Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition

brmj said:

Sorry, but could you clarify exactly what this board is for? Are we making our next tank, or looking at improvements to the W-2 to be more resistant to the countermeasures? I suspect the former, but it isn't 100% clear.

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You are coming up with an Infantry Tank that can break through the lines reliably.

Our choices:
[] Abbot Marchevion: A Bohemian national who emigrated after a scandal in the Werser crowns forced him from home, this man is rumored to be an intelligence expert and Lithuanian sympathizer.
A spy! Useful when some manufacturer decides to try to pull what Thryssen did, but I don't feel he'll be useful in choosing a new design outside of maybe making sure manufacturers never get a chance to do so.

[] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
If we're making a tank to work with the infantry in running trench assaults, then an infantry officer experienced in the process has merit. He probably doesn't know as much about tank design itself, however.

[] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
This is pretty valuable considering the issue we're to solve is heavily tied to exceptionally difficult terrain, that being trenches.

[] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
Not the most relevant, as we're doing tanks, not trains, but there is some commonality. The core issue, however, is one he'll have very little experience with, as trains don't really need to worry about terrain.

[] Frederick Kowolski: An older gentleman in the electronics industry, Frederick has dozens of underlings who are happy to tell you all about how to make an electro-mechanical doohickymabober work.
I don't really expect us to have much electronics in our designed vehicle outside of very maybe radio and weapon mounting traversal systems, though those should be light enough at this time that they won't be terribly necessary.

[] Conrad Fenrus: A cavalry commander with the 1/4 "Schlangenesser" regiment, this officer is incredibly familiar what little exists of breakthrough tactics in this dayand age on the open plains of the West Irromedes.
Useful, but not super topical for the intended purpose.

[] Halbricht Udst: A Seebatalion officer injured during the Raid at Dervonport, Udst has been involved in some of the thickest fighting in the war, including a short stint "volunteering" with the Weser Crown Seebatalions.
See Fenrus, same deal.

[] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
Valuable in keeping the vehicle we request manufacturable in a reasonably expedient manner.

[] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
While his work is not quite the work we want these tanks for, his experience with tanks in general should be valuable.

[] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
Accountant and PR - Both valuable, but rather particular in their use so far.

Considering all of these, I reccomend:
[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.

Eberhart and Folgers for their experience with the relevant field, Ledwinka and Adler for design particulars, and Gotha and Lotanja to make sure we can actually make enough of them and to ease adoption.
EDIT: Edited to add Adler, as I changed to assume 6 people rather than 5.

Do we get 5 or 6?

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.

That radio engineer, though, could have been useful - tank-based Forward Observers for artillery would have been good.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.

Chronologist said:

I'm not sure I really want Kowolski, electronics seem... Not useful?

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I am mostly inclined to agree at this stage, but have a thought: there were apparently a couple attempts at petrol-electric transmissions in tanks in WWI. I can't comment on how well they worked, but if nothing else that gives you a ton of torque and removes all the transmission-related mechanical complexity. I would think we could do worse. This also incidentally gives us electrical power to use for everything from weapon traversal to search lights or radio equipment or whatever else you could find a use for or build a derived vehicle around. Not sure how feasible this is, since we're a decade early, but I thought I'd bring it up.

Edit: fuck it. Let's see what he has to offer.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
[X] Frederick Kowolski: An older gentleman in the electronics industry, Frederick has dozens of underlings who are happy to tell you all about how to make an electro-mechanical doohickymabober work.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.

brmj said:

I am mostly inclined to agree at this stage, but have a thought: there were apparently a couple attempts at petrol-electric transmissions in tanks in WWI. I can't comment on how well they worked, but if nothing else that gives you a ton of torque and removes all the transmission-related mechanical complexity. I would think we could do worse. This also incidentally gives us electrical power to use for everything from weapon traversal to search lights or radio equipment or whatever else you could find a use for or build a derived vehicle around. Not sure how feasible this is, since we're a decade early, but I thought I'd bring it up.

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Yeah, might as well. Gotha isn't a must-have for me, although I do feel like we owe him one.

Maybe they'll work out something like they had in some Soviet tanks, where you communicate via light panel.

[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
[X] Frederick Kowolski: An older gentleman in the electronics industry, Frederick has dozens of underlings who are happy to tell you all about how to make an electro-mechanical doohickymabober work
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.

[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
[X] Frederick Kowolski: An older gentleman in the electronics industry, Frederick has dozens of underlings who are happy to tell you all about how to make an electro-mechanical doohickymabober work.
[X] Mosten Gotha: An ex-representative from Thryssen, Gotha is an industrial expert and is most likely be the person most likely to know how much of what you can build. Post-Thryssen, he's been working with the unions, seeing what the tempo of the factories is.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.

[X] Magnus von Eberhart: An infantry officer from 3/7 Luneberg, Magnus has experience in assaulting trenches and holding positions.
[X] Hans Ledwinka: A mechanic and suspensions expert, Hans knows how to keep what he builds off the ground, no matter what the ground is doing at the time.
[X] Karl Adler: A weapons designer and structural engineer borrowed from Skoda Werke, Karl has been working so far on trains and train repair systems.
[X] Leutnat Erich Folgers: A young and somewhat distinguished armor platoon commander, Erich was involved in the retaking of Marienburg.
[X] Erome Lotanja: A young man from la Merezude, Erome is a fop at first glance, but a closer investigation reveals a sharp fiscal mind and unnervingly steady hand at playing the public confidences.
[X] Frederick Kowolski: An older gentleman in the electronics industry, Frederick has dozens of underlings who are happy to tell you all about how to make an electro-mechanical doohickymabober work.

VOTES CALLED

So yeah, a few explinatory images for y'all.

The Draft Laws



The state of the Treasury



Your Staff



Your Secretary

This plan was developed by on the discord by @Michael Lewis, @Winged_One² and I, with the compartmentalization clause lifted from @NothingNow and his plan:
[X] Plan Gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz mit Leichtes Infanteriegeschütz
--[X] Can keep up with infantry.
--[X] Proof against any enemy infantry weapon from any angle at ranges of greater than 75m
--[X] Can traverse any trench in use by the enemy.
--[X] Armed with a gun of at least 55mm caliber.
--[X] The ability to fend off aircraft is encouraged, but not required.
--[X] Capable of being transported by a railway without significant disassembly, and if possible on standard carriages.
--[X] Capable of driving at least 30 miles without extensive maintenance.
--[X] Main armament must be able to cover at least 270 degrees without turning the vehicle.
--[X] Forward armor and that of the main armament must be capable of resisting anti-tank rifle fire.
--[X] The use of equipment in use or soon to be elsewhere in the army is encouraged.
--[x] Compartmentalization should be used for both damage control and quality of life reasons.
---[x] At a minimum the tank should have transverse bulkheads separating the engine room from the fighting sections, as well as adequate protection for the ammunition and fuel to prevent a fire.

[X] Plan Gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz mit Leichtes Infanteriegeschütz

---[x] This may be achieved through multiple mounts or weapons of the same caliber.

[X] Plan Landships

NothingNow said:

[X] Plan Landships
--[X] Can keep up with infantry.
--[X] Proof against any enemy infantry weapon from any angle at ranges of greater than 75m
--[X] Can traverse any trench in use by the enemy.
--[X] Armed with a gun of at least 55mm caliber.
--[X] The ability to fend off aircraft is encouraged, but not required.
--[X] Capable of driving at least 30 miles without extensive maintenance or track repair.
--[X] Main armament must be able to cover at least 270 degrees without turning the vehicle.​

---[x] This may be achieved through multiple mounts or weapons of the same caliber.

--[X] Forward armor and that of the main armament must be capable of resisting anti-tank rifle fire.
--[X] The use of equipment in use or soon to be elsewhere in the army is required.
--[x] Compartmentalization should be used for both damage control and quality of life reasons.
---[x] At a minimum the tank should have transverse bulkheads separating the engine room from the fighting sections, as well as adequate protection for the ammunition and fuel to prevent a fire.
---[x] Adequate hatches should be provided to allow the crew to easily escape the vehicle or pick up a stranded crew.
--[x] Provision should be made to carry a minimum of one dozen messenger pigeons.​

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While I approve of your compartmentalization addition, why the hell does this tank need a bloody pigeon bank? That seems like something pretty far from practical needs, as it'll be acting in conjunction with a significant infantry group, who almost certainly have one of their own. Also, your note on the main armament angle restrictions seems unnecessary to me as the original plan does not restrict that - in fact, your clause would probably be taken by designers to mean you expect a sponson or similar arrangement.

[X] Plan Gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz mit Leichtes Infanteriegeschütz

TortugaGreen said:

While I approve of your compartmentalization addition, why the hell does this tank need a bloody pigeon bank? That seems like something pretty far from practical needs, as it'll be acting in conjunction with a significant infantry group, who almost certainly have one of their own.

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That can't be taken for granted, and having some ability to communicate with headquarters or the artillery is still important for a tank to do on its own. Also, it's like a dozen cardboard tubes. It's not a big space imposition.

NothingNow said:

That can't be taken for granted, and having some ability to communicate with headquarters or the artillery is still important for a tank to do on its own. Also, it's like a dozen cardboard tubes. It's not a big space imposition.

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It may not be terribly difficult as an addition, but I worry that trying to operate pigeon communication out of a moving metal box that's being shot at near-constantly seems like it'd be unreliable at best. And besides, this is an infantry support tank. If it's acting independently, something has gone very wrong.
Also, be aware @No7sHere I am revising the plan to include a compartmentalization clause. I have already conferred with Michael Lewis on this, but I felt you should know.

[X] Plan Gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette für Sturmgeschütz mit Leichtes Infanteriegeschütz

[X] Plan Landships