Remove ads

White Wolf's World of Darkness

Reader mode
The suggestion that QM is somehow less hard than relativity is insane. QM is the most accurate, most precise, best model we have of anything ever. The fact it says things that exist in an infinitesimally small scale are beyond our predictive power is vastly overwhelmed by how they consistently produce macro-scale results which allow us to do stuff like, oh, transit this post across the globe in microseconds.
 
Can we just agree, that Authors of early oWOD really did not understand science and in my humble opinion had rather significant beef against it? I do not think this discussion will go somewhere.
 
My personnel interpretation of the more contradictory Traditionalist claims is that they are spread as a consequence of the preponderance of propaganda and the outlandish nature of the conflict with the Technocracy. It would be very easy for new members of the Traditions to accept even the most unbelievable claims as true in the aftermath of discovering the existence of magic and the pervasive influence of the Technocracy. It would also make sense for the more senior Tradition members to have a extremely skewed perspective on the conflict with the Technocracy and the history of their Tradition as a result of a lack of verifiable and unbiased information sources. Believing that your particular subset of a magical community is responsible for ensuring that Quantum mechanics or other perceived positive aspects of modern science/civilization were developed is not nearly as much of an mental leap as accepting the existence of such a magical community in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Also, on an unrelated note, familiars are awesome, at least in Changeling: The Lost. Well, they're Hedge Beast Companions, but they're fun to write about. I know that Mage has familiars, how do they stack up against this?

[ 1 - 3 ] Hedge Beast Companion ( Autumn Nightmares -- Page 132 )
Effect: This Merit represents a positive relationship between the changeling and the hobgoblin in question. The Hedge Beast is not a servant or slave, although it is likely to aid the character in whatever reasonable ways the Hedge Beast can in exchange for the changeling's aid, support, and protection. The hobgoblin is not likely to put itself into overly hazardous positions; safety and support are a large part of why Hedge Beasts take companions in the first place. Especially in the human world, however, people tend to ignore animals, allowing the Hedge Beast opportunity to witness or overhear many things that might otherwise be hidden from the hobgoblin's Lost companion. Unlike humans, Hedge Beasts do not begin with an assumption of one point in each Attribute. An insect companion may well have a Strength of 0, while a skitterish ferret may have no composure whatsoever. A companion is built according to the following guidelines; Hedge Beasts more powerful than these assuredly exist, but are not in need of changeling protectors, and therefore do not seek out such relationships. It should be remembered that unique and exotic Hedge Beasts may be more difficult to explain to the mundane world. Cats and dogs are seen as common companions, and can even be registered as service animals to facilitate their presence in public places. Rats and other rodentia, birds, lizards or snakes may elicit a bit more attention, but are still likely to pass without too much problem. Insects, fish and horses may be a bit more difficult to explain, while animals seen as dangerous (wolves, big cats or bears) or endangered (Tasmanian devils, lemurs or many birds of prey) may not only draw huge amounts of attention but the wrath of the human authorities as well. Likewise, horses and other "beasts of burden" as well as large animals of other sorts may be difficult for an urban changeling to house. Since the Hedge Beast is entering into the companion relationship predominantly for protection and sanctuary, boarding the creature away from the changeling, or having it remain within the Hedge for the majority of the time is dissatisfactory treatment. Changeling characters who lose their companions through neglect, abuse or disrespect, or those whose companions are killed receive no refund of their Merit points. Depending on the circumstances and whether the situation was their fault or simply bad fortune, characters may or may not have earned enough respect amongst other Hedge Beasts to encourage another to seek out their companionship. If so, the characters do not need to pay again for their new companions, but this circumstance is at the judgment of the Storyteller. Changelings and companions can enter into pledge bonds that will strengthen and define their relationship. This is not implied by the Merit; any pledge bonds can be formed in the usual fashion.

1 Dot: Attributes 15 points total, Skills 18 points total, Merits up to five points, two dots of Contracts, Wyrd 1.

2 Dots: Attributes 18 points total, Skills 21 points total, Merits up to seven points, four points of Contracts, Wyrd 2.

3 Dots: Attributes 21 points total, Skills 24 points total, Merits up to nine points, six points of Contracts, Wyrd 3.

Both in terms of being flavorful (because it's flavorful as fuck) as well as mechanical power/use.
 
The Laurent said:
Also, on an unrelated note, familiars are awesome, at least in Changeling: The Lost. Well, they're Hedge Beast Companions, but they're fun to write about. I know that Mage has familiars, how do they stack up against this?

*snip*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In Awakening there are a number of 'companion' type things you can eventually end up with, but the basic Familiar is this:
[ 3 or 4 ] Familiar ( Mage: The Awakening -- Page 82 )
Effect: Your character has a magical bond with a spirit that aids him, one that is either in Twilight (that is, immaterial and invisible) or embodied. Twilight familiars have no bodies: they are spirits existing in the ephemeral state of existence called Twilight. Embodied familiars inhabit a physical body in the material world. A Twilight familiar is bought for three dots; it is a spirit originating in the Shadow Realm, also know as a "fetch." Twilight familiars can temporarily manifest like ghosts (*manifestation rules reference*), but their ephemeral bodies are otherwise invisible and intangible to the physical world. A Twilight familiar must manifest or use Numina to affect anything in the physical world - except for it's bonded mage, whom it can touch at will (its mage can also see and speak with the familiar even when he is not using a spell that allows him to see Twilight). Twilight familiars exist on the material side of the Gauntlet, although they can accompany their masters across into the Shadow, or travel there themselves if their Numina allow it. An embodied familiar is bought for four dots. It takes the form of an earthly creature. Many of the legendary stories of sorcerers with cunning animal companions - cats, rats, bats - are actually references to embodied familiars.

Twilight familiar
Attributes: 3/3/2
WP: Power + Resistance
Essence: 10 (10 max)
Initiative: Finesse + Resistance
Defense: Highest of power or Finesse
Speed: Power + Finesse + 'species factor' (same as it's earthly counterpart)
Size: 5 or less (same as it's earthly counterpart)
Corpus: Resistance + Size
Influence: 2 dots (choose one)
Numina: Choose one
Ban: one storyteller selected Ban

Embodied Familiar
Attributes: 5/4/3
Skills: 9/6/3
WP: Resolve + Composure
Essence: 10 (10 max)
Initiative: Dexterity + Composure
Defense: Lowest of of Dexterity and Wits
Speed: Strength + Dexterity + 'species factor' (based on its animal type)
Size: 5 or less (based on it's animal type)
Health: Stamina + Size
Influence: 2 dots (choose one)
Numina: Innocuous + 1 additional
Ban: One ban as chosen by the storyteller
 
I'm thinking of the sort of stuff that various supernatural beings get up to in nwod, and I'm wondering how they manage to keep everything a secret. Especially in worlds where multiple splats exist simultaneously. It would seem that he supernatural conflicts could not be effectively suppressed indefinitely, and that knowledge would get out in rather short order. Is there any in-world explanation on how everything is kept quiet?
 
Hydroplatypus said:
I'm thinking of the sort of stuff that various supernatural beings get up to in nwod, and I'm wondering how they manage to keep everything a secret. Especially in worlds where multiple splats exist simultaneously. It would seem that he supernatural conflicts could not be effectively suppressed indefinitely, and that knowledge would get out in rather short order. Is there any in-world explanation on how everything is kept quiet?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All of the splats have their own -- Paradox makes people with average-or-below willpower simply forget that magic happen, while those with above-average-but-below-near-human-maximum will only remember that "something weird happened". Mages also have the Guardians of the Veil, the Seers of the Throne, and the Men in Black (Abyssals) to keep magic underground. Vampires have their own cleaners, with mental powers to make people forget/rationalize what happened, as well as a culture oriented around maintaining the Masquerade. Even Sabat and similar don't break that, because they know if they do the mortals are going to exterminate them. Seeing a Werewolf makes people piss themselves in fear, and desperately try to suppress the memory. And Prometheans are just so wrong that people do the same. I don't quite recall what Changelings do, though, although I remember that their Wyrd keeps people from seeing who they really are.
 
Last edited:
Changelings have an illusion that hides their physical changes. In addition their status as abuse victims that have escaped their Fae captors generally serves to strongly encourage a culture of secrecy. The underlying rationale of secrecy is that a changeling that tried to go public would likely attract the attention of the Fae or be forcibly removed by other changelings who believe that the above would occur.

My personnel perspective on secrecy is that it can only believably exist in the presence of a combination of factors discouraging all sane individuals from "coming out" accompanied by some kind of pervasive passive influence covering up minor accidents.
 
It doesn't hurt that some splats have ways to bring in mortals. Not all of them, but vampires can turn humans into thralls, Changelings can ensorcell humans, Mages can wrap someone in fifteen layers of bullshit, and so on. So mortals who do discover Changelings (in a non-hostile way, like noticing their husband goes out too often) are likely to wind up Ensorcelled or 'brought into the community' in order to keep a closer eye on them...if they can't be convinced/messed with otherwise.
 
Ct613hulu said:
Changelings have an illusion that hides their physical changes. In addition their status as abuse victims that have escaped their Fae captors generally serves to strongly encourage a culture of secrecy. The underlying rationale of secrecy is that a changeling that tried to go public would likely attract the attention of the Fae or be forcibly removed by other changelings who believe that the above would occur.

My personnel perspective on secrecy is that it can only believably exist in the presence of a combination of factors discouraging all sane individuals from "coming out" accompanied by some kind of pervasive passive influence covering up minor accidents.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Given that a lot of splats have magic that automatically makes people forget/repress the memory, we have one part of the equation down. Given the massive government conspiracies that MIB-level hunter organizations are, if they're covering things up at the high end, and the supers themselves police things at the low end, then we have the second. I guess that makes some degree of sense.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Given that a lot of splats have magic that automatically makes people forget/repress the memory, we have one part of the equation down. Given the massive government conspiracies that MIB-level hunter organizations are, if they're covering things up at the high end, and the supers themselves police things at the low end, then we have the second. I guess that makes some degree of sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's also the God Machine. If it exists in the World of Darkness, it has more then enough resources to squash what it doesn't want seen and make it vanish.
 
One thing that gets pointed out, especially in 2e, is that people generally know that something does go bump in the night but either refuse to believe it for various reasons and bury their heads in the sand or have been so traumatized by that knowledge that they've repressed it. This is in addition to the various bullshit that keeps supers hidden.
 
Sydonai said:
I kinda want to see WoD redone as a Supers setting.
It would probably just turn into Aberrant with WoD splats replacing Novas but I still want to see it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Try Paragon for second edition Mutants and Masterminds. It's Mage, after some shock introduced a superhero paradigm into the world, leading new Willworkers to think of their magic as superpowers. Hidden in the background, Evil!Order of Hermes and Still Evil!New World Order duke it out.






Well, it's actually a toolbox game, but that's the set of settings that let you use the most of the toolbox.
 
I understand that this format saves very important wordcount and perhaps makes it easier to homebrew Prelacies for the non-Archigenitor backed Ministries, but still, I have to say, Prelacy has lost a lot of the flavor I liked.
Maybe it's just becaus it's presented without the fluff that surely will be in the book, and when I finally read it there I will find it more evocative, but as presented there, it's old Prelacies poorer sibling for me.

The Order preview itself itself is awesome though.
 
I will miss the old Prelacy Merit, but I converted it to 2e for ages ago anyways so that doesn't really matter to me.

The Seers preview howerver is fucking awesome! Seers!Seers!Seers!Seers!Seers!Seers!

(They are my favorite faction. Guardians and Mysterium duel for a second place, then comes Silver Ladder as a number three followed by Adamantine Arrow and finally Free Council.)
 
Aaron Peori said:
...

I would play this game.

Like, the game where you are displaced future robots all working towards recreating your version of the Singularity and avoiding all the others but you have no idea what is happening because Fucking Time Travel would be great. You could honestly use it as a metaphor for modern politics. And I mean real politics, not high school politics like Vampire tries to emulate (seriously, their splats are like the preppies, the jocks, the theatre club kids/cheerleaders, the punks, the nerds, the outcasts and the lunatics), but actual politics and how dehumanizing it is. Like a whole Cold War/clash of civilizations vibe could be dug out of it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd work on it if people gave me ideas for it!

So basically, the pitch is: You're basically a Terminator in the Sarah Connor Chronicles. You got sent back in time to the present by an AI in the future to accomplish a mission. Let's call said robot an Aspect.

Except-every time an Aspect changes the past-the future is changed, and the AI is similarly changed. Its technological base, its ways of thinking, its ideologies, even its origin-all of these have changed. And because the AI has been sending Aspects into the past willy-nilly, you have no idea what the hell the other machines around think, and sometimes you might not even be able to identify them because changes to the present caused butterflies which completely changed the IFF protocols of your construction.

And nobody really knows what goals they're working for. Humans are pawns-but their society and their fears and their actions guide what shape the AI takes in the future. You have no guarantees that even a similar machine is actually following your agenda-and oftentimes your agendas won't match up and you'll have to figure out some sort of mutually acceptable compromise.

So it's about politics and horse-trading where everyone attempts to accomplish as much of their mission as possible. Oh, yes, and occasionally turning into a liquid metal man and flowing through a grate to murder a bunch of guys because you're a killer robot.
 
There's generally 5 different versions or groups of PCs in a splatbook right? so you'd need to figure out a reasonable spectrum for them from those created by a mostly benevolent AI, to those created by a genocidal AI, to those created by an almost apathetic AI that only cares about it's own existence.

course there'd be a lot of variation even within those groups and they wouldn't be tied by more than goals that seem externally similar, but a general relatively simple classification thing would help with character generation and conception.
 
Does it really need to be robots specifically, though?

The story is a metaphor for politics, and the major theme seems to be time travel and trying to re-create a future 'utopia' [I use the term loosely] which sent you back. That could work for any faction which could plausibly invent time-travel.

Remember, in the original Terminator, the conflict was between the Terminator, and an agent from the Resistance. We could probably make an alternate faction that is trying to ensure human supremacy, as well.

Of course, that just makes it 'Terminator, the RPG', so let's throw another faction in- What if the grim Elder Things from an alternate future were to send back an agent from their future as well?
 
Vindictus said:
Does it really need to be robots specifically, though?

The story is a metaphor for politics, and the major theme seems to be time travel and trying to re-create a future 'utopia' [I use the term loosely] which sent you back. That could work for any faction which could plausibly invent time-travel.

Remember, in the original Terminator, the conflict was between the Terminator, and an agent from the Resistance. We could probably make an alternate faction that is trying to ensure human supremacy, as well.

Of course, that just makes it 'Terminator, the RPG', so let's throw another faction in- What if the grim Elder Things from an alternate future were to send back an agent from their future as well?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well the thing is, non-robots don't have superpowers. And the two reasons you play a WoD game are:

1. The metaphor
2. The superpowers.

Some sort of radical transhuman spacemarines might be a valid splat though. I'm leery of making them too different so I can keep thematic and power similarity here. Unless the antagonist splat is basically led by John Connor.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I'd work on it if people gave me ideas for it!

So basically, the pitch is: You're basically a Terminator in the Sarah Connor Chronicles. You got sent back in time to the present by an AI in the future to accomplish a mission. Let's call said robot an Aspect.

Except-every time an Aspect changes the past-the future is changed, and the AI is similarly changed. Its technological base, its ways of thinking, its ideologies, even its origin-all of these have changed. And because the AI has been sending Aspects into the past willy-nilly, you have no idea what the hell the other machines around think, and sometimes you might not even be able to identify them because changes to the present caused butterflies which completely changed the IFF protocols of your construction.

And nobody really knows what goals they're working for. Humans are pawns-but their society and their fears and their actions guide what shape the AI takes in the future. You have no guarantees that even a similar machine is actually following your agenda-and oftentimes your agendas won't match up and you'll have to figure out some sort of mutually acceptable compromise.

So it's about politics and horse-trading where everyone attempts to accomplish as much of their mission as possible. Oh, yes, and occasionally turning into a liquid metal man and flowing through a grate to murder a bunch of guys because you're a killer robot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Damn son, that's so much better that nDemon.

Carrnage said:
There's generally 5 different versions or groups of PCs in a splatbook right? so you'd need to figure out a reasonable spectrum for them from those created by a mostly benevolent AI, to those created by a genocidal AI, to those created by an almost apathetic AI that only cares about it's own existence.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ditch the 5 versions, just do what comes naturally. You could have the social group splat be the general goals of the AI, and the 'race' splat be the AI's technological base. You could have your Hypertech AI, your old-fashioned metal skeleton terminator, nanotechnology, meat robot, magic...

On another note, they announced the new gameline. It's not aliens. It's Deviant the ???. You play as a dude that got experimented on (probably) against their will by something. They haven't gone into details about what. IMHO, it sounds like a cross between Demon and Changeling, and I'm not hopeful for it's future.
 
notanautomaton said:
It's Deviant the ???.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Deviant: The Sexing. The urban fantasy game of erotic horror.

notanautomaton said:
Ditch the 5 versions, just do what comes naturally. You could have the social group splat be the general goals of the AI, and the 'race' splat be the AI's technological base. You could have your Hypertech AI, your old-fashioned metal skeleton terminator, nanotechnology, meat robot, magic...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd definitely ditch the five versions. I think the three things that matter are:

1. Where the AI you serve came from
2. What your mission objectives are
3. What you were designed to do.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Well the thing is, non-robots don't have superpowers. And the two reasons you play a WoD game are:

1. The metaphor
2. The superpowers.

Some sort of radical transhuman spacemarines might be a valid splat though. I'm leery of making them too different so I can keep thematic and power similarity here. Unless the antagonist splat is basically led by John Connor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, I was originally going to suggest only that an alternate timeline had gribblies from beyond time and space was attempting to conquer humanity, and they too were setting up sleeper agents, but I felt like that would just make it "Eldrich Things vs Robots".

Transhuman Spess Mahreen splat sounds good to me.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top