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[X] Don't use the device. If she wants to talk, she can call you. She can't be that sincere if she won't even try a simple call.

Yeah, no. Reacting to the enemy and doing what they want is a horrible idea. We can smoke the Ardat Yakshi out with a few more turns or so without this.
 
Well, yes.

The thing I'm trying to get at is that unless you want technology to be entirely static and stagnant across centuries, there needs to be a plausible pathway for technological evolution. This is something you yourself have commented on- that it's a bit tricky to do this for Mass Effect, because of how little "wiggle room" you have to work with in terms of "I need to make this technology obviously inferior to that of the game era, but still recognizable as Mass Effect tech and capable of supporting interstellar civilization."

So I'm attempting to describe, not a path for technological evolution that has already happened, but for technological evolution that might happen.

And my point is that one predictable direction of evolution for torpedoes in particular is the introduction of nuclear shaped charges and/or bomb pumped laser designs.

For the reasons discussed, ship designers are unlikely to be truly content with their ships being sitting ducks for the first torpedo launched at them. "Under the hood" of what you have described happening in setting, there is presumably some attempt to create countermeasures to the nuclear torpedo. After all, engineers are not idiots, nukes are a threat, and if nothing else, salarians are not exactly known for technological conservatism or inability to innovate.

Obviously, for your desired narrative to be in play, the countermeasures against the nuclear torpedo cannot be perfect, and cannot even be all that good in the scheme of things... But it would be imposing artificial stupidity on your setting's factions (something you are usually loath to do without good cause) for the countermeasures to not exist.

Again, I wish to emphasize that countermeasures do not need to be perfect, just to exist, for this condition to be fulfilled. Even highly imperfect countermeasures are highly desirable. It makes a difference whether an incoming salvo of nuclear torpedoes scores two hits or four, and whether the warheads detonate 500 meters from the target's hull or 1,000 meters away, and so forth, and so on.

It seems to me that such attempts at countermeasures would logically exist, and can be integrated into the overall pattern of warfare. Even if in practice all they do is slightly blunt the otherwise terribly sharp sword of a torpedo attack, giving ships at best marginally better chances of survivability and continuing to fight than they would otherwise have.

Before I go further, may I ask whether you are agreeable to this proposition?
Well, yeah. I just misinterpreted what you were saying to be an argument about what should be the case in-setting, right now.

I broadly do see bomb-pumped lasers as a future innovation that will begin to see play as things evolve. I only see them as a problem insofar as the settings exists in this moment.

I am very excited by their potential as a doctrinal answer to the advent of kinetic barriers and future advances in point defense.
 
[X] Don't use the device. If she wants to talk, she can call you. She can't be that sincere if she won't even try a simple call.
 
[X] Use the device. Let's see what this woman has in mind.
 
[X] Don't use the device. If she wants to talk, she can call you. She can't be that sincere if she won't even try a simple call.
 
Real talk. All this future development of in quest space warfare is interesting and all, but it's not exactly relevant. At least, not to the Herculean distant future where we develop a solution to guardian lasers that seems to be the focus of the discussion.

Barrier Technology is a recent addition. By any stretch of the scientific process, it needs to be implemented, improved, and ultimately have it's role as a force multiplier mitigated by the Rachni and the rest of the galaxy reaching a comparable level of barrier implementation before anyone in the scientific community can hope to have there missile boat proposal even reach the desk of someone like mira. Minimum 30 years before missile boat warfare occurs on any grand scale, possibly longer. Rinse and repeat for Guardian lasers, and again for any solution to Guardian lasers.

At that point we are are nearly a century from the current quest time and any discussion on the issue now is a distant memory that needs to be rehashed in extreme detail anyway. Until we actually have missile boats, I'd say any discussion of technology that would come into existance as a result of missile boats is more idle discussion than productive to the development of the quest.

A subject more relative to the next couple of turns might be how and what we might leverage the results of our successful ablative armor study and Yulair based reactors to the benefit of Virmire and it's affiliate planets, specifically thru diplomacy with other powers.

I mean, your right and wrong? Yes stuff takes time, but given our critical success in doctrine we already know that Barriers are the way of the future and are preparing for the kind of warfare thats going to bring while everyone else is still just catching on to it. So i expect Virmire to have enough of a head start that they have at the very least tactics ready for when the Rachni come back with barriers.
 
Anyone else really looking forward to seeing the effects our new improvements in power and armor are going to have on our void combat abilities? Because its looking like its gonna be awesome.
 
I mean, your right and wrong? Yes stuff takes time, but given our critical success in doctrine we already know that Barriers are the way of the future and are preparing for the kind of warfare thats going to bring while everyone else is still just catching on to it. So i expect Virmire to have enough of a head start that they have at the very least tactics ready for when the Rachni come back with barriers.
We have doctrine saying barriers are the future because we have a large amount of combat data to analyze that tells us barriers are the future. Figuring out what counters barriers requires data about fighting barriers, specifically barrier that are not sufficiently below ours in quality that we still have a significant edge. That kind of data will take years to collect, and then you have to try a variety of solutions before doing doctrine again to figure out that Missile boats are the future, and then begin producing enough to affect the outcome of battles. 30 years is a reasonable time table to accomplish all that.
Anyone else really looking forward to seeing the effects our new improvements in power and armor are going to have on our void combat abilities? Because its looking like its gonna be awesome.
It'll be great. Probably double the durability and combat effectiveness of our Battlecruisers and Dreadnougts between the barriers and ablative armor + tougher, faster screening vessels.
 
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[X] Use the device. Let's see what this woman has in mind.

Better late than never I suppose. The lack of fatalities is the only reason I'm willing to talk though.
 
We have doctrine saying barriers are the future because we have a large amount of combat data to analyze that tells us barriers are the future. Figuring out what counters barriers requires data about fighting barriers, specifically barrier that are not sufficiently below ours in quality that we still have a significant edge. That kind of data will take years to collect, and then you have to try a variety of solutions before doing doctrine again to figure out that Missile boats are the future, and then begin producing enough to affect the outcome of battles. 30 years is a reasonable time table to accomplish all that.

Fortunately, we have almost 30 years of data on hand! Granted, it's of Rachni trying to overcome our barriers rather than vice-versa, but it counts.

And Rachni do demonstrate more focus on missiles - after all, no-one else mounts launchers on their cruisers.
 
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We have doctrine saying barriers are the future because we have a large amount of combat data to analyze that tells us barriers are the future. Figuring out what counters barriers requires data about fighting barriers, specifically barrier that are not sufficiently below ours in quality that we still have a significant edge.
As others note, we have the evidence of the rachni trying to overcome our own barriers, which helps significantly in telling us what does and does not work.

Also, nuclear warheads (which deliver damage mainly in the form of X-rays in space) largely bypassing barriers (which don't stop X-rays) doesn't seem like the kind of thing that requires exhaustive doctrinal reconsideration to figure out. :p

Better late than never I suppose. The lack of fatalities is the only reason I'm willing to talk though.
The Ardat-Yakshi we're proposing to talk to has no obvious direct control over the Ardat-Yakshi who fought our soldiers. As far as I can tell, it's pure coincidence that the Ardat-Yakshi who fought us didn't kill anyone, entirely unrelated to the Ardat-Yakshi who is proposing to talk to us. Unless I'm missing something.
 
The Ardat-Yakshi we're proposing to talk to has no obvious direct control over the Ardat-Yakshi who fought our soldiers. As far as I can tell, it's pure coincidence that the Ardat-Yakshi who fought us didn't kill anyone, entirely unrelated to the Ardat-Yakshi who is proposing to talk to us. Unless I'm missing something.
The base appears to be owned by Lysa Vauln and the three Ardat-Yakshi there possess messages from Lysa Vauln instructing them to return there. The message she left in her quarters is also clearly referring to the three Ardat-Yakshi as her gift.
 
ParaLysa said: I would like you to feed responsibly. With eight of us, it's getting hard to hide things. Irae has been missing for ages and Cyntha's gone wild. I was hoping you'd be more reasonable.
  • Beka Vilar (killed)
  • Cyntha Li'Sai (captured)
  • Irae Folan (at large)
  • Lysa Vauln (at large)
  • Mira Brae (killed)
  • Nalah Rissiva (captured)
  • Sari Cassel (captured)
  • Vira Trast (captured)
So checking back, it seems like the matriarch is probably acting alone here.

-Sari, Vira and Mira got thrown under the bus here (with Mira dying to suit failure).
-Nalah's been captured by us.
-Cyntha was already in prison when this blew up.*
-Beka died trying to YOLO a Head of State and her bodyguards.
-Irae has been out of contact for a while now. If Lysa has any supporters, Irae is probably it. I am curious about what she's been up to though if she's not with the matriarch though, especially since we so little to go off regarding her and her actions.

*(and for some reason we let her live after she took control of the prison she was in, ate her fellow prisoners, and then later tried to kill our secretary. Someone please explain the logic behind that to me.)
 
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The base appears to be owned by Lysa Vauln and the three Ardat-Yakshi there possess messages from Lysa Vauln instructing them to return there. The message she left in her quarters is also clearly referring to the three Ardat-Yakshi as her gift.
Yes, but given that she clearly doesn't have full-bore mind control over her followers... She didn't have any control over whether said three Ardat-Yakshi would, or would not, attempt to murder cops.

My point was simply that we can't logically be kinder to her because those three didn't actually kill any of our cops, because that was entirely outside of her control so far as we know. Because clearly, they hadn't been convinced to turn themselves in. She might have had an argument with them in which she said "look, I get that you don't want to be captured, but for fuck's sake don't kill any cops, dumbasses, they will shoot you dead." But we have no proof of that one way or the other, and the Ardat-Yakshi she left behind 'for us' totally could have killed some of our people by accident just from the level of force they were using.

*(and for some reason let her live after she took control of the prison she was in, ate her fellow prisoners, and then later tried to kill our secretary. Someone please explain the logic behind that to me.)
Honestly, I'm not seeing it either; normal logic about the death penalty wasn't designed with vampiric supervillains who gain both a pleasant rush and increased psychic powers from killing and eating people.

Then again, Poptart may be figuring that those of us in favor of executing that Ardat-Yakshi may be more likely to hold our peace with the idea of us not doing so, than would be the anti-death-penalty people if she were on death row.
 
*(and for some reason we let her live after she took control of the prison she was in, ate her fellow prisoners, and then later tried to kill our secretary. Someone please explain the logic behind that to me.)
She was transferred to an ultramax facility built to Republics specifications. As she was singing already, and with more of her accomplices at large, it was considered worthwhile to wait and see if she'd sing some more. Same logic with the other prisoners. Dead women tell no tales, and they can't break out of their new lodgings unless they like sucking vacuum.

The death penalty remains on the table, once the situation has resolved.
 
I say we give them to the Justicars, as a sign of goodwill, when the situation is fixed.
 
I don't think they exist yet? Or if they do it's nowhere near the level of what they were in canon.
their is not a lot of information on asari jusicars I think beyond they hunt adaki yashi and their training kills large numbers of potential recruits, and that they travel alone but I doubt they haven't been formed yet since an order like thats got to be more then 2 thousand years old (which like 2 asari lifetimes)
 
[X] Don't use the device. If she wants to talk, she can call you. She can't be that sincere if she won't even try a simple call.
 
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