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Storm Trooper Mafia

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Looking at the tally, I would be okay with either a Nani or Meso lynch today with how they've been acting today.
 
Holy shit I am terrible at getting anything done.

Comments for @Nictis:
  • What did you consider to determine what to include in your summary? Asking mostly for usefulness sake, a little bit for better reads.
  • I do think Meso claiming VT is harmless wine, at least on it's own.
  • My vote on you was a combination of factors: First, the percieved scumbuddying w/Byzantine. Second, BB's reads of Dawiusz seemed ill founded to me. Third, I was ceding to Ossha's point about not lynching Byzantine D1. Between these, I felt there was legitimate (though weak) evidence that you were scum, which is I think fairly decent for D1.
 
ComiTurtle said:
See... this is the kind of post that makes me suspect Byz, BB's a vet yes but she's not as prolific as well Nictis and myself frankly. :V BB can certainly leave an impression though, but man you don't like to get out of this liminal space. (Also this post is before Cyric's in the above quotes, so its certainly not parroting Cyric)
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I should note I was pretty much quoting my memory of how Dragon Ball mafia went down, where BB used the fact that she didn't play like that as scum in previous games as her first shield. She was scum. You'll note that I have an oddly deep knowledge of a couple of the most recent games and the chatter around them, and basically nothing else besides some wiki skims. Good memory and learning fast can't quite make up for lack of experience, though, so I'm stuck in kind of a twilight zone. If I'd watched a few more games before joining I don't think I'd even have been able to convince people it really was my first game, at least until I made some really dumb mistake.

InterstellarHobo said:
  • I do think Meso claiming VT is harmless wine, at least on it's own.
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It isn't. The game you played last time was a low power one, so had a bunch of VT. From what I've heard power madness (high power) games where there are no VT at all are relatively common around here, which would make a VT claim a dead giveaway of scum. So town should avoid claiming it even if true, as scum may not want to take the risk and will choose a power role to fake claim that can be scrutinized. (See Cyric's claim last game where he chose something that just didn't work with Evenstar's power. He got damn lucky no one pushed that too hard.)
 
Byzantine said:
It isn't. The game you played last time was a low power one, so had a bunch of VT. From what I've heard power madness (high power) games where there are no VT at all are relatively common around here, which would make a VT claim a dead giveaway of scum. So town should avoid claiming it even if true, as scum may not want to take the risk and will choose a power role to fake claim that can be scrutinized. (See Cyric's claim last game where he chose something that just didn't work with Evenstar's power. He got damn lucky no one pushed that too hard.)
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Hadn't thought of that. Fair.
 
Ah, forgot this in the comments for Nictis!

Why did you explain ties to me??
Not that I mind, but... I'm not sure what prompted it?
 
InterstellarHobo said:
@Oshha can you give some quotes, to point us where to look?
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Well first of all, Nani is apparently voting to lynch 1K on the grounds that 1K didn't care if Rosen got lynched or not because of Rosen acting like an arse make them whilst ignoring 1K gave other valid reasons for wanting to vote Rosen, which lined up with the facts of day 1 (More people townreading Meso than Rosen, being needlessly aggressive over nothing, unfairly focusing on certain players when other people were doing the same things).
Nanimani said:
You know, I remember that "This person arguing against me's getting me real mad so fuck'em" from last game, when you were scum. It's not really a reason that indicates you as town.
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Then later posts had me bleieving that Nani was voting 1K over prior suspicions from day 1, but according to the below post, I was wrong and Nani is voting to lynch 1k over the fact that 1k didn't like Rosen acting like a git. They are also being evasive and refusing to outright state their stances.
Nanimani said:
It isn't, huh? Good to know.
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Then Nani uses the fact here that 1K voted for someone who flipped as town as justification for voting to lynch them despite the fact that Rosen was acting like scum and 1k backed up their lynch with valid reasoning that matched the facts of day 1.

Nanimani said:
It doesn't indicate you're scum, but it also doesn't indicate you're town.
So you know. The whole no reasoning at time of vote vote near the end on a townie is good enough for me.
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Here they are being evasive and refusing to give their views and reasoning.
Nanimani said:
You know what? I was actually kind of annoyed when I went to get the quote.
But considering this is what I got, yeah, that's fairly obtuse. You can see the line there if you're looking for it, but a cursory readthrough ain't gonna.
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Here they are throwing suspicious towards me over the fact that I pointed out that everyone had valid reasons to lynch Rosen as town and whilst trying to claim that Rosen's blatantly scummy behaviour wasn't actually scummy because they flipped town.
Nanimani said:
This reads like you're trying to create a chain of falsely lynching town to me.
Also, people's stated reasons all being legitimate does not mean that the play that lead there is definitely anti-town. All D1 and D2 and D3, etc lynches will have people going on about their town reasons for being on the wagon, even if they were wrong. Some'll be legitimate, some might not. That's just every game.
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Here I'm not sure what they doing it, but it is pointless evasive and doesn't actually do anything except imply something.
Nanimani said:
What a coincidence.
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Furthermore, Nani hasn't given their reads or outright said their reasoning. They have just been dancing about the point and evasively implying things. I don't like it as it looks like scum leaving room to cover their backsides when their target flips town. I also don't like how they are being extremely defensive of Rosen and using the fact that Rosen flipped town to go after other people on that basis alone.

I'm not outright reading Nani as scum and only have them as lean scum, but they are my strongest scum read at this point so I'm voting to lynch them.
 
PSA: going to bed soon-ish, work week resumes on the morrow.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by LostDeviljho on Nov 24, 2019 at 10:10 AM, finished with 174 posts and 8 votes.
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That's a tie. We should probably avoid a tie?
Not sure who to vote for as a tiebreaker though, I don't really have scumreads on either of them. (Or anyone, tbh. Not the most productive day phase for me.)
 
It took me a minute to realize you analyzed above the quote :<
This was very confusing for a while. Gonna reframe some stuff, because I think you misunderstood some things.

We will call this reasoning A:
Nanimani said:
You know, I remember that "This person arguing against me's getting me real mad so fuck'em" from last game, when you were scum. It's not really a reason that indicates you as town.
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We will call this reasoning B:
Nanimani said:
It [Angryvoting] doesn't indicate you're scum, but it also doesn't indicate you're town.
So you know. The whole no reasoning at time of vote vote near the end on a townie is good enough for me.
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Oshha said:
Here they are being evasive and refusing to give their views and reasoning.
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This is a mischaracterization. Nani had, at this point, given both reasoning A and B. 1K asked why reasoning B wasn't given in the first place. Nani's response is 'Well I was gonna say I did! but actually fair cop there'.

I believe Nanimani has, with reasonable clarity, stated reasoning B as their entire justification.
That reasoning is deeply flawed, but it has been provided.
 
InterstellarHobo said:
I believe Nanimani has, with reasonable clarity, stated reasoning B as their entire justification.
That reasoning is deeply flawed, but it has been provided.
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No, no I get that. I thought Nani had different reasoning (being suspicious over 1k's day one activity), but I don't get that 'reasoning B' as you call it is good reasoning to vote to lynch 1k so I'm counting that as a mark against Nani. Combined with how they are being evasive and more implying things than outright stating them, Nani is currently my highest scum read even if I'm not outright reading them as scum and therefore I'm voting them.

That said, while I'm not getting them as strongly as others apparently are, I am getting some scum vibes from Meso so I am okay with a Meso lynch through those could easily be the result of inexperience rather than being scum.
 
I'm getting very tired. I want ot present one last bit of analysis, on what I feel are two of the more telling meso posts.
After that, I need to vote, then it's bed.

First, this. This is a compelling explanation of why Meso is voting as they are.
mesonoxian said:
@Nictis
Take two.

Broken Base was making a push against Dawiusz. Dawiusz had a very weak argument that Byzantine was scum they were pushing very hard. Looking back BB had initially voted with Dawiusz against Byzantine on some pretty weak grounds, then switched to pushing against Dawiusz. When I checked into the game, that lynch was ahead. I didn't think that was good because I read Dawiusz as very towny, and this being my first hammer game I was nervous we would have a mislynch watching the votes pile up. So I argued they weren't and I threw in the possibility that Broken Base and Byzantine were a team, with BB's initial vote being a distancing maneuver and her push against Dawiusz being their to get rid of a threat and take pressure off her scum buddy. I didn't offer nor have any evidence, nor claim to have any, I just wanted to put forward the idea because guessing at these things is the whole game.

Rosen argued this was too obvious a plot for BB to engage in and we went back and forth for a bit about that. Broken Base's response seemed weirdly intense for what had been an off the cuff guess which I admitted I had no further evidence for. So I went from thinking "this is probably nothing" to lending the thought as bit more credence, just because BB seemed sort of threatened by it. I figured that might mean she was scum, but it would be too lucky to get two scum picked out on Day 1.

Then Byzantine came up with a push I thought was really scummy (in the kindest possible sense ;) ). Against me, worst of all! Basically making a claim that I had attempted some sort of statistics based hit against Broken Base and Byzantine and which seemed to distort several elements of my actual argument to make them seem substantially less credible and more scummy and kept at it when I corrected them. So that made me further suspect them as scum. Then, looking back a bit, you had logged on about thirty minutes or so before that push started. Up until this point, Byzantine had posted a lot, but there weren't a lot of narratives or pushes or anything. So I look at this and the scenario I think is "experienced scum player replaced by a new experienced scum player, inexperienced scum player gets new directives".

It was just too nice a coincidence to pass up. Then I check in again and see these:

Which I took as an attempt to get another push started and this:

which again, seemed like laying the framework for another push after I escaped the last one Byzantine set up by the skin of my teeth.

So it confirmed my already paranoid outlook that you guys were plotting against me. Which is about where we came in.

And my head feels like it is full of bees, so I am going to go get a drink. I hope this helps clarify my position.
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On the other hand, we have this post.
mesonoxian said:
Let me ask you this: I still think Nictis and Byzantine are scum. What are the chances I would still be pushing for them if I was scum? If I were scum, I'd have 9 or 10 targets to pick from and would probably be coordinating with my fellows to build up a case. As it is, I am coming close to getting lynched because I am sticking to my guns on my reads.
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This is a... very strange argument. I don't know what to make of it. It is a little compelling though- this is very odd behaviour for scum, unless meso is trying to buddy up to me?
Except I've mellowed on the Nictis/Byz scum theory. It's still plausible, but no new evidence has come up.

mesonoxian said:
And I do think that is why @Nictis is still trying to get me lynched. He tagged a low post player and asked them to confirm whether his "read was bad" which was basically a list of reasons to lynch me. He made a big deal about "meaningless bullshit" when I asked if anybody else got a "nothing happened" PM. (Which nobody else had mentioned yet and which I doubt the scum received since they are active at night.)


I might be wrong about who the scum team are, but they are by far my strongest reads.
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And here, Nictis debunked the 'tryin to get this kid ded' thoery already. And for the latter part, I am willing to bet that scum do in fact get such a PM.

I think it's more likely than not Meso is town, fixated on BZ/Nictis, and flailing a bit under pressure.
 
Ugh I can't communicate for shit while sleepy. EBWOP
This is a... very strange argument. I don't know what to make of it. It is a little compelling though- this is very odd behaviour for scum, unless meso is trying to buddy up to me?
Except I've visibly mellowed on the Nictis/Byz scum theory. It's still plausible, but no new evidence has come up. Pursuing this would be an odd way to buddy up.


...And here, Nictis debunked the 'tryin to get this kid ded' thoery already. And for the latter part, I am willing to bet that at least one scum does in fact get such a PM. It's still an odd argument for scum to try.

I think it's more likely than not Meso is town, fixated on BZ/Nictis, and flailing a bit under pressure.
 
InterstellarHobo said:
I think it's more likely than not Meso is town, fixated on BZ/Nictis, and flailing a bit under pressure.
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That was my initial read earlier in the day, but he's just... so obsessive over it it feels really weird and scummy.

I wouldn't oppose a Nani lynch either, tbh. Their behavior has been a bit off, both with the targets and with their own switching - their explanation of it was okay, but it seems really easily abused by scum.
 
Ugh, I'm not entirely happy about lnching someone for bad reasoning on a vote that hasn't gone through yet.
I guess they've also had not much useful activity.

Fuckit. Vote's staying.
 
@Nanimani Since we got less than two hours and you just took the lead, I feel you should get a curtsy ping.
 
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