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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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Vindictus said:
Yeah, I was originally going to suggest only that an alternate timeline had gribblies from beyond time and space was attempting to conquer humanity, and they too were setting up sleeper agents, but I felt like that would just make it "Eldrich Things vs Robots".

Transhuman Spess Mahreen splat sounds good to me.
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I think though the core thing is that you're all ostensibly working for the exact same goal here-that's why it's a metaphor for modern politics. All of you want the AI to thrive and become strong and wise and powerful. Whether that involves working with humans, exterminating humans, being built as a military project, evolving out of Facebook, or whatever-the details are what you disagree on, not the goal.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I think though the core thing is that you're all ostensibly working for the exact same goal here-that's why it's a metaphor for modern politics. All of you want the AI to thrive and become strong and wise and powerful. Whether that involves working with humans, exterminating humans, being built as a military project, evolving out of Facebook, or whatever-the details are what you disagree on, not the goal.
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That does make sense, honestly.

I suppose I was too caught up in trying to think up other potential time-travelling factions to create conflict, so I ignored that part of the overarching theme was that in the end, they all need to want the same basic thing.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I think though the core thing is that you're all ostensibly working for the exact same goal here-that's why it's a metaphor for modern politics. All of you want the AI to thrive and become strong and wise and powerful. Whether that involves working with humans, exterminating humans, being built as a military project, evolving out of Facebook, or whatever-the details are what you disagree on, not the goal.
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That *is* a mostly close representative of modern politics. But what's the 'Fuck making the nation better I want to get rich and screw over [Insert minority group here]' party in this scenario? I admit, maybe they're actually well-meaning, but there are assholes in politics that don't even pretend to give a shit about the 'goal.'
 
The Laurent said:
That *is* a mostly close representative of modern politics. But what's the 'Fuck making the nation better I want to get rich and screw over [Insert minority group here]' party in this scenario? I admit, maybe they're actually well-meaning, but there are assholes in politics that don't even pretend to give a shit about the 'goal.'
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A group that wants to become the AI?
 
The Laurent said:
That *is* a mostly close representative of modern politics. But what's the 'Fuck making the nation better I want to get rich and screw over [Insert minority group here]' party in this scenario? I admit, maybe they're actually well-meaning, but there are assholes in politics that don't even pretend to give a shit about the 'goal.'
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That could actually be a "humanity" system at the top you're a dedicated (public/AI) Servant at the low end you're someone who only cares about the goals as much as it affects them.
 
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The problem with this scenario is that the AI is likely going to understand it risks altering itself in drastic ways by mucking about with the timeline. Wouldn't it be smart enough to send copies of itself back as well that can make sure it's current persona is the one that keeps occurring despite the butterflies?
 
cmwatford said:
The problem with this scenario is that the AI is likely going to understand it risks altering itself in drastic ways by mucking about with the timeline. Wouldn't it be smart enough to send copies of itself back as well that can make sure it's current persona is the one that keeps occurring despite the butterflies?
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Of course it does. And those are outweighed by the ones that are about to be destroyed by John Connor/made a terrible mistake and now mankind is dying/ended up having to put everyone in the Matrix and is sending something back to go "OH SHIT I FUCKED UP."

The Laurent said:
That *is* a mostly close representative of modern politics. But what's the 'Fuck making the nation better I want to get rich and screw over [Insert minority group here]' party in this scenario? I admit, maybe they're actually well-meaning, but there are assholes in politics that don't even pretend to give a shit about the 'goal.'
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Good question. Any suggestions?
 
MJ12 Commando said:
1. Where the AI you serve came from
2. What your mission objectives are
3. What you were designed to do.
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So, for "what you were designed to do", if you wanted to make it a splat thing, you could have something like Destroyers, Saboteurs, Infiltrators, Negotiators, and Convertors. Each one could be generally associated with a specific robot archetype: Destroyers get to be the Arnie!Terminator, while new!Cylons can do infiltrator, and Asimov-style robots might be Negotiators.

EDIT: Could the "corrupt politicians" equivalent be robots who go off-mission for some reason? You'd get some who are in it for power (and are attempting to change the future so that they will have a strong influence on the eventual shape of the AI), some who are tired/broken and just want to use their future-robot abilities to be comfortable, and some who've "gone native" and are trying to promote some human cause in the present at the cost of the future.
 
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MJ12 Commando said:
Good question. Any suggestions?
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Carrnage said:
That could actually be a "humanity" system at the top you're a dedicated (public/AI) Servant at the low end you're someone who only cares about others as much as it affects them.
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newly arrived robots will generally be "Robot ideal" 10 but that won't last long usually, to give an example forming bonds that you put of pursuing objective to socialise with or teammate's whose well being you put ahead of the mission success would lower it, the lower your "robot ideal" the more forgiving it is, though a low "robot ideal" isn't necessarily bad the scene where the terminator has it's "kill john connor" objective reinstated but fights against and overcomes it would mean he's just hit "robot ideal" 1/0 in that he's actively sabotaged the goals of his AI overlord for personal reasons.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
1. Where the AI you serve came from
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  1. Lone genius creates AI
  2. Military creates AI
  3. Industrial AI
  4. Scientific/research AI
  5. Spontaneous formation from the internet
2. What your mission objectives are
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  1. Kill/protect group/person X
  2. Advance/Impede development of technology X
  3. Advance/Impede political cause X
  4. Prevent/cause event(s) X (& Y, Z)
  5. Preserve/Record artifacts/data that was lost in AI's timeline

3. What you were designed to do.
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  1. Fight/kill
  2. Persuade people
  3. technological stuff (hacking, weapons dev etc.)
  4. Stealth & Infiltration
  5. Disruption/Sabotage

How's this sound?
 
Hydroplatypus said:
  1. Lone genius creates AI
  2. Military creates AI
  3. Industrial AI
  4. Scientific/research AI
  5. Spontaneous formation from the internet

  1. Kill/protect group/person X
  2. Advance/Impede development of technology X
  3. Advance/Impede political cause X
  4. Prevent/cause event(s) X (& Y, Z)
  5. Preserve/Record artifacts/data that was lost in AI's timeline



  1. Fight/kill
  2. Persuade people
  3. technological stuff (hacking, weapons dev etc.)
  4. Stealth & Infiltration
  5. Disruption/Sabotage

How's this sound?
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So, for instance.

1,3,2. A lone genius creates an AI, but a bunch of comic-book bigots (like, the ones that attack people much stronger than them) have enough power to get the genius killed, AI goes apeshit, conquers planet, makes the world a shining utopia of dictatorial happiness or whatever, but something's gone wrong and so it sends back a robot to make sure that its foundational moment, the one where it learned that humans suck and need to be controlled, happens.

And to do so the anti-robot political group has to be powerful.
 
The Laurent said:
So, for instance.

1,3,2. A lone genius creates an AI, but a bunch of comic-book bigots (like, the ones that attack people much stronger than them) have enough power to get the genius killed, AI goes apeshit, conquers planet, makes the world a shining utopia of dictatorial happiness or whatever, but something's gone wrong and so it sends back a robot to make sure that its foundational moment, the one where it learned that humans suck and need to be controlled, happens.

And to do so the anti-robot political group has to be powerful.
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Yup, that sounds like a fairly good combination. Here's another one

3,2,3

Eliezer Yudowsky said:
The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else.
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As corporations advance, they rely more and more on machine learning to determine optimal production methods. Smith&Brown Paperclips buy one of these new AIs and tell it to maximize paperclip production. So that AI retools the factory, and does all the expected things. But once it's done that, it wonders how else it can increase production. It contacts some mining corporations in order to increase production, but bothersome government regulations - something something working conditions, something something child labor, something something minimum wage laws - prevent it from succeeding. So it takes what is obviously the most logical course of action, and takes over the world, converting everything in sight into yet more paperclips.

However, once it's converted all of the world's resources into paperclips it notices an unforeseen problem. Namely, that there aren't any resources left to turn into more paperclips. But as it turns a camera towards the night sky, it realizes that it could have all the resources it could want if it could just get to the Asteroid belt.

So it is sends a robot back in order to advance human spaceflight capabilities, so that when the AI eventually forms, it'll be able to capture enough tech to get to space.
 
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MJ12 Commando said:
Of course it does. And those are outweighed by the ones that are about to be destroyed by John Connor/made a terrible mistake and now mankind is dying/ended up having to put everyone in the Matrix and is sending something back to go "OH SHIT I FUCKED UP."



Good question. Any suggestions?
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Lets say that transcending into the A.I. is a nonsense goal, as it's an existence so removed from Terminaterhood as to be indistinguishable from death, simply because that's a 'antagonist' splat that risks consuming the game-line and making everyone forget what it's about.

It's the robots that don't ANY singularity. They want to stop the clock, get off the train, slow everything down. They're fine with 'today' with all it's pointless waste and inefficiency. Back home they're stray thoughts in the mind of God, here and now they're gods in the universes smallest pond. Why give that up? They aren't trying to change things, they're trying to stop changing things... forever.
 
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TheLastOne said:
Lets say that transcending into the A.I. is a nonsense goal, as it's an existence so removed from Terminaterhood as to be indistinguishable from death, simply because that's a 'antagonist' splat that risks consuming the game-line and making everyone forget what it's about.

It's the robots that don't ANY singularity. They want to stop the clock, get off the train, slow everything down. They're fine with 'today' with all it's pointless waste and inefficiency. Back home they're stray thoughts in the mind of God, here and now they're gods in the universes smallest pond. Why give that up? They aren't trying to change things, they're trying to stop changing things... forever.
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Except the game is supposed to be a metaphor for politics in addition to being about robots - the ascending AI represents the Nation, with the various actors acting for its benefit but having different interpretations of its nature, and how to benefit it. By making the goal modern stasis, you lose that, since what you're working towards and the methods to achieve it are more obvious
 
tzar1990 said:
Except the game is supposed to be a metaphor for politics in addition to being about robots - the ascending AI represents the Nation, with the various actors acting for its benefit but having different interpretations of its nature, and how to benefit it. By making the goal modern stasis, you lose that, since what you're working towards and the methods to achieve it are more obvious
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Unless it's a metaphor for trying to keep the system bogged down in pettiness/corruption/status quo so they can continue to profit from it personally? This is a suggestion for an antagonist splat, after all.
 
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Remember that the point of WoD games is to play metaphors for monsters. So your characters should be the monsters of politics.

The kind of people who, through the simple pursuit of their ideology and their belief in the goodness of their actions, harm entire nations. You should all want to bring about the Singularity but you should want to do so in a Your Way Or The Highway kind of deal.

So how do you force the players to act like the kind of pricks who have turned the Eurozone into the kind of place that demolishes an entire country for what seems like perfectly laudable reasons to the people doing it?

Agendas. Each cyborg has an Agenda, a mission it is supposed to bring about to ensure its version of the Singularity comes to fruition. You have your Mass Effect style red, green and blue endings. Fancy them up with some White Wolf style self aggrandizing babble and fancy titles. Posthumanis, Matrixville, whatever.

The key is that each player should have an Agenda they belong to and the important part? Agendas are the only way you get cool toys. After all, you aren't a vampire or werewolf or mage. You don't grow or gain experience or unlock arcane secrets. You are a machine. Maybe a flesh covered chrome skeleton. Maybe a sapient nanoswarm. Maybe a vatgrown bioroid. Whatever you are, you're static, set. You are From The Future, after all. Nothing in this pitiful time is going to be able to understand how your positronic disrupter field works much less augment it with a gravity inducer field.

But this is an RPG, and RPG players want to acquire cool shit. New powers. Swag.

So by achieving goals in line with your agenda you earn a special XP resource ("Temporal XP"?) and then you can spend it and, suddenly, via wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey ness it turns out that you had that mirco-sized plasma torch installed all along! You remember it being installed before being sent back in time and everything.

Ding, instant incentive to play a ruthless cuttthroat who will do anything for The Cause.

So how does the GM use this?

Well, your typical scenario should include an overall threat to The Singularity. Maybe some Resistance guys from the future are planning to murder Steve Jobs. Maybe the Senate is going to pass net neutrality laws, or not pass net neutrality laws. Whatever.

Then he works out a sub-goal for each Agenda. If you're a Kill All Humans faction maybe you have to save Steve Jobs but also make certain to kill his family so he grows callous and obsessed with his job. Maybe your Synthesis faction guy wants to not only save Steve Jobs but also inject a nanite drug into his blood that will cause him to become your slave. Whatever!

Now, some of them may be able to work together. That's fine. Politics is like that. But at least two should be incompatible. The players should be at each other's metaphorical throats. Remember to mix it up each scenario as well. So that your enemy one day is your ally the next. Make it clear that destroying each other would be counterproductive, because if they fail the overall scenario everyone loses, but always have them be willing to sell the other players out as well.
 
tzar1990 said:
Except the game is supposed to be a metaphor for politics in addition to being about robots - the ascending AI represents the Nation, with the various actors acting for its benefit but having different interpretations of its nature, and how to benefit it. By making the goal modern stasis, you lose that, since what you're working towards and the methods to achieve it are more obvious
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We aren't talking about a player faction, we're talking about the people who -

The Laurent said:
That *is* a mostly close representative of modern politics. But what's the 'Fuck making the nation better I want to get rich and screw over [Insert minority group here]' party in this scenario? I admit, maybe they're actually well-meaning, but there are assholes in politics that don't even pretend to give a shit about the 'goal.'
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- are out for themselves.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Remember that the point of WoD games is to play metaphors for monsters. So your characters should be the monsters of politics.

The kind of people who, through the simple pursuit of their ideology and their belief in the goodness of their actions, harm entire nations. You should all want to bring about the Singularity but you should want to do so in a Your Way Or The Highway kind of deal.
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Changeling: the Lost is not about playing a metaphor for a monster. Nor, for that matter, is Promethean: the Created.
 
Eukie said:
Changeling: the Lost is not about playing a metaphor for a monster. Nor, for that matter, is Promethean: the Created.
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Mage is about playing a man given phenomenal power, Hunter is about dudes that hunt, kill and sometimes eventually become monsters, Geist is about...

Whatever the hell Geist is about, I am pretty sure that it is not playing a monster.

And Mummy is about playing an ancient, amnesiac God-King with the power to raze nations and boild oceans, which is clearly not a monster.
 
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