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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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Maybe doing beast as "ex-convict trying to reenter society" would work?

You've got the character who got out, he did some bad stuff but is trying to turn a new leaf, but nobody wants to hire and there's his old friend who has a job - not exactly legal, but come on, it's not that bad and with this money you can turn a new leaf - so maybe he'll fall back on his bad habits (or that's what your evil monster instincts would be a metaphor for).

Then there's the employers who don't want an ex convict so you have to hide your past (the heroes want to slay you because you're a monster) or the cops who can't see you're trying to become someone better (still the same).

That would make the whole balancing between humanity and power (balancing between trying to get a legal job or having enough money to live) and perhaps the narrative would be about those you wronged in the past (or rather their families who became heroes since I doubt you survive being a monster's victim) trying to get revenge and your old friends (monsters that are still eeeeeevil) trying to get you back in business.

The mortal body you're in might work as the prison or a suspended sentence.

Maybe.

Or maybe given I don't know much about Beast and that all I know of ex-convicts is what I see in TV shows, it's as bad an idea as what the actual writers did.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Honestly getting to play the hateful oppressor could be a good thing for a RPG if you presented it as, well, an actual Bad Thing rather than "slavery was totes good for the slave amirite" *sips mint julep*

You're the rich Civil-war era slaveholding plantation owner, the dragon, the asshole. You think of yourself as a good guy. It's a game about the cognitive dissonance of holding these different viewpoints, and a game where the default tone is a tragedy, where in the end your actions create the heroes which destroy you. You're the out of touch nobles, and your decadence while other people suffer and starve leads to the revolution and the guillotine. When the Union soldiers find your plantation they find that you've been killed by farm tools and the slaves certainly don't know what happened no sir they did not take turns avenging every sin you committed against them. You're the dictator whose mutilated body is found in a ditch next to his bombed-out custom bulletproof limo.

Kind of like the Exalted 1E 'default' tone taken to 11. You're the real monster. The point of playing is because sometimes indulging that fantasy of being the villain is fun-especially when you have the catharsis of knowing that the villain, in the end, dies. To that mechanic, I'd make it so that every time you play as the Beast, you start building each other's Heroes. Your game is about creating the very Heroes-who might not be great people either but certainly have a noble aim-that will destroy you.

To quote FEAR-"it is the nature of men to make monsters; and the nature of monsters to destroy their makers." So the campaign is about how you ended up making these specific heroes.
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So instead of the current Office the Droning it would be Executive the Madoffing? I think this would have to be a very tightly written book, which goes completely against what they seem to have gone for with being super crossover friendly.

Renu said:
Maybe doing beast as "ex-convict trying to reenter society" would work?

You've got the character who got out, he did some bad stuff but is trying to turn a new leaf, but nobody wants to hire and there's his old friend who has a job - not exactly legal, but come on, it's not that bad and with this money you can turn a new leaf - so maybe he'll fall back on his bad habits (or that's what your evil monster instincts would be a metaphor for).

Then there's the employers who don't want an ex convict so you have to hide your past (the heroes want to slay you because you're a monster) or the cops who can't see you're trying to become someone better (still the same).

That would make the whole balancing between humanity and power (balancing between trying to get a legal job or having enough money to live) and perhaps the narrative would be about those you wronged in the past (or rather their families who became heroes since I doubt you survive being a monster's victim) trying to get revenge and your old friends (monsters that are still eeeeeevil) trying to get you back in business.

The mortal body you're in might work as the prison or a suspended sentence.

Maybe.

Or maybe given I don't know much about Beast and that all I know of ex-convicts is what I see in TV shows, it's as bad an idea as what the actual writers did.
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Basically a different take on Promethean? It would be legit, albeit run into the same issue I outlined above.

I think if they want to keep the crossover status, the Beast needs to be morally grey; the books are either grey or evil, so if you want to fit in you need to go with the most neutral option here. It seems to be an Evil book right now, which doesn't work. MJ is suggestion it be an evil book with a different theme which could work; a friend of mine did a system where everyone plays an antagonist to another character in addition to their own character which I could see functioning here.

Or you could just put it in the Hunters line as a spin off of Slashers, which honestly seems to fit the current vibe best.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Honestly getting to play the hateful oppressor could be a good thing for a RPG if you presented it as, well, an actual Bad Thing rather than "slavery was totes good for the slave amirite" *sips mint julep*

You're the rich Civil-war era slaveholding plantation owner, the dragon, the asshole. You think of yourself as a good guy. It's a game about the cognitive dissonance of holding these different viewpoints, and a game where the default tone is a tragedy, where in the end your actions create the heroes which destroy you. You're the out of touch nobles, and your decadence while other people suffer and starve leads to the revolution and the guillotine. When the Union soldiers find your plantation they find that you've been killed by farm tools and the slaves certainly don't know what happened no sir they did not take turns avenging every sin you committed against them. You're the dictator whose mutilated body is found in a ditch next to his bombed-out custom bulletproof limo.

Kind of like the Exalted 1E 'default' tone taken to 11. You're the real monster. The point of playing is because sometimes indulging that fantasy of being the villain is fun-especially when you have the catharsis of knowing that the villain, in the end, dies. To that mechanic, I'd make it so that every time you play as the Beast, you start building each other's Heroes. Your game is about creating the very Heroes-who might not be great people either but certainly have a noble aim-that will destroy you.

To quote FEAR-"it is the nature of men to make monsters; and the nature of monsters to destroy their makers." So the campaign is about how you ended up making these specific heroes.
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It's a good theme and its too bad we already have Vampire which does it much better.
 
Question!

Yes, I know nobody cares about Geist, which is why it's a small question, but do Sin-Eaters look any different than normal people, whether within or without their 'thing'?

Okay, I know that sounds weird. I'm not sure whether Sin-Eaters have a Mask and Mien thing going on, but basically, do they look inhuman or obviously supernatural at any point or to each other or other groups?

Basically, I'm wondering if a certain character on witnessing someone (like, security footage) would be able to say, "Well, said person definitely was not a Sin-Eater" in the way if you saw a person walking around in the daylight you'd say, "Well, not a vampire, nope."
 
The Laurent said:
Question!

Yes, I know nobody cares about Geist, which is why it's a small question, but do Sin-Eaters look any different than normal people, whether within or without their 'thing'?

Okay, I know that sounds weird. I'm not sure whether Sin-Eaters have a Mask and Mien thing going on, but basically, do they look inhuman or obviously supernatural at any point or to each other or other groups?

Basically, I'm wondering if a certain character on witnessing someone (like, security footage) would be able to say, "Well, said person definitely was not a Sin-Eater" in the way if you saw a person walking around in the daylight you'd say, "Well, not a vampire, nope."
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They don't look any different from humans outside of certain powers.
 
The Laurent said:
Question!

Yes, I know nobody cares about Geist, which is why it's a small question, but do Sin-Eaters look any different than normal people, whether within or without their 'thing'?

Okay, I know that sounds weird. I'm not sure whether Sin-Eaters have a Mask and Mien thing going on, but basically, do they look inhuman or obviously supernatural at any point or to each other or other groups?

Basically, I'm wondering if a certain character on witnessing someone (like, security footage) would be able to say, "Well, said person definitely was not a Sin-Eater" in the way if you saw a person walking around in the daylight you'd say, "Well, not a vampire, nope."
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It's been a while since I read through the book, but IIRC, Sin Eaters look like regular people unless they're using one of their powers that makes them obviously inhuman.
 
Actually, a thought on how to do beasts as immigrants, stealing from Geist. Let them work like said Geist or Infernals and be a deal made between inhabitants of a forgotten world, the one that shaped our legends and stories. They're trying to get out as it slowly fades away so they merge with humans, leading to a bit of a stranger in a strange land issue where the resulting personality just doesn't quite fit. Most try and live peacefully but have to deal with the occasional terrorist expy who wants to start up a horde or eat some maidens. Lets you run with the whole "X group must decry all the radical extremists," great crossover potential as you are trying to navigate the new subculturess of your adopted home, and the ability to use your powers for good.

It would be a story of integrating to a new world rather than trying to force yourself upon the world.
 
The Laurent said:
Question!

Yes, I know nobody cares about Geist, which is why it's a small question, but do Sin-Eaters look any different than normal people, whether within or without their 'thing'?

Okay, I know that sounds weird. I'm not sure whether Sin-Eaters have a Mask and Mien thing going on, but basically, do they look inhuman or obviously supernatural at any point or to each other or other groups?

Basically, I'm wondering if a certain character on witnessing someone (like, security footage) would be able to say, "Well, said person definitely was not a Sin-Eater" in the way if you saw a person walking around in the daylight you'd say, "Well, not a vampire, nope."
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They have marks corresponding to how they died, but iirc those marks are only visible when viewed under certain powers.

Furthermore, when calling on their powers, other people sensitive to that stuff might at the very least know that they aren't normal, and could even get an idea of what the Sin-eater's powerset is based on (drowning powers, fire powers, ect).

Also, anyone who can view the Twilight will see the monster ghost thing hanging over their shoulder. I did mention that most Geists don't look human, right? one of the nicest looking ones looks like Saint Michael (Angel wings, halo, Flaming sword and all), while one of the worst ones has been cursed to look so horrible that everyone it's approached has died faster out of fear, just so they can get away from it before it can make a deal (those that last long enough to talk to it still choose death over what seems to be selling their soul to a cross between Lovecraft and Dante's worst nightmares).

The Laurent said:
Followup question. Gosh, do you know if Sin-Eaters can eat sins? Like, do the thing they're named after?

edit: I know this sounds like a joke, but it's a real question.
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technically yes, technically no.

They don't literally eat sin, it's a reference to something else, and is used as the in universe name by most of them, because most of them feel they owe a debt to ghosts and the afterlife, and pay it back by helping ghosts to 'pass on'. they do this by helping the ghost finish any business that they have on earth, often by righting wrongs the ghost felt guilty over (you can also just destroy it's anchors instead of resolving them, but that's mainly for ghosts that are actively malevolent and like screwing up the living world).

as such, they 'eat the sins' of ghosts, by taking the ghosts troubles onto themselves, letting the ghost pass on.

(as for why the entire splat is named after an action that is voluntary instead of mandatory... well, in universe, they aren't. 'Bound' is another term used to refer to them, but most prefer Sin-Eater, since the use of the other term is for those who don't care about fixing things with the dead, and just want to use their new powers to do whatever they want.)
 
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Xyzarach said:
Also, anyone who can view the Shadow will see the monster ghost thing hanging over their shoulder.
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And great, I hadn't read Jojo back when I read Geist and therefore couldn't make the connection. But now I can't stop envisioning Geists as Stands. They're even invisible to the uninitiated. Although to be nitpicky you mean Twilight, Shadow is Spirit plane and a bit more separated from the material world.
 
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Joebobjoe said:
And great, I hadn't read Jojo back when I read Geist and therefore couldn't make the connection. But now I can't stop envisioning Geists as Stands. They're even invisible to the uninitiated. Although to be nitpicky you mean Twilight, Shadow is Spirit plane and a bit more separated from the material world.
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Right, sorry, it's been a while since I carefully read the book. I just remembered that the place associated with Spirits (whom Geists share some traits of, and it's even theorized that a Ghost has to 'eat' a spirit to become a Geist) is called the Shadow, and I just blanked on there being 4-5 entirely different planes of existence overlaid on reality, and thought that with all the similar terms they go to the same place (why the hell did I think that? *Headdesk*.)

Also, thank you, I fixed it.
 
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The Laurent said:
Yes, I know nobody cares about Geist, which is why it's a small question, but do Sin-Eaters look any different than normal people, whether within or without their 'thing'?
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They look like normal people, unless manifesting certain combinations of their powers.

The Laurent said:
Okay, I know that sounds weird. I'm not sure whether Sin-Eaters have a Mask and Mien thing going on, but basically, do they look inhuman or obviously supernatural at any point or to each other or other groups?
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They only look different to beings that can perceive twilight, where their Uber Ghost follows them around like their own personal Ryuk from Death Note.

The Laurent said:
Basically, I'm wondering if a certain character on witnessing someone (like, security footage) would be able to say, "Well, said person definitely was not a Sin-Eater" in the way if you saw a person walking around in the daylight you'd say, "Well, not a vampire, nope."
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Nope. Not unless they're manifesting certain combinations of powers.

The Laurent said:
Followup question. Gosh, do you know if Sin-Eaters can eat sins? Like, do the thing they're named after?
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Nope. Onyx has, recently, been trying to shy away from using the term Sin-Eater even. They've gravitated towards 'ghost walkers' (essentially good necromancers) in recent times. Basically, Sin-Eaters are supposed to be the Supernatural Ghostbusters to a certain extent. Either helping ghosts pass on (if a ghosts 'business', the stuff they felt was unfinished when they died, is completed, they pass on) or banishing the bad ones by smashing up all their anchors (So, for example, the ghost of a murderer out to keep killing forever) and banishing them to the Underworld where they can rot and hopefully either end up destroyed or pulled down by the 'gravity' of the underworld and then it becomes 'out of sight, out of mind'.
 
So, I got home tonight, and decided to throw a random movie on to unwind. Then, about halfway through the movie, I realized it was an Ascension plot...

Now You See Me:
A bunch of initiate mages decide to rip off the Technocracy with the help of their secret mentor.

Anyone else have this 'issue'? Where you constantly start seeing things through the 'lens' the World of Darkness (both oWoD and nWoD).
 
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I didn't even realize what you were talking about at first. Not big on Anime / Manga for the most part personally.
 
theweepingman said:
...well, A Scientific Railgun would make a nice Technocratic campaign. *idle thought while walking to the campus*
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Academy City isn't Technocratic, its Etherite, with a bunch of individual geniuses producing miracles that no one else can understand. That's classic Sons of Ether, all about individual vision rather then group effort and standing on the shoulders of those who came before.

Also, some of them are Nephandi. Because of course they are.
 
Here's the post on the "minorities are not the intended metaphor of Beast

BlackHat_Matt;19100348 said:
But that metaphor (which was never intended, BTW) didn't work. While I don't agree with the criticism that some folks made that the Children were in some way reminiscent of the 1%, but it's hard to see Beasts as marginalized when the only point of comparison is that they're born with their situation and have a moment where it suddenly makes sense.
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Note that he's responding to people that didn't like the fact that in the revised version Beasts were made by others Beasts, which diluted the minority metaphor. He was responding to the rare people who viewed Beasts as a good metaphor for minorities that it was never intended.

the conversation is here
 
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MJ12 Commando said:
Honestly getting to play the hateful oppressor could be a good thing for a RPG if you presented it as, well, an actual Bad Thing rather than "slavery was totes good for the slave amirite" *sips mint julep*

You're the rich Civil-war era slaveholding plantation owner, the dragon, the asshole. You think of yourself as a good guy. It's a game about the cognitive dissonance of holding these different viewpoints, and a game where the default tone is a tragedy, where in the end your actions create the heroes which destroy you. You're the out of touch nobles, and your decadence while other people suffer and starve leads to the revolution and the guillotine. When the Union soldiers find your plantation they find that you've been killed by farm tools and the slaves certainly don't know what happened no sir they did not take turns avenging every sin you committed against them. You're the dictator whose mutilated body is found in a ditch next to his bombed-out custom bulletproof limo.

Kind of like the Exalted 1E 'default' tone taken to 11. You're the real monster. The point of playing is because sometimes indulging that fantasy of being the villain is fun-especially when you have the catharsis of knowing that the villain, in the end, dies. To that mechanic, I'd make it so that every time you play as the Beast, you start building each other's Heroes. Your game is about creating the very Heroes-who might not be great people either but certainly have a noble aim-that will destroy you.

To quote FEAR-"it is the nature of men to make monsters; and the nature of monsters to destroy their makers." So the campaign is about how you ended up making these specific heroes.
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Slick Asshole: The Comeuppance! Play as Cruella de Vil and by taken down by Dalmatians. Now you can play as all of your favorite Disney villains. Using the Tarquin (from Order of the Stick) rationale for Villainy don't worry about your eventual downfall worry about the cool time you'll have while you're in power.

AshenFox said:
So, I got home tonight, and decided to throw a random movie on to unwind. Then, about halfway through the movie, I realized it was an Ascension plot...

Now You See Me:
A bunch of initiate mages decide to rip off the Technocracy with the help of their secret mentor.

Anyone else have this 'issue'? Where you constantly start seeing things through the 'lens' the World of Darkness (both oWoD and nWoD).
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Old White Wolf books used to actually do that. They would list movies, books and shows that could be used for inspiration. The Mage revised Storyteller's Handbook actually had lines like:

Virtual Adepts
Ghosts in the Shell
Mage Chronicle: The characters must track down an entity in the Digital Web that alters the memories of Sleepers using the Internet.

and
Terminator
Mage Chronicle: A team of HITMarks travels to the past to destroy a powerful Tradition mage before he Awakens.

they even had ones for the Tecnocratic Conventions like:

Mission Impossible
Mage Chronicle: The Amalgam has been sold out and must prove its innocence before the Ivory Tower.
 
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It's surely the fact that it's part of the subject of my master thesis but I see Vampire the Masquerade's elements in every vampire flick or novel produced after the 90's

Of course the vampires war against the werewolves
Of course they have superpowers
Of course they hide their existence from the mortals by elaborate conspiracies
Oh a tremendous ancient vampire.
 
WhatIf said:
Virtual Adepts
Ghosts in the Shell
Mage Chronicle: The characters must track down an entity in the Digital Web that alters the memories of Sleepers using the Internet.
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Of course, GiTS is so Technocratic it hurts. The protagonists are a state-sponsored government black-book hit team. They do things like jump off buildings and murder diplomats and "break the law to defend the law" and all the usual ways that Technocrats self-justify. They're the Man, working within institutions rather than against them. They have high tech gear and weapons . Hell, "Public Security Section 9" is exactly the kind of bland name that an amalgam might be given.

(And Aramaki is an excellent NWO supervisor of the "not actually the main antagonist to the party" model.)

Now, the Laughing Man might as well have been written as the holotype of a Virtual Adept, yes.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Of course, GiTS is so Technocratic it hurts. The protagonists are a state-sponsored government black-book hit team. They do things like jump off buildings and murder diplomats and "break the law to defend the law" and all the usual ways that Technocrats self-justify. They're the Man, working within institutions rather than against them. They have high tech gear and weapons . Hell, "Public Security Section 9" is exactly the kind of bland name that an amalgam might be given.

(And Aramaki is an excellent NWO supervisor of the "not actually the main antagonist to the party" model.)

Now, the Laughing Man might as well have been written as the holotype of a Virtual Adept, yes.
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You want a Virtual Adept chronicle you want Serial Experiments Lain.

Like, if I was running a Mage Chroncile I'd probably just make the players watch that and say "That? That is the game."
 
Aaron Peori said:
You want a Virtual Adept chronicle you want Serial Experiments Lain.

Like, if I was running a Mage Chroncile I'd probably just make the players watch that and say "That? That is the game."
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Yep. SE: Lain is made of VAness.

(It's a good example of how I feel the purple paradigm weakens oMage - SE: Lain wouldn't be half as fun or ball-tripping if you had someone in-universe running around going 'Oh, Wired!Lain is just her Avatar" and providing explanations.)
 
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