A Little Trouble in Big China - A Chinese Warlord Quest

@kilopi505 I am thinking of creating a dockyard: Build a fortified dockyard in Canton, with the aid of soviet engineers, experienced dockworkers from Shanghai sent by Du Yuesheng in exchange for (smuggled Howell Rifles for his guard, money, ...), and anyone with experience/knowledge in the shipbuilding industry.
What would you want for the dockworkers? I doubt political aid will help you, being at war with Japan, but if you want that, no problems here.

Holy shit, what?!

We have NO COUNTER to the Imperial Japanese Navy at this time. The IJN is just going to do to that fortified dock what the United States Navy did to the Atlantic Wall at Normandy!

Massacre them!

A better idea is buying airplanes now, and experiment with torpedoes and bombs to attach to the airplanes, and get the Soviets helping us with that.

How about this. Intelligence on IJN movements, so the airplanes can ambush them at sea.
 
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A better idea is buying airplanes now, and experiment with torpedoes and bombs to attach to the airplanes, and get the Soviets helping us with that.
That was my first plan, but at this point the Soviets have no airforce, the Left-KMT is unlikely to get trade deals from anyone (besides, it's being blockaded), and Dadarian has said:
Airplanes are not produced. Far too early.
So an airforce will be difficult to get. I could pay you to buy airplanes from wherever you can, if you then smuggled them over, but that's risky for you.
How about this. Intelligence on IJN movements, so the airplanes can ambush them at sea.
That would be good, especially since carriers are still very limited.

The IJN is just going to do to that fortified dock what the United States Navy did to the Atlantic Wall at Normandy!
Yeah, I'd forgotten about their naval guns...:oops:
 
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I propose that I join the Soviet Union and become a power. After 50 years we will be the strongest.
Who are you voting for? Although no doubt, in 50 China will be a power, the problem is the current war with Japan. In any case, if you want something with the Soviet Union, you can vote for Sun Yat-Sen, Chen Duxiu (Shaseyu's plan, the CPC), or make your own plan.
 
[X]Sun Yat-sen: Han Revolutionary and leader of the Chinese National Party. Founder of the Chinese Republic.
-[X]Plan Military Expansion and Defense
 
[X] Du "Big-Eared Du" Yuesheng: Han mob boss who has a controlling interest in Shanghai and worked with elements of the Republicans. Ties with elements of the Chinese Revolutionary Party (Kemingtang).
-[X] kilopi505's plan
 
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[X]Sun Yat-sen: Han Revolutionary and leader of the Chinese National Party. Founder of the Chinese Republic.
-[X]Plan Military Expansion and Defense
 
[X] Du "Big-Eared Du" Yuesheng: Han mob boss who has a controlling interest in Shanghai and worked with elements of the Republicans. Ties with elements of the Chinese Revolutionary Party (Kemingtang).

[X] kilopi505's plan

In quests I find the more bombastic plan better otherwise we will never see something like that ..
 
@Dadarian, is the artillery in use and being made by the Qing and the KMT and Fengtiang Clique only the local copies of the Krupp 7.5 cm Model 1903 Or is there also Stokes mortar copies being created at the same time?

For machine guns...do the Chinese factions have them? If so, is it all M1917 Browning machine guns?

And is this the mixture of rifles of the various factions?

The 2 KMT: Hanyang 88, M1819 Hall rifle and Howell Automatic Rifle.

Qing China and Fengtian Clique: Hanyang 88.

Yes on the M1903, no on the Stokes insofar as Stokes would disown the mortars (same basic principles in building though).

Most Chinese factions have at least a few machine guns, they're predominantly Maxims left over from the OG Qing days. However the Left KMT and Fengtian do have some PM M1910s from the Soviets and Whites respectfully.

A huge mixture of rifles. Left KMT and Fengtian have Mosins available, Fengtian have Gewehr 88s. Eclectic others from various wars and supplies throughout China. However the 2 KMT factions don't have Howells, they were built in limited quantities in Shanghai and used by your guards and some KMGT army units in Shanghai (after your guards were filled out).
 
Yes on the M1903, no on the Stokes insofar as Stokes would disown the mortars (same basic principles in building though).

Most Chinese factions have at least a few machine guns, they're predominantly Maxims left over from the OG Qing days. However the Left KMT and Fengtian do have some PM M1910s from the Soviets and Whites respectfully.

A huge mixture of rifles. Left KMT and Fengtian have Mosins available, Fengtian have Gewehr 88s. Eclectic others from various wars and supplies throughout China. However the 2 KMT factions don't have Howells, they were built in limited quantities in Shanghai and used by your guards and some KMGT army units in Shanghai (after your guards were filled out).

Oh my God. The curse of the dozen calibers strikes once again.

This is a nightmare that is surely part of the reason why most Chinese forces aren't able to perform at their best. This has got to be fixed eventually.
 
The KMT is building up its military right now. Could we sneak calibre standardization into the mix?
Continue expanding the military industry, beginning standarization

I edited it in a while ago. To do it well it would be better to spend a whole action- and I'm unsure of wherether to add that in or to add an action about getting an airforce (which could fail, but is more immediately necessary for the war), because this action still has to be replaced:
3. Build a fortified dockyard in Canton, with the aid of soviet engineers, experienced dockworkers from Shanghai sent by Du Yuesheng in exchange for (Howell Rifles, money, ...), and anyone with experience/knowledge in the shipbuilding industry. Give good pay and conditions, and have them train more workers.

It can still be done next turn, and I don't know if shifting arms production in the middle of a war, while an offfensive is being done, is a good idea.
@HanEmpire @Exterminatus @ThatGuyWithIdeas @Helher @kalugin @Chimeraguard What do you prefer, airforce or standarization?

Also, HanEmpire, I think you forgot to vote.
 
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Also, HanEmpire, I think you forgot to vote.
Thanks.

[X]Sun Yat-sen: Han Revolutionary and leader of the Chinese National Party. Founder of the Chinese Republic.
-[X]Plan Military Expansion and Defense

I'd say airforce takes precedence to small arms. We need to keep the Japanese bombers away from our factories to produce guns in the first place, standardized or not.
 
Yes on the M1903, no on the Stokes insofar as Stokes would disown the mortars (same basic principles in building though).

Most Chinese factions have at least a few machine guns, they're predominantly Maxims left over from the OG Qing days. However the Left KMT and Fengtian do have some PM M1910s from the Soviets and Whites respectfully.

A huge mixture of rifles. Left KMT and Fengtian have Mosins available, Fengtian have Gewehr 88s. Eclectic others from various wars and supplies throughout China. However the 2 KMT factions don't have Howells, they were built in limited quantities in Shanghai and used by your guards and some KMGT army units in Shanghai (after your guards were filled out).

I have to ask, was there a point in my plans in creating any of those military offices few years ago? Seeing very little effect it had to modernizing Fengtian army.
 
You gave some officers very good jobs, who hired most of their family as staff.

Well. At least they're assured to be loyal because you let them have the jobs.

I edited it in a while ago. To do it well it would be better to spend a whole action- and I'm unsure of wherether to add that in or to add an action about getting an airforce (which could fail, but is more immediately necessary for the war), because this action still has to be replaced:


It can still be done next turn, and I don't know if shifting arms production in the middle of a war, while an offfensive is being done, is a good idea.
@HanEmpire @Exterminatus @ThatGuyWithIdeas @Helher @kalugin @Chimeraguard What do you prefer, airforce or standarization?

I thought @Dadarian said no aircraft available? Does that not naturally mean Standardization is the only option?

Also, how about making the Howell Automatic Rifle the standard rifle and starting to phase out everything else? It has an outsized impact on the Battle of Shanghai, you know?
 
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[X]Sun Yat-sen: Han Revolutionary and leader of the Chinese National Party. Founder of the Chinese Republic.
-[X]Plan Military Expansion and Defense
 
Anyone for Uniting the Capitalists of the World?!

Anyone for a revolution to change the Japanese Empire into the Republic of East Asia?!

Then vote Du Yuesheng! Yes! Du! Yue! Sheng!
 
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Art

This is what should have happened, a declaration of war instead of the train explosion. Excellent art by @Slayers148 (Theoretically this commission should be accompanying the success of war plan last turn.)
Join Zhang Faction in extracting vengeance on this unjust world!

[] Zhang Xueliang
-[] Enemies on all sides
  1. Enact full emergency powers and start military drafts.
  2. Organize displaced civilians into supply producing collectives far from front line, to protect them and reduce drain on military and government resources; also task the collectives to look after the wounded and crippled. Relocate industrial bases to areas further from front line and coastline.
  3. Continue warring with Imperialists defensively, use trench warfare if viable.
  4. Have communication office continue to rally all support and spread Japanese atrocities in China and around the world. Praise the soldiers and civilians' heroic stand against Japanese imperialism.
  5. Issue war bonds, sell land, and borrow money from both internal and external parties. Funds to go toward the military and war effort first and foremost.
  6. Invite all nations and League of Nations to Manchuria to observe the war and protect their nationals.
 
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I thought @Dadarian said no aircraft available? Does that not naturally mean Standardization is the only option?
Also, how about making the Howell Automatic Rifle the standard rifle and starting to phase out everything else? It has an outsized impact on the Battle of Shanghai, you know?

I took it as meaning that internal production of airplanes is currently impossible, the plan if airplanes won out is to gain planes through other method, this was the base plan I had made up:

Create the ROCAF. Planes will be gained through the following methods:
-Asking the Soviets for planes, flyers, trainers, and engineers with experience in the area. Pay if necessary.
-Offering to buy any plane from wherever possible (any corporation, any government), accepting extreme prices. Try to bribe members of the corporations/ officials in the government so they will accept. Particularly, gain them (both legally and unofficially) through and from the British Raj and French Indochina, as they can go through land.
-Loyal, but little known members of the KMT with experience in business will create separate shell corporations in Shanghai, Macao, Hong Kong, Tsingtao, Beijan and Tianjin, with the purpose of buying airplanes, and smuggling them to the Canton-KMT. The NBIS will aid in this matter.
-Expropriating any plane in the Canton-KMT, with the person being paid and acceptable price, and if they have experience, being offered a job as a trainer/flyer.
-If you (Du Yuesheng) accepted, having you smuggle them in too, in exchange for whatever.

Standarization, as good as it would be, just seems like something that would be better to do when not fighting against an enemy with superior firepower, and little hunger or capability for a long war.

About the Howell Rifle: I don't really have much knowledge about rifles, but since most militaries I know of didn't use automatic rifles at this time, and I don't know how easy they would be to mass-produce, I didn't think they'd be a good choice- in the plan I had them for a support unit that worked like machine gunners (since the KMT has almost no machine guns):
all divisions (starting with the best and cotinuing with the rest) will have a support battalion armed with Howell rifles
But, as I said, I don't know much about rifles.

As this occurred, the Qing government wiped their hands of the Fengtian Clique, outlining them as rogue elements that had unrightfully seized the various provinces from court control.
Try to secretly make a temporal ceasefire/alliance with KMT and reconcile with the Fengtian Clique to make a surprise attack with the united forces from all three sides

Mortenkam, Does "reconcile with the Fengtian Clique" mean going back on this statement made earlier? @VoidZero, would you consider being declared Governor of the North East/Manchuria by the Republic, in exchange for symbolically accepting it as the legitimate government, and promises of future aid (supposing you survive, of course)?
 
The point is, that if I am getting Qing China to attack Japan, then washing our hands of Fengtian Clique would have been weirdly stupid, so I thought making some sort of gesture of forgiveness, like that the first attack on Japan was unsanctioned, but that they were honestly right to try to throw out the invaders, so now Qing China is joining in and are willing to pardon Fengtian Clique for them starting a war with Japan without permission.
 
[x] sun Yat-sen: Han Revolutionary and leader of the Chinese National party. Founder of the Chinese Republic. [x] plan military Expansion and Defence
 
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