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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

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Time For a Tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on May 20, 2018 at 4:08 PM, finished with 127 posts and 48 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on May 20, 2018 at 4:09 PM, finished with 127 posts and 48 votes.
  • [X] Plan Brogatar
    -[X] War Games: The Navy has fully adopted Beshkarian doctrine, but yet lacks experience in the applications. Fortunately, you have another fleet hanging around with which you can practice. Ask Fleet Admiral Kassa'Malan if he will participate in a series of war games to test Beshkarian doctrine. Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. Chance of Success: 75%. Effect: Run a series of war games with the 3rd Rannoch War Fleet, with them as the defenders and your fleets as the attackers, and get some experience in the particulars of executing the particulars of Beshkarian Doctrine before having to apply them in combat. DC 25 - 22 (adv) = DC 3
    -[X] Slash Naval Production: Virtually all of your orbital industry is naval at this point. You need that production...but so do your civilians. Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half (this is how much you need to cut in order to have any actual effect; no lawyering). Chance of Success: 100%. Effect: Release active military industry to the civilian market at the cost of naval production. Improves civilian economy slower than the, "Release Assets," Stewardship option, but does not require a massive income hit and does reliably improve the civilian economy.
    -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: DC 30 Your special addresses brought a sense of governmental transparency and stability that greatly bolstered the public's willingness to listen to you. This seems like a tradition worth establishing. Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%. Effect: Regularize special addresses on a less frequent schedule, improving the ability of the Prime Minister to interact with the Assembly and the populace at large. As a side effect, grants a rather significant and unmatchable incumbent's bonus during election years due to the exclusive platform. DC 30 - 21 (adv) -16 (pa) = DC -7 Auto Success
    -[X] Hard Times, Hard Decisions: This is going to be a rough few years. You need to impress on the people that things will get worse before they get better, but that they will get better...if they're willing to endure the worse. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 55%. Cost: 20,000 credits. Effect: Bolster the public's willingness to endure harsh government measures towards fixing this crisis, lessening the impact of any unpopular decisions you make over the next few years .
    -[X] Unemployment Benefits: The problem you face is a lack of consumer goods for the population you have. Providing benefits to the inevitable unemployed won't do anything about that, but it'll at least make sure that everybody can get their hands on food -- of which you do have enough. The Passage of the Army Expansion Act means that there are far fewer people going unfed, reducing the cost of this option, although your civilian industry shortfall remains as urgent a problem. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Nobody will starve in unemployment. DC 25 - 23 (adv) = DC 2
    -[X] Release Assets: Virmire actually has plenty of industrial assets going, "spare." The issue is that they're mobilized to your control rather than the civilian population's. Now that you've handled the initial response to the crash, releasing these assets is probably one of your better options to start turning things around, as you really don't have a faster way to get industry back under civilian control and producing goods for them. The issue is...doing this has a cost: those assets will not be available to you again until the situation stabilizes and the economy recovers. Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1; the factor will rise as the option progresses until disappearing entirely at the option's completion. Effect: Release the various assets to which the government has an exclusive claim back to civilian control, giving the civilian economy the shot in the arm it needs to begin making up its crushing shortfalls in a normal manner. DC ??? 23 (adv) + 18 (pa) = ??? Personal attention each turn is a must
    -[X] Piercing the Veil: The MoI, to be frank, is completely obscure to you. It came with the job, as a condition of the job, and you get the impression that Shurna was never much more open with Kerak than she is with you. That said, you think you've earned her respect, and a modicum of loyalty. Certainly, the two of you have a good working relationship. Maybe if you ask real nice, she'll open up to you about how her Ministry actually works. Honestly, she'd better, because you have no idea how you'd go about circumventing that were she disinclined to tell you. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success ? (Rolled with Mira's Intrigue score alone, no hero or minister bonuses applicable). Cost: Free. Effect: Ask Shurna to pretty please tell you how your intelligence ministry works. DC ??? +8 = ???
    -[X] Line of Succession: Durrahe Korun will die at some point in the next ten years. After he is dead, you will need to fill his position. He has compiled a list of candidates, and is willing to mentor one in preparation for the transition. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 credits. Effect: Go over the list of candidates for the position of Minister of the Sciences and select one to succeed Durrahe when he dies. Durrahe will mentor his replacement and begin easing them into a more active role in the Ministry in preparation for the transfer of power. Reduces or even eliminates shortfalls of a death succession, depending
    -[X] Personal Attention: Hard Times Hard Decisions
    -[X] Personal Attention: Release Assets
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    [X]Plan Guns And Butter
    -[X]Martial 1: Marine Expansion: 50,000 credits: 2 years: DC 31 - Minister 11 = DC20
    -[X]Martial 2: War Games: 20,000 credits: 1 year: DC26 - Minister 11 = DC15
    -[X]Diplomacy 1: Regularize Special Addresses: -20,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC 31 - Minister 11 - PA16 = DC4
    -[X]Diplomacy 2: Cut Them Off At The Knees: 25,000 credits: 1 year: DC46 - Minister 11 - PA16 = DC19
    -[X]Stewardship 1: Public Works Projects: -40,000 yearly Income: Locked for duration: DC31 - Minister 12 - PA 18 = DC1
    -[X]Stewardship 2: Unemployment Benefits: -15,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC 26 - Minister 12 = DC14
    -[X]Intrigue 1: Spies, Analyze Thyself: -25,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC21 - Minister 12= DC9
    -[X]Learning 1: Line of Succession: 5,000 *2: 1 year: DC21 - Minister 44 = DC-23(Autosuccess)
    --[X]Double Down
    -[X]Personal 1: Personal Attention Public Works Projects
    -[X]Personal 2: Personal Attention Regularize Special Addresses
    -[X]Personal 3: Personal Attention Cut Them Off At The Knees
    [x] Plan Blue
    -[x] War Games: Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. DC:25 -11 = 14
    -[x] Slash Naval Production: Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half DC:0
    -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 30 -10 = 20 -16 = 4
    -[x] Destroy Racial Governments: Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income DC:20 -10 = 10
    -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Time: 1 year. Cost: -15,000 yearly income until crisis concludes. DC:25 -11 = 14 -18 = -4
    -[x] Public Works Projects: Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option. DC:30 -14 = 16 -18= -2 rolled every year.
    -[x] Piercing the Veil: Time: 1 year. Cost: Free. DC:? -8 = ?
    -[x] Line of Succession (DD): Time: 1 year. Cost: 5,000 credits. DC:20 - 44 = -24
    --[x] DD
    -[x] Personal Attention: Unemployment Benefits
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
    [x] Plan Red
    -[x] War Games (DD): Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. DC:25 -44(DD) = -19
    --[x] DD
    -[x] Marine Expansion: Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. DC:30 -11 = 19
    -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 30 -10 = 20 -16 = 4
    -[x] Destroy Racial Governments: Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income DC:20 -10 = 10
    -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Time: 1 year. Cost: -15,000 yearly income until crisis concludes. DC:25 -11 = 14 -18 = -4
    -[x] Public Works Projects: Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option. DC:30 -14 = 16 -18= -2 rolled every year.
    -[x] Spies, Analyze Thyself: Time: 1 year. Cost: -25,000 yearly income DC:20 -11 = 9
    -[x] Line of Succession: Time: 1 year. Cost: 5,000 credits. DC:20 -11 = 9
    -[x] Personal Attention: Unemployment Benefits
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
    [X] Plan Send In The Marines
    -[X] Marine Expansion: ... Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
    -[X] Slash Naval Production: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half (this is how much you need to cut in order to have any actual effect; no lawyering). Chance of Success: 100%.
    -[X] Destroy Racial Governments: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income... Chance of Success: 80%.
    -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
    -[X] Public Works Projects: ... Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Chance of Success: 70%, rolled every year. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option.
    -[X] Unemployment Benefits: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Nobody will starve in unemployment.
    -[X] Spies, Analyze Thyself: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: -25,000 yearly income.
    -[X] Line of Succession: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits.
    --[X]Double Down
    -[X] Personal Attention: Marine Expansion
    -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    [X] Plan Slash Naval Production, Not Racial Governments
    -[X] War Games. Cost: 20,000 credits. DC: 26-11 = 15
    -[X] Slash Naval Production. DC: 0
    -[X] Regularize Special Addresses. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 31-10-16 = 5
    -[X] Cut Them Off At the Knees. Cost: 25,000 credits. DC: 46-11-16 = 19
    -[X] Public Works Projects. Cost: -40,000 yearly income. DC: 31-12-18 = 1
    -[X] Unemployment Benefits. Cost: -15,000 yearly income. DC: 26-12 = 14
    -[X] Intrigue: Spies, Analyze Thyself. Cost: -25,000 yearly income. DC: 21-12 = 9
    -[X] Line of Succession. Cost: 5,000*2 credits. DC: 21-44 = -23
    --[X]Double Down
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    -[X] Personal Attention: Cut Them Off At The Knees
    -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
    [X] Plan Preparing for Pelenor field
    -[X] War Games. Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. Chance of Success: 75%
    -[X] Army Reform. Time: 3 years. Cost: -35,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 60%
    -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
    -[X] Cut Them Off At the Knees. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 55% (she might decide to refuse your invitation, after all). Cost: 25,000 credits
    -[X] Unemployment Benefits. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis
    -[X] Release Assets. Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately. Income will slowly recover over time. Personally, I don't think it will be that slow given the bonuses we got
    -[X] Sabotage Racial Governments. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: 35,000 credits
    -[X] Line of Succession. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 credits
    --[x] DD
    -[X] Personal Attention: War Games
    -[X] Personal Attention: Army Reform
    -[X] Commit Hero Unit (Kurik, Sabotage Racial Governments)
    [X]Plan Viking HO!
    -[X]Martial 1: Army Reform:
    -[X]Martial 2: Slash Naval Production:
    -[X]Diplomacy 1: Regularize Special Addresses:
    -[X]Diplomacy 2: Cut Them Off At The Knees:
    -[X]Stewardship 1: Partial Nationalization:
    -[X]Stewardship 2: Unemployment Benefits:
    -[X]Intrigue 1: Spies, Analyze Thyself:
    -[X]Learning 1: Line of Succession:
    --[X]Double Down
    -[X]Personal 1: Personal Attention Army Reform
    -[X]Personal 2: Personal Attention Regularize Special Addresses
    -[X]Personal 3: Personal Attention Cut Them Off At The Knees
    [X] Send the Marines AND the Ships
    -[X] Marine Expansion: ... Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
    -[X] War Games: Cost: 20,000 credits Time: 1 year Chance of Success: 75%
    -[X] Destroy Racial Governments: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income... Chance of Success: 80%.
    -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
    -[X] Public Works Projects: ... Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Chance of Success: 70%, rolled every year. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option.
    -[X] Release Assets: ... Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: (Cumulative roll). Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately.
    -[X] Spies, Analyze Thyself: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: -25,000 yearly income.
    -[X] Line of Succession: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits.
    --[X]Double Down
    -[X] Personal Attention: Marine Expansion
    -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
    -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
    [X] Send the Marines AND the Ships
    [x] Plan Fix the D*** Economy
    -[x] Slash Naval Production: Cost: halve naval production. Chance of Success: 100% (+11, total 111% - autosucceed, chance for crits?)
    -[x] Army Reform: Cost: -35,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 60% (+11 +24, total 95%)
    -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70% (+10, total 80%)
    -[x] Cut Them Off At the Knees: Cost: 25,000 credits. Chance of Success: 55% (+10 +16, total 81%)
    -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Chance of Success: 75%. (+12, total 87%)
    -[x] Release Assets: Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately. Income will slowly recover over time. (+12 +18, total [roll] + 30)
    -[x] Intrigue: Spies, Analyze Thyself: Cost: -25,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 80%. (+12, total 92%)
    -[x] Line of Succession: Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits. Chance of Success: 80%. (+44, total 124% - autosucceed, high crit chance)
    --[x] DD
    -[X] Personal Attention: Army Reform
    -[X] Personal Attention: Cut Them Off At The Knees
    -[X] Personal Attention: Release Assets
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Okay, for future reference on tallying:

For Plan votes when there are no "Tasks" to separate the votes, tally by Block. The presentation is easier to read. Here, you have to look through all the plans to see which has the most votes; tallying by Block puts it right at the top.

When you're writing Plans, make the first word in the name of your plan "Plan". The tally automatically combines single-line votes for plans with the full plan block, but it looks for that word. Otherwise, when you're tallying, you have to do that part manually. Here, you'll notice that Send the Marines AND the Ships is uncombined, with five votes for just the name of it and one for the full plan. It's not that big of a deal to have to combine one plan manually, but it becomes a pain when you have to do it for, say, ten different plans.

Remember, we're using Approval Voting, so we're bound to end up with a lot of different plans. Take those couple extra steps to make it easier to tally votes and to read the tally.
 
[X]Plan Guns And Butter

Ending racial government is good, less yaping people on our money.
 
WazugDaWierd said:
... rather slow day for discussions.
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Not that much left to discuss, I'm afraid.
Mr Tebbs said:
I'd just rather Release Assets now while we have the most time to work with, considering that it's far more assistance than Public Works, and then get the army trained up so we can secure attican beta so our raiding fleet can actually raid in the near future, but I seem to be a minority.
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We aren't being prevented from raiding by the Rachni in Attican Beta.
As long as we maintain orbital superiority, we are killing everything that looks even vaguely industrial. Any power generation. Any large-scale production facilities. This both limits the population they can support, and the war materiel they can build.

I just happen to think that Release Assets now is not something we can afford to do at this time.
It might be unnecessary, it might not. Just not this turn.
The malus from possibly running into negative budget with insufficient planning will hammer the economic recovery.

You don't treat a starving person by allowing them to overeat.
 
OK just found this, about to read year 7

1) nice choice on start time.
2) ...... those exploration rolls
3) I swear to god if I see a Sentry V I'm going to ask it gets a either a malus or perk for crew due to fame or infamy!
 
uju32 said:
I just happen to think that Release Assets now is not something we can afford to do at this time.
It might be unnecessary, it might not. Just not this turn.
The malus from possibly running into negative budget with insufficient planning will hammer the economic recovery.

You don't treat a starving person by allowing them to overeat.
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What big budget items are we expecting to spend on next year? The malus in two years won't be nearly as bad as next year, and it keeps our ship production high.

Not seeing how your analogy is valid either. Us loosening enough material to allow a great many back orders to be filled does not threaten to choke the Civilian sector with resources
 
Simon_Jester said:
By the way, would you mind providing examples of what first-order consequences (which players are normally okay with?) versus second-order would be.
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A first-order consequence would be, "I vote for Mira to feel X, therefore she feels X."

Second-order would be, "I vote for Mira to kill the person who just kidnapped her firstborn child, therefore she is angry at that person."

The key, I find, is that people tend to freak out if the second-order consequence is literally anything other than what they had in mind. Now, in less cut-and-dried cases than the ones above, there are myriad motivations for Mira to do various things. Previously I tended to scrape the one she was feeling from thread discussion, but that ended quite poorly.

In any case...


GONNA CLOSE TOMORROW, FOLKS.
DB_Explorer said:
OK just found this, about to read year 7

1) nice choice on start time.
2) ...... those exploration rolls
3) I swear to god if I see a Sentry V I'm going to ask it gets a either a malus or perk for crew due to fame or infamy!
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I think we've actually gone through a few more Sentry cruisers by now...:rofl:
 
Mr Tebbs said:
What big budget items are we expecting to spend on next year? The malus in two years won't be nearly as bad as next year, and it keeps our ship production high.
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We don't know that, do we?

Which is why I try to build a significant reserve before going into this.
It's hard to compare with other plans, because no one else really has a detailed breakdown of their spending other than @Alfa290 , and it's a bit much to expect me to regularly break down other plan's financials.

The plan you're currently voting for, for example, passes up 15,000 credits/year of immediate economic stimulus represented by Unemployment Benefits. Money that's paid to food producers and affiliated industries, allowing them to stay in business and employ more people.Money that feeds the unemployed.

Not all of those people would find a job even with open factories, but they still eat.Still burden families and friends.
Taking off some of that effort helps.

Mr Tebbs said:
Not seeing how your analogy is valid either. Us loosening enough material to allow a great many back orders to be filled does not threaten to choke the Civilian sector with resources
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My analogy was with regards to the Assets.
Not resources.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
I think we've actually gone through a few more Sentry cruisers by now...:rofl:
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Sailor: *looks at Sentry MXII* ...... I'm going to transfer to the VDV Sudden Rapid Disassembly

also I feel like I'm going to be breaking out Corbett as a reference for fleet doctrine once I get around to proposing such things. Raiding doctrine a war does not make, but Mahanian style won't work I think... at least not in the way most purists think of it.

Well that and pair it with Atomic Rockets cause ME fluff is rather harder then the game itself

*goes back to reading the naval board's first recommendations*
 
uju32 said:
The plan you're currently voting for, for example, passes up 15,000 credits/year of immediate economic stimulus represented by Unemployment Benefits.
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You mean the one that's building public works and releasing assets to shorten the recession/prevent a depression? The one that maximizes the effect of all our actions to delay the recession for 2 turns at most?

Unemployment Benefits are very important, but at the same time methinks this is the hottest the iron will ever get for us to strike on this crisis, and it leaves our navy in as decent a shape as your plan if hostilities resume.
 
WHO DARES WAKE ME FRO-
uju32 said:
It's hard to compare with other plans, because no one else really has a detailed breakdown of their spending other than @Alfa290 , and it's a bit much to expect me to regularly break down other plan's financials.
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Eh, as long as we all use the condensed vote format it's not terribly difficult to get the numbers; just time consuming. Honestly, we could just set up a spreadsheet to do the math for us. I'll put that down as an idea for later.
 
Alfa290 said:
WHO DARES WAKE ME FRO-

Eh, as long as we all use the condensed vote format it's not terribly difficult to get the numbers; just time consuming. Honestly, we could just set up a spreadsheet to do the math for us. I put that down as an idea for later.
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I don't do cookies in this quest, but I'll damn well start doing them if somebody does this.
 
Mr Tebbs said:
You mean the one that's building public works and releasing assets to shorten the recession/prevent a depression? The one that maximizes the effect of all our actions to delay the recession for 2 turns at most?
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Yes.
The same plan that's Releasing Assets while much of the people not currently employed by the military-industrial complex are still in school full or part-time, taking Crash Courses to improve their skills to a level competitive in the workplace.

Look, this is not an economics simulator.I'll be the first person to remind you of that. I don't expect the GM to make one.
But I know what my numbers are.
I'm not so sure what that of others are, and how much they have accounted for future financial concerns.

And while there's pent-up demand in the civilian economy, those people need money to buy civilian products. Releasing Assets from guaranteed military contracts to the civilian market at a time when you aren't paying unemployment benefits to provide the funds for at least some of that demand to buy stuff just seems.....dubious.

While all those new army boys have money jingling in their pockets to help there, I don't trust enough to assume that they will be spending on civilian goods to boost the released factories, instead of sending money home to help those people who don't have Unemployment Benefits to pay for their day to day subsistence.
Mr Tebbs said:
Unemployment Benefits are very important, but at the same time methinks this is the hottest the iron will ever get for us to strike on this crisis, and it leaves our navy in as decent a shape as your plan if hostilities resume.
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To be entirely honest, I don't expect this recession to end until Assillia becomes self-supporting.
We're in this for two more years, at least till Turn 22.
So stabilization is my first priority.
 
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uju32 said:
Look, this is not an economics simulator.I'll be the first person to remind you of that
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Seriously? When have I done an economic argument that wasn't high level?

But for numbers, unemployment benefits cost 39k/year last turn and costs 15k/year this turn as a result of expanding the army. I feel there's more slack for that in the coming year or two compared to below:

Right now all those people taking crash courses do not have jobs waiting for them because A) there aren't enough factories and B) those factories that do exist don't have enough material to make things to sell. We'll be back to square one without that
 
Mr Tebbs said:
Seriously? When have I done an economic argument that wasn't high level?
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I didn't say YOU were.
I was prefacing my own argument before pointing out economic implications of some actions.
Sorry for the confusion.

Mr Tebbs said:
But for numbers, unemployment benefits cost 39k/year last turn and costs 15k/year this turn as a result of expanding the army. I feel there's more slack for that in the coming year or two compared to below:
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We got a discount of 24k/year on Unemployment Benefits, in return for spending 50k/year on expanding the army by 1.5x.
I'm not sure how much slack there is in the system.

Mr Tebbs said:
Right now all those people taking crash courses do not have jobs waiting for them because A) there aren't enough factories and B) those factories that do exist don't have enough material to make things to sell. We'll be back to square one without that
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1) Crash Courses doesn't end until the end of Turn 21/beginning of Turn 22.
By that time, the Army would have spent two turns/80,000 credits on Public Works Projects, from power to communications infrastructure to cities to factories. And they don't have to turn a profit doing it.

For comparison, we spent 75,000 credits over two years on preparing Assilia for it's new residents.
If we are going to need Release Assets, I would feel more comfortable doing it around when the final classes are coming out of Crash Courses.

2)Materiel to make things comes from our mining infrastructure. The one that the FDO is expanding every turn.
The problem isn't mining infrastructure. Usually. I'm sure there are things that are scarce, but we haven't gotten much indication that we are resource-limited in the civilian economy. It's production of finished goods where the bottleneck is.
 
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Financial Data Sheet
  • Media
    • PoptartProdigy said:
    I don't do cookies in this quest, but I'll damn well start doing them if somebody does this.
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    Done, here's the comment link: Terminus Quest Data Sheet

    I'll drop the edit link in the Discord. Also can someone get me a list of Going Expenses like Fun Coupons and Colony Launch, how much they cost in income, and their duration. This is only for income hits that will expire so something like Unemployment Benefits would not be what I'm looking for.

    Edit: The data sheet has been updated to protect the background calculations. This is the edit link: Terminus Quest Data Sheet
     
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  • Media
    • Alfa290 said:
    I'll drop the edit link in the Discord. Also can someone get me a list of Going Expenses like Fun Coupons and Colony Launch, how much they cost in income, and their duration. This is only for income hits that will expire so something like Unemployment Benefits would not be what I'm looking for.
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    Crash Course 30,000 credits yearly. Ends Turn 21/22.
    Ministerial Security 32,000 credits yearly. Ends Turn 20/21.
    Fun Coupons 50,000 credits yearly. Ends Turn 22.
    Assilia Upkeep 30,000 credits yearly. Ends ?
    FDO 70,000 credits yearly. Indefinite.
    Lystheni Administration 20,000 credits yearly. Indefinite.
    Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 21, 2018 at 4:00 AM, finished with 148 posts and 49 votes.
    • [X]Plan Guns And Butter
      -[X]Martial 1: Marine Expansion: 50,000 credits: 2 years: DC 31 - Minister 11 = DC20
      -[X]Martial 2: War Games: 20,000 credits: 1 year: DC26 - Minister 11 = DC15
      -[X]Diplomacy 1: Regularize Special Addresses: -20,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC 31 - Minister 11 - PA16 = DC4
      -[X]Diplomacy 2: Cut Them Off At The Knees: 25,000 credits: 1 year: DC46 - Minister 11 - PA16 = DC19
      -[X]Stewardship 1: Public Works Projects: -40,000 yearly Income: Locked for duration: DC31 - Minister 12 - PA 18 = DC1
      -[X]Stewardship 2: Unemployment Benefits: -15,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC 26 - Minister 12 = DC14
      -[X]Intrigue 1: Spies, Analyze Thyself: -25,000 yearly Income: 1 year: DC21 - Minister 12= DC9
      -[X]Learning 1: Line of Succession: 5,000 *2: 1 year: DC21 - Minister 44 = DC-23(Autosuccess)
      --[X]Double Down
      -[X]Personal 1: Personal Attention Public Works Projects
      -[X]Personal 2: Personal Attention Regularize Special Addresses
      -[X]Personal 3: Personal Attention Cut Them Off At The Knees
      [X] Plan Send In The Marines
      -[X] Marine Expansion: ... Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
      -[X] Slash Naval Production: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half (this is how much you need to cut in order to have any actual effect; no lawyering). Chance of Success: 100%.
      -[X] Destroy Racial Governments: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income... Chance of Success: 80%.
      -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
      -[X] Public Works Projects: ... Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Chance of Success: 70%, rolled every year. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option.
      -[X] Unemployment Benefits: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Nobody will starve in unemployment.
      -[X] Spies, Analyze Thyself: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: -25,000 yearly income.
      -[X] Line of Succession: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits.
      --[X]Double Down
      -[X] Personal Attention: Marine Expansion
      -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      [X] Send the Marines AND the Ships
      [X] Plan Brogatar
      -[X] War Games: The Navy has fully adopted Beshkarian doctrine, but yet lacks experience in the applications. Fortunately, you have another fleet hanging around with which you can practice. Ask Fleet Admiral Kassa'Malan if he will participate in a series of war games to test Beshkarian doctrine. Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. Chance of Success: 75%. Effect: Run a series of war games with the 3rd Rannoch War Fleet, with them as the defenders and your fleets as the attackers, and get some experience in the particulars of executing the particulars of Beshkarian Doctrine before having to apply them in combat. DC 25 - 22 (adv) = DC 3
      -[X] Slash Naval Production: Virtually all of your orbital industry is naval at this point. You need that production...but so do your civilians. Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half (this is how much you need to cut in order to have any actual effect; no lawyering). Chance of Success: 100%. Effect: Release active military industry to the civilian market at the cost of naval production. Improves civilian economy slower than the, "Release Assets," Stewardship option, but does not require a massive income hit and does reliably improve the civilian economy.
      -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: DC 30 Your special addresses brought a sense of governmental transparency and stability that greatly bolstered the public's willingness to listen to you. This seems like a tradition worth establishing. Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%. Effect: Regularize special addresses on a less frequent schedule, improving the ability of the Prime Minister to interact with the Assembly and the populace at large. As a side effect, grants a rather significant and unmatchable incumbent's bonus during election years due to the exclusive platform. DC 30 - 21 (adv) -16 (pa) = DC -7 Auto Success
      -[X] Hard Times, Hard Decisions: This is going to be a rough few years. You need to impress on the people that things will get worse before they get better, but that they will get better...if they're willing to endure the worse. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 55%. Cost: 20,000 credits. Effect: Bolster the public's willingness to endure harsh government measures towards fixing this crisis, lessening the impact of any unpopular decisions you make over the next few years .
      -[X] Unemployment Benefits: The problem you face is a lack of consumer goods for the population you have. Providing benefits to the inevitable unemployed won't do anything about that, but it'll at least make sure that everybody can get their hands on food -- of which you do have enough. The Passage of the Army Expansion Act means that there are far fewer people going unfed, reducing the cost of this option, although your civilian industry shortfall remains as urgent a problem. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Nobody will starve in unemployment. DC 25 - 23 (adv) = DC 2
      -[X] Release Assets: Virmire actually has plenty of industrial assets going, "spare." The issue is that they're mobilized to your control rather than the civilian population's. Now that you've handled the initial response to the crash, releasing these assets is probably one of your better options to start turning things around, as you really don't have a faster way to get industry back under civilian control and producing goods for them. The issue is...doing this has a cost: those assets will not be available to you again until the situation stabilizes and the economy recovers. Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1; the factor will rise as the option progresses until disappearing entirely at the option's completion. Effect: Release the various assets to which the government has an exclusive claim back to civilian control, giving the civilian economy the shot in the arm it needs to begin making up its crushing shortfalls in a normal manner. DC ??? 23 (adv) + 18 (pa) = ??? Personal attention each turn is a must
      -[X] Piercing the Veil: The MoI, to be frank, is completely obscure to you. It came with the job, as a condition of the job, and you get the impression that Shurna was never much more open with Kerak than she is with you. That said, you think you've earned her respect, and a modicum of loyalty. Certainly, the two of you have a good working relationship. Maybe if you ask real nice, she'll open up to you about how her Ministry actually works. Honestly, she'd better, because you have no idea how you'd go about circumventing that were she disinclined to tell you. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success ? (Rolled with Mira's Intrigue score alone, no hero or minister bonuses applicable). Cost: Free. Effect: Ask Shurna to pretty please tell you how your intelligence ministry works. DC ??? +8 = ???
      -[X] Line of Succession: Durrahe Korun will die at some point in the next ten years. After he is dead, you will need to fill his position. He has compiled a list of candidates, and is willing to mentor one in preparation for the transition. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 credits. Effect: Go over the list of candidates for the position of Minister of the Sciences and select one to succeed Durrahe when he dies. Durrahe will mentor his replacement and begin easing them into a more active role in the Ministry in preparation for the transfer of power. Reduces or even eliminates shortfalls of a death succession, depending
      -[X] Personal Attention: Hard Times Hard Decisions
      -[X] Personal Attention: Release Assets
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      [x] Plan Red
      -[x] War Games (DD): Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. DC:25 -44(DD) = -19
      --[x] DD
      -[x] Marine Expansion: Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. DC:30 -11 = 19
      -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 30 -10 = 20 -16 = 4
      -[x] Destroy Racial Governments: Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income DC:20 -10 = 10
      -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Time: 1 year. Cost: -15,000 yearly income until crisis concludes. DC:25 -11 = 14 -18 = -4
      -[x] Public Works Projects: Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option. DC:30 -14 = 16 -18= -2 rolled every year.
      -[x] Spies, Analyze Thyself: Time: 1 year. Cost: -25,000 yearly income DC:20 -11 = 9
      -[x] Line of Succession: Time: 1 year. Cost: 5,000 credits. DC:20 -11 = 9
      -[x] Personal Attention: Unemployment Benefits
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
      [x] Plan Blue
      -[x] War Games: Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. DC:25 -11 = 14
      -[x] Slash Naval Production: Time: 1 year. Cost: Naval production cut in half DC:0
      -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 30 -10 = 20 -16 = 4
      -[x] Destroy Racial Governments: Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income DC:20 -10 = 10
      -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Time: 1 year. Cost: -15,000 yearly income until crisis concludes. DC:25 -11 = 14 -18 = -4
      -[x] Public Works Projects: Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option. DC:30 -14 = 16 -18= -2 rolled every year.
      -[x] Piercing the Veil: Time: 1 year. Cost: Free. DC:? -8 = ?
      -[x] Line of Succession (DD): Time: 1 year. Cost: 5,000 credits. DC:20 - 44 = -24
      --[x] DD
      -[x] Personal Attention: Unemployment Benefits
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
      [x] Plan Fix the D*** Economy
      -[x] Slash Naval Production: Cost: halve naval production. Chance of Success: 100% (+11, total 111% - autosucceed, chance for crits?)
      -[x] Army Reform: Cost: -35,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 60% (+11 +24, total 95%)
      -[x] Regularize Special Addresses: Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70% (+10, total 80%)
      -[x] Cut Them Off At the Knees: Cost: 25,000 credits. Chance of Success: 55% (+10 +16, total 81%)
      -[x] Unemployment Benefits: Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis. Chance of Success: 75%. (+12, total 87%)
      -[x] Release Assets: Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately. Income will slowly recover over time. (+12 +18, total [roll] + 30)
      -[x] Intrigue: Spies, Analyze Thyself: Cost: -25,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 80%. (+12, total 92%)
      -[x] Line of Succession: Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits. Chance of Success: 80%. (+44, total 124% - autosucceed, high crit chance)
      --[x] DD
      -[X] Personal Attention: Army Reform
      -[X] Personal Attention: Cut Them Off At The Knees
      -[X] Personal Attention: Release Assets
      [X] Plan Slash Naval Production, Not Racial Governments
      -[X] War Games. Cost: 20,000 credits. DC: 26-11 = 15
      -[X] Slash Naval Production. DC: 0
      -[X] Regularize Special Addresses. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. DC: 31-10-16 = 5
      -[X] Cut Them Off At the Knees. Cost: 25,000 credits. DC: 46-11-16 = 19
      -[X] Public Works Projects. Cost: -40,000 yearly income. DC: 31-12-18 = 1
      -[X] Unemployment Benefits. Cost: -15,000 yearly income. DC: 26-12 = 14
      -[X] Intrigue: Spies, Analyze Thyself. Cost: -25,000 yearly income. DC: 21-12 = 9
      -[X] Line of Succession. Cost: 5,000*2 credits. DC: 21-44 = -23
      --[X]Double Down
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      -[X] Personal Attention: Cut Them Off At The Knees
      -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
      [X] Plan Preparing for Pelenor field
      -[X] War Games. Time: 1 year. Cost: 20,000 credits, can do nothing else with fleets this year. Chance of Success: 75%
      -[X] Army Reform. Time: 3 years. Cost: -35,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 60%
      -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
      -[X] Cut Them Off At the Knees. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 55% (she might decide to refuse your invitation, after all). Cost: 25,000 credits
      -[X] Unemployment Benefits. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -15,000 yearly income for duration of crisis
      -[X] Release Assets. Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: Rolled every year until the cumulative result reaches , with natural 1's inflicting negative progress. Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately. Income will slowly recover over time. Personally, I don't think it will be that slow given the bonuses we got
      -[X] Sabotage Racial Governments. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: 35,000 credits
      -[X] Line of Succession. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 credits
      --[x] DD
      -[X] Personal Attention: War Games
      -[X] Personal Attention: Army Reform
      -[X] Commit Hero Unit (Kurik, Sabotage Racial Governments)
      [X]Plan Viking HO!
      -[X]Martial 1: Army Reform:
      -[X]Martial 2: Slash Naval Production:
      -[X]Diplomacy 1: Regularize Special Addresses:
      -[X]Diplomacy 2: Cut Them Off At The Knees:
      -[X]Stewardship 1: Partial Nationalization:
      -[X]Stewardship 2: Unemployment Benefits:
      -[X]Intrigue 1: Spies, Analyze Thyself:
      -[X]Learning 1: Line of Succession:
      --[X]Double Down
      -[X]Personal 1: Personal Attention Army Reform
      -[X]Personal 2: Personal Attention Regularize Special Addresses
      -[X]Personal 3: Personal Attention Cut Them Off At The Knees
      [X] Send the Marines AND the Ships
      -[X] Marine Expansion: ... Time: 2 years. Cost: 50,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
      -[X] War Games: Cost: 20,000 credits Time: 1 year Chance of Success: 75%
      -[X] Destroy Racial Governments: ... Time: 1 year. Cost: 25,000 credits; +5,000 yearly income... Chance of Success: 80%.
      -[X] Regularize Special Addresses: Time: 1 year. Cost: -20,000 yearly income. Chance of Success: 70%.
      -[X] Public Works Projects: ... Time: Continuous until canceled, locked for duration. Chance of Success: 70%, rolled every year. Cost: -40,000 yearly income for duration of option.
      -[X] Release Assets: ... Time: Indeterminate. Chance of Success: (Cumulative roll). Cost: Multiply yearly income by a factor of 0.1 immediately.
      -[X] Spies, Analyze Thyself: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: -25,000 yearly income.
      -[X] Line of Succession: ... Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 80%. Cost: 5,000 10,000 credits.
      --[X]Double Down
      -[X] Personal Attention: Marine Expansion
      -[x] Personal Attention: Public Works Projects
      -[X] Personal Attention: Regularize Special Addresses
      [X] Send the Marines​
    Click to expand...
     
    Alfa290 said:
    Done, here's the comment link: Terminus Quest Data Sheet

    I'll drop the edit link in the Discord. Also can someone get me a list of Going Expenses like Fun Coupons and Colony Launch, how much they cost in income, and their duration. This is only for income hits that will expire so something like Unemployment Benefits would not be what I'm looking for.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    That goes under Media so that it stands out, and you, Alfa, get to have yourself a cookie. :D It's good for a +10 to any roll you please (+5 on battle or personal combat rolls). Must be called before the roll is made, to avoid cheesing, but otherwise go nuts! Enjoy.
     
    Speaking of la Discordia, could we get an updated link? The threadmarked invite for the server has timed out.
     
    looking at most recent vote tally..

    More then half of those not voteing don't support Release assets or slash Naval production. 28
    A decent minority support slaching naval funds. 20
    less support releasing assets. 18
    only a small number support both. 7
    Total of 31 voters support at least ONE of the two options that begin implementing an actual fix to the cause of the crash, as opposed to simply dealing with the symptoms of the crash.

    Swithching to
    [X] Send the Marines

    plan with the most votes that will actually make decent headway toward the problem, though I have no hope of it winning.     ​
     
    uju32 said:
    Which is why I try to build a significant reserve before going into this.
    It's hard to compare with other plans, because no one else really has a detailed breakdown of their spending other than @Alfa290 , and it's a bit much to expect me to regularly break down other plan's financials.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I didn't do quite as detailed a breakdown in mine, due to adding all the costs and income reductions together, but I'm pretty sure I got the numbers right. (Ended up with a projected 245.1k credit balance going into next year, with a yearly income of 15,100 credits - although depending on rolls, that might increase.)
    Basically, I was taking mostly options that took hits to income, rather than costing up-front out of our budget, since the income hits then also get hit by the (x 0.1) modifier. Yes, it's gaming the system, but I made sure it worked that way first.

    For further analysis, Turn 21 would have 1 military option open, 2 diplomacy, 1 stewardship, 2 intrigue, and 1 learning option open. Just looking at options from this turn, taking War Games (20k), Destroy Racial Governments (25k, +5k income) and Hard Times, Hard Decisions (20k), [skipping Stewardship and Intrigue], and The Road Less Traveled (15k) would cost 80k plus whatever we do for Stewardship and Intrigue. I skipped Stewardship because there are no remaining options there which wouldn't drop income into negatives, and Intrigue because hopefully there will be more options than Piercing the Veil and Sabotage Racial Governments, although that would be possible, bumping the yearly expenditure up to 115k + whatever we do for Stewardship, with a (minimum) 15k income. So that would hopefully leave us with a turn 22 budget of over 100k, and an income that's recovering. And a decently stable political situation, except for possibly Ti'ord being angry about having her platform co-opted. (U mad bro?)
     
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