DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Rihaku
The Internet
You don't think that Suizhen will be too concerned about a Forbidden Technique that allows 'safe' ingestion of poisonous materials. Spiritual poisons are a danger to all!
If you're afraid of the Reality Forming beasts but still want great benefits from Cultivation Materials, Beyond Tyranshal's + Mastered (+Beyonded) Kleinvarr's is a powerful combo with potential further synergy if/when you get the Vault. Raise mediocre cultivation materials to stupendous quality!
If you're afraid of the Reality Forming beasts but still want great benefits from Cultivation Materials, Beyond Tyranshal's + Mastered (+Beyonded) Kleinvarr's is a powerful combo with potential further synergy if/when you get the Vault. Raise mediocre cultivation materials to stupendous quality!
Enohthree
Hypersane
[X] Spend a Beyond Point
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
Its a single BP for 4 extra years, a 30% boost to Refining, plant growth, and teleportation distance, tracking, etc.
Two major actions was 11 subjective hours each, bumping us up to a full 50% boost as opposed to the 25% might mean being able to squeeze one more in.
Its not a choice between a BP and an Artifact, ideally we'd get both because its an artifact or BP spread across our entire spell list.
How many suicidal people are there running around eating stuff that a combination of not needing vital organs and an Artifact that protects against poisons can't deal with? Or if we're doing it to stack the resistances further, how often are we going to be running into things worth it?
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
But it isn't just an extra 4 subjective years in which to do things. It's a boost to everything that's not a Grand.
Its a single BP for 4 extra years, a 30% boost to Refining, plant growth, and teleportation distance, tracking, etc.
Two major actions was 11 subjective hours each, bumping us up to a full 50% boost as opposed to the 25% might mean being able to squeeze one more in.
Its not a choice between a BP and an Artifact, ideally we'd get both because its an artifact or BP spread across our entire spell list.
I mean aside from our Lichdom, Phial also granted the ability to 'ingest otherwise poisonous materials that normally posed more threat than benefit, even when the magnitude of that benefit was great'
How many suicidal people are there running around eating stuff that a combination of not needing vital organs and an Artifact that protects against poisons can't deal with? Or if we're doing it to stack the resistances further, how often are we going to be running into things worth it?
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
It's probably to help after the vial runs out of time.
Going Beyond on Potentiation does a lot more than raise us from *5 speed to *6 speed. That alone wouldn't be worth it. However, by cutting all the costs to one quarter, it also makes it reasonable to use at least stage two boosts on every other spell we cast, such as Kleinvar's, speeding up our party's Cultivation from another angle.
Also, my hope for the artifact boost to it isn't making it add more power directly, but making it applicable to our Grand Diagrams where it otherwise wouldn't be. If that works, not only would already boost Lichdom and Deliberation, it would also boost Forge further, which will help when we use Artifacts to boost Quickening and Deliberation (which we will, even though it eats into our time, they're too useful not to) and speeds up True Philosopher by making it easier to make the Perfecting Artifacts.
Also, my hope for the artifact boost to it isn't making it add more power directly, but making it applicable to our Grand Diagrams where it otherwise wouldn't be. If that works, not only would already boost Lichdom and Deliberation, it would also boost Forge further, which will help when we use Artifacts to boost Quickening and Deliberation (which we will, even though it eats into our time, they're too useful not to) and speeds up True Philosopher by making it easier to make the Perfecting Artifacts.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
...WHY!?
Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... if you guys are going for the Lich Stronghold, it would behoove you to have Beyond Points at the ready. Since Spend a Beyond Point is substantially far ahead, you guys may want to go for Cultivation. After all, Cultivating back up to Peak Soul Chrysalis would let you forge another powerful Artifact, be it for Organ Refining (if you have the BP) or to augment the Quickening, Vault or Potentiation. Why put on so much pressure to generate BPs when the thread has just had a major BP push recently? Is it really sustainable to expect this level of output consistently?
To answer an earlier question: if you Beyond a spell, you can teach the upgraded version if your student has an empty slot in that position or is willing to empty that slot. Further Beyond / Even Further Beyonds usually can't be taught.
Going Beyond a spell is usually just "I improve the fundamental sub-structure of a spell with my unparalleled Diagram research skills, creating an upgraded version that approaches the limit of what is possible within the Diagram."
Further / Even Further Beyonds tend to be specific to your character or his nature as either the Dark Lord or the Thrice-Great. Fate gives you every advantage in crafting your Forge of the Nameless because the Dark Lord must have his panoply. You tune your version of Llweyn's Prodigious Might in a way that would kill a normal Magus but which your Cultivated body and spirit can withstand. Your understanding of the Ego Barrier allows your Crown of Tragedy to more efficiently pierce those of others. Etcetera
To answer an earlier question: if you Beyond a spell, you can teach the upgraded version if your student has an empty slot in that position or is willing to empty that slot. Further Beyond / Even Further Beyonds usually can't be taught.
Going Beyond a spell is usually just "I improve the fundamental sub-structure of a spell with my unparalleled Diagram research skills, creating an upgraded version that approaches the limit of what is possible within the Diagram."
Further / Even Further Beyonds tend to be specific to your character or his nature as either the Dark Lord or the Thrice-Great. Fate gives you every advantage in crafting your Forge of the Nameless because the Dark Lord must have his panoply. You tune your version of Llweyn's Prodigious Might in a way that would kill a normal Magus but which your Cultivated body and spirit can withstand. Your understanding of the Ego Barrier allows your Crown of Tragedy to more efficiently pierce those of others. Etcetera
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Tally incoming
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
[X] Don't Spent a Beyond Point
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] Seek Cultivation Materials
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] Seek Cultivation Materials
It might not be... But perhaps, we omake writers just have to be put under enough pressure to Go Beyond our limitations?!?
Rihaku
The Internet
More broadly, one of the reasons you guys picked Archsmith was so that you could substitute Artifacts for Beyond Points. If that is a priority, you should consider maxing out your Cultivation speed first so that you can manufacture Artifacts in the lowest possible time. Then you can use Artifacts to cover BP spend while stocking up BP for the Truth or Philosopher-King. Even if you save BP now and have enough to Go Beyond all the lich spells you want, that's still BP expended which is not going to Truth.
Liches are great, but is the Diagram right now actually the point of maximum leverage in your build? Or would you reap greater benefits by, say, cultivating to Peak Soul Chrysalis and crafting an Artifact to boost an already-Blood Boosted Quickening, thus taking multiplicative advantage of each Beyond Point invested in that synergy?
Liches are great, but is the Diagram right now actually the point of maximum leverage in your build? Or would you reap greater benefits by, say, cultivating to Peak Soul Chrysalis and crafting an Artifact to boost an already-Blood Boosted Quickening, thus taking multiplicative advantage of each Beyond Point invested in that synergy?
I think we need to consider whether we're aiming for yet more Diagram Magic or whether we're going to try to make serious progress in going for Philosopher King. If the latter, conserving Beyond Points and collecting treasures is the right choice.
We can actually finish the first three stages of cultivation and get the 'True Alchemist' synergy bonus pretty quickly with just two Beyond points and dedication. Chances are excellent that will provide serious further cultivation bonuses.
'Prodigious' treasure amounts and +30% chance of 'Priceless' treasure is nothing to ignore. That kind of treasure can probably push our lieutenants up in cultivation too.
It is certainly tempting to go Beyond for Potentiation, but even without that option it increases the potential time acceleration to X5 and has other benefits. I have to ask- is it actually necessary or just something we want, and if the latter how often will we trade good enough for perfect and forestall some of the really game-breaking stuff?
The issue I see is that while synergies do exist not all Diagram Magic is really inherently suited to assisting cultivation and it DOES obviously take a lot of time to learn. If we waste time learning zombie spells or emotion manipulating spells we can't afford to go Beyond on, we'll run out of time.
We can actually finish the first three stages of cultivation and get the 'True Alchemist' synergy bonus pretty quickly with just two Beyond points and dedication. Chances are excellent that will provide serious further cultivation bonuses.
'Prodigious' treasure amounts and +30% chance of 'Priceless' treasure is nothing to ignore. That kind of treasure can probably push our lieutenants up in cultivation too.
It is certainly tempting to go Beyond for Potentiation, but even without that option it increases the potential time acceleration to X5 and has other benefits. I have to ask- is it actually necessary or just something we want, and if the latter how often will we trade good enough for perfect and forestall some of the really game-breaking stuff?
The issue I see is that while synergies do exist not all Diagram Magic is really inherently suited to assisting cultivation and it DOES obviously take a lot of time to learn. If we waste time learning zombie spells or emotion manipulating spells we can't afford to go Beyond on, we'll run out of time.
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DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Even though you are doing that exact thing?
Is the sword still up in the air?
If we skip enhancing Haltsuphrect's Quickening, can we still put that beyond point in it later, or is this choice taking place when we research the spell?
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
I'm just gonna throw a vote in at the time-sensitive objectives.
I DO want to go for philosopher-king, mostly because the aesthetic is similar to the Kintsugi Man, one of my favorite NPCs. Getting a discounted EFB is also rad.
(I dream of philosopher+truth, but man, writing is hard)
If we skip enhancing Haltsuphrect's Quickening, can we still put that beyond point in it later, or is this choice taking place when we research the spell?
[X] Xiaoling Cultivation Boost
[X] [The Ring] Seek the Lich Stronghold
I'm just gonna throw a vote in at the time-sensitive objectives.
I DO want to go for philosopher-king, mostly because the aesthetic is similar to the Kintsugi Man, one of my favorite NPCs. Getting a discounted EFB is also rad.
(I dream of philosopher+truth, but man, writing is hard)
He was pointing out the typo. SpenT versus SpenD.
Rihaku
The Internet
You are choosing whether to boost Tyranshal's Potentiation, which in turn can boost all non-Grand Diagrams (of which Haltsuphrect's Quickening is one). You can typically only put Beyond Points into a spell when you are researching it.
If you consider time your most precious resource, then getting more of it may well be worth the Beyond Points. Going Beyond this option would let you complete a full Soul Chrysalis stage in only 5 months (down from 7.5). If you also Gather Cultivation Materials with A Fierce Migration or Mastered Kleinvarr's, that could push the time required down either further. And if you are going for Philosopher-King, time is of the essence, since you will need to Cultivate the Soul Chrysalis Stage at least twice more in order to reach True Alchemist.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I was pointing out that some people are voting for a misspelled version of the world "spend"