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A Catgirl's Last Chance for High School Romance - COMPLETE

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Nyvis said:
Yeah, but things were fairly calm until we started explaining why we were annoyed at them. They sounded worried at first, and what made them angry is the backtalk from what I read.
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You both read it slightly wrong, in my eyes, and read it just fine. It's completely true that the initail confrontation was relatively peaceful, but everything was just simmering below the surface. Mom doesn't like losing her composure, she wants to come across as the Good Mature Mother, and in that sense Good Mature Mothers don't scream or get upset at their daughters. I doubt it was some sort of nefarious trap, but when the interaction irritated enough for Hanako to take active action, that was exactly what was needed for her true feelings to explode. It was technically the response, but that's more an excuse than a cause.

[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!

Hot take: I think we shouldn't come back except for strictly necessary reasons. Mom has proven consistently that she isn't going to listen to us, she isn't going to trust us, and she isn't going to accept us for who we are. Like... what does coming back even accomplish? It'll show that Mom was right, more or less, if anything, and re-assert her control over us, and at absolute best the same dance happens again, at worst we are right back where we were started today. This isn't a safe home for us, and I feel that it should be on Mom to prove us wrong.
 
[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!

I'm torn between this and refusing to hand over the phone, but frankly at this point, Hanako needs away from this toxicity for a good long while.
 
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[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!

Whatever had been here for Hanako is disappearing as time goes on. At this point she needs some space to realize that. And just space in general.
 
Mm. On the one hand, my first flush reaction is smashing the phone. I don't generally trust my first flush reactions, but... it's tempting. A part of me almost wishes it would result in Hanako, dead-eyed, saying, "Fine," before smashing the phone against the wall and walking away calmly after handing it over, but I don't think things are actually that bad...

Ah, well.

That being said, I'm not actually sure what I want to vote for here. Running is melodramatic and foolish, and trying to argue will almost certainly fail (and risks making her suspicious, as well as cementing in her mind that Hanako is being a bratty child rather than an insulted teenager). Knuckling under is probably the safest bet, and it would fit with the sullen sulk from the beginning of the update, but I do share the concerns re: mom snooping.
 
Scify said:
Knuckling under is probably the safest bet, and it would fit with the sullen sulk from the beginning of the update, but I do share the concerns re: mom snooping.
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I disagree. Knuckling under is probably the worst choice. The interactions with her friends are the only thing keeping Hanako sane at the moment. Without that, Hanako is pretty much guaranteed to implode. Maybe in your view running away is running is melodramatic and foolish, but her home environment is undeniably toxic for her at the moment. Shes a teenager, she can crash at a friends house for a while. More than anything else, she probably needs some space from her family.
 
I have no problem with running away option, and likely will switch to it if knuckling down seems to win.

It's not just about us, now. It's also about our friends, too. And so on. I probably will be ambivalent if it's just Hanako, but...
 
[x] NO! You're not giving up your phone. It would sell out your friends and maybe out you and you need it. It's your lifeline and you're not letting going of it, not when you're already drowning. Refuse to give it up. Defy her. That's the only thing you can do.
 
[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!
 
[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!

Forced move. All other options are unviable. Hanako does not have an encrypted phone and doesn't know how to remove her SD. We can't put our friends at risk. The first and usually best option for self-defense is leaving.
 
Broken Base said:
How so?
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Keldin said:
I disagree. Knuckling under is probably the worst choice. The interactions with her friends are the only thing keeping Hanako sane at the moment. Without that, Hanako is pretty much guaranteed to implode. Maybe in your view running away is running is melodramatic and foolish, but her home environment is undeniably toxic for her at the moment. Shes a teenager, she can crash at a friends house for a while. More than anything else, she probably needs some space from her family.
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Where do you see it going? Hanako has no means to support herself (and I don't think she's been driven to the point of trying to make it a permanent running away from home anyway), and no particularly good place to go. IIRC, her parents know Mari's parents and are likely to check there first. Erika's parents are non-supportive at best, and are likely to frown on the idea of her having a female friend over without some prior reason to think the two aren't involved. Jesse isn't out to his parents, and they'd likely take a dim view of Hanako staying over for the same reason. Akane... might be an option, or maybe Sayaka (though the latter is likely to set off all sorts of alarms in mom's head if she finds out). Even if we're only looking at a shorter term running (an hour or two), I don't really see it playing out well. The upside is that it gives Hanako time to hide stuff from her friends. The downside is that it likely makes mom more suspicious, and angrier.

My point with knuckling under being safer is it temporarily satisfies mom's anger, which potentially reduces the likelihood of her snooping in the phone and generally means she's less likely to step things up. Refusing or running will almost definitely do that, and smashing the phone probably will... though it also seems to be the option that is most likely to get through to her that something is actually wrong. Accepting the punishment is also the only choice that doesn't seriously risk confirming what she seems to believe: that we're just a kid throwing a tantrum because we didn't get our way. I don't really like it, which is why I haven't voted for it, but so far it seems the best of a bad batch of options.
 
Scify said:
Where do you see it going? Hanako has no means to support herself (and I don't think she's been driven to the point of trying to make it a permanent running away from home anyway), and no particularly good place to go. IIRC, her parents know Mari's parents and are likely to check there first. Erika's parents are non-supportive at best, and are likely to frown on the idea of her having a female friend over without some prior reason to think the two aren't involved. Jesse isn't out to his parents, and they'd likely take a dim view of Hanako staying over for the same reason. Akane... might be an option, or maybe Sayaka (though the latter is likely to set off all sorts of alarms in mom's head if she finds out). Even if we're only looking at a shorter term running (an hour or two), I don't really see it playing out well. The upside is that it gives Hanako time to hide stuff from her friends. The downside is that it likely makes mom more suspicious, and angrier.

My point with knuckling under being safer is it temporarily satisfies mom's anger, which potentially reduces the likelihood of her snooping in the phone and generally means she's less likely to step things up. Refusing or running will almost definitely do that, and smashing the phone probably will... though it also seems to be the option that is most likely to get through to her that something is actually wrong. Accepting the punishment is also the only choice that doesn't seriously risk confirming what she seems to believe: that we're just a kid throwing a tantrum because we didn't get our way. I don't really like it, which is why I haven't voted for it, but so far it seems the best of a bad batch of options.
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I'm unconvinced that she hasn't been driven to a desire to permanently run away from home at this point, though- whether she will regret that down the line is a lot less clear (she probably will in one way or another), but on some level from the update I feel that it's clear that she feels her mother crossed a line, and this is a consistent point of a pattern of behavior where she is slowly losing all control over her own actions due to her mother's bigotry; there is little sign that it's going to get any better and plenty of sign that if she remotely pushes back against her mom, she's simply going to tighten things. It's been the pattern so far. At a bare minimum, even if it's not justified, I definitely it see as a plausible reaction on her part, especially when her Mom has escalated things to this level, and seems to have no interest in her opinion. I really don't think that anything outside acquistance would appease her and not make her angrier- she quite clearly doesn't like Hanako acting out and this sign of frustration would still be that. Accepting the punishment would merely lead her to the conclusion that her daughter accepts her judgment and if anything is going to convince her she made the correct call, it's that. We would essentially be relying on her good faith for us literally not be trapped in our own home, and I don't find that a good idea.

You dismiss the running away option as being melodramatic, but at the beginning of the quest we decided to make Hanako a melodramatic character; so really that fits in quite perfectly as being the kind of response she would have, especially when she's upset and angry and scared and it feels like her father also betrayed her and she doesn't have anybody to rely on in the house. In terms of the question of where she is going to stay- that is a valid question that we might end up needing to consider via vote, especially if it is established that this is a long-term thing, but I don't see it as a question Hanako would be thinking about right now at all; it simply isn't the sort of long-term reasoning that anybody as angry, sad, etc as she is would even really consider, in my opinion.
 
Scify said:
Where do you see it going? Hanako has no means to support herself (and I don't think she's been driven to the point of trying to make it a permanent running away from home anyway), and no particularly good place to go. IIRC, her parents know Mari's parents and are likely to check there first. Erika's parents are non-supportive at best, and are likely to frown on the idea of her having a female friend over without some prior reason to think the two aren't involved. Jesse isn't out to his parents, and they'd likely take a dim view of Hanako staying over for the same reason. Akane... might be an option, or maybe Sayaka (though the latter is likely to set off all sorts of alarms in mom's head if she finds out). Even if we're only looking at a shorter term running (an hour or two), I don't really see it playing out well. The upside is that it gives Hanako time to hide stuff from her friends. The downside is that it likely makes mom more suspicious, and angrier.

My point with knuckling under being safer is it temporarily satisfies mom's anger, which potentially reduces the likelihood of her snooping in the phone and generally means she's less likely to step things up. Refusing or running will almost definitely do that, and smashing the phone probably will... though it also seems to be the option that is most likely to get through to her that something is actually wrong. Accepting the punishment is also the only choice that doesn't seriously risk confirming what she seems to believe: that we're just a kid throwing a tantrum because we didn't get our way. I don't really like it, which is why I haven't voted for it, but so far it seems the best of a bad batch of options.
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Yeah I'm not voting "run away" as some sort of long-term solution; I just want to get enough distance that we can clean up our phone. Safety is priority one now that the threat's been made.
 
Was pointed out to me that as Hanako is a minor, this is going to get the police involved and thus running away isn't a sustainable option long-term and really really bad short-term (and long-term). Sooo second-best option.

[X] Fuck you and fuck this phone Sure, she can have it--after you smash it. Do what it takes to damage the phone beyond repair before you hand it over. You have to protect not just yourself but your friends and this is the only way to do it. Even if it makes things worse for you, personally.
 
I can see the logic for changing to the smash phone option, but I'm going to stick with run away. The way I see it, there is no way this can go that will somehow convince mom that Hanako maybe has a point. If go submissive wins, Mom will see this as a childish rebellion that she has successfully quashed. If we try to keep the phone, she knows we have some sort of secret and will double down on rooting it out. If we smash the phone, she'll see it as us being extra immature and clamp down, and we're also down a phone which will cut us off further from friendly faces. Even if it's only temporary, running away at least gives us some breathing room and the possibility of finding a longer-term arrangement that keeps us away from Mom. The fact of the matter is that unless a massive miracle occurs, she doesn't respect Hanako or her decisions, and that's not going to change. Getting away isn't a perfect solution, but it's a hell of a lot better than any of the other options.

EDIT: If nothing else, the grandparents may be an option to stay with. Still with family, but if we explain our situation they may not turn Hanako back over to mom.
 
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[X] Fuck you and fuck this phone Sure, she can have it--after you smash it. Do what it takes to damage the phone beyond repair before you hand it over. You have to protect not just yourself but your friends and this is the only way to do it. Even if it makes things worse for you, personally.
 
Okay, I'm going to make a last pitch for Smash.

We've spent a lot of the quest taking confrontations with Mom and being evasive. Avoiding her, hiding things, running away. We're constantly in fear of her, and it's setting up a pattern of behavior where we hide from our problems.

Smashing is the most direct option I think we have here. I don't think it's perfect, and I'm not sure it wins the argument, but it's the one that tells Mom straight up that we're sick of doing this, that she's not going to talk us into giving her the phone and letting her snoop if she keeps pushing. She'll never get it and she can't even try, and there's no way for her to win that argument. It doesn't solve the larger issue of us being suspicious or sneaking around, but honestly none of these do? If we run away we confirm that there's something going on that would make us rather flee our home than talk to her, and if we just say no we're letting her know there's something on the phone that matters to us.

So of all the bad options, I think smashing is the one that has the clearest message.
 
ColdGoldLazarus said:
I can see the logic for changing to the smash phone option, but I'm going to stick with run away. The way I see it, there is no way this can go that will somehow convince mom that Hanako maybe has a point. If go submissive wins, Mom will see this as a childish rebellion that she has successfully quashed. If we try to keep the phone, she knows we have some sort of secret and will double down on rooting it out. If we smash the phone, she'll see it as us being extra immature and clamp down, and we're also down a phone which will cut us off further from friendly faces. Even if it's only temporary, running away at least gives us some breathing room and the possibility of finding a longer-term arrangement that keeps us away from Mom. The fact of the matter is that unless a massive miracle occurs, she doesn't respect Hanako or her decisions, and that's not going to change. Getting away isn't a perfect solution, but it's a hell of a lot better than any of the other options.

EDIT: If nothing else, the grandparents may be an option to stay with. Still with family, but if we explain our situation they may not turn Hanako back over to mom.
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I agree with your general logic, and my dissention is for a very different reason than Nemo. I think that on some level we're committing to something I'm really unsure a lot of us want to commit to. I'm not even against running away permanently, it's probably the best idea, but the issue of the police makes things far more complicated on some levels- not only do we need to find somebody to stay with, we need to hope that the police will either not look for her in rather obvious places- Mari's for instance- or that it'll just be a "Knock on the door, have you seen her, no? Okay." If it's the former then the entire situation becomes far more complicated. Even if it's the latter, this feels like a Rubicon moment to me. If we go home, they're going to not only know why we ran away, but where we were, and thus probably why we actively avoided the police. That's going to require a very good answer for things to not become... ridiculously draconian. And I don't think we can supply that good an answer without saying things that will worsen the situation, especially since in no chance can we expect our father to back us up at all.

Like at its core, I really think this is going to be a turning point in the quest, and i'm not convinced that questers really want it. That said, given that I do, I suppose I should vote in good faith.

[X] Run You have to get away. Get away now. Bolt out the door and don't stop running. You have to get away. Get away, NOW!
 
Broken Base said:
Even if it's the latter, this feels like a Rubicon moment to me. If we go home, they're going to not only know why we ran away, but where we were, and thus probably why we actively avoided the police. That's going to require a very good answer for things to not become... ridiculously draconian. And I don't think we can supply that good an answer without saying things that will worsen the situation, especially since in no chance can we expect our father to back us up at all.
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Your logic is sound, but I do wanna comment a little bit.

This is part of what I mean? Every time we've avoided things so far, we've kicked the can further down the road. And the more we do that, the worse the blow ups get. Hanako tamping down on her worries and anxieties and trying to keep things under control makes the blowups worse, every time, and I think we're seeing that pattern with our Mom too.

She's already getting very confrontational. If we run away and sheepishly come back, I'm not sure how many more times we can avoid the problem, at this rate. We need to take a stand, sooner or later, and I'd rather go with sooner. And Smashing is a lot stronger for that than coming back home later is likely to be. Even if we get some respite and space, that's just another avoidance, and we've tried that in the past? Skipping out on the party helped us calm down, but it also lead us right back to here.

So if we do run, I almost feel like it's going to be all or nothing, and we should think early about what options we have other than coming back, or how to best come back in a position of strength?
 
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I guess I'm picturing the scenario as either we run for a couple of hours and come back slightly better able to handle things.
Or we run and just plain don't come back unless dragged kicking and screaming by the police, and try to start adulting on our own.
That being said, I'm not sure if things will necessarily play out that way, and this may indeed result merely in increasing the tension to ridiculous levels and Mom resorting to full-on 'Cinderella's wicked stepmother' tactics.
Which we could point to as a concrete example of abuse as a way of getting out for good, but I'd rather Hanako not have to go through that sort of thing.

So I'm really not sure at this point. If I do change my vote, I think I'd go with arguing to keep the phone. We need our support network, and if the worst case scenario occurs and Mom does find out, we can warn everyone else.
 
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Just a note: The police will likely not be involved right away unless you decide to stay away longer than a few hours. If you spend another night away from home though, all bets are off.
 
[X] NO! You're not giving up your phone. It would sell out your friends and maybe out you and you need it. It's your lifeline and you're not letting going of it, not when you're already drowning. Refuse to give it up. Defy her. That's the only thing you can do.

Running away is sounding less appealing to me. But we want to keep the phone. And if Mom finds out... I'm starting to think that may not be the worst thing in the world. Let the conflict come to a head, at least, instead of prolonging it on and on and on.
 
Broken Base said:
and it feels like her father also betrayed her
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I'm not really seeing any evidence of this in the update.
Broken Base said:
but on some level from the update I feel that it's clear that she feels her mother crossed a line,
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I'm not really seeing this, either. Hanako reads as upset, sure; she knew she was going to be punished going into this, but she wasn't expecting to have her phone taken. But I'm not reading anything that feels like a straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

Beyond that, I think the people that are advocating for making this a running away thing, as opposed to just getting out of there briefly to cool off, are reading a little too much into the incidents we've seen, and forgetting that these issues are a fairly recent development (also, that they aren't actually happening on a regular basis--several of the updates have a month or two folded in). It generally takes quite a bit for a kid to run away--Fumiko is a problem, definitely, but she's not actively hateful. From my reading, Hanako is spending most of her time at home tense, but that's as much or more because she's hiding things than because her mother is being hostile.

That being said...
ColdGoldLazarus said:
EDIT: If nothing else, the grandparents may be an option to stay with. Still with family, but if we explain our situation they may not turn Hanako back over to mom.
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I'm going to reiterate that I really don't think Hanako is at this point, but I think this is the most viable option if that changes.
ColdGoldLazarus said:
Running away is sounding less appealing to me. But we want to keep the phone. And if Mom finds out... I'm starting to think that may not be the worst thing in the world. Let the conflict come to a head, at least, instead of prolonging it on and on and on.
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This is also something I've been thinking about, and one of the reasons I was initially leaning towards smashing the phone. Because that obviously leads to the question of "Why would you do that?", with the answer being "because I can't trust you with it."
 
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