I'm not sure what this actually means. We're not Speaking in front of Kendl; we're providing a theme, a framework, on which Amanda will be building her diplomacy check:
It doesn't require Speaking; as you said, we are providing a theme.

Insight pushes/prompts them to LOOK at themselves, or at least their motives, with at least some of the usual self-deceptions stripped away.

To get them to take a hard look at what's keeping them from fully committing officially. Especially since it's not the protection from SL depredations that they're deluding themselves it is, not at this stage of diplomatic contact; might have worked if they'd killed themselves off early, but every hour they've been here past the couple of days eliminated that.

Probably stopped being a viable defense after they traded the FTL drives.

I find the argument of Freedom rather unconvincing myself; Hope and an urge for Freedom brought them to the Sol System after all, so it's not like those are emotions they are strangers to, or things they didn't think about. But it's heavily leavened with caution.

And Insight has the reassuring comfort that it looks like beyond the emotions, beyond the openness and idealism, Humanity did a hardheaded calculation of the mathematical odds when they ran the numbers. Which should be a comfort and a reassurance to those members of the G6 not quite so enamored of Hope and Change, and who find pragmatism familiar.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Apr 7, 2018 at 7:59 AM, finished with 11040 posts and 25 votes.
 
@MTB is entirely correct, yes. Not that Insight has ever found an example of this occurring.
On a related note, is it actually possible to draw with a Tribute Fleet? Say, if the attacking fleet is reduced to a single Collector with a busted drive, and the defenders lost their whole fleet but maybe have a couple of orbitals left, what happens next? Do the Shiplords try and bluff, demand "only" a billion individuals so they can fix their ship and go home? Do they just sit around and stare until a Regular Fleet shows up to bail them out? Do they drop a few KKVs on the defending planet out of spite? Or (most likely) do they just suicide?

As for the vote... hmm. Honestly, I've no idea. There are good arguments being made but I'm not swung decisively to any side.

Well... let's go thematically. We obviously want to defeat the Shiplords, but underneath that there's been another desire, which we previously touched on in the SBOS. Namely, to Understand.

[X] Truth
 
[X] Truth

I'm not dropping "Plan full honesty" yet. It's worked well so far.

Also, that conversation with Mary is practically asking for us to continue the shipping :p
 
Ok, first of all, @Snowfire , stahp, you're going to give me diabetes. In other words, I really, really enjoyed the section with Mary and Mandy. I need more examples of good relationships in my life.

Secondly,
[X] Freedom

I think that @TheEyes made some excellent points.
 
And Insight has the reassuring comfort that it looks like beyond the emotions, beyond the openness and idealism, Humanity did a hardheaded calculation of the mathematical odds when they ran the numbers. Which should be a comfort and a reassurance to those members of the G6 not quite so enamored of Hope and Change, and who find pragmatism familiar.
I get that; on the other hand presenting the hardheaded calculations sounds much more like the job of the actual diplomats, the ones who have been quietly discussing the nuts and bolts of what goes where for years. Technical skill and preparedness are indeed wonderful things, and should be left to the thousands of men and women whom we have tasked with doing exactly that for the last 5+ years and are likely even now exchanging information back and forth through other channels with the other members of the Fleet; Kendl and Amanda aren't the only people on or docked with Concordia, after all.

Amanda's role isn't about having the technical insight; she's not part of the group who has been living and breathing that side for the past half decade while she was running the entire planet, so she's not going to know all the fiddly bits that someone like Kendl, with her centuries of political and intrigue experience and years of preparation for this exact role will expect. What Amanda brings to the table is, as Adrianna herself said:
"Isn't it obvious?" She asked in return, a weary determination clear in her eyes. "We need you." Her hands came up quickly. "Not for long. Just the initial contact stages, a few months at most. But there's no one else alive that has the same common support, or knows humanity as well as you do.

"Please, Amanda."
It is in this role that Amanda excels, and has excelled during this conference, greeting the Contact Fleet with a disarming open smile, revealing that she regards Shiplord khaki goo as an infection to be cured, that can be cured, rather than an immediately terminal illness, and being far more open and revealing about what for any other race would be closely held state secrets, especially a race whose only other alien contact was with a series of Shiplord Tribute Fleets.

The flip side of that disarming openness, however, is that we haven't really expressed that we regard the Shiplords as an anathema. Yes, we acted immediately to heal-blast the Shiplord infection out of the three aides, but even that act was rather clinical and doesn't really highlight the heat of the anger that Humanity feels at the very existence of the system that the Shiplords perpetuate. We're sort of a victim of our own success: we have been so diplomatic and so welcoming of strangers, even ones that, I should remind everyone, the Contact Fleet still isn't aware that we knew were coming and would not be hostile, that Kendl might well be concerned that we might be open to making a deal with the Shiplords. After all, even after two Tribute Fleets, one only a few years previous, Humanity is apparently open to making diplomatic overtures with potentially hostile aliens, greeting them with open smiles and showing off wonders and Miracles like they were party favors; who's to say they aren't one Shiplord diplomatic courier away from making an alliance with the oppressors of the galaxy?

That's the mountain we need to climb next, and it's one that only Amanda, designated finger on the pulse of Humanity, can climb.
 
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So on a different end of the Mary and Amanda subject - we probably do need to keep an eye on Mary as again she's stabilized and not recovered.

Just looking at the conversation between the two, Amanda never got around to sealing her point before being interrupted.

So, apart from everything else, I think things have been going pretty well," you said to the image of Mary prowling around your quarters. She looked up at you, eyes flashing dangerously, and you shrugged helplessly. "Mary, she knew. Trying to tell her no wouldn't have helped anything. Y-" you cut off as she gestured sharply.

Mary is very much just as protective of Iris as Mandy it's just that she's a scientist and not a devastating powerful Practioner.

"I know." She said, after a long moment. "But I just wish that sometimes…" she turned away, and you rose to your feet, moving closer regardless of her not actually standing in the room with you. "That sometimes I could protect her as well. I'm," you moved round into her field of view, and shook your head sharply.

Which Mary is fully aware of it looks like.

Mary, you've given her more than I ever could." She looked up, something in her eyes almost daring you to stop, yet begging for you to continue. "That first year and a half when I wasn't able to be there properly, you gave her a life as more than a program. And you didn't need my help with her body. It might have taken you a bit longer to get it all right, but you would've succeeded."

"I," The worry and fear in her eyes had flickered as you'd poured the belief in your words into far more than just that. Now, as you finished, it started to fade. "And you call me the smart one." She chuckled at herself, stopping abruptly at your nod.

"It's the truth." You told her firmly. "Just because," a soft tone cut you off,~

Amanda was not able to finish her reassurance so I'm not sure where she was going but this is something to keep an eye on.

The first paragraph of the last quote does somewhat put into perspective that there is some bits that Iris is probably still fingering as how to weigh.

The worry and fear in her eyes had flickered as you'd poured the belief in your words into far more than just that. Now, as you finished, it started to fade.

But yeah starting to fade fear is different from fading or faded fear.
 
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But if I am to step onto those craft, then I and my government must know to whom they belong. That you came to us each time allowed this to be ignored, for you are our guests. But that doesn't go both ways."
Why? At first I thought this was about "that you have permission to let me onto ALL of the ships to do this" but then further clarification was added and it became "put your species at risk by admitting to be governmental representatives". And my question is "Why is Amanda demanding that?"
 
But yeah starting to fade fear is different from fading or faded fear.
Agreed; at the same time, it's not like Amanda was not going to do this. Amanda knew that Mary's well-being was going to require a special effort since at least Turn 14:
[The Sealed Secrets: 89 + 61 = 150. Greater Success]
Fights between you and Mary are monumentally rare. You can count the number of major disagreements you've had since you met without needing more than your two hands. However, it wasn't shocking in the least when she reacted almost violently to the idea of letting the very knowledge that had brought down the Week of Sorrows free. All your preparations for it are for naught, and you're both guilty of flinging angry words across a room that had only seen its like once before. You try to reach past the icy wall of her certainty, anchored by the pain that you know will never truly leave her, but she knows you too well. Pain and fear flings hate across the room in response, duty driving you onwards against it, and the faint hope of a painless resolution to the situation dies that night.

But it's not the end.
She, and we, have been making that effort a priority ever since, and it's paid off. It's an important consideration, yes, but it's also one that we've known about and have been incorporating into votes for in-game years now.

At the same time, yes, it's important to keep in mind the many different facets of Mary's fears and insecurities, because in many ways, in this world of world-scale megastructures and totally-not-magical-girls upending the galactic stage with exajoule outputs and daily Miracles the most important person in the galaxy, the fulcrum on which the Practice War will turn, is likely Mary and her genius mind/soul. So, what are the fears we've seen so far:
  • Abandonment and loneliness, mitigated by Amanda, her family, the Circles and now Iris.
  • Fears about reopening the Red Tower and its secrets (and Secrets), stemming from lingering survivor's guilt from the Sorrows and the mistaken belief that she / her family were the ones who are responsible, by digging too deep and calling the Shiplords down on humanity.
  • Thoughts of inadequacy, stemming from not being a Potential and thus not having access to Amanda's totally-not-a-Nanoha-Device with which to protect herself and her family.
  • On a meta level, concern that she's taking up too much of Amanda's and Iris's limited time, with them having to deal with her issues rather than the larger scale problems of Humanity's struggle against the Shiplords.
Any others?

Why? At first I thought this was about "that you have permission to let me onto ALL of the ships to do this" but then further clarification was added and it became "put your species at risk by admitting to be governmental representatives". And my question is "Why is Amanda demanding that?"
This all stems from Unknown Potential, where it was revealed that it was possible to take down the Shiplords, but that we'd need a coalition of the largest alien races to do it and it'd still probably be devastating. It is impossible to have an open conversation about how a coalition of the largest groups have a chance to topple the Shiplords when the Contact Fleet are still maintaining the fig leaf fiction that they are some rogue group, unconnected with any larger organization at all.

The more difficult question, I think, is what Kendl is seeing this as: a negotiating ploy to push for more concessions (official government representatives can obviously guarantee and deliver more than some anonymous rogue band of wanderers), an attempt to gather intel for a possible betrayal to the Shiplords (since the Humans have displayed, thus far, a disconcerting level of openness to openly negotiating with unknown, potentially hostile, powers, only a few years off from an alien invasion), or something else?
 
[X]Freedom
Gotta show these aliens that Humanity might be nice but it won't take the Shiplords as a Master, not after what they've done to us.
 
Time for tally!

Vote Tally : Original - Sci-Fi - The Practice War | Page 440 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 10982-11013]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
[9] Freedom
[6] Truth
[3] Insight
Total No. of Voters: 18

I'll close this later on today, or possibly tomorrow. It's still close enough to swing to a draw. Answers to the overnight questions later on.
 
I wonder if we can Practice Alien technology or if the underlying Platonic imagery of the alien souls when they built the tech is too different to properly interface with our floating soul mass.

Something to SCIENCE!
 
So, we now have roughly half the votes coming from one-word, no justification posts, which are somewhat infuriating because I suspect many of them are expecting Amanda to Speak at Kendl in the next update and there's no way that's happening. The vote is for what tack we're taking in the negotiations, and not anything to do with Practice.

Now, exactly what each option is actually referring to is very ambiguous, and I invite @Snowfire to clarify what each choice actually means, but to my view the options amount to:
  • Truth: All about, somewhat ironically, revealing the Project Insight revelations, and using that to leverage Kendl into admitting her group's true affiliations. Very high-risk, high reward, because it amounts to yet again giving away something for free and expecting the Fleet to meet us halfway, but there is a further risk that the Fleet will start to fear associating with us, because this whole "pulling knowledge from the Void" thing sounds like a super-dangerous version of what the Nileans did invading a Shiplord comm node.
  • Insight: Leveraging soft power, trying to pick apart Kendl's motives and motivations to persuade her to agree. Probably wouldn't have worked at all if not for Kendl being off-balance due to her Mending, but is actually possible now that her Soul is less closed off than it has been for the last several centuries. A little bit of a cheap shot, and has a chance to backfire if Kendl remembers her spy training at the wrong moment and reaccts badly to an attempt to manipulate her emotions, but allows us to keep our secrets and not bare our own soul.
  • Freedom: Reveal our own desire for freedom, which as a prerequisite requires the Shiplords to be very, very dead. The most emotionally taxing for Amanda, and risks revealing exactly how raw the emotions still are on Humanity/Amanda's side regarding the Shiplords; on the other hand I think this is a side of Humanity that needs to be revealed, and the fact that it hasn't yet been may be making the Nileans and the rest of the Contact Fleet suspicious.
 
  • Freedom: Reveal our own desire for freedom, which as a prerequisite requires the Shiplords to be very, very dead. The most emotionally taxing for Amanda, and risks revealing exactly how raw the emotions still are on Humanity/Amanda's side regarding the Shiplords; on the other hand I think this is a side of Humanity that needs to be revealed, and the fact that it hasn't yet been may be making the Nileans and the rest of the Contact Fleet suspicious.
While I may not have justified it as such, this is precisely why I voted for Freedom. I want them to see that we care. So far, we've practically been the mysterious ancestral race; I want to demonstrate that we have skin in the game, here, as while logically they may know that, the emotions haven't exactly been on display.
 
I wonder if we can Practice Alien technology or if the underlying Platonic imagery of the alien souls when they built the tech is too different to properly interface with our floating soul mass.

Something to SCIENCE!
We'll be looking into exactly that next year when we hand the emitter over to Mary (my preference would be for Amanda to get permission to do so on bended knee with a ring box :V) and have her go to town.
 
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Insight: Leveraging soft power, trying to pick apart Kendl's motives and motivations to persuade her to agree. Probably wouldn't have worked at all if not for Kendl being off-balance due to her Mending, but is actually possible now that her Soul is less closed off than it has been for the last several centuries. A little bit of a cheap shot, and has a chance to backfire if Kendl remembers her spy training at the wrong moment and reaccts badly to an attempt to manipulate her emotions, but allows us to keep our secrets and not bare our own soul.
Clarification would be nice, because Insight could include sharing insights.
 
Clarification would be nice, because Insight could include sharing insights.
That was my first thought too, but the connotations of the word Insight imply intuitive understandings rather than the analysis or dissemination of facts, which is much more a facet of Truth. Like I said, these options are very ambiguous.
 
That was my first thought too, but the connotations of the word Insight imply intuitive understandings rather than the analysis or dissemination of facts, which is much more a facet of Truth. Like I said, these options are very ambiguous.
... that could be on purpose, with Snowfire looking at the discussion to come up with a (widened) interpretation.
 
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