[X]Plan Unfuck This Mess But Reasonable
-[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
-[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 22 tons.
-[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
-[X]Send a note to Ghermain Brothers Automotive stating that they should swap to a cheaper transmission, even if it costs the tank speed. And a bottle of wine for actually sticking to the requirements.
-[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
-[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
 
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[X]Plan Unfuck This Mess But Reasonable

I like this one, if it fails i vote we bring out the big stick but to do so now I'm my eyes is a bit harsh.
 
Unfuck this mess but "reasonable" isn't actually reasonable. It drops the mass allowance to 20 tons rather than 25. Three more tons to work with will certainly help, but I am skeptical as to whether it will help enough given what we have seen so far. GBA's transmission isn't ideal, but isn't necessarily a huge problem and may stop being a design decision that makes sense with more mass allowance and the better engines Jumo may have in a couple months. Beyond that, it has the same issue of Unfuck This Mess: it eliminates one manufacturer for essentially no other reason than as a fuck you that they don't have anything for us yet. The requirements that we are asking for are tough enough that I don't think it makes any sense to do that, even if we wanted to, and I don't see why we would want to. The reason they gave isn't even something under their control.
 
Beyond that, it has the same issue of Unfuck This Mess: it eliminates one manufacturer for essentially no other reason than as a fuck you that they don't have anything for us yet.

However, we can't wait for everyone and their grandma who expresses a wish to participate.
It's several months already that we don't have production of new tanks aside from a trickle of SkZ-1 ausf. whatever, and our tank fleet is antique as it is.

Waiting another 8+ months for a nebulous chance that they would be able to do something better than any of the competitors could offer is not particularly useful as opposed to building some more tanks earlier and getting tankers acquainted with them.
 
However, we can't wait for everyone and their grandma who expresses a wish to participate.
It's several months already that we don't have production of new tanks aside from a trickle of SkZ-1 ausf. whatever, and our tank fleet is antique as it is.

Waiting another 8+ months for a nebulous chance that they would be able to do something better than any of the competitors could offer is not particularly useful as opposed to building some more tanks earlier and getting tankers acquainted with them.
It is litterally one more month for MANN to give us something. I am not asking us to wait for Fenrus. Just one more month for MANN. Hell, it is already waiting one more month for no one in particular at all after the last contestants other than MANN and Fenrus said they'd be done. One more month. That's it.
 
I'm going to second "unfuck but reasonable" as not actually being reasonable. We have but one tank that appears to meet our requirements. However, that is a GBA design. GBA is a sportscar manufacturer, I am heavily dubious about it meeting our requirements for engine and transmission reliability. Oh, and we also don't know how much they compromised on armor, we only know the armor on the Skoda (which of course has excellent armor).

Oh and we have a 155cm height limit for crew members.

This is a fast tank with a good gun. If we were looking for a light to scout and skirmish, it would be a decent choice if it weren't for the height limit. However, what we're looking for is the volume part of our combat force - not a light of a heavy/medium/light split, but a low of a high/low split. This tanks purpose is to stand in combat with the SkW-1, where it is to bolster out the volume that the Skoda lacks. In return, the Skoda offers unparalleled firepower to every unit.

This is a very clumsy approach to this, and I want to unfuck out armor doctrine at the next oppurtunity, but for now our target is to buy a tank that can be made and acquired in good volume so our armor corps has both strength of numbers and of equipment. Other people want to buy a scouting light. The GBA makes a good basis for a scouting light, though it does need some unfucking. However, a scouting light is not what the army needs. It needs something to bolster the volume of the armor corps.
Waiting another 8+ months for a nebulous chance that they would be able to do something better than any of the competitors could offer is not particularly useful as opposed to building some more tanks earlier and getting tankers acquainted with them.
This is not a panic buy. We have like four thousand W-5s, we can take some time to buy a really good tank, not just something adequate.
 
Vote tally, because I'm curious right now.
Adhoc vote count started by TortugaGreen on Dec 12, 2018 at 11:25 PM, finished with 23 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Unfuck Longer
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for all but Fenrus to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 5-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck This Mess But Reasonable
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 22 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Send a note to Ghermain Brothers Automotive stating that they should swap to a cheaper transmission, even if it costs the tank speed. And a bottle of wine for actually sticking to the requirements.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck this Mess
    -[X]Wait 4 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
 
Vote tally, because I'm curious right now.
You know that you're able to do it, right?
Adhoc vote count started by TortugaGreen on Dec 12, 2018 at 11:25 PM, finished with 23 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Unfuck Longer
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for all but Fenrus to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 5-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck This Mess But Reasonable
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 22 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Send a note to Ghermain Brothers Automotive stating that they should swap to a cheaper transmission, even if it costs the tank speed. And a bottle of wine for actually sticking to the requirements.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck this Mess
    -[X]Wait 4 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
 
[X]Plan Unfuck Longer

Changing my vote, as this seems the most logical plan at this point - especially as MANN Co didn't have access to the teams they'd have otherwise been using when we sent the RFQ.
 
VOTES CALLED BRACE YOUR SHIT.
Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Dec 13, 2018 at 12:14 AM, finished with 27 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X]Plan Unfuck Longer
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for all but Fenrus to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 5-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck This Mess But Reasonable
    -[X]Wait 5 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 22 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Send a note to Ghermain Brothers Automotive stating that they should swap to a cheaper transmission, even if it costs the tank speed. And a bottle of wine for actually sticking to the requirements.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
    [X]Plan Unfuck this Mess
    -[X]Wait 4 months, such to allow time for those already working to complete their designs
    -[X]Inform all entrants that due to the difficulty apparent in our weight limits, we will relax them to permit designs otherwise compliant with our specifications, to an upper limit of 25 tons.
    -[X]Inform Skoda that their design will be treated as if it carries the 7,5cm gun by default, and must be tested with it included.
    -[X]Advise Thryssen to look into expanding their turret and ready locker some.
    -[X]Inform those already done that they may resubmit a revised design at the end of the 4-month period, if they wish.
 
Contest 7: Whitepaper
It was about two months into your five month lag that news came in on the telegraph, followed by the largest scandal to rock the Imperial Palace since Count Rosenburg had been found selling secrets to the Bahlks for a pleasure estate in the Macedon Highlands. Apparently, at one of the rather large and formal cross-the-isle Landwere/Reichsmarine events, someone had cocked up in the kitchen and delivered several dozen kilos of garbage shellfish, of which was then cooked and served to all and sundry. Your wife and children were down sick, the Kaiser was hideously ill, the entire Reichsmarine First Fleet flag staff were down as well as most of the general Navy staff who'd come in from Hamburg, and then there was the Landwere High Command.

Apparently, as the joke was going around in the papers between funerary announcements, the only thing that could kill a member of High Command was some foul sea-beast served half-raw on the table. The catch was it looked too damn true, with four fifths of the highest echelon coming out and dying (which wasn't too terribly expected, most having won their spurs back when the Cavalry Branch were still the Imperial Hussars and Curriasiers) and most of the other designated old farts were horribly horribly sick and incapacitated.

When things all shook out a week later and several cooks were jailed and three pursers shot in private, it looked like you'd been unofficially promoted in terms of social circles your name went around in. Of the twenty-five officers who made up the Army High Command Board, five were still the usual old farts, twelve were new moderate reformists who had field staff experience in the Great Pig War, and eight were full blown members of the neue Techniken, coming off field command in the Great Pig War's earlier stages before it all went completely to shit. Most of the Field Marshals were the Moderates, while the neue Techniken were focused on the technological aspects like the Armor Branch, Intelligence Office, Educational Department, and Logistics Branch. Naturally it was one of the old farts who still sat in the chair of Procurement, so you weren't getting more money.

That said, though, your star had still shot up immensely, and you had nothign better to do while you were waiting around for people to finish their designs. Time to crank out some whitepapers, and not get dragged back into the academia. Given the way Lt. Vorbin was laughing into the newspapers, it would probably be a good idea to look very busy so things stayed nice and calm until Anne-Marie and Ilse Volta got out of the hospital. Poor things must be half mad by now with boredom. Doctrine would be a good place to start, right?

Also Jumo had sent you a telegram about this new engine plan he'd cooked up for a double headed double crankshaft thing that wasn't as powerful as the last one, but wasn't nearly as angry-acting in a number of ways you'd throw at the companies when you were done with this.



VOTE

It's a Whitepaper. Lines are free, so go big or go home. Your topic is DOCTRINE. Remember, if someone manages to write a 1000+ word whitepaper as an actual address on the topic, that paper will automatically win.

So get cracking, and don't forget to ask questions and read the thread. I'll try to include information for everyone in every post, so read things carefully.
 
For the Whitepaper, I'll have to look into that (and wait for discussion to form a solid opinion), but some bad food killing off (or at least crippling) most of high command is absurdly catastrophic. As in, this scandal makes me surprised the one exceeding it was so minor, because right now (and especially shortly after the party) I doubt an invasion would have been terribly unsuccessful at all.
 
For the Whitepaper, I'll have to look into that (and wait for discussion to form a solid opinion), but some bad food killing off (or at least crippling) most of high command is absurdly catastrophic. As in, this scandal makes me surprised the one exceeding it was so minor, because right now (and especially shortly after the party) I doubt an invasion would have been terribly unsuccessful at all.

An invasion is a rather big and messy thing. The only reason Marionburg happened was because First and Forth battleship squadrons were sunk at anchor, and even then light forces made it so supply starvation did about as much as your armor. Even with the field marshalls knocked out the boarder reagions are secured by fortifications, terrain and Gerbersjaegers or Seebatalions, or are organically covered by light assets.

Also Rosenberg was notable because he managed to sell the old Schifflen Plan equivalent down to the depot inventories.
 
So, kind of thinking as a sort of stream of consciousness thing here, so apologies in advance if I'm not very concise. I do think I may have focused a bit too much on vehicle specifications here, but I'm thinking of this as trying to get people thinking of Blitzkrieg tactics, or at least increasing the level of overall military mobility.

Title of the Whitepaper: On the Topic of Vehicle Categorization and Organization in Division-level Armored Warfare (Or something to this effect)

General Gist: Light tanks should be primarily reconnaissance vehicles, serving as high speed forward scouts for an Armored Division, which would likely be 1 or 2 units of 2 to 3 vehicles similar to the current SkW-1, albeit intended more for breakthroughs against anti-tank weapons and heavy fortifications in support of infantry divisions, backed up by 2 to 4 units of intermediate vehicles, intended to be cheaper and more mobile than the "heavy tanks" while not sacrificing as much armor and firepower for speed as the light tanks. These vehicles would serve both as anti-fortification and anti-infantry support, while also providing both the Armored Division and it's accompanying Infantry Divisions a level of organic anti-armor support without as much of a need for dedicated anti-armor artillery pieces.

Light tanks should generally be considered vehicles with speeds equaling or in excess of 30 kilometers per hour, fitted for good visibility by the crew and ideally sufficient room for the Commander to make notes on a map for recon missions.

Heavy tanks should generally have sufficient armor to proof themselves against their own armament from no greater distance than at most 400 meters from the front, and ideally being entirely immune to light autocannons of 25 millimeter size or less from all angles at any range below 50 meters. Ultimately, the vehicle should be using weapons with good armor piercing ammunition, but also capable of firing at least decent high explosive shells, so as to facilitate it's intended strategic role of supporting infantry advances using it's main armament.

Intermediate vehicles, "medium" tanks if you will, should be ideally lighter, less expensive to produce, and faster than heavy tanks, while better protected and armed than a light tank. These vehicles should be used for hunting and engaging enemy armor if said armor cannot be brought into battle with the heavier elements of the Armored Division, ideally attempting to force the enemy into the guns of heavier vehicles. These tanks could also be used to eliminate strong points too well defended for light tanks to engage, but which lack the heavy anti-armor defenses which would necessitate the employment of heavy tanks.

Extra Speculation: If all vehicles are equipped with radios, it may be possible to coordinate large scale offensive maneuvers at very high speed, using command vehicles, logistics vehicles, and armored troop transports to move large amounts of war material and men to allow for rapid surprise assaults on hostile fortifications and defenses. This could also allow for incredible strategic and tactical flexibility, as radio operators could relay conditions on the front lines far faster than any courier could, allowing commanding officers to make alterations to plans and orders as the situation develops on the field. However, this would necessitate developing a rapid and reliable method of encrypting the transmissions, as it is sadly much harder to prevent one's enemy from listening in to a radio broadcast than it is to prevent them from reading a missive delivered by courier.

I might add more to this later, not sure. It's 1:37 in the morning over here, so I'm probably going to crash hard now.
 
Contest 7 Whitepaper: Purpose and Organization of the Armored Branch
Purpose and Organization of the Armored Branch

Tanks are uniquely suited to overcoming the obstacles that get placed in the way of an advancing army and keep the keeping up the advance. These advantages should be exploited in their use on the battlefield and enhanced through the organizational structure of the armor branch.



This armored brigade is a highly independent unit. Each armor company has its own motorized maintenance and supply platoon and each armor battalion has motorized infantry support. The Brigade Headquarters also comes with an attached pioneer troop to help pass obstacles, be they natural or created by the enemy, and an artillery battery able to support the attack of the armor either through attacking the same target or through counterbattery fire if the enemy is trying to counter the armor with his own artillery. All members of the brigade should be motorized to the highest possible degree to increase its maneuverability on the battlefield.

All tank companies forming the brigade only have a single type of armored vehicle to ease logistics and to make them more effective at their role.

The heavy tank company concentrates the firepower and armor to where it is needed most, being a strong threat to enemy armored forces and fortifications. Individual platoons can be detached to the armored battalions, but them being independent means that they do not hinder the speed at which the other tanks can move across the battlefield.

The light armored vehicle company is the exact opposite: it has the fastest, most maneuverable vehicles, which do not have to be tracked as long as they have very good offroad capability. These vehicles cannot resist medium and heavy field guns, but should be able to resist anti-tank rifles and if possible light anti-tank guns. They can be armed with either a high or medium velocity tank gun or with an autocannon. If armed with a tank gun, they are able to lend firepower, but not armor, to the front where the enemy armor is pushing. But the main purpose of them is to act as scouts and skirmishers as well as to exploit openings. Their speed should be high enough to make them able to pursue retreating motorized infantry, and when there is an opening in the enemy lines, they can go into the rear and destroy as much of the supply and transportation network as possible.

The remaining armor companies make use of a mainline combat tank. Combining most of the speed and mobility of the lights with most of the armor and firepower of the heavies, they are able to fulfill most tasks without assistance from either. In the frontal section, their armor should be enough to resist its own gun from at least the outer edge of combat range, ideally closer. The gun should produce a decent muzzle velocity to enable fire at enemy formations that are advancing or retreating without having to leave their position in the larger formation for something more vulnerable as well as to make it easier to hit tanks at medium ranges. On the attack, it falls to these tanks to engage enemy armor. If the threat enemy armor poses is too strong, then they are to call for assistance from the heavy tanks. If the enemy front is broken, these tanks also have the task of preventing the enemy from closing it so that further troops can move through.

The motorized rifle companies that are part of the armored brigade should have at least one weapons team.

All headquarters and all platoon lead tanks are equipped with a long range radio, if possible the remaining tanks and the trucks of the motorized infantry are to carry shorter-range two-way units, but receivers have to be present in all tanks.

This formation can make a strong push and, with the artillery, infantry and supply units, is able to also defend it until the rest of the army catches back up. However, such a push can leave the front vulnerable to a counterattack that bypasses the armored brigade still involved in combat. The infantry should thus have its own anti-tank guns. Since attacking armor is able to concentrate its force to a far higher degree than the defending infantry, these anti-tank units should be very mobile so that they can be brought to where the attack is happening. This role can be filled by a tank-gun armed light armored vehicle, but this should be an infantry program.

All vehicles should have a single turret with a single gun and a coaxial machine gun. The loader is to be separate from the gunner so that the target can be tracked while reloading. If possible, the commander is to be placed in the turret to give him the best visibility possible. The commander should be separate from the gunner if possible so that further targets can be spotted while one is being serviced. The turret should also have a basket so that no crew members trip when the turret unexpectedly rotates.

Due to the large weight required to armor a vehicle against field or tank guns, the armor needed for this should be concentrated on the front, with the sides and rear only armored against weaker weapons.

The commander is also responsible for operating the radio if it is place within the turret, if the radio is placed within the hull, the operation can fall to another crewmember. The input and output however should still be routed to the commander.

All tanks should be operatable by crewmembers of standard adult height, ideally a standard deviation above. This enables the armor branch to have a wider pool of recruits. Thus, it can look for the best tankers, instead of those that fit inside the tank. The hatches through which the crew enters should be positioned in such a way that it is easy for the crew to evacuate the tank in case of a fire.

Tank crews should be wearing helmets to prevent head injuries when riding over rough terrain. Also present in the tank should be hard gloves, a wrench, a crowbar, a shovel and the tools needed to open a track link for maintenance. Spare track links are ideally also carried. Easy access to the engine, transmission and suspension is likewise valuable. Tanks should also carry something to get themselves out when they're stuck in mud or similar. Suitable for this task is a log that can be fixed to the tracks, greatly increasing the traction and ideally getting the tank back on ground where it can drive normally.
- - -
That's 1019 words, AKA I made it across the border. Also a picture says more than a thousand words, and I have a picture, so I effectively have 2k words there :V

I tried to write something that makes sense in this time period (the Irromic military is bite-and-hold) while also being very capable in both modern maneuver warfare and deep battle (thus the reference to breakthroughs).​
 
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I'm going to try write a paper on how to counter tanks. What's the status on heavy anti-air in this quest does anyone know ?
We got the 2cm (it's in the W-5), so we can build a Flakvierling if we build some larger mags (the W-5 ones are pretty small because the tank is small). However heavy autocannons aren't there yet (I asked since I originally wanted one for this tank, it's in the discussion before the gun trials) and heavier than that should just be field guns with new sights.
 
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