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Well, I kind of like the version pitched in this thread, where they want to go full General Quaritch-meets-JENOVA and forge a glorious intergalactic empire of blood and thunder on the desecrated corpse of Gaia. Like, they're still fucking crazypants and evil, but it's the kind of crazypants evil that you could see people getting seduced by.

Yeah, that's sort of the opposite of where I would go with it. Basically, you need to remember that spirits want to influence the physical world, to strengthen their domain. Corruption tainted land will want to poison land around them. Spirits of specific hate will want to spreed that hate, or grow by growing their prejudice into something greater. You know that old quote -

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
"
That a how to for a spirit of hate, growing from a small specific hate and fear into something big and dark that can lash out at anyone. And spirits want to grow that way, those intelligent enough to see the path. And they grow by things that happen in the physical world. Just like Shamens and Wise Men might call upon spirits to do their work in the Umbra, because what happens beyond the veil effects our world, might a spirit do the opposite? Do business with normal men and women, so that they do the spirits work here?

And businesses will do a lot for the bottom line. You don't require some weird anti-earth cult, you just required having something that will appeal to a business, or maybe just to the people leading a business. People will do horrible things to each other for weaker reasons.

Unethical human experimentation in the United States - Wikipedia

A spirit of plague lays it's hand on the board of directors after they spread HIV tainted blood overseas. They would never again know sickness or disease.

So long as the poisonous pesticides fall on the migrant workers, the the crops will grow fast and strong. A trade of human life for the heath of the field. How else could a desert grow such a crop?

And there are many more places you can put such stories.

The driving force should be here, and human, and understandable. You can have things fully as horrific as anything canon Pentex has done, but grounded in human greed and shortsightedness.
 
So, anybody like the first chapter of my fanfic I wrote so far? I posted a second chapter just a few minutes ago.
 
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Nmage question.

One of my players is a Moros with Mind who asks if it would be possible to temporarily exchange Skills dots with a ghost or siphon them.

I see no problems with the concept but I'm not sure what level should be the spell: I'm inclined to treat it as Death 3, Mind 3 but I could underestimate the dots needed.

What do you think?
 
Nmage question.

One of my players is a Moros with Mind who asks if it would be possible to temporarily exchange Skills dots with a ghost or siphon them.

I see no problems with the concept but I'm not sure what level should be the spell: I'm inclined to treat it as Death 3, Mind 3 but I could underestimate the dots needed.

What do you think?
I think that makes sense as a weaving (3 dot) spell. Might make it cost a reach and or mana if he wants to swap multiple skills.
The only real problem I can see is that ghosts don't have skill dots. :V
 
It's on Archive Of Our Own thus outside my usual internet paths.
That being said I know by experience that managing so many crossovers isn't easy.

Anyone know the mechanics for kami in apocalypse?
Kami
So far as basic stuff about Kami.
Hengeyokai: Shapeshifters of the East
I suspect you'll need Hengeyokai: Shapeshifters of the East for more?
Can't say for sure as I've never managed to read it.
 
I'm somewhat of a fan of professional wrestling (yes, I know it's scripted and "fake". Still entertaining though) and I'm also a fan of New World of Darkness (1E, I don't like the changes made in 2E/Chronicles of Darkness), and I had a strange and crazy idea for a roleplay on here. And I'll be posting the sign-ups later today.

World of Darkness Wrestling (AKA Suplex City by Night)

It'd be an RP where the players play as wrestlers and wrestling personalities re-imagined as nWoD characters (bonus points if you can make one of their wrestling gimmicks work within a WoD context), and the following materials are in play. For now, we'll be just sticking to the corebooks, but I'll put the supplements in play as the RP advances.

It is assumed that we are using the First Edition rules for the game. No Strix, No God-Machine, no emotional deadness for vampires. Demon: The Descent and Beast: The Primordial are officially declared non-canon for the sake of this RP, as are the existence of the Strix, the Idigam, and the God-Machine.

Eligible New World of Darkness Gamelines

Vampire: The Requiem
Werewolf: The Forsaken
Mage: The Awakening
Promethean: The Created
Changeling: The Lost
Hunter: The Vigil
Geist: The Sin-Eaters
Princess: The Hopeful

You can pick any wrestler and their gimmick, past or present, living or dead, for your character. The only characters who are off limits are Chris Benoit (for obvious reasons) and Vince McMahon (He's the Prince of the city, an Invictus Ventrue Elder).

I would like to emphasize that you are playing the character/gimmick of the wrestler reimagined in the New World of Darkness, not the actual person portraying them. Wrestling characters are fictitious and do not reflect the lives of the wrestlers portraying them.

You can pick a wrestler, manager, or other on-screen personality from any of the following promotions and eras...

Eligible Wrestling Promotions

WWE (All eras from the Golden Era to the current New Era)
NXT
Total Nonstop Action (TNA)
World Championship Wrestling (WCW)
Extreme Championship Wrestling (ECW)
Smoky Mountain Wrestling
Lucha Underground

I would include more material from ROH, New Japan, CMLL, and AAA, but I don't know much about those promotions.

I'm working on the sign-ups right now.
 
Mate, you are aware that a mage can literally boost his strength to fifty with a few weeks right?

And that Geist isn't even a finished book, that just happened to be published due to typical White Wolf incompetence?

And if you don't ban the worthless piece of shit that is Geist, at least include Mummy.

I must make some ancient wrestler from the Nameless Empire, who has awakened to test his skills and strength against the modern men who call themselves "wrestlers".
 
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Yeah, but even the developers and authors ignored it because it was stupid and added nothing to the game.

I'm all for vampires being pale imitations of life, but there are better ways to do so than go "nah mang youre an emotionless philosophical zombie".
 
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Yeah, but even the developers and authors ignored it because it was stupid and added nothing to the game.

I'm all for vampires being pale imitations of life, but there are better ways to do so than go "nah mang youre an emotionless philosophical zombie".

It never said that, much as the people who whine (and whine and whine and whine) about vampirism actually being a curse like to claim it. They are not philosophical zombies. They are not emotionless.

What it says is that vampire emotions are more like memories than visceral gut reactions, resembling remembering emotions from life. When a vampire is sad, they feel like they're remembering being sad rather than having it fresh. Happiness is like the memory of being happy. The only immediate, raw feelings are the ones coming from the Beast; the hunger, the fear, the anger.
 
It never said that, much as the people who whine (and whine and whine and whine) about vampirism actually being a curse like to claim it. They are not philosophical zombies. They are not emotionless.

What it says is that vampire emotions are more like memories than visceral gut reactions, resembling remembering emotions from life. When a vampire is sad, they feel like they're remembering being sad rather than having it fresh. Happiness is like the memory of being happy. The only immediate, raw feelings are the ones coming from the Beast; the hunger, the fear, the anger.

And that's still stupid. I was actually going to write a reply correcting Manus on this point, but I realized, why bother? "This is not X stupid thing, instead it's Y stupid thing" didn't seem like a useful post to make.
 
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Either way, I invoke Rule Zero and do away with emotional deadness in my 1E games. Fuck that whiny Goth/Punk/Emo bullshit.
 
The real problem is that it's stupid, hard to roleplay or actually write (which is why almost everyone including the writers ignore it), and doesn't really contribute much. In theory it does, but in practice it's really not needed considering all of the other elements, and it also makes it harder to actually portray the decline and moral destruction if you've started by saying, "It's not real anyways." Like, if their emotions aren't real, or at least aren't real in the way human emotions are (and let's not get into the 'how the fuck would the memory thing even work?' point), then the fact that they slowly deaden themselves to them and become a monster not merely in form but all the way isn't an almost inevitable tragedy, it's an already basically achieved state.

Making vampires emotionally human allows you as a player to play out them becoming emotionally dead. Which, you know, feels plenty goth and etc to me. Which is why, again, the writers and probably a good chunk of players ignore it.
 
It never said that, much as the people who whine (and whine and whine and whine) about vampirism actually being a curse like to claim it. They are not philosophical zombies. They are not emotionless.

Admittedly, the primary reason I used 'philosophical zombie', was the fact that I really wanted to use that word, so I'll freely concede this point.:V

What it says is that vampire emotions are more like memories than visceral gut reactions, resembling remembering emotions from life. When a vampire is sad, they feel like they're remembering being sad rather than having it fresh. Happiness is like the memory of being happy. The only immediate, raw feelings are the ones coming from the Beast; the hunger, the fear, the anger.

While this is true, it doesn't really add much to the game except for more roleplay baggage players have to remember.

Admittedly, I'm not as vehemently opposed to it as my posts may indicate, and I've actually made quite a few uses for it, I just don't really think it adds a lot to the game.

I liberally apply Rule Zero to de-Goth my Vampire games. I prefer action-horror to whiny and pretentious personal horror.

Mate, the nWoD is built on a foundation of personal horror, it's the entire reason that the Beast exists, that Morality, Humanity, Harmony, Wisdom, you name it exist.

You can't take out the personal horror, because the entire game is built on it.

You can take the slider down or up, but it'll remain personal horror because systems have attitudes and themes and moods that they want to communicate and you can't make a system without one. It would be like claiming that you could write a story without a theme, it's impossible.

@The Laurent might want to speak about his experiences with MAGICAL GHOST-BLOODED systems here.
 
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The real problem is that it's stupid, hard to roleplay or actually write (which is why almost everyone including the writers ignore it), and doesn't really contribute much. In theory it does, but in practice it's really not needed considering all of the other elements, and it also makes it harder to actually portray the decline and moral destruction if you've started by saying, "It's not real anyways." Like, if their emotions aren't real, or at least aren't real in the way human emotions are (and let's not get into the 'how the fuck would the memory thing even work?' point), then the fact that they slowly deaden themselves to them and become a monster not merely in form but all the way isn't an almost inevitable tragedy, it's an already basically achieved state.

Making vampires emotionally human allows you as a player to play out them becoming emotionally dead. Which, you know, feels plenty goth and etc to me. Which is why, again, the writers and probably a good chunk of players ignore it.

But what if you play a good guy vampire (I'll allow it in my games) and you don't morally decline or become emotionally dead?

My games, being diametrically opposed to the ideas of personal horror and the trappings of the Goth and Punk subcultures, have a clear sense of good and evil. Vampires can choose to be good or evil, or somewhere in between. There are three distinct good covenants in my games (Carthians, Circle of the Crone, Ordo Dracul) and three distinct evil covenants as well (Invictus, Lancea Sanctum, Belial's Brood) with VII being an unknowable wild card.

And as for the game being entirely built on personal horror? Well, you can't write a story without a theme, that is true, but you can sure as hell change what the theme is. My games don't even use Humanity/Morality/etc.

I say fuck the themes, fuck the canon, and fuck the Goth and Punk subcultures! Do the game the way YOU want to do it, not the way that people like Justin Achilli or Martin Ericsson tell you to do.
 
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But what if you play a good guy vampire (I'll allow it in my games) and you don't morally decline or become emotionally dead?
Then... you're not playing Vampire?

My games, being diametrically opposed to the ideas of personal horror and the trappings of the Goth and Punk subcultures, have a clear sense of good and evil. Vampires can choose to be good or evil, or somewhere in between. There are three distinct good covenants in my games (Carthians, Circle of the Crone, Ordo Dracul) and three distinct evil covenants as well (Invictus, Lancea Sanctum, Belial's Brood) with VII being an unknowable wild card.
Put me down for "baffled and amused".

I say fuck the themes, fuck the canon, and fuck the Goth and Punk subcultures! Do the game the way YOU want to do it, not the way that people like Justin Achilli or Martin Ericsson tell you to do.
I can't help but glance up at the thread title and wonder why you're here.
 
Then... you're not playing Vampire?

Put me down for "baffled and amused".

I can't help but glance up at the thread title and wonder why you're here.

I'm playing Vampire, but I'm playing it MY way. Not Justin Achilli's way, not Martin Ericsson's way, but my way. That's the great thing about being the Storyteller, you can set the parameters for your own game.

I like the World of Darkness setting, but I hate the themes. So, don't even try and pull that "Some Other Game" argument on me. I don't want "Some Other Game", I want a modified World of Darkness!
 
But what if you play a good guy vampire (I'll allow it in my games) and you don't morally decline or become emotionally dead?

My games, being diametrically opposed to the ideas of personal horror and the trappings of the Goth and Punk subcultures, have a clear sense of good and evil. Vampires can choose to be good or evil, or somewhere in between. There are three distinct good covenants in my games (Carthians, Circle of the Crone, Ordo Dracul) and three distinct evil covenants as well (Invictus, Lancea Sanctum, Belial's Brood) with VII being an unknowable wild card.

And as for the game being entirely built on personal horror? Well, you can't write a story without a theme, that is true, but you can sure as hell change what the theme is. My games don't even use Humanity/Morality/etc.

I say fuck the themes, fuck the canon, and fuck the Goth and Punk subcultures! Do the game the way YOU want to do it, not the way that people like Justin Achilli or Martin Ericsson tell you to do.
>Distinct Good Convenants
>Ordo
>Crone
>hahahawhat
 
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