Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Oshha said:

It was a wild land, untouched by any people until the Arthwyd explorers arrived. While the Arthwyd found many interesting things in the forest, one thing stood out above all else. Within the forest was a fearsome species of beast, half-giant cat and half-giant bird.

These flying beasts were not the giant flying lizards of death that the Great Mountain had guarding it, but many still found them to be fearsome creatures like they did with bears, boars and wolves.

While not quite big enough to ride on, once news of them spread back to the rest of the Arthwyd, many expressed interested in taming these impressive beasts, partly because they were just fearsome, but also because their part-cat nature means that there must be something sacred to them.​

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OMG GRIFFONS!!! WE ARE GETTING THE FEATHER-CATS!!!

Okay I am a little calmer now but this is awesome! we have a chance to get our own flying cav from the best mythological creature ever and because of our religion we could get holy griffons! Though it does mention they are too small so we either need to use magic of selective breeding to domesticate them but I think it is clearly worth it for air power. Same with a colony since we already have a faction quest to get it.

Can anyone explain to me as to why they're voting for expansion, because I'm just baffled.

10ebbor10 said:

I'm going to appeal to people to avoid using expansion as a policy. For several reasons :

1) Expansion is dangerous. Every bit of land that expansion grabs is land/people that we have to defend. It's something we want to control..
2) Expansion is not efficient as a policy. Because of our high settling cost, it can't afford to utilize most of it's actions
3) Expansion can lock us into bad choices : Centralization is a limited resource that we can not easily recover. Expansion can settle areas and thus lock us into choices we don't want.
4) Expansion produces Econ and infrastructure debt. We have both in abundance, and don't need more.


From Discord :


Expansion will collapse our society if you give it the chance.

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Sure, we don't want to have it long term. But as it is, we've got this noodle thing going on, and I'd prefer to fix that. I won't want expansion to stay on for more than a couple of turns, but it still seems useful for that. Then we can switch to infrastructure, and focus that hard as hell, until there is no infrastructure left, before expanding again.

I want our civ to be the largest civ around by as large as a margin as we can get. It gives way more action economy. We've got an opportunity to do that now. Once that's done, we'll consolidate heavily. Do almost nothing but infrastructure and studies. That will prep us for another wave of expansion. Ideally timed such that we maintain a significant size lead over every other civ near us. My main goal is to ensure that we always have better action economy than our enemies, and the infrastructure to support it.

That said... if we can improve what our settlements have... that might be worth doing first.

@Oshha is it possible to add additional infrastructure to settlement actions like we did with Trails?

10ebbor10 said:

Can anyone explain to me as to why they're voting for expansion, because I'm just baffled.

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We have the pop and the lowlands are depopulated. I think diplomacy should still be done but expanding and exploring are close second priorities to me.

The problem is that with expansion policy, you don't know where it's going to expand.

It may decide to grab the Gryphons, it may decide to expand the North East. It may decide to go South towards the Forluc. All of those would permanently lock us into holding those territories, and leave us with no ability to settle different areas.

BlueFlamingWings said:

We have the pop and the lowlands are depopulated. I think diplomacy should still be done but expanding and exploring are close second priorities to me.

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Why do we need the extra land though? We already have a massive amount of econ and infrastructure debt. In addition, we don't have the administration capacity to hold the Lowlands. If you want to colonize 1 specific area, just throw a colony at it.

10ebbor10 said:

The problem is that with expansion policy, you don't know where it's going to expand.

It may decide to grab the Gryphons, it may decide to expand the North East. It may decide to go South towards the Forluc. All of those would permanently lock us into holding those territories, and leave us with no ability to settle different areas.



Why do we need the extra land though? We already have a massive amount of econ and infrastructure debt. In addition, we don't have the administration capacity to hold the Lowlands. If you want to colonize 1 specific area, just throw a colony at it.

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I would also like to personally control the colonization efforts (instead of just depending on a passive policy) but I do think it needs to be done - maybe next turn or something.

If Colyryd is going to be a center of trade and fully integrated as a vassal may as well flesh out the lowlands.

At the very least. we wouldn't be a noddle anymore, lol.

10ebbor10 said:

The problem is that with expansion policy, you don't know where it's going to expand.

It may decide to grab the Gryphons, it may decide to expand the North East. It may decide to go South towards the Forluc. All of those would permanently lock us into holding those territories, and leave us with no ability to settle different areas.



Why do we need the extra land though? We already have a massive amount of econ and infrastructure debt. In addition, we don't have the administration capacity to hold the Lowlands. If you want to colonize 1 specific area, just throw a colony at it.

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I understand infrastructure debt. I don't understand econ debt. Can you explain?

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.

jjffjhjf said:

I understand infrastructure debt. I don't understand econ debt. Can you explain?

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Not econ debt. Just econ.

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X][Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
[X][Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.
[X][Doctrine] Magic. The Arthrynite religion shall look into studying the divine magic of the goddesses to unlock its benefits for its followers.
[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.

@Oshha Out of curiosity, can we send an Explore action to the Great Mountain next turn?

10ebbor10 said:

The problem is that with expansion policy, you don't know where it's going to expand.

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Wait.
You quoted from the discord:

10ebbor10 said:

From Discord :

It will safely expand until you can no longer safely expand at which point it will start unsafely expanding.

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Expansion will collapse our society if you give it the chance.

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I think that mean it is going to start by building settlements in our existing Provinces (safely expand) and places controlled by us.

As long as we switch before it starts unsafely expanding, it will not be a problem. I am hoping we stick with the expansion policy for two /three turns, but will not be surprised if we change it the very next turn.
Trails have automated into the settlement action, so the new settlements will be connected to our older ones.

Oshha said:

That is from merging it with another action, Create Trails. It makes your action economy better, but it makes the action more expensive.

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[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.

[X] [Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.

[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.

[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.

jjffjhjf said:

@Oshha is it possible to add additional infrastructure to settlement actions like we did with Trails?

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Yes.

Random Member said:

@Oshha Out of curiosity, can we send an Explore action to the Great Mountain next turn?

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Yes.

Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 441 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11015-11082]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
Task: Religion
[X][Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
No. of Votes: 25
[X][Religion] Keep things simple for now.
No. of Votes: 3

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Doctrine
[X][Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
No. of Votes: 24
[X][Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
No. of Votes: 21
[X][Doctrine] Magic. The Arthrynite religion shall look into studying the divine magic of the goddesses to unlock its benefits for its followers.
No. of Votes: 11
[X][Doctrine] Cosmopolitan. Tolerance and acceptance are the key and Arthrynites should be open to others to gain strength from their different ways.
No. of Votes: 10
[X][Doctrine] Spiritual. Honouring the goddesses and following their teachings should be the main goal of an Arthrynite.
No. of Votes: 10
[X][Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Doctrine] Militant. The world is a harsh and cruel place and it is up to goddesses and their servants to protect their followers.
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Doctrine] Dogmatic. Unity is key and the Arthrynite religion should fellow one set of teachings as lain down by the goddesses.
No. of Votes: 2

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——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Leadership
[X][Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
No. of Votes: 21
[X][Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.
No. of Votes: 8
[X][Leadership] No formal leadership with all members of the priesthood being equal in power to each other.
No. of Votes: 1
[X][Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a head of religion in Greenbay.
No. of Votes: 1

---

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Policy
[X][Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.
No. of Votes: 12
[X][Policy] Expansion = Focuses on settling new lands.
No. of Votes: 10
[X][Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.
No. of Votes: 9
[X][Policy] Exploration = Focuses on exploring areas.
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Policy] Infrastructure = Focuses on building infrastructure.
No. of Votes: 7
[X][Policy] Defensive = Takes defensive martial actions.
No. of Votes: 6
[X][Policy] Megaproject = Focuses on building megaprojects.
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Policy] Study = Takes study actions.
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Policy] Trade = Focusing on trade and wealth-increasing actions.
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 32

Ha, Okay. So we merged settlements and trails by having trails for every settlement and then only building settlements with trails for a bit right? So if we max out some other infrastructure, we can then settle and build that infrastructure a few times to potentially merge the actions right? I'm willing to slow expansion for now (outside the gryphon colony) in order to get additional merges as fast as possible.

[X] [Religion] Keep things simple for now.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy
[X] [Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.

jjffjhjf said:

Ha, Okay. So we merged settlements and trails by having trails for every settlement and then only building settlements with trails for a bit right? So if we max out some other infrastructure, we can then settle and build that infrastructure a few times to potentially merge the actions right? I'm willing to slow expansion for now (outside the gryphon colony) in order to get additional merges as fast as possible.

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Currently, expansionism is a stupid policy because we got reforms to handle and a huge temple backlog.

[X] [Religion] Keep things simple for now.
[X] [Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
[X][Doctrine] Magic. The Arthrynite religion shall look into studying the divine magic of the goddesses to unlock its benefits for its followers.
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy.

Kiba said:

[X] [Religion] Keep things simple for now.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy = Focuses on engaging in diplomacy
[X][Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.



Currently, expansionism is a stupid policy because we got reforms to handle and a huge temple backlog.

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I disagree with your reasoning. That said, I'm going to be switching to infrastructure policy anyways in order to get us that sweet sweet action merging. (well and mega-projects, because I love mega-projects)

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X] [Doctrine] Cosmopolitan. Tolerance and acceptance are the key and Arthrynites should be open to others to gain strength from their different ways.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
[X] [Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.

Guys, do remember Bronze Age. If you're spreading your faith but it must call back to Greenbay for top level orders this presents two issues:
-Threat to sovereignity Rulers will face the issue of their citizens being loyal to another place.
-Communication lag. Please try to consider how on earth they're going to coordinate centrally when the central authority is a year's hard travel away.

Decentralization isn't as big a hazard as it might be otherwise, because Arthryn will keep them on the narrow. We'd need an Iron Age reform once long distance travel isn't a total bitch to implement centralization...but really all we need to do is expand Arthryn's worship base and spread her values of Fairness, Equality and Community to everyone.

veekie said:

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X] [Doctrine] Cosmopolitan. Tolerance and acceptance are the key and Arthrynites should be open to others to gain strength from their different ways.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.
[X] [Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.

Guys, do remember Bronze Age. If you're spreading your faith but it must call back to Greenbay for top level orders this presents two issues:
-Threat to sovereignity Rulers will face the issue of their citizens being loyal to another place.
-Communication lag. Please try to consider how on earth they're going to coordinate centrally when the central authority is a year's hard travel away.

Decentralization isn't as big a hazard as it might be otherwise, because Arthryn will keep them on the narrow. We'd need an Iron Age reform once long distance travel isn't a total bitch to implement centralization...but really all we need to do is expand Arthryn's worship base and spread her values of Fairness, Equality and Community to everyone.

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No vote on policy and why are you voting for proselytizing?

[x] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)
[x] [Doctrine] Community. Valuing your community is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should strive to help their community.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[x] [Leadership] Centralised leadership that has a hierarchy with a council in Greenbay at the top.
[X] [Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.
[X] [Policy] Expansion = Focuses on settling new lands.

jjffjhjf said:

Ha, Okay. So we merged settlements and trails by having trails for every settlement and then only building settlements with trails for a bit right? So if we max out some other infrastructure, we can then settle and build that infrastructure a few times to potentially merge the actions right? I'm willing to slow expansion for now (outside the gryphon colony) in order to get additional merges as fast as possible.

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We did it with palisades too.

[X] [Religion] Keep things simple for now.
[X] [Doctrine] Equality. Treating everyone fairly is one of Arthryn's oldest teachings and Arthrynites should treat others as equals.
[X] [Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.
[X] [Policy] Balanced = Does whatever seems reasonable.

[X] [Religion] Go extra lengths to properly organise the Arthrynite religion into something more. (-2 Stability, -2 Diplo, -1 Martial, -3 Mystic, Chance of a Minor Crisis, Chance of a Major Crisis, Additional Doctrines)

[X][Leadership] Decentralised localised leadership with each region having its own hierarchy that is equal to the hierarchies over regions.

[X] [Doctrine] Proselytising. Spreading the wisdom and prosperity of the goddesses should be the primary purpose of the Arthrynites.