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Blood of the Frontier (CK2) Completed.

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Sabin said:
Early artillery, with inexperienced officers/tactics, don't do well against horses, just saying.
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It does well against charges (one time, then a long reload happens) unless cavalry has very good armor. Put small stones into the cannon, fire point-blank, ???, profit.

One tactic may be to lure cavalry towards guns, fire, then put spearmen in front of guns until they are reloaded. The scaring aspect may not work as well, though, Mongols are acquianted with Chinese guns somewhat.
 
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Magoose said:
Nope, we can't be the marshel, it was a one turn thing and since we ignored, it won't come up again for awhile.
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Hmm, regretful. Something like "This is your last chance to be Marshal" would have been useful, but oh well. Chances are we'll pick it up when the current Marshal retires or dies.
 
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FortTell said:
The scaring aspect may not work as well, though, Mongols are acquianted with Chinese guns somewhat.
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That's not quite how it works.
Ever looked into how the British Army in the 1800's trained its cavalry horses to not panic at gunfire? It took years of gradually inuring them to loud noises, ranging from keeping them in corrals near train tracks, infantry firing their weapons near them, to ultimately firing cannons right next to them.
Unless the Mongols are somehow in possession of their own firearms and the industry to support them, they won't be able to prepare their horses on any meaningful scale.
 
Always Late said:
That's not quite how it works.
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Hence I said maybe. But Mongols probably have some from of gunpowder weapons, gained from covert stealing and maybe raiding border regions and military encampments, depending on how hard a counter the Wall of China is.
Especially with a military genius in charge.

Now, they are unlikely to train their horses, as their gunpowder supply is limited but the Khan pretty surely has corrected this important weakness among his bodyguards and maybe elites one way or another.
 
Always Late said:
That's not quite how it works.
Ever looked into how the British Army in the 1800's trained its cavalry horses to not panic at gunfire? It took years of gradually inuring them to loud noises, ranging from keeping them in corrals near train tracks, infantry firing their weapons near them, to ultimately firing cannons right next to them.
Unless the Mongols are somehow in possession of their own firearms and the industry to support them, they won't be able to prepare their horses on any meaningful scale.
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Not to mention the disruption canons would have on cavalry formations. Add to that Canons our range Mongol Bows by far and their ability to skirmish at a distance and charge at weak points properly is screwed.

And they won't suspect it either, they have no idea we have canons and I don't think the Chinese use them as extensively as we will. Europe pulled ahead on black powder tech for a reason. We knew how to make war.
 
I'm not entirely sure about getting cannons just yet. While they might scare the Mongols away, we would also run the risk of them scaring our own troops away. Remember that Artillery Leader specialization that came up after graduation?
Magoose said:
[]Artillery Leader: There are many special units within the empire that can be called upon to serve., but the Artillery units of the Imperial army are second to none. (If you are leading them All Artillery units gain a +10 to all rolls and morale will be set to Excellent at the beginning of that battle. Artillery will now be able to target enemy commanders when the battle starts even if they are out of range. Any cannons in your army will not cause any morale damage to your army.)
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Also, I'm not sure how realistically Magoose wants to play this, but trying to move cannons around in deep snow is a real pain in the ass, if not outright impossible.

On the other hand, cannon fire would definitely serve to sow chaos in the enemy ranks, and it is possible that our men will grow more used to the cannons as time goes on. I guess it really just comes down to how much we are willing to risk to bring a potentially quick end to this war.
 
Am I the only one who wants to look into our family's background? The GM wouldn't offer it unless there was something interesting to reveal, and leaving a loose end hanging like this really burns me. And we can't teach ll our sons this turn, so why not get the family background check out of the way now we have the chance?
 
RandomMan01 said:
Also, I'm not sure how realistically Magoose wants to play this, but trying to move cannons around in deep snow is a real pain in the ass, if not outright impossible
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All I will say is that you should be thankful that you took organizer and winter soldier. Because Vasily will find a way to move cannons through the snow.

Edit: also you will not be the only commander leading the army.
 
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Alright everyone, it's been 4 hours. You all can vote... starting now.
 
[X] Random Plan
-[X]The Order of the Dragon's Meeting: Alexander has finally set up a meeting for the Order of the Dragon. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You attend the meeting of the Order of the Dragon.
-[X]Support Zima: You will make sure that Zima stays on her newly acquired throne. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 80% Reward: There is less of a chance the Polish nobles will rebel.
-[X]Muster the Troops (Vassals): You need to call your Vassals troops up for campaign. The Rus is at stake. Cost: 0, Chance of success: 90% Reward: Your Vassals troops are ready and waiting at Novgorod.
-[X]Recruit More Troops: You need more able-bodied men in your army, and you know the Rus has a larger population to call upon. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 60% Reward: A D20,000 is rolled for soldiers recruited. Soldiers experience will be placed at (Recruits)
[X]Request Artillery: You want to have artillery in your army. The High-quality ones, the pieces that are made in Rome and Vienna. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 70% Reward: You get a d100 for artillery pieces and a d20 for cannons.
-[X]In Dire Times (Supplies) You need Novgorod ready for a siege. That means food and clear lanes of supply for the city. Cost: 200, (This action lasts for 2 turns) Chance of success: 40% Reward: Novgorod will be ready for a prolonged siege.
-[X]In Dire Times (Fortifying): Fortifications are needed to survive the Mongols. You need to get your hands on everything that you need to defend your city. You found some notes in your father's old books about making Novgorod into a citadel, along with other defenses like ballista towers. It will take time and coin, but it will make Novgorod safe. Cost: 2000, (This action lasts for 3 turns) Chance of success: 30% Reward: You begin construction of extra fortifications on Novgorod.
-[X]Purge the Spies: You want to find those bastards who see your home as nothing more than a ground to trade information, and destabilize your home. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: The spies are dead, captured, or work for you.
-[X]Spy networking: You want to get agents out around the world, and the empire. Natasha knows people that can help, but it will take time. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: International and Domestic espionage unlocked.
-[X]Study your family history: You have never really bothered looking into your family's past, mostly because you always wanted to be a soldier. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: You learn a bit more about your family that wasn't told to you as a child in stories.
-[X]Teach Alexi how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Alexi learns how to read, Alexi's Learning stat increases.
-[X]Living arrangements: With Zima having to go into Poland, You need to find a way to make sure all of you stay connected and still be a family. Cost: 10 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You kids will no longer become unhappy being away from their mother.
-[X]Spend time with your children: You will find some time in your schedule to be there for them. What kind of man would you be if you were not? You are their father after all. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: You spend time with your children

On the study your family history choice, I kinda agree with Chaeronea in that we should learn that at some point. Plus, it could be advantageous to know our familial history before we start educating our children.
 
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[X] Random Plan
-[X]The Order of the Dragon's Meeting: Alexander has finally set up a meeting for the Order of the Dragon. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You attend the meeting of the Order of the Dragon.
-[X]Support Zima: You will make sure that Zima stays on her newly acquired throne. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 80% Reward: There is less of a chance the Polish nobles will rebel.
-[X]Muster the Troops (Vassals): You need to call your Vassals troops up for campaign. The Rus is at stake. Cost: 0, Chance of success: 90% Reward: Your Vassals troops are ready and waiting at Novgorod.
-[X]Recruit More Troops: You need more able-bodied men in your army, and you know the Rus has a larger population to call upon. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 60% Reward: A D20,000 is rolled for soldiers recruited. Soldiers experience will be placed at (Recruits)
-[x]Drilling the Troops: You need your men in top shape. To be prepared for battle at any minute, and fight as well as any Imperial Infantryman. Cost: 125 Chance of success: 65% Reward: Troop quality of local troops will increase (Gain roll bonuses) Only the recruits will increase in experience.
-[X]In Dire Times (Supplies) You need Novgorod ready for a siege. That means food and clear lanes of supply for the city. Cost: 200, (This action lasts for 2 turns) Chance of success: 40% Reward: Novgorod will be ready for a prolonged siege.
-[X]In Dire Times (Fortifying): Fortifications are needed to survive the Mongols. You need to get your hands on everything that you need to defend your city. You found some notes in your father's old books about making Novgorod into a citadel, along with other defenses like ballista towers. It will take time and coin, but it will make Novgorod safe. Cost: 2000, (This action lasts for 3 turns) Chance of success: 30% Reward: You begin construction of extra fortifications on Novgorod.
-[X]Purge the Spies: You want to find those bastards who see your home as nothing more than a ground to trade information, and destabilize your home. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: The spies are dead, captured, or work for you.
-[X]Spy networking: You want to get agents out around the world, and the empire. Natasha knows people that can help, but it will take time. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: International and Domestic espionage unlocked.
-[X]Study your family history: You have never really bothered looking into your family's past, mostly because you always wanted to be a soldier. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: You learn a bit more about your family that wasn't told to you as a child in stories.
-[X]Teach Alexi how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Alexi learns how to read, Alexi's Learning stat increases.
-[X]Living arrangements: With Zima having to go into Poland, You need to find a way to make sure all of you stay connected and still be a family. Cost: 10 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You kids will no longer become unhappy being away from their mother.
-[X]Spend time with your children: You will find some time in your schedule to be there for them. What kind of man would you be if you were not? You are their father after all. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: You spend time with your children
 
... we do not have the money for campaign expenses while still not actually going to war. You're not securing Poland without the intrigue actions, you're just driving them underground. And the less said about not bringing cannons, the better.
[X]Plan Thinking
[]The Order of the Dragon's Meeting: Alexander has finally set up a meeting for the Order of the Dragon. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You attend the meeting of the Order of the Dragon.
[]Request Artillery: You want to have artillery in your army. The High-quality ones, the pieces that are made in Rome and Vienna. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 70% Reward: You get a d100 for artillery pieces and a d20 for cannons.
[]Recruit More Troops: You need more able-bodied men in your army, and you know the Rus has a larger population to call upon. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 60% Reward: A D20,000 is rolled for soldiers recruited. Soldiers experience will be placed at (Recruits)
[]Support Zima: You will make sure that Zima stays on her newly acquired throne. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 80% Reward: There is less of a chance the Polish nobles will rebel.
[]Spy on Poland: You want to be sure that there are no lingering elements that do not want Zima on her rightful throne. Cost 50 Chance of success 60% reward: You discover plots against Zima, and warn her about them.
[]Teach Alexi how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Alexi learns how to read, Alexi's Learning stat increases.
[]Teach Dmtry how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Dmitry learns how to read, Dmitry's Learning stat increases.
[]Spy networking: You want to get agents out around the world, and the empire. Natasha knows people that can help, but it will take time. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: International and Domestic espionage unlocked.
[]Living arrangements: With Zima having to go into Poland, You need to find a way to make sure all of you stay connected and still be a family. Cost: 10 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You kids will no longer become unhappy being away from their mother.
[]Overlook: Spy on Poland
 
Always Late said:
... we do not have the money for campaign expenses while still not actually going to war. You're not securing Poland without the intrigue actions, you're just driving them underground. And the less said about not bringing cannons, the better.
[X]Plan Thinking
[]The Order of the Dragon's Meeting: Alexander has finally set up a meeting for the Order of the Dragon. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You attend the meeting of the Order of the Dragon.
[]Request Artillery: You want to have artillery in your army. The High-quality ones, the pieces that are made in Rome and Vienna. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 70% Reward: You get a d100 for artillery pieces and a d20 for cannons.
[]Recruit More Troops: You need more able-bodied men in your army, and you know the Rus has a larger population to call upon. Cost: 50 Chance of success: 60% Reward: A D20,000 is rolled for soldiers recruited. Soldiers experience will be placed at (Recruits)
[]Support Zima: You will make sure that Zima stays on her newly acquired throne. Cost: 5 Chance of success: 80% Reward: There is less of a chance the Polish nobles will rebel.
[]Spy on Poland: You want to be sure that there are no lingering elements that do not want Zima on her rightful throne. Cost 50 Chance of success 60% reward: You discover plots against Zima, and warn her about them.
[]Teach Alexi how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Alexi learns how to read, Alexi's Learning stat increases.
[]Teach Dmtry how to read: You want to be sure your son knows how to read. Cost: 0 Chance of success: 100% Reward: Dmitry learns how to read, Dmitry's Learning stat increases.
[]Spy networking: You want to get agents out around the world, and the empire. Natasha knows people that can help, but it will take time. Cost 100 Chance of success 75% reward: International and Domestic espionage unlocked.
[]Living arrangements: With Zima having to go into Poland, You need to find a way to make sure all of you stay connected and still be a family. Cost: 10 Chance of success: 90% Reward: You kids will no longer become unhappy being away from their mother.
[]Overlook: Spy on Poland
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Under CK2 rules (which I believe this runs on), vassal levies don't cost anything, but cause a small opinion malus with your vassals if they're raised for too long. Removing the ability to overtly rebel will slow down covert operation, giving us enough time to spy on Poland while still expanding our spy network (which will be important for keeping an eye on the movements of all our enemies (and vassals). And while cannons are cool, and might provide an advantage, they could also royally screw us if they wind up routing our own army during the fight.
 
RandomMan01 said:
Under CK2 rules (which I believe this runs on), vassal levies don't cost anything, but cause a small opinion malus with your vassals if they're raised for too long. Removing the ability to overtly rebel will slow down covert operation, giving us enough time to spy on Poland while still expanding our spy network (which will be important for keeping an eye on the movements of all our enemies (and vassals). And while cannons are cool, and might provide an advantage, they could also royally screw us if they wind up routing our own army during the fight.
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1. EDIT: Well. I'm eating crow for dinner tonight.
2. Because the only way to sneak messages and have secret meetings is to walk around in broad daylight with a sack labeled 'assassination plans'.:rolleyes:
3. Cannon are an undeniable advantage.
4. We can take commanders who negate damaging our own army. If you'd paid attention, you'd know you've been told this before.
 
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Always Late said:
1. EDIT: Well. I'm eating crow for dinner tonight.
2. Because the only way to sneak messages and have secret meetings is to walk around in broad daylight with a sack labeled 'assassination plans'.:rolleyes:
3. Cannon are an undeniable advantage.
4. We can take commanders who negate damaging our own army. If you'd paid attention, you'd know you've been told this before.
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2. I'm not saying that covert actions can't happen, but they still tend to be slower than overt rebellion.
4. I did see that. Which reminds me, actually:
Magoose said:
All I will say is that you should be thankful that you took organizer and winter soldier. Because Vasily will find a way to move cannons through the snow.

Edit: also you will not be the only commander leading the army.
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Will the traits of other commanders apply to the whole army, or only to certain flanks of the army (a la CK2)?
 
RandomMan01 said:
Will the traits of other commanders apply to the whole army, or only to certain flanks of the army (a la CK2)?
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Traits of other commanders will help on Certain flanks in battle so composition is important, and the main commanders traits (for example Vasily's) will carry over into the campaign turns.
 
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Magoose said:
Traits of other commanders will help on Certain flanks in battle so composition is important, and the main commanders traits (for example Vasily's) will carry over into the campaign turns.
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Thank you.
@Always Late That's what I was concerned about (although, in fairness, I should've asked first). We don't have that many commanders who are spec'd in artillery, so we'd either be limited to concentrating cannons on one flank (which would quickly become the focus of the Mongol hordes, and would also limit their effectiveness in battle, depending on its size), or we would run the risk of them weakening the morale of one of our flanks.

In fairness, I'm open to the idea of cannons and spying on Poland, but since people have already voted for my option, I'd rather not make any edits.
 
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