Storm Trooper Mafia

[CTRosen]

Other than that, I'm going to recommend a bit of both of BB and QT's advice. Don't intentionally piss people off for the advantage or as a playstyle (I am looking at Rosen here, to be clear), don't get pulled into pointless arguments, and when you are arguing, make sure there's an actual point to what you're saying. When you've established that it's a case of your word against mine, leave it at that. Continuing to insist that I am contradicting myself, lying, etc only makes it seem like it's still up for debate. If you've got dirt from earlier to help establish the scumminess of the player, it's worth raising, but if you don't then don't try to say that you do.

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To be fair the point of that play style is to generate as much early game conversation as possible. Everyone is just getting pissed off at it because it's incredibly unorthodox compared to what they're used to (EDIT: I should note that I get caught up in the game every now and then as well, so when people get mad at me I also sometimes get mad as a result).

No, I probably won't stop doing it, if only because it works for its intended purpose..

 

[QTesseract]

To be fair the point of that play style is to generate as much early game conversation as possible. Everyone is just getting pissed off at it because it's incredibly unorthodox compared to what they're used to (EDIT: I should note that I get caught up in the game every now and then as well, so when people get mad at me I also sometimes get mad as a result).

No, I probably won't stop doing it, if only because it works for its intended purpose..

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[X] Lynch -Rosen

 

[Nictis]

People get mad because you are repeatedly hammering the same points beyond when they've been clarified, nitpicking at issues that don't exist, and ultimately making a whole lot of nothing.

What was the point of how you were aggravating 1K?

And for me specifically lynching you and calling it scummy... You were contradicting previous expectations you've had as Town, repeating behavior that you have said you would change, and were complaining about the basic courtesy of letting newer players play the game. I would not have been surprised to see you flip as scum, because it was a bad imitation of Town Behavior that you weren't supposed to be doing anymore.

 

[CTRosen]

People get mad because you are repeatedly hammering the same points beyond when they've been clarified, nitpicking at issues that don't exist, and ultimately making a whole lot of nothing.

What was the point of how you were aggravating 1K?

And for me specifically lynching you and calling it scummy... You were contradicting previous expectations you've had as Town, repeating behavior that you have said you would change, and were complaining about the basic courtesy of letting newer players play the game. I would not have been surprised to see you flip as scum, because it was a bad imitation of Town Behavior that you weren't supposed to be doing anymore.

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Who's to say it was actually nothing though? Do you say it's nothing because that's what you perceive it to be? Do you think about the other perspectives that could go into such a method of posting? Essentially what you're saying is "what Rosen is doing is a whole lot of nothing because I perceive it to be a whole lot of nothing." To ignore all the things I say under the veil of "he's posting for the sake of creating chaos and that's anti-Town, so we shouldn't even bother to listen to what he has to say" is completely ignorant to the varying perspectives that the game offers. At that point it's essentially just blocking my own perspective out of the game because what I'm doing is apparently breaking some kind of taboo here or something like that. Something only becomes invalid when it's perceived as such. The same rings true here.

In terms of other people (you're mentioning 1K specifically but I imagine it will happen with other people in the future), let it be known that angering people isn't a goal of mine, however it also isn't nearly my biggest concern when I'm playing. I know I'll sound like an ass saying this, but I understand that my play style is a lot rougher than many are accustomed to, but if you're going to let that get to your head, then that's kind of your own fault, and I can't really feel all that sorry for it. Mafia is emotionally taxing at its core, so from my perspective that's just something you have to be prepared for.

As for the stuff I bolded...I never said I would change it though? If you're referring to the post-game of GoC, I had explicitly stated that I should change it because I thought the way I got lynched was really stupid. That's a far cry from actually following through with that, which frankly I had no intention of doing.

And in regard to this game being a "bad imitation," just take my word for it that it's practically impossible to carry this play style in the same exact manner across games. Tried it...doesn't work.

 

[1KBestK]

I know I'll sound like an ass saying this, but I understand that my play style is a lot rougher than many are accustomed to, but if you're going to let that get to your head, then that's kind of your own fault, and I can't really feel all that sorry for it.

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'It's your fault you're angry' is a pretty dumb take, and yes, it does make you sound like that. You make the choice of how aggressively you go after people. You choose the language you use, and saying you're just 'rougher' does not excuse you. Mafia is a taxing game, yes, but at this point this is knowingly and intentionally aggrivating that factor. That's not going to work as an excuse.

 

[CTRosen]

'It's your fault you're angry' is a pretty dumb take, and yes, it does make you sound like that. You make the choice of how aggressively you go after people. You choose the language you use, and saying you're just 'rougher' does not excuse you. Mafia is a taxing game, yes, but at this point this is knowingly and intentionally aggrivating that factor. That's not going to work as an excuse.

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Okay well I'm sorry for just being aggressive?

Frankly I'm not here to hold peoples' hands but I'll just leave it at that.

 

[1KBestK]

Okay well I'm sorry for just being aggressive?

Frankly I'm not here to hold peoples' hands but I'll just leave it at that.

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I'm not saying you have to 'hold people's hands,' I'm telling you to have some sense of empathy for your fellow players and to stop angering people intentionally - because that is what you're doing at this point. You aren't dumb. You know the effect of your actions on others. You acknowledge it yourself. A snide 'well I'm sorry' and 'I'm not going to hold your hand' is exactly proving my point. You could have chosen to be more polite in getting across how you feel, but you've chosen to be passive aggressive about it, as you often do, and that is absolutely something you can control, even if you are playing more 'aggressively.' You can't simultaneously say it's everyone else's fault for getting angry and simultaneously say shit like this:

(EDIT: I should note that I get caught up in the game every now and then as well, so when people get mad at me I also sometimes get mad as a result).

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Like, you can be active without angering people. I know because I've done it. You can probably be 'aggressive' in a way that doesn't make other players angry and stressed. But you're basically saying that you don't give a shit about any of that, with the sole exception being yourself.

 

[InterstellarHobo]

So I'm pretty new, and likely wrong.

The reasons I think your play is bad, and that I voted to lynch you, are the following:
First , personal distaste. I don't like angry shouting at all, and I find it very difficult to force myself to read. Your wild accusations over nothing much are almost guaranteed to generate angry shouting. (I understand you think this is a plus)

Second, I don't see how you would act any differently as scum, and I don't see how you would be any less effective at scum goals while acting this way.
Normally, scum trying to act town has to at least benefit town somewhat in the process- but if we accept 'oh it's just -Rosen being -Rosen' then you have carte blanche to try and mislynch with ill-thought out arguments.

I consider bad arguments to be scummy. They make genuine information harder to find, and even if your posts generate conversation, they don't seem to generate informative conversation. They generate angry shouting.
I'm not going to stop scumreading terrible pushes unless there's a quite compelling argument to.

As an aside, I intend to sit out and observe next game, so we won't be clashing there at least.

 

[Nictis]

full disclosure i wont do the crazy shit i did this game again but i will stand by that it did what i wanted it to do

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I'm ready for this game because I actually plan on playing by the book this time lol
Or at least not like how I did last game lol

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Pretty sure I remember you mentioning this in one of the other threads as well. I noticed at the time that you said this.

As for it being nothing or not... What do you get out of irritating people over word choice? 1K admits to a bias that she is correcting for... And you spend nearly a page ignoring her and trying to push a lynch narrative because she's playing bad and is letting her paranoia take the reins, when she is explicitly not doing that.

As for you not intending to piss people off... That was the stated purpose for why you kept pressuring me Day 1 in your first game. You were intentionally making something out of nothing to see if I get angry in a scummy way. This has been your MO since you came here, I accepted it when it was against me and in the second game because I could see a greater reason for it. An actual goal. I start lynching you when I don't, or when it starts getting hypocritical.

I am not saying that everyone should ignore you because you're being anti-Town. I am saying that you're being a dick for no point fairly often, are justifying it to yourself as "Creating discussion," and that people are going to lynch you when you aren't seen as acting in Town's interest.

 

[Oshha]

My problems with Rosen's play is that they deliberately antagonist people over meaningless stuff. Being aggressive is fine, but being a dick isn't regardless of being aggressive or not. Mafia is a social game and needless aggression is bad because it flames tensions, upsets people and drives people to quit because they don't want to deal with another player being a dick.

Furthermore, I disagree that generating early game discussion is inherently useful to town. I believe generating meaningless early game discussion (which what Rosen does as they generate discussions for the sake of it) is bad for town and good for scum. This is town doesn't get anything out of it (meaningless information doesn't help us find scum), it is more work for town to dig through to find scum (posts with meaningless information still need to be looked at to find they got nothing of use and distracting town with meaningless arguments) and makes it easier for scum to hide (more posts in the thread for town to look through to figure out who is scum and providing meaningless arguments to distract town).

I don't have a problem with Rosen having an aggressive playstyle. I do have a problem with Rosen being a dick to other players because that is extremely bad for the social element of the game and after thinking about it after lynching Rosen this game, I feel that being deliberately rude and uncaring for the feelings of other players is worse than being scum (being scum is just a role, being a dick is a choice) so I'll vote for a town player who is being a dick over a scum player who isn't being a dick. I also don't like how Rosen justifies themselves being a dick as "having a rougher play style" or "generating discussion" because neither of those are things which justify their behaviour as neither are inherently useful for town. The worst part for me is how they are blaming their victim by claiming it isn't their fault that the people they are deliberately trying to piss off get angry at them. That is worse than being scum as far as I am concerned.

Frankly, Rosen needs to look at the town they are in when figuring out how to play as town. However mafia worked back where they came from, their playstyle is scummy not town here. Rosen says that is just their playstyle and we should accept it, but why should we? From anyone else,it would be considered solid scum and when Rosen was up for the lynch, the main arguments in Rosen's favour was that they had acted like scum as town in the past. I don't consider that acceptable reason to consider that behaviour town. Scum behaviour shouldn't be treated non-scummy let alone town behaviour just because

If we just accept Rosen is going to act like scum, then what are going to do when they actually are scum? Do we just not lynch Rosen because they like to act like scum as town and don't want to fit in with the new town that they have moved? I say if Rosen acts like scum, they get lynched for acting like scum because why should we let scum behaviour get treated as acceptable.

 

[Terrabrand]

So just gonna shill the next game here; behold