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Tower of Babel: A Bronze Age Space Civ Quest

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OldShadow said:
Yes, for example every Mundanes as access to abundant clean fresh water...but no plumbing. Need to go to a public fountain.
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We probably have much more food variety than our era would suggest, not to mention the benefits of the Hive Queen's Crowning and the Tower of Life's work. The availability of food likely varies much more by season than a "normal" modern civ though.
 
Adhoc vote count started by OldShadow on Dec 7, 2023 at 2:02 PM, finished with 32 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Plan don't overlook the mundane
    [X] Plan Between Celestial and Base
    -[X] From Desert to Gardens [0/1] [Mundane]
    -[X] Prophecy of Cradle's Belt [0/1] [Consume 1 Scale]
    -[X] Lunar Pilgrimage [0/1] [Use 1 Scale]
    -[X] Raise Temple-Workshops [0/1]
    -[X] Schooling on the Harmony of Minds [0/1]
    [X] Pay What is Due
    [X] Getting Started
    - [X] Bring Peace to the Seas [0/1] 1 Action
    - [X] Carve the World-Spine [0/1] 1 Mundane Action
    - [X] From Desert to Gardens [0/1] 1 Action
    - [X] Bind the Storms [0/1] [Storms] [Consume 1 Scale] 1 Action
    - [X] Raise Temple-Workshops [0/1] 1 Action
    [X] Getting Started
    -[X] Bring Peace to the Seas [0/1] 1 Action
    - [X] Carve the World-Spine [0/1] 1 Mundane Action
    -[X] Bind the Storms [0/1] [Storms] [Consume 1 Scale] 1 Action
    -[X] Raise Temple-Workshops [0/1] 1 Action
    -[X] Schooling on the Harmony of Minds [0/1] 1 Action
    [X] Pay What is Due
    -[X] Lunar Pilgrimage [0/1] 1 Action
    -[X] From Desert to Gardens [0/1] 1 Mundane Action
    -[X] Instruction on Inborn Command [0/1] 1 Action
    -[X] Prophecy of Cradle's Belt [0/1] 1 Action
    -[X] Explore Times forgotten [Ruins] [0/1]
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Current tally
I will close the vote in one day.
 
yeah, i'd imagine that most of the food that people get is still rather perishable unless it's preserved. however, people can probably get much more food from the harvest in each season than before the philosophers came, as i imagine the living tower helps with food in ways beyond just the empress. another big difference between ourselves and other civilizations culturally is likely to be how our entertainment is structured. the stories we tell ourselves literally have power in our civilization through the tower that thinks. i imagine that those philosophers when they want to make a change to society introduce a story to percolate the idea throughout civilization, adapting the idea per culture to get the effect they want. that deliberate, effectual storytelling is going to be rather different to our technological neighbors, even if they understand that stories reflect culture, they aren't going to have the mastery over it we have.

as well, the structure of our society is going to be massively different, as this is before the nuclear family. hell, before the true dissolution of tribes the family you're from and the people you know are going to be based on each other, your knowledge of your cousins and your cousins cousins are something you keep meticulous track of.
 
[X] Plan Between Celestial and Base

Ahhh, slightly too late for the opening salvo of the vote, but i genereally agree with most of the points in this plan. Seems like a solid start turn. with some decentish potential for synergies
 
I wonder what sort of supernatural equipment the Doomed have. Anima infused armor seems likely, and if they don't have that we should make it eventually, because discount power armor. Charms against bad luck from the white tower perhaps, maybe some living weapons or medicines from the Living tower?

On this note, we should put some work into improving the Doomed. They're extremely likely to be a critical part of our expansion and any wars we engage in. War for obvious reasons, but expansion for their ability to redirect bad luck upon themselves, an ability which could be very useful in colonization efforts.
 
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From Desert to Gardens [0/1] [Mundane]
Prophecy of Cradle's Belt [0/1] [Consume 1 Scale]
Lunar Pilgrimage [0/1] [Use 1 Scale]
Raise Temple-Workshops [0/1]
Schooling on the Harmony of Minds [0/1]

to analyze the philosophical implications behind the celestial and the base: first off, as its name implies, it balances between the stars and the earth, with a slight bias towards the earth, as is to be expected when recovering from disaster. we still pay our dues to the moon, as is proper, and possibly avoid the shielding moon intervening in our ritual to attract comets and asteroids out of spite from being ignored. the plan doesn't completely balance the towers used, since we are using the mundanes to do the work of the living tower, however, two of the actions are done by the white tower, those being harmony of minds and cradle's belt, and this corresponds with our civilization's greater mastery of the arts of fate, so will possibly be amplified. the synergy between the temple-workshops and the harmony is well thought out and should amplify the workings of both as the workers become gears in a machine of production.

the worry i have is the order in which we enact the recovery from the scars of doom. we're starting with the earth, so where do we go next, do we calm the seas, go up the mountains and reach for the skies? do we dig deeper in the earth before looking outwards across the world and then up? we need to ponder upon the proper order and the story we tell in our actions so that we may achieve the maximum effect with the correct means
 
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Lord_Abaddon said:
the wory i have is the order in which we enact the recovery from the scars of doom. we're starting with the earth, so where do we go next, do we calm the seas, go up the mountains and reach for the skies? do we dig deeper in the earth before looking outwards across the worlds and then up? we need to ponder upon the proper order and the story we tell in our actions so that we may achieve the maximum effect with the correct means
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The reason we're starting with the earth is because of the risk of biosphere collapse. As much as we must worry about narrative, we should also worry about the actual physical world and the natural processes that act upon it.

For the next I propose we bind up the Storms and investigate the ruins. Eliminate the risks, and then we can finally proceed with expanding our reach across Cradle to the seas and the mountains.
 
no, i don't disagree with the starting action, it is necessary. but the next actions we take, especially in conjunction with the other actions in the turn, are important for the narrative we set for the recovery of our planet. prioritizing the active disasters before expanding our reach is a good narrative for our recovery though, so that's a good idea. the question is, if that's what we're going for, what we synergize that with next turn.

we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves, since the vote isn't even called yet, though. speaking of which, i implore people to vote for celestial and base or pay our dues, and reiterate that we need to consider the philosophical implications of our actions, and not just the rewards that they gain us. proper combinations will gain us more than just what's said on the tin, after all
 
dgr11897 said:
I wonder what sort of supernatural equipment the Doomed have. Anima infused armor seems likely, and if they don't have that we should make it eventually, because discount power armor. Charms against bad luck from the white tower perhaps, maybe some living weapons or medicines from the Living tower?

On this note, we should put some work into improving the Doomed. They're extremely likely to be a critical part of our expansion and any wars we engage in. War for obvious reasons, but expansion for their ability to redirect bad luck upon themselves, an ability which could be very useful in colonization efforts.
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Doomed don't have supernatural equipements.
And by the nature of Philosophy, Doomed will be more probably upgraded with large-scale blessing or creating a source of superior material for Mundane craft.
You can't perform a Working for every Doomed, it would take centuries of constant work by the Order.
 
We can probaly use the mundane for the Doomed though. Their whole thing is massive scale work without using actual magical. So if we were to take the stuff about teaching mundanes better crafting, and the temple crafting, we might be seeing expert blacksmith crafting higher tier normal equipment as a minor boon to all the Doomed as a larger institution,.
 
OldShadow said:
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True. But we can use magic on smaller scales than a full scale working right? Like how the moon expedition has Anima infused robes and blessings, though those are sort of part of the larger working.

Though I get your meaning overall. I do still like the idea of a power armor/Mecha equivalent using Anima though.
 
dgr11897 said:
True. But we can use magic on smaller scales than a full scale working right? Like how the moon expedition has Anima infused robes and blessings, though those are sort of part of the larger working.
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The moon expedition is a good exemple.
It take years to send about 50 people with protections on the moon, who are Philosophers.
So yes, you can use magic on a smaller scale.
But the action to give enchanted equipement to the Doomed would take something like 100 AP.
EDIT :
Will World as Chessboard is a good example of the sort of blessing you can do : one Working, and on an entire planet, you can attract harm to any person who voluntarily swear an oath.
Which is an interesting factor that strengthen the Working : you cannot force someone to be Doomed.
 
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one of the big things to remember when we craft magical items is that each of those is legendary. each one has a story like, our space robes being handspun from night-gathered spider silk and weaved only during the full moon, then enchanted under the moonless light of auspicious stars. they are inherently non-mass producible
 
alright, since it's tied for leading plan, let's look at don't overlook the mundane.

Bring Peace to the Seas [0/1] 1 Action
Carve the World-Spine [0/1] 1 Mundane Action
Bind the Storms [0/1] [Storms] [Consume 1 Scale] 1 Action
Raise Temple-Workshops [0/1] 1 Action
Schooling on the Harmony of Minds [0/1] 1 Action

it focuses very heavily on scale, like its sister plan getting started, however it makes a hard mistake in that in maximizing our scale while ignoring the earth by not including from deserts to gardens. it also very heavily leans towards the white tower and the tower that thinks, while minimizing the sundial tower and sidelining the living tower. while it does well in the synergy between the temple workshops and the harmony of minds combining those without the gardens falls further into the narrative of exploiting our mother earth instead of repairing it and paying our dues to repair the damage. i can appreciate the wish for greater scale, but i don't think that it should come at the cost of our biosphere and the poor narrative that it falls into.
 
My plan was all about repairing the world we live on. We would mend the damage and when that was done we could focus on more esoteric things. I imagine the moon won't care that much so long as we do it. Time scale for it even with magic is bound to be different to that of humans. Besides isn't this a good way of showing our respect to the world while improve skills. That way we can devote more later on.
 
Ancient One said:
My plan was all about repairing the world we live on. We would mend the damage and when that was done we could focus on more esoteric things. I imagine the moon won't care that much so long as we do it. Time scale for it even with magic is bound to be different to that of humans. Besides isn't this a good way of showing our respect to the world while improve skills. That way we can devote more later on.
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It does focus on repairing cradle, yes. However I believe it mono focuses too much and rushes it to exploit the planet, especially with the creation of mundane industry without giving back to them. We need to balance our approach and focus on synergies. Repairing an entire planet is a laborious effort, and trying to rush it is prone to produce mistakes. Your plan does balance the towers well, but I just think that it doesn't produce a proper narrative.
 
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Lord_Abaddon said:
yeah, i'd imagine that most of the food that people get is still rather perishable unless it's preserved. however, people can probably get much more food from the harvest in each season than before the philosophers came,
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Eh, that doesn't seem to be supported by the text. We know the hives provide "honey and food-paste" that lasted for 50 years (wait, how long is our year anyway? The same as Earth year?). We also know that meat and spices are luxury we give to people in our craft contest. So it seem most of mundanes food is something like extrenely long-lived dense food paste that prefectly edible and not require much preparation, but also not the most colorful or appealing while "normal food" is somewhat of a rare thing.

Before I go to bed, I was debating between voting for Between Celestial and What is Due. Well since not all that much people vote for the latter...
[X] Plan Between Celestial and Base

Kinda wish we can get Instruction on Inborn Command done, but oh well.
 
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Important question @OldShadow, can we eventually unlock the use of the Philosophy/magic practiced by the other towers we had the option to pick at the start?

Particularly interested in the arts of Summoning and Matter, as Matter pairs very well with Animation, providing stronger bodies to contain Anima with, while Summoning I feel would pair well with the "God" part of our God cities and the beliefs of the Sundial tower about the innate value of mankind, as well as generally being useful as supernatural servants with powers in different areas from our Golems.
 
IamtooSleepy said:
Eh, that doesn't seem to be supported by the text. We know the hives provide "honey and food-paste" that lasted for 50 years (wait, how long is our year anyway? The same as Earth year?). We also know that meat and spices are luxury we give to people in our craft contest. So it seem most of mundanes food is something like extrenely long-lived dense food paste that prefectly edible and not require much preparation, but also not the most colorful or appealing while "normal food" is somewhat of a rare thing.
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A year on Cradle is about 360 days, so just a little less than an Earth year.
Since the God-Cities are populated by millions of people and must be feed with the products of large fields at your current tech level, most food supplies must be easy to transport and long-lasting, to prevent waste, so food-paste (witch is basically digested food regurgitated in a dense paste) and honey (witch is basically the same thing but sugary) are the main staples, even if the paste is regularly dried and used as a kind of floor for noodles and bread, or used to make soup.
Food made with other plants and cereals are somewhat rarer (eaten about once a week) and animal products are a luxury, eaten at best once a month, and for most people a few times per year.
Creating Metropolis with Bronze Age tech, even with magic, impose sacrifices, since your people have no refrigeration and no widespread transports faster than a barge or a horse.

dgr11897 said:
Important question @OldShadow, can we eventually unlock the use of the Philosophy/magic practiced by the other towers we had the option to pick at the start?
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Yes, you will. My plan for the Tower is that you need to discover an inspiration during play, through exploration or research, and develop this insight through a quest to make a Tower.
If you want an example, I highly recommend to read how new gods where unlocked in Unto the Heavens, Glory on Spacebattles.
 
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