Sorry I've been all questions lately, but I'm curious. What would most of you recommend in terms of 'how to replace 1e or 2e Fighting Styles Merits.' I've heard a lot of people say that one or both are problematic, too obviously powerful, or have issues, yet combat still needs at least some degree of granularity, or rather, making it more than just 'each side rolls one set of dice, then rolls it again until the battle ends or someone runs away.' I mean, maybe it doesn't. Feel free to suggest scrapping them and not replacing them, I'm mostly just curious about thoughts and ideas.

Which, honestly, gets into the general topic of 'How do/would you Houserule/Homebrew nWoD combat in general?'
 
Sorry I've been all questions lately, but I'm curious. What would most of you recommend in terms of 'how to replace 1e or 2e Fighting Styles Merits.' I've heard a lot of people say that one or both are problematic, too obviously powerful, or have issues, yet combat still needs at least some degree of granularity, or rather, making it more than just 'each side rolls one set of dice, then rolls it again until the battle ends or someone runs away.' I mean, maybe it doesn't. Feel free to suggest scrapping them and not replacing them, I'm mostly just curious about thoughts and ideas.

Which, honestly, gets into the general topic of 'How do/would you Houserule/Homebrew nWoD combat in general?'
I personally just rule WoD 2e combat without the Initiative modifiers from weapons, and generally ignoring the rules on spending Willpower to continue fighting. 2e Fighting Styles are generally well-designed so I welcome and encourage them for creating more options in combat.
 
Note that he's responding to people that didn't like the fact that in the revised version Beasts were made by others Beasts, which diluted the minority metaphor. He was responding to the rare people who viewed Beasts as a good metaphor for minorities that it was never intended.

the conversation is here
That would be more convincing if he didn't have things like the MRA Hero, the soccer mom that freaks out when she finds out her kid's a Beast Hero, the section on how Heroes are intolerant, ect.
 
Then he's a dirty liar that lies. That's a possibility of course. However that doesn't change that the answer of the writing team to :"Beast are dreadful minorities analogues" is "That's because they aren't." I add that if that's a lie, it's one shared by nearly every OP freelancers that testified that Matt had no idea that the text could be read like that.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.

I don't believe that the wiriting team would have denied the metaphor if that was the central concept of the game. They would have said they had mishandled it or defended it against all (The Kickstarter was never in danger to not be funded and OP buisness model meant they would have at worse sold just the corebook and took supplements to Kickstarter).
 
Academy City isn't Technocratic, its Etherite, with a bunch of individual geniuses producing miracles that no one else can understand. That's classic Sons of Ether, all about individual vision rather then group effort and standing on the shoulders of those who came before.

Also, some of them are Nephandi. Because of course they are.
Also if you got into the late story the whole world is a mishmash of kitbashed reality after past Archmages mucked it all up by their own preferences.
 
Also if you got into the late story the whole world is a mishmash of kitbashed reality after past Archmages mucked it all up by their own preferences.

Yeah, though I would mostly ignore that if I was going to run an oWoD ToAru game. Archmages don't really matter, and that's trying to keep to much of the original plot.

Hmm, I slept like crap last night, but I actually just thought about this a bit, and I'll throw a quick write up tomorrow, but Academy City works really well on some levels for what happens when a bunch of Etherites convince a bunch of Hermanics that they're right about the world, so if I was doing that, that's what I would go for.

There wouldn't be a single Crowley, and there wouldn't be a single Kihara Family. There would be a core constituency of Hermanics who got swayed by certain arguments the Sons of Ether make, and a core group of Sons of Ether. The Order of Hermes would survive their leaving, the Sons would be more seriously damaged, and become more so over time as they kept bleeding members. The might survive as a Tradition... but they might not, might end up absorbed by other groups as they disintegrate.
 
Yeah, though I would mostly ignore that if I was going to run an oWoD ToAru game. Archmages don't really matter, and that's trying to keep to much of the original plot.

Hmm, I slept like crap last night, but I actually just thought about this a bit, and I'll throw a quick write up tomorrow, but Academy City works really well on some levels for what happens when a bunch of Etherites convince a bunch of Hermanics that they're right about the world, so if I was doing that, that's what I would go for.

There wouldn't be a single Crowley, and there wouldn't be a single Kihara Family. There would be a core constituency of Hermanics who got swayed by certain arguments the Sons of Ether make, and a core group of Sons of Ether. The Order of Hermes would survive their leaving, the Sons would be more seriously damaged, and become more so over time as they kept bleeding members. The might survive as a Tradition... but they might not, might end up absorbed by other groups as they disintegrate.
What would Touma be in this setting?
 
What would Touma be in this setting?

Nothing? He doesn't have a good Mage analog other then 'sleeper,' which makes him non-special. I suppose I could barrow from the nWoD Intruders and make him some kind of horror anathema to reality that poisons any willworker who tries to shape the world near him... But I think I would get accusations of bashing.
 
Patreon Preview: WoD The Heck – Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand

So Role-Playing Public Radio recently hit the $1600/month mark on Patreon, and as a reward to their backers Ross has started releasing a series of episodes where he and Sean take Faust on a trip down the byzantine nightmare labyrinth of oWoD canon. The first episode is available publicly as a preview.

As someone whose knowledge of oWoD is entirely limited to playing Vampire: Bloodlines and skimming Werewolf, this gave me many keks.

ghost atom bombs was the name of my high school ska band
 
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Nothing? He doesn't have a good Mage analog other then 'sleeper,' which makes him non-special.
That, or a really weird mage whose paradigm is MAGIC ISN'T REAL and who is entirely loaded up with Prime countermagic and nothing else. :p

(Actually, honestly, he's probably a weird linear sorcerer or something with just the Countermagic rote if you go that route.)
 
Nothing? He doesn't have a good Mage analog other then 'sleeper,' which makes him non-special. I suppose I could barrow from the nWoD Intruders and make him some kind of horror anathema to reality that poisons any willworker who tries to shape the world near him... But I think I would get accusations of bashing.
Maybe he has some ability to reinforce the global consensus on anything he touches?
 
What would the Traditions or Technocracy make of the wizards in Young Wizards series (by Diane Duane)? Are they like VAs because changing reality is like having access codes to the root code of reality or Hermetics because they have universal language / words of power?
 
Nothing? He doesn't have a good Mage analog other then 'sleeper,' which makes him non-special. I suppose I could barrow from the nWoD Intruders and make him some kind of horror anathema to reality that poisons any willworker who tries to shape the world near him... But I think I would get accusations of bashing.

He's actually a primium android loaded with experimental Union reality stabilizing tech - unfortunately his AI is an old HITMARK's, making him good at combat but not much else. The Progenitors tried to patch it with some pheromone packages but while that made people less suspicious (though still unnervingly fixated on him) it didn't really fix the whole 'is clearly a robot' issue.
 
Maybe he has some ability to reinforce the global consensus on anything he touches?

In Academy City, Psychic powers are part of the consensus. Yeah, a linear sorcerer focused on countermagic is probably the 'best' option, but it's not a good one, and he doesn't actually have a special place in such a game.
 
Nothing? He doesn't have a good Mage analog other then 'sleeper,' which makes him non-special. I suppose I could barrow from the nWoD Intruders and make him some kind of horror anathema to reality that poisons any willworker who tries to shape the world near him... But I think I would get accusations of bashing.

Nah. Actually, he's just someone whose personal paradigm is very low-key and mundane-like.

He's got some low level sensory spheres for combat precog and conjunctual effects, a bit of life for self-buffing and healing, and then a bunch of Entropy and Prime. His Entropy comes through a focus of "Such misfortune - but I always survive". His Prime has the unique focus of "My hand" and as a result he's managed to wrangle buying it cheaply for a limited sphere that can basically only do countermagic and boosting his punches, but which meshes with his Resonance and his unique focus bonus for being really good at countermagic and antimagic fields, to the extent that it's like being punched by some horrifically antimagic primium war machine.

(That, or he's got an Incarna living in his hand and is basically just a demonhost)
 
Nah. Actually, he's just someone whose personal paradigm is very low-key and mundane-like.

He's got some low level sensory spheres for combat precog and conjunctual effects, a bit of life for self-buffing and healing, and then a bunch of Entropy and Prime. His Entropy comes through a focus of "Such misfortune - but I always survive". His Prime has the unique focus of "My hand" and as a result he's managed to wrangle buying it cheaply for a limited sphere that can basically only do countermagic and boosting his punches, but which meshes with his Resonance and his unique focus bonus for being really good at countermagic and antimagic fields, to the extent that it's like being punched by some horrifically antimagic primium war machine.

That would work really well if you're trying to build someone who does what Touma does, but that's not a 'natural' psychic talent - that's a disciplined and focused mage enforcer who built himself up to be a scary magic killer who punches out your petty attempts at mastery.

I mean, that's an interesting character, and would make sense, but it wouldn't narratively fit for Touma. Touma is the everyman whoisactuallysecretlyawesomeandgetsallthegirls. That's an elite mage enforcer trained and built to act as a control rod in for this esper-city experiment.


Um, that's not a bad thing or idea.
 
(That, or he's got an Incarna living in his hand and is basically just a demonhost)
Wouldn't need to be an Incarna as such, he could just have a spirit-blessing equivalent to an Investment (the things you get for soul-trading) that gives him like, ten+ dice of countermagic with the flaws/Taints of "only focused through his hand" and "can't actually suppress or direct it aside from the hand thing".

At least, based on my very very limited understanding of ToAru.
 
Wouldn't need to be an Incarna as such, he could just have a spirit-blessing equivalent to an Investment (the things you get for soul-trading) that gives him like, ten+ dice of countermagic with the flaws/Taints of "only focused through his hand" and "can't actually suppress or direct it aside from the hand thing".

At least, based on my very very limited understanding of ToAru.

Touma has a dragon/Lucifer demon thingy that comes out of his arm and killavates things if his hand is destroyed. Again, I don't think you should try and copy things to exactly, and I've tried to avoid thinking about individual characters because they translate much less well then setting.
 
That would work really well if you're trying to build someone who does what Touma does, but that's not a 'natural' psychic talent - that's a disciplined and focused mage enforcer who built himself up to be a scary magic killer who punches out your petty attempts at mastery.

Well, I was actually considering him to be a Marauder so it's purely subconscious with him. He's not playing by the same rules as everyone else, his very presence twists the world around him, weird things happen around him (clearly Paradox venting)...

:p
 
The more I think about it, the more I feel that there might be two conflicting theme going on here. Like Ten and Wade said, if you are going to make a story about Monsters of human legends, make them actual monsters and not Ancient Aliens or Outsiders. Otherwise it's just clunks up the narrative. The fear of something that comes from outside and the fear of something that comes from within are two very different stories. And while the latter is kind of infringing on Werewolf territory, well that's just the problem when you make a game about being Primordial Monsters when you already have a game like Werewolf.

That's doable.

Ages ago, in the time before time, you Were. You were an existence unto yourself, who needed no justification. You were a king, you were a god.

When these tiny hairless apes evolved, you thought little of them. They were beneath your notice. Sometimes one would get in your way, unfortunately for them. Sometimes they gave you tribute. You really didn't care. They were awed by you, as they should have been. And they were terrified by you, as they should have been. But you really didn't bother paying attention to them.

And then one day, you found yourself tied down ropes and chains as bronze and iron spears pierced your hide. For humans always seek to tame the awesome and destroy the terrifying.


Somehow you were able to claw your way back, drawn by their stories and their lingering fears.


I'd get rid of the feeding mechanics, personally. Beasts shouldn't feed on fear, it should not be a good thing for them. You're basically a dragon whose awesome power is straining against the limits of your mortal flesh and might at any moment explode out of your fragile human shell. And everyone around you can sense it. It causes awe, it causes fear, and you can't turn it off. It's not the same as a Promethian's Disquiet, though. It doesn't cause torches and pitchfork insanity. It's more of a "just look at that guy," thing. You're a bigshot. Powerful, dangerous. People might be relucant to deal with you, they might cross the street to avoid you, or they might just be overly eager to help you.


Beast really needs 3 things.

1) The ability to stand fully on its own.

2)An actual central theme.

3)The ability to become a motherfucking dragon in the real world, as a basic power. Because that's basically what you bought the game about being a motherfucking dragon for. If you can't flip out and get your Godzilla on, there is no point.
 
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3)The ability to become a motherfucking dragon in the real world, as a basic power. Because that's basically what you bought the game about being a motherfucking dragon for. If you can't flip out and get your Godzilla on, there is no point.
It sort of has this already. You can force your lair chambers to overlap with your current surroundings. This technically means you're in your lair which causes you to transform. Anyone that tries to run at this point just ends up deeper in your lair.
 
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