Hey the Uratha are not as bad as the Garou. The Mages broke the world this time!^^
They id not genocide anyone that did not deserve it, and they failed at that. And only killed one Incarna this time..
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White Wolf's World of Darkness
They id not genocide anyone that did not deserve it, and they failed at that. And only killed one Incarna this time..
Quantumboost
Now with 50% more dots in Dimensional Science
- Location
- Ensemble Space
By design won't fix.[/Exarch]
Acatalepsy
Firewall Proxy
- Location
- The Diamond Age
You'd have a hard time convincing me that the Exarchs are actually a thing in nMage. Like, they're supposedly all powerful, and the sum totally of their supposed actions is...sending visions and dreams to a bunch of mystic cultists. Um, I hate to break it to the Mage guys, but people have weird dreams and visions for all kinds of reasons and most of those reasons have nothing to do with supernatural beings, never mind specific supernatural beings that are supposedly the ones who broke reality.
Like, if someone told me that the Exarchs were a thing, I'd be asking for how, exactly, they think they know that, and I don't think there's anyone in-universe who could give me a satisfactory answer. Nothing the Seers of the Throne do is inconsistent with the hypothesis that "the Exarchs don't exist and are just something that the Seers believe for the same reasons people believe all kinds of other weird shit".
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grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Given that nWoD is supposed to be kind of toolkit-y, this seems to me to not be a problem.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Imperial Mysteries makes it pretty clear that they are real. It fails to make them interesting, but you can't fault it for that. Nothing else in the line managed that either.
Edit:
Oh, and Reign of the Exarchs doesn't make much sense without some sort of ascended masters, though what they are isn't very clear. In it's own way, it makes what the Exarchs are less certain, rather then more.
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Acatalepsy
Firewall Proxy
- Location
- The Diamond Age
I just read the core book. If the core book makes it unclear as to whether or not your antagonists exist in any meaningful sense, you're doing it wrong.
It's not a problem if it gives you an actually toolkit, rather than telling you exactly what's happening (and what's happening is nothing) .
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Exarchs aren't really supposed to be the antagonists of nMage; the Seers of the Throne are. The Exarchs provide some origin story, background elements, and explanations for their motives, but they aren't the antagonists - they're a distant not-presence that does not matter to the game except through the people who serve them. The Exarchs could, in fact, not exist; this wouldn't change the focus of the game any, except in that the undertones of the Seers as a faction would be different. They would still be the bad guys.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
No, what's happening is a lot of Navel Gazing, which is ironic because that was the accusation people threw at Ascension, which Awakening was supposed to fix.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I really don't know much about the Mage settings, and I probably should bone up on those books in case they get involved in my Quest, but I was always spotty on some of the themes. Like I know Paradox is a thing, and I know that people have complained in other forums that apparently for the purposes of crossovers any one Mage can beat two Vampires and a Werewolf with one hand tied behind his back (okay exaggerating, but people have made comparisons of Mage vs. rest of nWod similar to the ones made about Scion vs. nWod). So, not sure how I'd integrate it or whatnot, or how that'd work.
Not that anyone's mentioned poking at Mages yet, since we're still in character creation.
I've done some reading as to what they can do, but I'm not sure whether or not I should bite the bullet and just read a full book just to figure out whether or not they'll be getting up into the business of whatever character the voters wind up deciding to play for my C:TL Quest.
Not that anyone's mentioned poking at Mages yet, since we're still in character creation.
I've done some reading as to what they can do, but I'm not sure whether or not I should bite the bullet and just read a full book just to figure out whether or not they'll be getting up into the business of whatever character the voters wind up deciding to play for my C:TL Quest.
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Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
If you're crossing over any other oWoD game with some Mages in it do not under any circumstances use the actual rules from Mage: the Ascension to do so. Instead, do what the various gamelines do and just give the NPC Mages access to quirky version of the supernatural powers of whatever splat you are playing as (ie, in Vampire they should have Thaumaturgy Paths that have not Blood Points costs, in Werewolf they should have Gifts that are appropriately mystical).
Mage: The Ascension is an all-consuming juggernaught of a setting conceit, with mechanics that tie explicitly into that setting conceit and consume all else in its purview. This is because the basic premise of Ascension is that Human Are The Most Important Thing Ever and You, Specifically, Are Even More Special. This is massively at odds with the themes of every other setting in the oWoD which are usually much more full of existential horror at how puny you are in the grand scheme of things.
Dropping Ascension mages into a Werewolf campaign is like dropping Amberites into A Song of Ice and Fire.
Now, you can sorta steal some of the aesthetics for Ascension for you game. Here is how you go about it:
First, if the Mage is doing things right the players shouldn't be entirely certain they ever met a mage at all. Mage prefer coincidence over flash. Little effects. A Mage should appear lucky rather than powerful. They lead a charmed life, and tend to be good at whatever they do. Players should have to make some pretty high difficulty roles to even realize that magic is being thrown around at all, then be equally hard pressed to find the source.
Second, Mages should be the kind of people who are steeped in ancient lore and traditions. Pick a magical belief system from real life and have the Mage do everything that belief system says he should do. A Mage wouldn't call himself a Mage, he'd call himself a hermetic, or a houngan, or a faith healer or whatever.
Third, Mages should require time and preparation to be effective. If the PCs catch a Mage unprepared have them easily overwhelm him, or stop, roll some dice, look down at them in consideration for a moment and then describe how the Mage panicks and shouts something before violently turning himself inside out or being eaten by demons or something. If the PCs are confronting the Mage directly, the Mage has lost.
Mage: The Ascension is an all-consuming juggernaught of a setting conceit, with mechanics that tie explicitly into that setting conceit and consume all else in its purview. This is because the basic premise of Ascension is that Human Are The Most Important Thing Ever and You, Specifically, Are Even More Special. This is massively at odds with the themes of every other setting in the oWoD which are usually much more full of existential horror at how puny you are in the grand scheme of things.
Dropping Ascension mages into a Werewolf campaign is like dropping Amberites into A Song of Ice and Fire.
Now, you can sorta steal some of the aesthetics for Ascension for you game. Here is how you go about it:
First, if the Mage is doing things right the players shouldn't be entirely certain they ever met a mage at all. Mage prefer coincidence over flash. Little effects. A Mage should appear lucky rather than powerful. They lead a charmed life, and tend to be good at whatever they do. Players should have to make some pretty high difficulty roles to even realize that magic is being thrown around at all, then be equally hard pressed to find the source.
Second, Mages should be the kind of people who are steeped in ancient lore and traditions. Pick a magical belief system from real life and have the Mage do everything that belief system says he should do. A Mage wouldn't call himself a Mage, he'd call himself a hermetic, or a houngan, or a faith healer or whatever.
Third, Mages should require time and preparation to be effective. If the PCs catch a Mage unprepared have them easily overwhelm him, or stop, roll some dice, look down at them in consideration for a moment and then describe how the Mage panicks and shouts something before violently turning himself inside out or being eaten by demons or something. If the PCs are confronting the Mage directly, the Mage has lost.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think it's actually Awakening, since Changeling the Lost is a nWoD thing, not an oWoD, but that's all very interesting.
While NMage is a lot more crossover friendly from what I've heard of OMage a mage is going to shit on any plans involving mystery, it's just what the splat is designed to do in Awakening. The most basic practices turn jo average guy into Sherlock.
Another thing to consider is to make sure that any mage players pick a path that has nothing to do with the other players' shtick. A properly specced mage can and will outperform a werewolf dealing with spirits, a sin eater dealing with ghosts, and a changeling dealing with pacts. No one likes being in another player's shadow.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Quest here, in the forums, so it's less 'making sure players get along (since they'll be controlling a single Changeling)' then 'making sure a Mage doesn't walk up and steal our Changeling's lunch money' and 'Making sure I know what Mages can do, what might lead them to meet, and how they'd function around Changelings, just in case.' I don't know enough about the settings to know what points or bones of contention there'd be in a crossover.
It's crossover-friendly mechanically, but fluff-wise and in actual practice, yeah, Mages are at the top of the cosmic totem pole. [user]The Laurent[/user] If you're going to use Mages I'd recommend getting ahold of the Hunter book and using the powers from there, instead.
You should be fine then. Mages aren't going to go out of their way to disrupt a changeling unless said changeling is upsetting one of their current projects. Unless of course studying changelings is their current project and how badly that'll go for your protagonist depends on how sociopathic said mage is.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, because I did get the feeling that, while none of the splats were made specifically to talk about crossover games, that Mage was even less balanced against the other splats than some of them.
Acatalepsy
Firewall Proxy
- Location
- The Diamond Age
Um, how much of the words words words in the M:tAw is spent on Exarchs and the cosmology that assumes they're up there? How much is spent on the concept that reality is a prison that we're meant to awaken from. How exactly does that work if the jailors don't actually exist?
Are the Seers of the Throne even remotely interesting if they don't have any real hook into the setting? If they're just kind of deluded, how exactly are they different from any other group of mages (who happen to be assholes)?
Mages are kind of OP when compared to the other splats but that really only applies when they have necessary info and time to figure out what to do with that info. For a look at just what mages are capable of I recommend reading the first chapter of "Tome of the Mysteries". It breaks the practices and gives you a rough idea just what is possible at each dot level in the arcana.
@The Laurent Basically, think of Mages as Reality-Warping Batman: decent in a fight, although not much compared to other superheroes. Unless you give him prep time, in which case you're boned. And Mages, much like Batman, are always prepared; an insufficiently prepared mage is a dead one.
Bit of a question on NWoD mage.
So from what I'm reading there is a type of mage that can gain the Tremere Lich legacy which gives immortality at the cost of becoming a soul eating vampire.
The question I have is, why would any mage go down that path for immortality?
It seems easier/simpler to focus on the arcana of Time and freeze/revert ones age.
Or the arcana of Life to give its user perfect health.
Or Death and snip off the lifespan of the terminally ill/vegetative patients.
Does your average Mage know what possibilities open up when they study the relevant arcana enough?
Jeez the soul eating Mage must be infuriated at a Mage who just casts a single time arcana spell before bedtime that reverts all the physical changes his body went through the past day.
I mean he worked hard to mold his soul to fit that legacy!
So from what I'm reading there is a type of mage that can gain the Tremere Lich legacy which gives immortality at the cost of becoming a soul eating vampire.
The question I have is, why would any mage go down that path for immortality?
It seems easier/simpler to focus on the arcana of Time and freeze/revert ones age.
Or the arcana of Life to give its user perfect health.
Or Death and snip off the lifespan of the terminally ill/vegetative patients.
Does your average Mage know what possibilities open up when they study the relevant arcana enough?
Jeez the soul eating Mage must be infuriated at a Mage who just casts a single time arcana spell before bedtime that reverts all the physical changes his body went through the past day.
I mean he worked hard to mold his soul to fit that legacy!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
*Stares at the multiple ways for Mages to get immortality for cheap and easy when Vampires and every other splat have to work at it or have horrendous trade offs or literally drink blood not to die*
Mage OP, PLZ NERF.
The only answer that really comes to mind is this:
1. Life extension is considered taboo by the Pentacle. As in your friendly neighborhood arrow mages will burn you alive taboo. (This isn't a guess, Dave Brookshaw has stated this to be fact)
2. Using spells to extend your life is somewhat obvious unless you spend a lot of time and effort on veiling magic.
3. The only way I know of to know for sure what someone's legacy is is to rip out their soul and take a peek. (This is a big nono in general.)
Is this in a supplement?
I mean the Mysterium has a rote dedicated to extending one's life and Archmages get immortality with their Ascension.
Why would immortality be taboo? The whole point of their organizations is to have the Awakened culture grow and eventually fix the world.
Seems like that would be easier with your group having more four-hundred year old Master's on your side.
Never!
True Humanity Ascend!
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Technically, it's more like the Fallen World is the antagonist, and the Seers are Mages whose praxis is based on the supernal symbols of tyranny that reinforce the Lie, and which the Seers attribute to the Exarchs. Or at least that's where the preview of yantras seems to be going. I wish we'd gotten the Seers Order preview for second edition.
AkatsukiL13
An Enlightened Mind
- Location
- New Copernicus Station
So how does 2E WtF stack up? 1E was alright, though like most WoD lines I prefer the CWoD version, but I haven't picked 2E up yet. I liked 2E VtR over 1E and I'm hoping likewise 2E WtF is better than its predecessor.