-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Option evaluation:
[ ] Spend a Beyond Point
To spend or not to spend? I'm leaning towards spending, and not just because it improves the Quickness modifier. Potentiation works on all of our non-Grand spells. This includes Greater Refining and will also let us teleport around better.
[ ] +1 Mastermind Point (reduced from +2 due to strenuous training last timeskip, removes Mastermind Debt)
Going from -1 to +1 Mastermind points is 2 Mastermind points, thus a free Beyond point.
[ ] Master Kleinvarr's Greater Refining
A time saver in the long run. May also be good for funds if we refine cheap materials. Synergy with Potentiation?
[ ] A Fierce Migration
Better treasure, more danger. I'm not sure if we can handle Reality-Forming strength combat right now. 100% Potentiation-boosted Mordant Fire should be able to hurt them a little, though. Needs Beyond point in Potentiation. Are beasts strong enough to try to destroy our body entirely? If not, we can tank them.
[ ] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
This is quite a significant boost for Ming. Hitting 0.75 Stages above her level is better than Loyaltybro's initial benefit. Also boosts loyalty, which is good for a Second.
[ ] Seek Cultivation Materials
Improves minions and gives us materials, which will probably become a bottleneck later for artifact creation and Cultivation.
[ ] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
Doomed Liches are going extinct soon. Probably safe too as we are immune to Diagram magic. Our lackeys aren't, unfortunately. Risks damage to their Cultivation base if they know Mordant Fire.
[ ] Hunt Forbidden Cultivators [Suizhen Loyalty+]
This sounds like the kind of knowledge we could get by asking Mother.
[ ] Spend a Beyond Point
To spend or not to spend? I'm leaning towards spending, and not just because it improves the Quickness modifier. Potentiation works on all of our non-Grand spells. This includes Greater Refining and will also let us teleport around better.
[ ] +1 Mastermind Point (reduced from +2 due to strenuous training last timeskip, removes Mastermind Debt)
Going from -1 to +1 Mastermind points is 2 Mastermind points, thus a free Beyond point.
[ ] Master Kleinvarr's Greater Refining
A time saver in the long run. May also be good for funds if we refine cheap materials. Synergy with Potentiation?
[ ] A Fierce Migration
Better treasure, more danger. I'm not sure if we can handle Reality-Forming strength combat right now. 100% Potentiation-boosted Mordant Fire should be able to hurt them a little, though. Needs Beyond point in Potentiation. Are beasts strong enough to try to destroy our body entirely? If not, we can tank them.
[ ] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
This is quite a significant boost for Ming. Hitting 0.75 Stages above her level is better than Loyaltybro's initial benefit. Also boosts loyalty, which is good for a Second.
[ ] Seek Cultivation Materials
Improves minions and gives us materials, which will probably become a bottleneck later for artifact creation and Cultivation.
[ ] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
Doomed Liches are going extinct soon. Probably safe too as we are immune to Diagram magic. Our lackeys aren't, unfortunately. Risks damage to their Cultivation base if they know Mordant Fire.
[ ] Hunt Forbidden Cultivators [Suizhen Loyalty+]
This sounds like the kind of knowledge we could get by asking Mother.
Rihaku
The Internet
To clarify - the Forbidden Techniques you can acquire from hostile Cultivators may make it possible for you to ingest poisonous materials safely. Combined with a Mastered and Beyonded Refining, you could potentially experience explosive Cultivation gains from the poisonous but power-infused flora in this region!
- Location
- United States
[X] Spend a Beyond Point
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
- Location
- Where am I?
I missed the previous vote, would've preferred to go challenge the legacy of Vane but tbh this is good too- IF we take advantage of its main characteristic.
LICHES BABY. It says if we dedicate our attention to it we can trade spells. This is a very safe option a) we have the ring to negate offensive diagrams and b) we are actually decently strong. We can punch through stuff now.
Remember, at least half the advantage of the ring is the liches it gives us as a resource. We can collect cultivation materials later, we are already pretty fast!! More importantly, we will be going into the Kong jungle as part of Suizen's arc. So no worries finding glorious animals to kill. Just wait a bit.
My reasoning for withholding the bp is that we will be getting spells/ascendant signs from the liches. So we will want to save bp for magnifying them. Don't spend all your cash before going shopping. Or we could go for truth LUL.
My argument against bp on our refining spell is that it's a very selfish use of no. It magnifies toxicity. Only we can deal with that. So rather then magnify everything with potentiation (even though at this point we've really hit diminishing returns) or Helping party effectiveness by shoring up weaker members, it's just for our benefit. We can already do very well for ourselves, we don't need this boost. It's wasteful. Save the bop for other uses.
I'm firmly of the opinion to boost our lackeys. Is the option to make Suizen a sword still open? I'd love to do that, especially given that our immunity to diagram makes our lackeys the most important thing to boost.
I'm very worried that going cultivation route with reality forming beasts and buffing our cultivation refining spell will lead to us completely outstripping our lackeys. We will need to delegate in future. No doubt the heroine will have her own mini boss squad. Put resources into them and we will magnify our influence. Also
WOW. We just spread our perfect ego barrier to Xiaoling? Um. Do it. DO IT. This proves that we can aid her beyond others. Takes advantage of her unique Elven heritage. Boosts we artifice ability due to her higher effective stage. Makes up for spoiled proccs. Also, really interested to see what it looks like from th outside. Additionally if we do this (and we SHOULD) we should give Suizen the sword so we can be fair between our lackeys.
I'm so excited to see what she may develop with a perfect ego barrier :O
[X] Don't Spend a Beyond Point -
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost -
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich
LICHES BABY. It says if we dedicate our attention to it we can trade spells. This is a very safe option a) we have the ring to negate offensive diagrams and b) we are actually decently strong. We can punch through stuff now.
Remember, at least half the advantage of the ring is the liches it gives us as a resource. We can collect cultivation materials later, we are already pretty fast!! More importantly, we will be going into the Kong jungle as part of Suizen's arc. So no worries finding glorious animals to kill. Just wait a bit.
My reasoning for withholding the bp is that we will be getting spells/ascendant signs from the liches. So we will want to save bp for magnifying them. Don't spend all your cash before going shopping. Or we could go for truth LUL.
My argument against bp on our refining spell is that it's a very selfish use of no. It magnifies toxicity. Only we can deal with that. So rather then magnify everything with potentiation (even though at this point we've really hit diminishing returns) or Helping party effectiveness by shoring up weaker members, it's just for our benefit. We can already do very well for ourselves, we don't need this boost. It's wasteful. Save the bop for other uses.
I'm firmly of the opinion to boost our lackeys. Is the option to make Suizen a sword still open? I'd love to do that, especially given that our immunity to diagram makes our lackeys the most important thing to boost.
I'm very worried that going cultivation route with reality forming beasts and buffing our cultivation refining spell will lead to us completely outstripping our lackeys. We will need to delegate in future. No doubt the heroine will have her own mini boss squad. Put resources into them and we will magnify our influence. Also
WOW. We just spread our perfect ego barrier to Xiaoling? Um. Do it. DO IT. This proves that we can aid her beyond others. Takes advantage of her unique Elven heritage. Boosts we artifice ability due to her higher effective stage. Makes up for spoiled proccs. Also, really interested to see what it looks like from th outside. Additionally if we do this (and we SHOULD) we should give Suizen the sword so we can be fair between our lackeys.
I'm so excited to see what she may develop with a perfect ego barrier :O
[X] Don't Spend a Beyond Point -
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost -
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich
Last edited:
Where?
A full powered artifact at our stage takes 6 months of objective time even if we have enough cultivation resources to spend them like water. It is not at all clear that making such an artifact would be a good deal. It is also the case that we would start benefiting from spending a beyond point on Potentiation much earlier. Better spells over a period of at least half a year is not at all insignificant.
We can definitely not handle Reality-Forming strength combat right now. We are almost an entire stage away from Reality-Forming combat strength, so such monsters would almost certainly be strong enough to destroy our body entirely.
And Suizhen won't have a problem with us learning their Forbidden Techniques? Plus they won't interfere with our future Alchemist/Philosopher build?
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
How "poisonous" would a material have to be for our lichdom to not let us accept it? Worst case scenario we could cut off a body part and then ingest the material. After most of our body explodes/collapses into goop/spontaneously combusts we can regenerate from the cut off body part fairly quickly.
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
Mastering Kleinvarr's Greater Refining would go well with seeking out Cultivation materials or hunting Forbidden Cultivators, but Xiaoling being neglected and causing problems (possibly attributing our choice of destination to Suizhen's personal issues and taking it out on her) was a significant downside to the Border Zone. But she is a Cultivator, whatever her heritage, and can be appeased with the promise of personal power. Doing this now should ensure that we aren't burning any bridges if we need access to her contacts later, though honestly if we're going to just pick options where having scions of two of the Four Great Clans (technically Kong too, Suizhen's eyes are intimidating and hard to fake, even if she lacks comportment) isn't relevant, we might want to just grab Migration (that chance of a priceless treasure is tempting) or Refining. Even the Mastermind Point is valuable, if we're so intent on spending BP at every opportunity.
Seeking out the Lich Stronghold is something we've intended to do ever since we got the Ring, and was one of the draws of Southern Vane in the first place. They won't be around for much longer; it could be that whatever causes the Migration if that option's taken is bestirring itself, heading in their direction. Some horror from the depths of the Overgrowth, turned south by fortuitous coincidence, or in the worst case Kong himself. I could live with either the lich stronghold or Cultivation materials, but hunting Forbidden Cultivators seems lackluster. We already shored up Suizhen's loyalty by picking this option, and the last thing we need is to further complicate our Cultivation path by trying to incorporate poison manipulation, giving us more balls to juggle. Though with the clarification about this letting us fully exploit the resources in the area, it does become more appealing...
Last edited:
.. did you miss the part where we made two artifacts in four months as minor actions?
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
You honestly don't get it do you? You do not understand why overlords in literally any piece of media has lackies. Not only that, you honestly don't understand the use of having a second, or even third, set of eyes. The stronger our companions, the more they can do, the better for the group synergy wise, and as anyone would know, synergy always beats a single person. Why do you think countries have more than one soldier? Because having more than one person opens up many more opprotunities and capabilities. Think for a moment. With three people of high power and loyalty, we can have them help us in more dangerous situations. We don't have eyes in the back of our head. So let them do the looking.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
My main concern woth spending a BP to improve blood magic is that I think an artifact could do it even better -- for instance, if we get an artifact which lets us replace our blood constantly, we can have all our spells maximally reinforced all the time, regardless of if we've spend the BP or not. I don't think it scales very well. That said, if we aren't going to make an artifact, it's probably worth it for the general buff to our spells.
I think the problem is that the poison would be hard to separate from the useful parts, so if we wanted to cultivate using the material, we'd have to accept the downsides.
That was when we were at a lower Cultivation level, which goes much faster.
No I did not. Those weren't full powered artifacts at our current stage which is what I wrote the time for. It is true that we could make lesser artifact than that in less time.
We can do both. Not having to reduce the blood cost or regenerate our blood faster with an artifact opens up the option of using one on getting an even greater boost to our spells.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
@Rihaku If we choose not to use the Beyond point, can we go and grab ourselves Beyond Organ Refinement?
No? We did one at Peak Ego, and one at Peak Soul. Or was it Mid Soul? Either way, it was a time eater for Seed.
[X] Spend a Beyond Point
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
I still hope we can eventually give her an Artifact to Perfect her Ego Barrier too. It shouldn't take a full stages investment like our own did, since we'll be stronger when we do get to it.
Now, maybe the combination of Migration and seek Cultivation would have better returns, but we know the Liches are time limited, and I really hope they will be able to help us learn the Lunar Sarcophagus. I want that spell. I really want the Moonlight Crown, which we are already capable of making once we have the spell. An extra five years every month, even if we can't apply Quickening to it, should solve most of our problems. Also, they may be able to help us master Klienvar's without spending anything extra on it.
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
I still hope we can eventually give her an Artifact to Perfect her Ego Barrier too. It shouldn't take a full stages investment like our own did, since we'll be stronger when we do get to it.
Now, maybe the combination of Migration and seek Cultivation would have better returns, but we know the Liches are time limited, and I really hope they will be able to help us learn the Lunar Sarcophagus. I want that spell. I really want the Moonlight Crown, which we are already capable of making once we have the spell. An extra five years every month, even if we can't apply Quickening to it, should solve most of our problems. Also, they may be able to help us master Klienvar's without spending anything extra on it.
Mid Soul. Which would have taken several months less than going to Peak.
Ultramandalore
Errant Quester
- Location
- just south of Parts Unknown
[x] Spend a Beyond Point
[x] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[x] Hunt Forbidden Cultivators [Suizhen Loyalty+]
[x] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[x] Hunt Forbidden Cultivators [Suizhen Loyalty+]
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
I just remembered something. We are probably at Low Dao Cleaving in combat strength. Due to our Beyond Ego Barrier +.25 and due to Seed's +.75. So if we drop down to Peak Organ and go Beyond, we won't lose any raw might. Just the spells Low Soul gives, which from the sounds of it, isn't a lot.
- Location
- Where am I?
I'm also quite worried about this, it seems like a perfect setup for a "gain cultivation boost for Suizen's loyalty" dilemma. Don't do it kids. If we stumble across one while hunting for liches, great. If not, why put yourself in such a conflicted position?
Also, every turn we don't search for liches we lose one of the critical advantages of choosing Ring over the other phylacteries. Doom is scary, folks. Poor liches are dying every day, won't you do something to help them on their way?
Also don't you want to meet the wacky undead folk? Where's your sense of cadaventour? Where's the joui de vivre? Get in the spirit of things, don't be such a letdown. I know at this point I'm... digging pretty deep, but I'm just ribbing y'all really. By this stage I just undead all my hard work advocating, but it was worth dying for tbh, getting lich banter is my number one ghoul.
... I just want Nameless to enter an undead dungeon, summon a mic and open with
"WHERE MY LICHES AT???"
"Tough crowd to play I guess. Not very lively."
Last edited:
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Note, most of the bonus choices we get are quite bad synergy wise for the Lich option. The best synergy wise is mastering the spell. Just letting you know that.
Edit:
Congrats. You just completely turned me off of the lich vote.
Kidding, kidding.
Last edited: