The danger though is that since it's an improvised attack, it's damage will probably be a lot less than it would otherwise be, making things potentially quite dangerous if Guardian decides to Intercept it (especially if the damage bonuses from Overwhelm and/or Godlike Strength get suppressed).
At the very least though, I do not expect it to work more than once. She'll wise up to the tactic when she realizes what we're doing.
The danger though is that since it's an improvised attack, it's damage will probably be a lot less than it would otherwise be, making things potentially quite dangerous if Guardian decides to Intercept it (especially if the damage bonuses from Overwhelm and/or Godlike Strength get suppressed).
At the very least though, I do not expect it to work more than once. She'll wise up to the tactic when she realizes what we're doing.
We both have Godlike Strength so it cancels out, Overwhelm is guaranteed to apply, and at current level we have 28.5 (42.8) k damage. Even assuming we get our damage halved (see Brave Heart), we're still looking at the damage of... ~40k against ~55k... Unless we raise Moon Scepter level. Which we should. Next level would be fine.
So to sum things up:
1) Rogue might be able to negate our Intercept
2) Kill-reviving the Benigns one at a time will work
3) Consequently, having a method of dropping Guardian might be a good idea.
@Naron, can the twins moderate a synch-spell (twinned Scorching Sunlight) once it goes through Guardian's intercept? Would that attack even be Intercepted as a single whole? And for that matter, can she even intercept our Baleful Eclipse with its frankly weird "does not actually exist until it hits the target" mechanic?
Let's see. Guardian has 400'000 HP, or 4'000 Burn damage.
Twinned Scorching Sunlight at 12 has (81920+Dice+500 Rebalanced Existence)x6=495k expected damage, and at 13 it has double that, so 890k expected damage, great enough to strike down Guardian.
Hmmm. 330 to Sunlight (aka Guardian-drop). 570 to Scepter 21 (aka Rogue-drop)... And no margin of error left for Health. Gotta think some more.
@Naron, can the twins moderate a synch-spell (twinned Scorching Sunlight) once it goes through Guardian's intercept? Would that attack even be Intercepted as a single whole? And for that matter, can she even intercept our Baleful Eclipse with its frankly weird "does not actually exist until it hits the target" mechanic?
We both have Godlike Strength so it cancels out, Overwhelm is guaranteed to apply, and at current level we have 28.5 (42.8) k damage. Even assuming we get our damage halved (see Brave Heart), we're still looking at the damage of... ~40k against ~55k... Unless we raise Moon Scepter level. Which we should. Next level would be fine.
I meant that the act of performing an improvised attack (throwing our weapon) might suppress one of those abilities and/or reduce our damage. Really not sure on this.
If it does though, it's a big reduction to our power.
@Naron, can the twins moderate a synch-spell (twinned Scorching Sunlight) once it goes through Guardian's intercept? Would that attack even be Intercepted as a single whole? And for that matter, can she even intercept our Baleful Eclipse with its frankly weird "does not actually exist until it hits the target" mechanic?
Let's see. Guardian has 400'000 HP, or 4'000 Burn damage.
Twinned Scorching Sunlight at 12 has (81920+Dice+500 Rebalanced Existence)x6=495k expected damage, and at 13 it has double that, so 890k expected damage, great enough to strike down Guardian.
Clarification:
We attack one of them. Guardian intercepts the attack and wins the conflict. Has First to the Fray been used up?
[] EXP Plan Dazzle Dive
-[] Neverending Sunlight (450 XP)
-[] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-20 (370 XP)
-[] Supernova 3 -> 5 (70 XP)
[] Plan Dazzle Dive
-[] Goals - rapidly close distance with Rogue, without letting Guardian interfere. Do not get killed. Disable Rogue - and fast. Do not get caught.
-[] Moon forces Guardian to use up First to the Fray by throwing her scepter at Guardian
-[] Sun and Moon dive towards Rogue, keeping level with each other. One of them(most likely Sun) uses Supernova to Dazzle Rogue and Guardian as soon as feasible
-[] Try to abuse their blindness to gang up on Rogue.
--[] A pointblank Scorching Sunlight synced from both of them should hurt.
Our best advantage against them is our teamwork, so let's disrupt theirs and leverage ours.
They will have a much harder time coordinating if they can't see.
Though it won't be quite as effective as the first time, blind is still blind and Guardian shouldn't be able to intercept an attack she can't see and isn't aimed at her.
Supernova is upgraded for hope of a decent Lvl5 milestone, but it should work without it. Dazzle->Blind would make me ecstatic. Detonate->Collateral Damage will still be nice, because it might disturb the setup Rogue is making.
If this goes as planned, Rogue has 80k-120k spell damage incoming. Comments?
I meant that the act of performing an improvised attack (throwing our weapon) might suppress one of those abilities and/or reduce our damage. Really not sure on this.
Well, most obvious comment is that as is, it kills Rogue without having a spell slot remaining for that turn. That is easily fixed by simply replacing the sync with Radiant Shine Unbroken + Ordnance.
The other comment I have is "what happens if Guardian Intercepts the cast of Supernova or manages to Intercept our spell targeting Rogue even when her vision is impaired?".
Well, most obvious comment is that as is, it kills Rogue without having a spell slot remaining for that turn. That is easily fixed by simply replacing the sync with Radiant Shine Unbroken + Ordnance.
The other comment I have is "what happens if Guardian Intercepts the cast of Supernova or manages to Intercept our spell targeting Rogue even when her vision is impaired?".
Our best advantage against them is our teamwork, so let's disrupt theirs and leverage ours.
They will have a much harder time coordinating if they can't see.
Though it won't be quite as effective as the first time, blind is still blind and Guardian shouldn't be able to intercept an attack she can't see and isn't aimed at her.
Supernova is upgraded for hope of a decent Lvl5 milestone, but it should work without it. Dazzle->Blind would make me ecstatic. Detonate->Collateral Damage will still be nice, because it might disturb the setup Rogue is making.
If this goes as planned, Rogue has 80k-120k spell damage incoming. Comments?
Rogue might Dodge - she got us by merely hearing us, and we cast spells verbally.
Rogue might have a damage negator or reducer, or a save-from-death.
We don't really have enough damage potential in this plan to take advantage of it all. I mean, I will probably be remaking my own plan, but this one I like even less than Full Power one.
Finally, its consequences block off our ability to synch-spell-hit Guardian. With Sun (the one with the current weaker weapon damage) being the one more likely to lose it if your plan works out.
So. Once more from the top.
Veil 19 - necessary to survive more than a single hit from Rogue. 180 XP
Moon Scepter 19 - necessary to overcome Guardian in melee (60k max damage vs 45670+22835+0+11250=79755 min damage)
Moon Scepter 20 - necessary to match Rogue in melee (315k max damage vs 73072+36536+91340+112500=313448 min damage)
Moon Scepter 21 - necessary to overcome Rogue in melee
Scorching Sunlight 12 - Ordnance gives chance to kill Guardian with synched spell damage (81920+32768+500)x6=691128 Damage
Scorching Sunlight 13 - necessary to overcome Guardian with synched spell damage without Ordnance
[X] EXP Plan Moon Scepter Power, YOLO Lite Edition
-[X] Moonlight Scepter 18-21 (570/900, 330 Remaining)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-19 (180/330, 150 Remaining)
[X] Plan Sky Dive, YOLO Lite Edition
-[X] Goals - rapidly close distance with Rogue, without letting Guardian interfere. Do not get killed. Disable Rogue - and fast. Do not get caught.
-[X] Sun and Moon dive towards Rogue, keeping level with each other. Moon uses her Scepter to block kunai even as she is pulling Sun along. Do not be knocked off course by Shuriken.
-[X] Moon casts Scorching Sunlight at the Guardian, Sun follows up just a moment later with a Scorching Sunlight to Rogue - try not to kill her outright, though.
-[X] As they have closed the distance, Sun separates and watches out for the Guardian.
-[X] As much as possible, Moon's goal is to intercept kunai strikes and land telling blows on Rogue in the process, with the aim of disabling. Don't let her deflect your strikes.
-[X] Commit to melee with Moon, we need Rogue dealt with decisively (but not lethally). Avoid moving to areas covered by Kunais if possible, it might be a trap - ninja use wire, right?
-[X] Once Rogue is dealt with, deal with Guardian. FIRST, move so you aren't lined up with Rogue, just in case Guardian has an Excaliblast. After that, have Moon engage her in melee, but be ready to dodge her spells. Sun is on healing duty.
[X] Plan Sky Dive, Sunlight Edition
-[X] Goals - rapidly close distance with Guardian. Do not get killed. Disable Guardian - and fast. Do not get caught.
-[X] Moon dives towards Guardian, and throws her Scepter at Guardian with all her might, before Return-ing it. Avoid or block (Intercept (false)) counter-fire from Rogue. Do not be knocked off course by Shuriken.
-[X] Once Moon is in melee range, Sun uses Radiant Shine Unbroken to blast Guardian with Scorching Sunlight, synchronized with Moon's own melee strike.
-[X] If Guardian is still active, knock her out by Moon in melee.
Damage calculations:
1) Thrown Scepter 20 (-25% damage, same as here) does 91340+11250+500=103090 Damage in its Intercept Conflict with Guardian, and wins with a margin of 43-58k. First to the Fray makes it negligible, but it is a decisive victory nonetheless. Similarly (see above) it can be reasonably expected to protect Moon from Rogue, unless she Shurikens us.
2) Ordnance'd Radiance'd Scorching Sunlight 13 deals 459'752 Damage, enough to knock off most of Guardian's HP in a single hit. This is mitigated by Guardian blocking it, and by her Resilience which is still 386k damage.
3) Scepter that is not thrown, deals 121358 damage in Intercept Conflict, and around 90'000 damage afterwards, Guardian's Resilience notwithstanding (76k or so).
4) Scepter+Sunlight=enough damage to drop Guardian.
EXP:
Scorching Sunlight 10->14
Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18->20
(830 EXP used)
Plan:
Moon throws Scepter at Guardian. Either does negligible damage to Guardian or Moon takes tiny amount of damage from losing an Intercept.
As an immediate followup, using our better teamwork, Sun fires a Scorching Sunlight at Guardian (327,680 Base Damage) with Radiant Shine Unbroken.
Then use the 753k HP that Moon has, Intercepts (either reduces the damage Rogue deals or burns some of her APT negating us), and Dodges to survive the rest of the turn.
Just a few strategy-ideas from me:
Why not try using Supernove to blind them when they rush at us? That would give us some sort of surprise, because that way it is more likely that they cant evade this or they close their eyes, which gaves us an advantage (at least within intercept and dmg-strings).
Or destroying whatever Rouge is planning, in the way of crushing the walls where her Kunai´s are as an example.
We could even destroy a building which seperates Guardian and Rouge, so that Guardian cant intercept us if we attack Rouge.
We can even pretend that our spells didnt get stronger and use that as bait and/or false information. And then if we can crate a suitable situation we can use our full power if they last expect it and they dont have that many chances/possibilitys to react and defend themselves. (More so if we synchronize our spells and when they get cocky or think they have already won.)
We can even try to influence them into mistakes, which should be relative easy because they are us and therefore it shouldnt be that difficult. Because no one knows our personal flaws better than us normally.
Just a few strategy-ideas from me:
Why not try using Supernove to blind them when they rush at us? That would give us some sort of surprise, because that way it is more likely that they cant evade this or they close their eyes, which gaves us an advantage (at least within intercept and dmg-strings).
Or destroying whatever Rouge is planning, in the way of crushing the walls where her Kunai´s are as an example.
We could even destroy a building which seperates Guardian and Rouge, so that Guardian cant intercept us if we attack Rouge.
We can even pretend that our spells didnt get stronger and use that as bait and/or false information. And then if we can crate a suitable situation we can use our full power if they last expect it and they dont have that many chances/possibilitys to react and defend themselves. (More so if we synchronize our spells and when they get cocky or think they have already won.)
We can even try to influence them into mistakes, which should be relative easy because they are us and therefore it shouldnt be that difficult. Because no one knows our personal flaws better than us normally.
Blinding might be possible, I'll think about it. But it's likely to affect only the one we're attacking and not both. And with other spells it might deplete our spells for the turn.
Destroying walls means getting close to those kunais, probably. Best avoid that area altogether.
There's a building separating Guardian and Rogue?
Feinting with spell damage is possible but probably risky unless we cast two Sunlights in the same turn due to their patience ending. Honestly, I'd rather make the first one count.
As for making them make mistakes, it's a double-edged sword at best. Also unless Naron can write it himself from vague directions I just don't have any good idea on how to write that. My bad.
On the note of the previous update - I'd say BWA, Flight and Veil were the correct options to take. Raising Scepter however was of relatively little (70k hp) consequence.
Finally, if we're raising Scepter to 20, like in my Sky Dive Sunlight Edition, a tricky idea might be to let Rico's melee attacks push through our damage, but only just. With our no-sell at 18000, and her Magic Modifier at 15000, we can safely tank it - and it will not discourage her letting us block her hits as much as us winning the Intercept Conflict outright. The damage is very close either way, 300-315k vs 313k.
On the topic of things they do not know that will hurt them.
We have All is Equal, Otherworldly Radiance and Mistress of the Tide unrevealed.
We have Synch-damage, Skill and Adroit Dodge unrevealed.
Hmm.
An unexpected option might be to go for 14 in both Sunlight and Moonlight - with 327680x2=655360 damage and 73690x2=147380 healing, we can probably drop Guardian's defense, burn through all her defenses, and leave her dying. Except it costs 920...
Hmm. Eclipse 14 is 134115, and Juggernaut, so the counter is 45-60k, or goes through even on lvl 13.
New Plan.
Neverending Sunlight (450), Neverending Moonlight (450):
Blast Scorching Sunlight at both opponents simultaneously, then spam Baleful Eclipse at Rogue. With her 60k health one Baleful Eclipse is all we need. And we test her dodging reflexes with that first Scorching Sunlight, too.
We only need to survive the retaliation (keep Moon hugging Sun from behind, blocking kunais and letting Black Star through).
P.S. Figured out that Guardian with her "40m effective health vs first strike" is a nuke-proof girl.
Btw your part where you write dont get killed doesnt make any sense. If our actions are resulting in death then it is that way, otherwise we could just write: "Fight them and do not get killed and win in the end."
The same with: dont get pushed away.
Just wanted to point that out.
And i meant to bring them in such a position and we doesnt necessarily need to get close to these walls. Moon can throw her scepter or they use a spell. Besides that they were just suggestions of what we could do anyway.
Still saying that we need Heal and defense or we will have problems surviving, after that scepter and our general dmg or maybe even somthing like omni-caster.
Still saying that we need Heal and defense or we will have problems surviving, after that scepter and our general dmg or maybe even somthing like omni-caster.
My suggestions are in that order and after buying defense and heal we try to survive another 1-2 rounds while preparing and than we can buff our dmg. In other words they include that form of planning.
My suggestions are in that order and after buying defense and heal we try to survive another 1-2 rounds while preparing and than we can buff our dmg. In other words they include that form of planning.
I really don't think trying to stall for time is a good idea. Our opponents haven't started using their spells yet, and Rogue has clearly been setting up some kind of scheme, so I get the feeling we're in for bad times unless we drop at least one of them before shit hits the fan.
I really don't think trying to stall for time is a good idea. Our opponents haven't started using their spells yet, and Rogue has clearly been setting up some kind of scheme, so I get the feeling we're in for bad times unless we drop at least one of them before shit hits the fan.
The prob is that without it we will drop within the next few rounds. even more so if we dont use our spells to heal ourselfs. Moon is already nearly half life enother 2 rounds without level up one of this 2 options is clearly death or can lead to it far to easely. Both will help us to clearly survive at least a few hits.
Raging shine could maybe help with more HP and without the heal. if it does buff our power enough.
The prob is that without it we will drop within the next few rounds. even more so if we dont use our spells to heal ourselfs. Moon is already nearly half life enother 2 rounds without level up one of this 2 options is clearly death or can lead to it far to easely. Both will help us to clearly survive at least a few hits.
Raging shine could maybe help with more HP and without the heal. if it does buff our power enough.
That's the reason why the most recent plan concept I posted was designed around getting two more levels in Veil of the Lunar Goddess plus four levels in Scorching Sunlight.
Get some HP to better survive and get enough spell damage to oneshot Guardian through her intercept (without a sync) without being at risk of Rogue trolling via skill negation.
*Pondering*
You know, the one Ability I would have loved Sun to have is a copy of Magical Girl Sixth Heaven's ability to substitute a basic attack with throwing a ball of fire (launching a beam of light).
Question - what kind of spell is it that has Base Damage, Base Resilience, no Health and no Magic Modifier, and EXACTLY ONE Ability? Boost-Self? Or is there anything else?
Mind you, it would probably have had at least Stat Explosion if it was as powerful as Solar Excellence of Solar Radiance.
Also, may or may not be the trigger for that secondary boost of Legendary Skill.
On a different note. Currently, Moon can go into melee with Guardian, her 55566 total damage may or may not lose against 45-60k total damage, but whether she wins or loses, the damage is too low to hit through resilience/no-sell on either side.
=LINE BREAK=
Fundamentally, there's five possible plans - overcome Guardian in melee, overcome Rogue in melee, overcome Guardian with spell fire, and overcome Rogue with spell fire. Or, we can run some more.
1) Guardian, Melee - with Veil 20 (750k max health, 640k current health), Moon Scepter 20 and Sun Scepter 16 (average unified damage 430k) we can take advantage of Superior Discipline to hit Guardian for 510+k post-Intercept damage. If we really want to overcome them, Moon Scepter 21 and Veil 19.
The narrow parts are wire traps in our way and Rogue knocking us or our attacks off course with Black Star and/or Legendary Skill.
The good part is Moon can block Rogue's attacks and tank all 4 Black Star attacks.
2) Rogue, Melee - Veil 19, Moon Scepter 21 - narrow parts are much the same except now we're heading right for their source.
3) Guardian, Ranged - requires a boost to Scorching Sunlight. And probably a Neverending. Others have good plans for this. May be mixed up with melee by Moon.
4) Rogue, Ranged - best used with Eclipse spell and both Neverendings. But runs into the problem of retaliation and possible defenses, such as Dodge, save-from-death, etc. Also leaves us squishy.
5) Veil 21 and Moonlight 13, apply liberally on wounds. Except we cannot run forever and will have to fight eventually. Still, Veil 21 (1.2m max health) and Moonlight 13 (minimum 82k heal per cast, if number of beams goes down to 2) gives us some chance of survival. We can also dodge and block.
That said, here's my FINAL plan. We defeat them in detail, in melee.
[X] EXP Plan Moon Scepter Power, Rush Edition
-[X] Moonlight Scepter 18-21 (570/900, 330 Remaining)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-19 (180/330, 150 Remaining)
-[X] Primordial Sun - Flight 4-7 (150/150, 0 Remaining)
[X] Plan Sky Dive, Rush Edition
-[X] Goals - rapidly close distance with Guardian, disable her with synchronized strike, then deal with Rogue
-[X] Both Sun and Moon dive towards Guardian. If necessary, Moon pulls Sun along with her greater speed
-[X] Sun uses her Scorching Sunlight to drop Guardian's defense, while Moon casts Supernova to dazzle Guardian. Avoid or block (Intercept (false)) possible counter-fire from Rogue. Do not be knocked off course by Shuriken.
-[X] Once Sun and Moon are in melee range, they commence a synchronized attack on Guardian. If it lands true, Sun rises to achieve height advantage on Rogue.
-[X] If Guardian is still active, knock her out by Moon in melee.
-[X] Once Guardian is knocked out, change your attention to Rogue. If she's rushing at you or is already in melee, Intercept her attacks with Moon and break through her guard.
-[X] If Rogue is stronger than anticipated and breaks through Moon's guard, cast Supernova and disengage. As a parting shot, Baleful Eclipse or Scorching Sunlight her as you're relocating, then devote your time to healing.
@Naron, is the following mostly correct?
Damage: 183k on Moon (with Overwhelm), ~25k x2 on Sun (with RSU), is 233k unified damage, or 466k synchronized damage.
Intercept: Due to Moon being involved in the Intercept, Guardian lacks benefits of Godlike Strength, and Intercepts our synchronized attack with damage ~50-60k, and loses.
Post-Intercept: Due to both Sun and Moon having Superior Discipline, it comes along for the ride and gives us ~600k post-Intercept damage, well above what Guardian has.
Adhoc vote count started by Faraway-R on Jun 10, 2018 at 3:36 AM, finished with 70 posts and 1 votes.
[X] EXP Plan Moon Scepter Power, Rush Edition
-[X] Moonlight Scepter 18-21 (570/900, 330 Remaining)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-19 (180/330, 150 Remaining)
-[X] Primordial Sun - Flight 4-7 (150/150, 0 Remaining)
[X] Plan Sky Dive, Rush Edition
-[X] Goals - rapidly close distance with Guardian, disable her with synchronized strike, then deal with Rogue
-[X] Both Sun and Moon dive towards Guardian. If necessary, Moon pulls Sun along with her greater speed
-[X] Sun uses her Scorching Sunlight to drop Guardian's defense, while Moon casts Supernova to dazzle Guardian. Avoid or block (Intercept (false)) possible counter-fire from Rogue. Do not be knocked off course by Shuriken.
-[X] Once Sun and Moon are in melee range, they commence a synchronized attack on Guardian. If it lands true, Sun rises to achieve height advantage on Rogue.
-[X] If Guardian is still active, knock her out by Moon in melee.
-[X] Once Guardian is knocked out, change your attention to Rogue. If she's rushing at you or is already in melee, Intercept her attacks with Moon and break through her guard.
-[X] If Rogue is stronger than anticipated and breaks through Moon's guard, cast Supernova and disengage. As a parting shot, Baleful Eclipse or Scorching Sunlight her as you're relocating, then devote your time to healing.
