating to me. I do not regret lynching him.

This is super useful. I can confirm that this accurately portrays my actions and correctly guesses my motivations, and it appears to accurately portray all the relevant content for those pages. Can't comment on other's motivations.

Nictis said:
So I'm just kinda flipping through the pages, and I'm having a bit of an issue with Hobo. He says that his main suspects are me and Byzantine, but that seems to have gone up in smoke as far as I can tell Day 2. There doesn't seem to be any progression on that, he just starts pressuring Nani and joins Byzantine in pressuring QT. He said that he wouldn't lynch Meso or Rosen Day 1, but then votes both of them. I'm still not entirely sure why Hobo was voting me to begin with, but apparently it doesn't matter anymore?

Something about Hobo is bugging me.

Already responded to this. Included tho, because relevant, and the start of a pattern.

POSTS 864-885
Not bothering to quote them- it's debating with me about whether knowing who got roleblocked is bad for town, and some meming. I don't think these are relevant?

Nictis said:
I'm not sure if I'm suspicious of Meso or not. Did an ISO, their latest post doesn't seem to be part of a trend except for claiming VT Day 1.

I'm conflicted. It feels new, but it also feels like Meso was already told why that would be a bad idea. Thoughts?

Also the beginning of a trend.

Nictis said:
Hmm.

[x] Lynch Interstellar Hobo

Nictis said:
So I'm just kinda flipping through the pages, and I'm having a bit of an issue with Hobo. He says that his main suspects are me and Byzantine, but that seems to have gone up in smoke as far as I can tell Day 2. There doesn't seem to be any progression on that, he just starts pressuring Nani and joins Byzantine in pressuring QT. He said that he wouldn't lynch Meso or Rosen Day 1, but then votes both of them. I'm still not entirely sure why Hobo was voting me to begin with, but apparently it doesn't matter anymore?

Something about Hobo is bugging me.

Nictis said:
You've seen me get people lynched, but you think that this is me railroading someone?

Take a look at Hobo for me, what happened to his read on you? What happened to his read on me? Why did he decide to switch from voting me to voting Meso after saying that he didn't want to lynch either Meso or Rosen? He said that as he switched over too.

This isn't me locking in a lynch, this is a light questioning of some stuff that seems off.

Again, already responded to these, but it's hard to argue they aren't relevant. I'll include a bit more in the follow up post.

Nictis said:
Anyways, am tired and will be busy tomorrow. Hobo is bugging me, but that comment from Byzantine is bugging me too now.

That wasn't an intent to lynch from me, not yet anyways. Hobo is just person I am most comfortable voting right now.

Nictis said:
...
I don't like this.

Byzantine had also already answered after.

Nictis said:
@ComiTurtle I can't tell if this is an uncharitable read or not. Meso's Day 1 Statistics posting, claiming to not be in a Quick Topic second post, unprompted claiming Vanilla Town, and first post of Day 2 asking everyone if anything happened to them in the night. The followups of claiming not to expect people to tell the truth about that stuff... It kinda feels like he's trying to get info to me.

Wish I had more time to engage the thread, but yeah.

@Byzantine Disregarding whatever I say unless if I present a power point presentation with it is bad. If you've seen me get people lynched, you should know that I am very good at making large posts to showcase why someone is scum, even if they're not. Look at what I say and consider it yourself instead of ignoring it. Also, this bugs me towards a Byzantine Scum thought, mainly because just flat dismissing things like that when you're not scumreading the person always twigs me.
@InterstellarHobo Ties can resolve in one of six ways. The first is that the first person to reach that point is lynched, the second is that it is a coinflip, the third is that it becomes akin to a Gladiator match. The Day gets extended and the first person to have a higher wagon between the two (All other votes are void) dies. The fourth is that someone entirely random gets lynched (I don't think this has ever been done here), the fifth is that both are lynched (Also fairly rare to prevent anyone from trying to game the system) and the last is that nobody is lynched.

I'll give you a bit of quick advice. If you think that both of the people being lynched are Town... Don't switch onto them. Wagons can swing around remarkably fast at the end of the Day, but they usually move onto another existing wagon. Vote who you suspect, and if you can then explain why you think that they're scum. Voting to lynch someone you openly think of as Town is never a good look, and you are on record for thinking that both of the people that you were voting were Town. This is also my main suspicion on Hobo.

I think that's all I got right now, I'm going to leave the thread for a while, might be back on tonight. To everyone else though... Post!

A minor scumread of Byzantine, for stating an intent to ignore Nictis' stuff. It's a reasonable callout.
Some advice for me. I'm quite unsure what prompted the lecture on ties though?

Nictis said:
...

I'm tired, so forgive me if this isn't very clear, but apparently I'm going to have to take the time to actually explain this.

To preface, you seem to be running under the assumption that a roleblocker would be scum. This is not the case. I am going to grant the benefit of the doubt and just assume that it is a misunderstanding on your end rather than TMI.

The first thing I want to explain is lying. Specifically, verifiable lies. Town most often doesn't want to lie about events, because that can cause issues later on either by the scum being able to shade them for having lied to cast doubt at a critical juncture, or when they die they can't clear up a misunderstanding to prevent a mislynch on Town. That's for issues down the line, in the more immediate term you've got other issues. For one, a member of the Town might reveal in order to call you out on your lie, usually leading to the lynch of the person who lied and often to the murder of the Town roleblocker. Alternatively, a Scum Roleblocker is incentivized to reveal in order to call you out on your lie, because that helps focus the Day's lynch on Town and solidifies their place as that role. If the roleblocker doesn't call it out then any future claim can be marred by having let someone else lie to everyone. Lynch all Liars is a thing.

The second thing I want to talk about is pointless bullshit. And yes, that is what I call it. Asking people to reveal info, but then saying that you expect them to lie, means that it is just pointless bullshit from your stated perspective. When you claim to not be in a Quicktopic but respond to people questioning why you would say that with "Well everyone is going to lie about that, right?" means that there was no point to it from your stated perspective. If everyone says the same thing, then it changes nothing. The thing is that not everyone is going to lie, or play along, and that calls attention towards those that don't. From the stated perspective of Town that thinks it's okay because it means nothing... It means nothing. From the perspective of scum, it can be an attempt at info digging.

The scum perspective. So at the start you claim not to be in a quicktopic, following a trend that shouldn't have been started in the first place. You get told that giving out excessive info is bad... and then you claim Vanilla Town. Maybe that's just a new player mistake, or it's an attempt to get others to reveal the same. Pointless bullshit, or trying to get role info. Then Day 2 you ask everyone if anything happened to them. That goes beyond volunteering your own info (And your own message confirms that nothing happened to you, meaning that yes it is the same as not getting a night PM) it goes into actively trying to figure out the setup.

Certain roles leave messages that players are usually willing to share. "I got roleblocked" "I got jailed" or "I was transported" for example. Scum aren't going to know what roles are in the game other than their own, I already explained how trying to figure out who wasn't blocked when the thread had been incredibly quiet without much drive is helping the scum find informative roles, but trying to get people to reveal what has happened to them is actively power hunting.

And again, if we take you at your word that you expected people to all just say "Nothing happened 'ere Cap!" then it's pointless bullshit. Realistically though, not everyone is going to say that. Refer back to the first point, Town don't want to be caught lying.

Also, do you just not see the discrepancy between your own posts and what you're accusing Byzantine of?

Nictis said:
I... What?

Okay, so I've been busy. I haven't been able to completely catch up, hence why my timeline is incomplete. What I remember is this:

Rosen was Townreading me.
Hobo and someone else thought they nailed the scumteam as BB(Me)/Byzantine/Rosen.
Meso had been claiming that Byzantine was scummy but refused to provide reasons or point at a previous post at the EoD because why the hell would he bother?
The three wagons were Myself, Byzantine, and you. I was tied with both of you and voted up Rosen instead of self preservation voting on either of you because I didn't see the issue between you two and while Byzantine was at least willing to say why he was voting you I didn't really get it.
The lynch ended at like, 7-4 or something.

What the heck are you remembering?
(And why were you suspecting me and Byzantine as a scumteam again?)

Nictis said:
Like, really. I don't know why anyone has been voting me this game. Hobo said it was for Early Day BB wagon activity... Of which there was none. And then later voted for me saying it was for the above quoted reasoning... There was no quoted reasoning that I could find. Cyricubed was voting me because my lynch would be informative? Not sure what he thought would be clearing up, it sounded like he thought that I might be scum with Meso because I disengaged from Meso. Nani was voting me just because he was voting Broken Base, and that just seemed to be because BB and Rosen were talkative.

Sorry, just wanted to complain about that real quick. I've got a lot of people saying that they suspect me this game but not giving me a whole lot of 'why'.

Nictis said:
Okay, so. Remember when you said that I was trying to get you lynched while Byzantine backed off? Both of us were voting InterstellarHobo. Remember when I asked you to explain why you thought Byzantine was scum? You told me to go read the thread because the arguments had already been made and it'd be obvious who the scum were in those interactions. If you are Town, I can only see that as you not bothering because you were so set in the idea that I was Byzantine's scumbuddy. I still don't know why you think that. Remember how Day 1, it was a three way tie between me, you, and Byzantine and I voted up Rosen? Remember how you talked about how I was shutting up one of the biggest talkers about the Byzantine/Nictis team? Remember how I didn't have time to followup when voting Rosen and offered to claim because I didn't have time?

Meso, excuse me for being rude, but pull your head out of your ass and consider the possibility of being wrong instead of letting your bias shape your memory of what has happened. I'm not saying don't consider me scum, I'm not saying don't consider Byzantine scum, I'm saying to take the moment and consider a potential world where you didn't nail most of the scum Day 1.

Or at the very least tell me why you seem to think that we're scum. The origin, not this constant twisting of events.

Nictis said:
Alright, to preface this. I have two things I want to say about this. The first is quite frankly thank you.

The second is that I am going to sound like an ass here.

All I was asking for was a quick pointer on where to look, the refusal to engage before was the most frustrating thing for me. That your original scumread on me amounted to "Had logged in when subbed out and Byzantine started pushing me" isn't the best for me to engage with.

What can I say here? That I wouldn't direct a new player to make a concerted lynch effort against you? It is kinda my thing, not to mention that I wasn't caught up with the thread and didn't have a damn clue as to what the gamestate was.

Anyways, I'm heading to bed. IRL shit got me in a bad mood after I saw your post, so sorry for being snappy. I'm just kinda split between gratitude and wanting to call bullshit atm.

Someone figure out what's up with Nani for me, I don't remember why people were questioning him but I don't remember it going anywhere.

I confess, I didn't dive in to this as hard as I should have. I don't enjoy reading people being angry, it stresses me out.
The bulk of these four posts is that Nictis is upset with Mesonoxian for not helping understand the scumread.
Also, contains plausible suspicions on Meso. This is a very, uselessly reductive summary, leaves out significant things that I'll hopefully cover separately.

TLDR on Nictis: I have no reason to scumread from D2 onwards. Their behaviour appears productive, and rather unlike last game's. I was not reading them all that strongly yesterday, and that has certainly not increased. (This could be them excersizing caution to dodge suspicion, but 'not acting suspicious' would be a damn silly reason to suspect someone)

TLDR on others: Mesonoxian is now more suspicious, and I'm going to look at him a bit before Byzantine.

Oshha · Nov 24, 2019

Okay, QT has responded so I'm nulling my vote. Now onto my new vote.

I was previous okay (well not okay, but I was willingly to accept it) with their reasoning for their 1k, but after their latest post, I don't know what their reasoning is anymore. However, I am no longer neutral on Nani as their latest post made me realise what I found off about their actions so far. They keep throwing shade at people, but they also don't give their stances or make any commitments. They just try to create suspicion by implying things and make ambiguous statements, both of which can leave them wiggle room to take things back or otherwise get them an out.

[X] Lynch Nanimani

Storm Trooper Mafia

Staying noided

Best Sidekick

Cosmic Vagrant

Staying noided

Staying noided

Staying noided

Staying noided

Cosmic Vagrant

Probably listening to music

Probably listening to music

Best Sidekick

Probably listening to music

Biribiri

Biribiri

Staying noided

Cosmic Vagrant