AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
And hopefully we wont.
White Wolf's World of Darkness
As cool as that sounds I'm pretty sure that would break all the things. All of them. People complain about Solars being too op in the game where they are the core pc type. Can you even imagine what they'd do to our poor CofD supes?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can't be any worse than what Mages do on a regular basis.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
i'm pretty sure i've heard people who know a lot about mechanics say that Mages >>>> most things in exalted, including exalts.
I'm going to let smarter and more experienced individuals refute this properly but to my knowledge any properly prepared Solar, any solar that makes it past the first year, should have defenses that would shut down damn near anything mages up to and including the Exarches could throw at them. At least, this is my limited understanding of Solar hax.
- Location
- Spain
in pure power and versatility Mages beat Exalts; A Mage can do literally anthing in the proper circunstances.
That said, in a simple combat contest, i would put an Hypotetical average Exalt above a Mage, simply because the Exalt could shut down any initial atack with a perfect defense and counteratack with an absurdly buffed perfect atack.
But yeah, a Exalt doesn't break the setting any more than a Mage.
That said, in a simple combat contest, i would put an Hypotetical average Exalt above a Mage, simply because the Exalt could shut down any initial atack with a perfect defense and counteratack with an absurdly buffed perfect atack.
But yeah, a Exalt doesn't break the setting any more than a Mage.
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hahaha. Nnnnope. It depends what edition you're using, but if a Master of Space chooses to sit in a Hollow and continuously drop grenades on the Solar's exact location, there is fuck-all the Solar can do about it. It's not a direct attack, so their bullshit teleport-counterattack put in to try and (unsuccessfully) solve the Solar Railgun problem doesn't work, and the mage can just keep doing it every time they PD until the Solar runs out of motes and dies. The Technocracy can simply overwhelm an Exalt with dozens of Perfect-or-Die attacks every second, which means the Solar can't do anything but desperately hit their full paranoia defence every action until they're mote-tapped to death even faster.
And that's ignoring the fact that master mages can do things that make elder Solars turn green with envy. 1-dot Spheres/Arcanae are immensely powerful information-gathering tools, and a mage's life hinges on information superiority - not just in Awakening but also in Ascension to some extent. A mage that lets a Solar get into combat range without having worked out roughly what they are (qualitatively, at least) and developed a counter is a pretty shit mage. A mage that's found by a Solar after having done this is even dumber.
And that's ignoring the fact that master mages can do things that make elder Solars turn green with envy. 1-dot Spheres/Arcanae are immensely powerful information-gathering tools, and a mage's life hinges on information superiority - not just in Awakening but also in Ascension to some extent. A mage that lets a Solar get into combat range without having worked out roughly what they are (qualitatively, at least) and developed a counter is a pretty shit mage. A mage that's found by a Solar after having done this is even dumber.
Quantumboost
Now with 50% more dots in Dimensional Science
- Location
- Ensemble Space
Pattern Spider Touch them into lawnchairs?
- Location
- Spain
Oh sure, not negating that. Is just that i meant an hypotetical average Exalt against a hypotetical average Mage. Not an Average Exalt against a Master of space.
And of course the Technocrats can murderice a Solar with pure numbers, but i was doing a simple 1 vs 1 test.
And of course the Technocrats can murderice a Solar with pure numbers, but i was doing a simple 1 vs 1 test.
Last edited:
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Cool beans. Even if it works on mage magic, how does it stop me teleporting a bunch of grenades ten yards above your head? Repeatedly.
In which case the mage almost certainly still has information superiority, and the Exalt isn't as good at swording and doesn't have a comprehensive defensive suite against Absolutely Everything whose only weakness is "running out of motes to power it". I was assuming Invincible Sword Princess or Glorious Solar Railgun vs master of Space, and they both still lose.
The IPP tree is not as useful as you'd think because it only shuts down specific forms of Shaping. Also, it has a range measured in yards so "Endless Predator Hellfire Strike Prana" is a pretty useful tool against it.
If you're feeling prickly, technically IPP wouldn't stop a master of Space or Correspondence from casting a permanent enchantment on a Solar which says "every time you attack, the attack is redirected to you" because at no time is the Solar actually attacked (their mind, body, and traits are not affected) by an action which requires no attack roll. Which might cost paradox but it is so worth it solely so you can go "stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Please stop hitting yourself."
Nothing. If you've got the time, manpower, and ammo to just bury the solar in attacks then you'll get him eventually. It's the time honored strategy employed by the Realm to kill solars. Good luck figuring this out before he guts you though.
- Location
- Spain
Look, the thing more similar to a Solar in oMage would be a pretty buff Spirit that is inmune to most direct magic. I guess we can agree in that?
A mage capable of defeating that wins easily. A mage that doesn't, not.
Going back to the initial point, a Exalt doesn't break anything that a Mage doesn't.
A mage capable of defeating that wins easily. A mage that doesn't, not.
Going back to the initial point, a Exalt doesn't break anything that a Mage doesn't.
Last edited:
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also also, if you're playing Ascension, saying "THIS AREA WORKS BY CREATION'S LAWS NOT YOURS I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK" is prooooobably not a good idea unless you're totes cool with Consensus booting you out into a Paradox Realm.
... yeah, that's not hard. Because. You know. Mages have information superiority, casual access to scrying and are - whichever side or edition they're part of - accustomed to looking for Weird Shit. Whereas a Solar trying to find a mage is going to sadface. A lot. Especially if they have any dots of Corr or Entropy.
Nah as @EarthScorpion has established via power-scaling, a Solar is actually a Hunter. You see, Do is a Primordial Martial art, putting it above Celestial and Sidereal Martial Arts the same way Primordial/Solar Circle Sorcery is better than Celestial circle sorcery.
Therefore we must remember that random Akashic consors have stronger charms than Solars do.
I mean... on the one hand, that works by RAW.
But on a narrative note... what, Orabilis can't throw ancient secrets made solid through the paths Beyond to do, uh, exactly the same thing?
Maybe that works on a random canon Solar, but if that Exaltation keeps running around you're going to find Exalts showing up with "Stab the Seer's Eyes Prana" or whatnot. Either perfect Stealth, or Malfean Stealth, beats the scry-and-die.
And on a random note, does anyone know where I can find rules for building augmentations and enhancements? @MJ12 Commando doesn't seem to be using anything resembling the Mage rules - I'm well aware that White Wolf sucks at rule-building, so is that an intentional balance choice or just a "I like augs" thing? (If it's the former, maybe I can sell @notanautomaton on them
)
But on a narrative note... what, Orabilis can't throw ancient secrets made solid through the paths Beyond to do, uh, exactly the same thing?
Maybe that works on a random canon Solar, but if that Exaltation keeps running around you're going to find Exalts showing up with "Stab the Seer's Eyes Prana" or whatnot. Either perfect Stealth, or Malfean Stealth, beats the scry-and-die.
And on a random note, does anyone know where I can find rules for building augmentations and enhancements? @MJ12 Commando doesn't seem to be using anything resembling the Mage rules - I'm well aware that White Wolf sucks at rule-building, so is that an intentional balance choice or just a "I like augs" thing? (If it's the former, maybe I can sell @notanautomaton on them
)
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mages do their stuff in hostile reality all the damn time. Like, that's basically the default assumption.
It's a case of linear warriors versus quadratic wizards. A starting Exalt will beat a starting Mage because the Exalts a superhuman dude with kung fu wizardry and a fuck off huge sword while the Mage is mostly a normal guy with some magic. In a whiteroom fight, the Exalt wins. Here's the thing though: it'll never be a whiteroom fight. If the Mage manages to prepare, the Exalt is fucked.
This get's worse and worse the farther you go up the power stat as Mages get exponentially more powerful and flexible much, much faster than the Exalt. Eventually, the Mage will be able to hold enough combat enhancements to beat the Exalt in a straight up fight. Sennex or Voormas would turn elder Exalts to mulch.
Let's not even talk about the Unnamed.
Last edited:
Sure a single Exalt isn't going to make too much of a fuss before the powers that be send him packing. Now if the entire exalted host gets dropped in upstate New York, shit is going to get real and fast.
And on a random note, does anyone know where I can find rules for building augmentations and enhancements? @MJ12 Commando doesn't seem to be using anything resembling the Mage rules - I'm well aware that White Wolf sucks at rule-building, so is that an intentional balance choice or just a "I like augs" thing? (If it's the former, maybe I can sell @notanautomaton on them
There are absolutely no rules for it outside of the universal Talisman-building rules in Forged by Dragon's Fire, which are really hard to dissect. I guess they sort of make sense if you poke at them enough?
Exomuscle
Arete 3: 3 points
Permanent Better Body (+Arete dots of physicals), 1 point
Permanent Better Body (+Arete dots of physicals), 1 point
Soak Lethal/Aggravated, 1 point
Permanent Better Body (+Arete HLs), 1 point
Permanent Better Body (+Arete HLs), 1 point
+Arete in Armor/CM, 1 point
-3 flaw: +3 permanent paradox, -3 points, net cost, 6 points
Note that this probably gets really, really imbalanced very very fast.
Quantumboost
Now with 50% more dots in Dimensional Science
- Location
- Ensemble Space
To preempt things getting too absurd, there's a rule of thumb I like to use for Exalted/WoD comparisons, especially with Mage: the Ascension, to avoid the silly vs debate shenanigans with "everything is Shaping".
Every Charm and Spell can be said to be "shaping" Essence into the effect, so find the closest match of a Spell or Charm to what the Mage is doing. If-and-only-if the specified defense works against those, it works against the Mage's thing.
This neatly does away with claims of Integrity-Protecting Prana stopping plasma bolts when it doesn't stop Lambent Bolt of Annihilation or Obsidian Death of Butterflies, without dismissing either gameline out-of-hand.
Every Charm and Spell can be said to be "shaping" Essence into the effect, so find the closest match of a Spell or Charm to what the Mage is doing. If-and-only-if the specified defense works against those, it works against the Mage's thing.
This neatly does away with claims of Integrity-Protecting Prana stopping plasma bolts when it doesn't stop Lambent Bolt of Annihilation or Obsidian Death of Butterflies, without dismissing either gameline out-of-hand.
AshenFox
Copy Control, we are a go.
- Location
- Sector 13
For oWoD or nWoD?And on a random note, does anyone know where I can find rules for building augmentations and enhancements? @MJ12 Commando doesn't seem to be using anything resembling the Mage rules - I'm well aware that White Wolf sucks at rule-building, so is that an intentional balance choice or just a "I like augs" thing? (If it's the former, maybe I can sell @notanautomaton on them
Not if it enforces Creation's Consensus.
...Which is probably similar to the Dreamspeaker's Paradigm now that I think about it.
But in NWoD...I guess the Abyss would be Oblivion?
Last edited:
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... Orabilis has no connection to the Beyond, so no. Exalted has as a setting axiom that long-range teleportation is an incredibly cost-intensive and difficult thing that nothing has native access to, so no again. And Exalted Stealth Charms/anti-scrying Spells like PPoDE are no different from Correspondence warding, which means that a mage sat in a Hollow can simply ritual-cast their scrying to build up an xbox-hueg number of successes to break through it.
... which... is still a bubble of different reality in oWoD Consensus, like a Marauder's Quiet, and therefore gets shunted out into a Paradox Realm.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Wouldnt Infernals be a better match for mages?