Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.

[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure = Focuses on building infrastructure.

If the provinces go diplo, we focus down the temples. If they go infrastructure, we can venerate and diplo mission to get up our culture and stab, as well as use our diplo hero to get us temp diplo, make friends, and expand in the lowlands. These aren't revolutionary ideas but they're good, and they're a necessary set-up before we can propel ourselves into headlong expansion or tech boost. Plus we can expand our economy, build boats, study, or explore with one or two of our spare actions. Main expanding economy seems like a pretty good action tbh. Adds permanent econ, gives us a sliver of temporary econ, and gives innovation chance.

Also we could use our huge stack of econ for Sacred forests or something too. Just get like 2 or 3 extra sacred forests, as they don't consume any resources except for temporary econ.

Also holy shit the heavy-duty religious reforms are going to tank our permanent stats. Say goodbye to having nice, high permanent diplo lol.

Lukepop said:

[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.

[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure = Focuses on building infrastructure.

If the provinces go diplo, we focus down the temples. If they go infrastructure, we can venerate and diplo mission to get up our culture and stab, as well as use our diplo hero to get us temp diplo, make friends, and expand in the lowlands. These aren't revolutionary ideas but they're good, and they're a necessary set-up before we can propel ourselves into headlong expansion or tech boost. Plus we can expand our economy, build boats, study, or explore with one or two of our spare actions. Main expanding economy seems like a pretty good action tbh. Adds permanent econ, gives us a sliver of temporary econ, and gives innovation chance.

Also we could use our huge stack of econ for Sacred forests or something too. Just get like 2 or 3 extra sacred forests, as they don't consume any resources except for temporary econ.

Also holy shit the heavy-duty religious reforms are going to tank our permanent stats. Say goodbye to having nice, high permanent diplo lol.

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I fully suspect that these changes will bring about new actions/effects that have the potential to mitigate the worst of these.

[] [SEC/MAIN] Build Roads = (Target) S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Road, M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Road, -Possible Targets: Greenbay (0/6), Rockbay (0/1), Sunrise Bay (0/1), North Coast Plains (0/6), Upriver Plains (0/3), Sunrise Plains (0/1), Lowland Conflux (0/1), Northern Green River (0/6), Southern Green River (0/6),

So, just as an FYI, Oshha forgot to put it in but we have a roads action now
@Killer_Whale

Raichu1972 said:

[] [SEC/MAIN] Build Roads = (Target) S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Road, M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Road, -Possible Targets: Greenbay (0/6), Rockbay (0/1), Sunrise Bay (0/1), North Coast Plains (0/6), Upriver Plains (0/3), Sunrise Plains (0/1), Lowland Conflux (0/1), Northern Green River (0/6), Southern Green River (0/6),

So, just as an FYI, Oshha forgot to put it in but we have a roads action now
@Killer_Whale

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You know... that infrastructure policy is looking better by the minute.

UlseDovThur said:

You know... that infrastructure policy is looking better by the minute.

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yeah, we have a crap-ton of roads to do. Or just infrastructure in general.

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.

[X] [Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.

[X] [Policy] Defensive = Takes defensive martial actions.
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.
[X] [Policy] Exploration = Focuses on exploring areas.

Still operating on the rationale that infrastructure and mega-projection actions are significantly easier to be voted for than either diplomacy or exploration.

Raichu1972 said:

[] [SEC/MAIN] Build Roads = (Target) S: -2 Temp Econ, +1 Road, M: -4 Temp Econ, +2 Road, -Possible Targets: Greenbay (0/6), Rockbay (0/1), Sunrise Bay (0/1), North Coast Plains (0/6), Upriver Plains (0/3), Sunrise Plains (0/1), Lowland Conflux (0/1), Northern Green River (0/6), Southern Green River (0/6),

So, just as an FYI, Oshha forgot to put it in but we have a roads action now
@Killer_Whale

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Sweet heavenly Jesus this is worse than PoC holy shit. Yeah, very much let's avoid expanding as much as possible until we've got this sorted out.

It's not "worse than PoC", because we literally just got that action.

Lukepop said:

It's not "worse than PoC", because we literally just got that action.

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I didn't mean "We're as negligent as PoC", just "We've got less road coverage than PoC." In PoC, we had 22% road coverage. Here, we have 0% road coverage. That makes us worse than PoC, though because we only just got the action rather than because of negligence.

Andres110 said:

I didn't mean "We're as negligent as PoC", just "We've got less road coverage than PoC." In PoC, we had 22% road coverage. Here, we have 0% road coverage. That makes us worse than PoC, though because we only just got the action rather than because of negligence.

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To be fair, we literally have 100% trail coverage right now; we're just stupidly large and literally just got the action unlocked.

Where should we build our first roads to, the north or the south? The south is a cultural and religious flashpoint, and building roads will allow us to better maintain and spread our culture in the region. On the other hand, the north is adjacent to nomads, specifically nomads whom we have not been engaging in diplomacy with, so building roads to speed up troop and supply movements could be vital.

Raichu1972 said:

To be fair, we literally have 100% trail coverage right now; we're just stupidly large and literally just got the action unlocked.

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This. I'm not saying to not do/worry about infrastructure but it's nothing to fear monger over. We'll do it when we do it.

Ignore roads, settle around rivers and build better boats.

Random Member said:

Ignore roads, settle around rivers and build better boats.

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Not a good idea. River travel is good but it's no substitute for a proper road network. This was established in PoC.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying we ignore boats either, just that we shouldn't ignore roads. Roads and boats both provide valuable contributions to travel and connectivity.

EDIT 2: Another thing to note is that boats require wood, and without the wood management of the Ymaryn, overlogging will become a problem if we go overboard with boats and other wood-heavy projects.

Andres110 said:

I didn't mean "We're as negligent as PoC", just "We've got less road coverage than PoC." In PoC, we had 22% road coverage. Here, we have 0% road coverage. That makes us worse than PoC, though because we only just got the action rather than because of negligence.

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You already have trails/dirt paths at 100% coverage and automatically constructed with every settlement. So while you will have 0% Tier 2 Roads, you do have 100% Tier 1 Roads.

Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 441 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11015-11125]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
Task: Religion
[X][Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Martial, -3 Temp Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
No. of Votes: 31
[X][Religion] Keep things simple for now.
No. of Votes: 6

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Task: Doctrine
[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
No. of Votes: 31
[X][Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
No. of Votes: 27
[X][Doctrine] Cosmopolitan. Tolerance and acceptance are the key and Arthrynites should be open to others to gain strength from their different ways.
No. of Votes: 14
[X][Doctrine] Magic. The Arthrynite religion shall look into studying the divine magic of the goddesses to unlock its benefits for its followers.
No. of Votes: 14
[X][Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.
No. of Votes: 13
[X][Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
No. of Votes: 12
[X][Doctrine] Militant. The world is a harsh and cruel place and it is up to goddesses and their servants to protect their followers.
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Doctrine] Dogmatic. Unity is key and the Arthrynite religion should fellow one set of teachings as lain down by the goddesses.
No. of Votes: 3

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Task: Leadership
[x][Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
No. of Votes: 25
[X][Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.
No. of Votes: 12
[X][Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a head of religion in Greenbay.
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Leadership] No formal leadership with all members of the priesthood being equal in power to each other.
No. of Votes: 1

---

Task: Policy
[X][Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.
No. of Votes: 18
[X][Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.
No. of Votes: 13
[X][Policy] Expansion = Focuses on settling new lands.
No. of Votes: 12
[X][Policy] Infrastructure = Focuses on building infrastructure.
No. of Votes: 10
[X][Policy] Exploration = Focuses on exploring areas.
No. of Votes: 9
[X][Policy] Defensive = Takes defensive martial actions.
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Policy] Megaproject = Focuses on building megaprojects.
No. of Votes: 4
[X][Policy] Study = Takes study actions.
No. of Votes: 4
[X][Policy] Trade = Focusing on trade and wealth-increasing actions.
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 42

[X][Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Martial, -3 Temp Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.

[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.

[X][Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.

[X][Religion] Keep things simple for now.
[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X][Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X][Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.

Following the teachings of the goddesses should definitely be placed above being accepting of the ways of others, given that the ways of others are inferior and our ways are very beneficial to our civilisation.

[X][Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Temp Diplo, -1 Temp Martial, -3 Temp Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X][Doctrine] Magic. The Arthrynite religion shall look into studying the divine magic of the goddesses to unlock its benefits for its followers.
[X][Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure = Focuses on building infrastructure.

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a head of religion in Greenbay
[X] [Policy] Expansion = Focuses on settling new lands.

Kiba said:

No vote on policy and why are you voting for proselytizing?

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Spreading our values combos with our Legacy. We also expressedly have a PR goddess and our core pantheon is extremely loyal to mom despite disagreements.
...and of course, simply put, in terms of natural selection, a faith which spreads itself is always going to outcompete a faith which limits itself to a chosen people.

veekie said:

Spreading our values combos with our Legacy. We also expressedly have a PR goddess and our core pantheon is extremely loyal to mom despite disagreements.
...and of course, simply put, in terms of natural selection, a faith which spreads itself is always going to outcompete a faith which limits itself to a chosen people.

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Yeah, Proselyzing combos well with Diplomancy and spreading our culture (which the Legacy already does). After Equality and Community it's pretty up there as a Doctrine to me.

I believe that we should do Main Build Boats next turn for two reasons. Firstly, to get the additional effects that the Main action promises. Secondly, to increase connectivity. If we do not found a colony on the west coast, in which case the new boats will be necessary, then it will at least significantly improve our situation in the lowlands.

For the secondary action, I think we should build a temple somewhere in the lowlands, maybe Caermyr. Barbarism is strong in the south, and building a temple there early will greatly speed up the civilisation of the recalcitrant populace while undercutting our rivals' attempts to influence the region. While another Maradysh Civil War is quite unlikely, more moderate but still significant disruption is still a definite possibility.

[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X][Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X][Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.
[X][Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.

Veekie has a good point. Proselytisation is an important thing.

I'd like to urge people to drop their votes for Magic. The beneficial social aspects of the faith are much more important than the magic we get out of the gods, so Spiritual should be prioritised more highly than Magic. Like, seriously, what does it say about our civilisation and our priests if doctrine says they should care more about flashy effects than the actual teachings and faith?

We won't get to choose our actions next turn, assuming Evantine is still alive.

Andres110 said:

I'd like to urge people to drop their votes for Magic. The beneficial social aspects of the faith are much more important than the magic we get out of the gods, so Spiritual should be prioritised more highly than Magic. Like, seriously, what does it say about our civilisation and our priests if doctrine says they should care more about flashy effects than the actual teachings and faith?

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I'm voting for magic because I want more magic. I'd happily invite Urthryn to join the pantheon for the same reason.

Cariyaga said:

I'm voting for magic because I want more magic. I'd happily invite Urthryn to join the pantheon for the same reason.

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Urthryn is an asshole though. He'd do bad things to our civ's culture if we let him in.