[X] SR Tidur, Engineer for the Ordinance Board.
[X] Sandor Ivalko, Infantry officer.
[X] Josip Kaldhoff, Cavalry officer.
[X] Harel Cseh, Seebataillone officer.
[X] Bovo Sorrel, Naval Gunnery Officer.
[X] Herceg Kaila of Kapan, Prince of the Blood and amateur firearmsdesigner.
[X] Sandor Ivalko, Infantry officer.
[X] SR Tidur, Engineer for the Ordinance Board.
[X] Bovo Sorrel, Naval Gunnery Officer.
[X] Josip Kaldhoff, Cavalry officer.
[X] Bokor Béla, Cavalry officer (Honvéd.)
[X] SR Tidur, Engineer for the Ordinance Board.
Additionally, Ivalko is interested in something rimless and straight walled so it will be easy to feed in the self-loading automatic weapons he expects to become practical with the introduction of smokeless powder, as well as existing rotary machine guns.
[X] Plan Contacts
-[x] Herceg Kaila of Kapan, Prince of the Blood and amateur firearms designer.
-[x] Harel Cseh, Seebataillone officer.
-[X] Captain RI Else, semi-disgraced Naval procurement officer.
-[x] S. Meyer, contract engineer.
-[x] M. Zaslovski, Infantry Officer (Zeměbrana.)
-[x] Sandor Ivalko, Infantry officer.
Kalia for politics
Csesh for the Marines
Rl Else, because we know he's got common sense
Meyer for Jew memes making sure it doesn't take a jewellers shop to build our guns.
Zaslovska for the PBI
Ivalko for the other, less known infantry branch.
So what are our plans for the gun?
Same ammo as the rifle?
Water or air cooled?
Will we make a mount/tripod for the gun?
Quick change barrel?
Non disintegrating belt or disintegrating belt? If not that, some kind of magazine or clip/enbloc feed?
I'm thinking of going for a PKM build, which has the reliability of the Maxim style action instead of a push-through feed, non-disintigrating belt for ease of manufacture and reuse, and an air-cooled quick change barrel with a handle on each barrel. And of course I don't see any reason to go for a different type of ammunition. I'm just hoping we can keep the weight down to something a two or three man team can lug around and keep up with the rest of the riflemen.
So what are our plans for the gun?
Same ammo as the rifle?
Water or air cooled?
Will we make a mount/tripod for the gun?
Quick change barrel?
Non disintegrating belt or disintegrating belt? If not that, some kind of magazine or clip/enbloc feed?
I'm thinking of going for a PKM build, which has the reliability of the Maxim style action instead of a push-through feed, non-disintigrating belt for ease of manufacture and reuse, and an air-cooled quick change barrel with a handle on each barrel. And of course I don't see any reason to go for a different type of ammunition. I'm just hoping we can keep the weight down to something a two or three man team can lug around and keep up with the rest of the riflemen.
It definitely has to be water-cooled for sustained fire roles. That or go with the Hotchkiss model of huge metal heat sinks on the barrel.
It should be tripod or sled mounted, obviously.
With water cooling you don't need to change the barrel.
Instead of belt, metal feed strips. Since the machine gun is a crew served weapon, the effective rate of fire won't be effected. There'll be a man whose job it is to keep feeding the gun.
It definitely has to be water-cooled for sustained fire roles. That or go with the Hotchkiss model of huge metal heat sinks on the barrel.
It should be tripod or sled mounted, obviously.
With water cooling you don't need to change the barrel.
Instead of belt, metal feed strips. Since the machine gun is a crew served weapon, the effective rate of fire won't be effected. There'll be a man whose job it is to keep feeding the gun.
There are in fact two contrasting requirements here which have not been separated out.
One is for a 'light' MG, which is infantry-portable rather than luggable.
The other is a heavy MG, with superior range and cadence.
If we try to combine the two, it will not go well.
I suggest we tell the designers that we are looking for two entries.
For the light I agree it should use rifle ammo, and want to avoid water-cooling for the extra weight.
For the heavy I suggest going the whole hog, wheeled carriage with limber so that it can be horse-drawn during march, big round and long barrel for range, water-cooled, gunshield.
There are in fact two contrasting requirements here which have not been separated out.
One is for a 'light' MG, which is infantry-portable rather than luggable.
The other is a heavy MG, with superior range and cadence.
If we try to combine the two, it will not go well.
I suggest we tell the designers that we are looking for two entries.
For the light I agree it should use rifle ammo, and want to avoid water-cooling for the extra weight.
For the heavy I suggest going the whole hog, wheeled carriage with limber so that it can be horse-drawn during march, big round and long barrel for range, water-cooled, gunshield.
This separation at this point is not profitable, IMO. No targets for high-caliber MGs that wouldn't merit artillery. Better to construct one relatively light MG that can be used in most situations.
Build lightweight guncarriage (Like the Sokolov designed for russian Maxims), use cartridge interchangeable with the one used by rifles, use watercooling (And snowcooling. Because winters & mountains).
And then set Prince upon contestants, to get us actually reliable MG.
We can adress the issue of light assault automatic weapon later, in SMG competition, and we can request heavy MGs when we would actually need them.
So what are our plans for the gun?
Same ammo as the rifle?
Water or air cooled?
Will we make a mount/tripod for the gun?
Quick change barrel?
Non disintegrating belt or disintegrating belt? If not that, some kind of magazine or clip/enbloc feed?
Rifle ammo, air cooled, bipod or maybe tripod mount, no quick change barrel, canvas belt because we can't make a disintegrating belt yet. Clip feed is right the fuck out and take your bayonet lug with it. Practically we want this sucker to be light, simple, and easy to set up and get shooting in a hurry.
There are in fact two contrasting requirements here which have not been separated out.
One is for a 'light' MG, which is infantry-portable rather than luggable.
The other is a heavy MG, with superior range and cadence.
If we try to combine the two, it will not go well.
I suggest we tell the designers that we are looking for two entries.
Say what? The heavy MG role is already pretty nicely filled; the issue being there's not enough production. Besides, we don't really have a need for anything past rifle caliber for machine guns yet.
Say what? The heavy MG role is already pretty nicely filled; the issue being there's not enough production. Besides, we don't really have a need for anything past rifle caliber for machine guns yet.
People drink out of those who aren't Bear Grylls, and while I'm not kinkshaming anyone, it's also not really conducive to making a pot of coffee or tea and shouldn't be encouraged.
Say what? The heavy MG role is already pretty nicely filled; the issue being there's not enough production. Besides, we don't really have a need for anything past rifle caliber for machine guns yet.
[X] SR Tidur, Engineer for the Ordinance Board.
[X] Josip Kaldhoff, Cavalry officer.
[X] S. Meyer, contract engineer.
[X] Harel Cseh, Seebataillone officer.
[X] Sandor Ivalko, Infantry officer.
[X] Herceg Kaila of Kapan, Prince of the Blood and amateur firearms designer.
I lean towards an emphasis on light weight, reliability and ease of production, with an air cooled barrel and shooting our rifle shell. Probably a cloth belt and no quick change barrel, but I don't care as much. We want enough of them to get made, and to have them where they are needed and working when they are needed. Everything else is secondary to that.
[15] Herceg Kaila of Kapan, Prince of the Blood and amateur firearms designer.
[14] Sandor Ivalko, Infantry officer.
[14] Harel Cseh, Seebataillone officer.
[12] M. Zaslovski, Infantry Officer (Zeměbrana.)
[12] S. Meyer, contract engineer.
[9] Captain RI Else, semi-disgraced Naval procurement officer.
With the commission selected, the time has come to determine what sort of machine guns the commission is actually interested in and what the military needs.
Herceg Kaila is thinking any new weapon should be reasonably light (ideally under 50kg wet instead of 60kg,) and generally focused on mobility over sustained firepower, with cost being a tertiary concern. After all, the current M.853 Holborn-Arbatescu is more than capable of performing the duties it needs to for the infantry and for fortress troops and ships, and is expensive enough just in materials that a lighter weapon will likely be cheaper anyway. So freeing up weapons from Gemeinsame Armee Cavalry Machine gun sections would allow for more Landsturm units to get at least some proper machine guns.
Sandor Ivalko would just like something lighter and much cheaper, that doesn't require two carts to field. As nice as the sled on the M.853 is for indirect fire and almost any condition imaginable, it's a bit heavy and doesn't readily break down for transport. Which is fine if you carry it like a stretcher, but also means that the machine gun section in a Bataillon are about as fast on the strategic level as the cooks or the armorer. Also, being able to have a machine gun that could be in two pieces on a cart would allow for more space for ammunition and spares on that same cart, allowing the machine gun section to ideally go from five carts to three.
Harel Cseh wants a light, practical weapon that while it maybe can't maintain sustained fire for a long period is more mobile than the 60kg Holborn-Arbatescu. Ideally something that can be carried by one man or broken down into multiple loads and operated by a crew of two or three in the field. The Seebataillone are used to engaging in small unit actions anywhere in the world and exploiting their capabilities as light infantry and the capabilities of their motherships to enforce the Emperor's will. Even if it can't match the raw performance of the M.853, a lighter possibly aircooled gun is still going to be a lot of firepower with which to make the enemy regret their life decisions, and is worth its weight in gold so cost should be no object.
M. Zaslovski would just like to have multiple machine guns in a machine gun section. He hopes for reliable ones, but really anything will do at this point.
S. Meyer is all for a lighter, more mobile platform, but thinks cost and reliability should come first for a substitute standard weapon. Air cooling might be a better option just to cut weight and reduce complexity. It should however be close in terms of effect and capability to the M.853, so as to allow units to mix weapons if need be.
RI Else doesn't really care about cost, but thinks a lighter weapon capable of sustained fire is more important than anything else when it comes to Cavalry and Seebataillone use. Otherwise the Kreigsmarine is fine with the M.853, and likely won't readily give up its allocations for shipboard use.
With opinions in hand, you can begin to sculpt requirements and scope. This will be Vote By Plan, so make your own votes.
[X] Plan Manpack
-[X] Gun should be sans ammunition less than 45kg
-[X] No singular portion of the gun should weigh over 18kg (IE: tripod, gun assembly, spares)
--[X] Any empty magazines or magazine reloaders count towards the above weight.
-[X] Must fire standard rifle round from a canvas belt or detachable box
-[X] Must be air cooled or have water cooling that requires less than 2kg water
-[X] Must be able to discharge at least sixty rounds as sustained fire
-[X] Must be man-portable without the use of a sledge
--[X] If possible, two guns will be assigned to a 6-man MG section for redundancy.
-[X] May have special cart or sled mounts for strategic movement.
