DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have no idea what that is.
Small Arms Commission Quest
I have no idea what that is.
HanEmpire
Delicious
A suppressed sniper rifle. He wants us to build a quiet sniper rifle that uses AA rounds.
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
Almost a century before said integrally suppressed sniper rifle was first built.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
easy make the rifle able to hit the target far enough out that the target is dead before they hear the gun go off. Silent rifle.
: P
: P
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
Don't forget the part where it's fully automatic! 
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
fuck it, calling the vote.
Anti-Tank Guns Stage Two Part Three
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
With the cartridge chosen, it is time to finally set up design requirements for a weapon.
Harel Cseh wants a light practical rifle that will be available as soon as possible. Magazines don't particularly matter to him, and he's admitted that they're honestly extra weight. Single shot is good enough given how long it would actually take to reacquire a target after firing anyway (although Cseh grudgingly admits a tripod or sled mount from a Holborn or any of the heavy MGs would cut that down drastically.) Maybe it could have a little cartridge caddy if there was time and money for it. As for a machine gun, some Holborn derivative will probably be good enough, but something lighter might have some use elsewhere.
Sandor Ivalko wants the lightest practical machine gun for AA work and fitting onto existing armored cars, and while not as aggressively austere as Cseh, is skeptical that a magazine system is really worth it. That said, Ivalko is willing to add more weight to control recoil better and speed target acquisition times. Maybe even something with a flash/recoil suppressor on it to help with gas mitigation and prevent the rifle from being easily spotted.
Josip Kaldhoff wants a heavy machine gun capable of sustained fire, that can be maybe converted to a lighter aircooled version for the infantry and lighter armored cars. A single shot rifle is fairly useless in his book, so at a minimum he wants a semi-automatic action with a ten round magazine, that can fit on existing MG mounts. Flash suppression is obviously a requirement for night fighting, and would help the crews stay concealed, since surprise is a necessity.
Parsival Smyd doesn't have a dog in the machine gun-rifle fight, but thinks the need for recoil management is a bit overstated, since even the lightest rifles are going to be 40kg and fired from a bipod or a heavier fixed mount. And well, a machine gun for this is probably going to be fifty kg and fired from a fixed mount or a multi-ton vehicle, so that's even less of a problem.
Herceg Kaila is thinking more about practical applications at the moment, but he is pretty serious about a light rifle, using some heavy springs to manage recoil, and add a bit more weight to the gun so it stays emplaced better. That said, outside of a "light" 14.5mm machine gun like a Frankengatsch for existing vehicles, Kaila is pretty insistent that the way forward for 860 and beyond is going to be a dual role AA/AT machine gun, and a watercooled one at that. A rifle would be a really good stopgap for now, and there's plenty of people around who could cook up one that could be produced with a month or so (after all, the sleds and test barrels were designed and built in a weekend.) A flash suppressor for something like 14.5 would take a lot longer though.
SR Tidur thinks Herceg Kaila is being really optimistic about timescales, but does think that a practical and effective rifle could easily be produced by the end of the year (in four months or so.) That said, a Machine gun would take a year at least, since they're far more complicated. Tidur also thinks that while a rifle might not be effective alone, a section of them focused on one armored car will play the numbers well enough, so cost and ease of production should be the priority. As such all unnecessary luxuries should be dispensed with.
With opinions in hand, you can begin to sculpt requirements for both categories should you choose to have them. This will be Vote By Plan, with Rifle and MG blocks, so make your own votes.
Harel Cseh wants a light practical rifle that will be available as soon as possible. Magazines don't particularly matter to him, and he's admitted that they're honestly extra weight. Single shot is good enough given how long it would actually take to reacquire a target after firing anyway (although Cseh grudgingly admits a tripod or sled mount from a Holborn or any of the heavy MGs would cut that down drastically.) Maybe it could have a little cartridge caddy if there was time and money for it. As for a machine gun, some Holborn derivative will probably be good enough, but something lighter might have some use elsewhere.
Sandor Ivalko wants the lightest practical machine gun for AA work and fitting onto existing armored cars, and while not as aggressively austere as Cseh, is skeptical that a magazine system is really worth it. That said, Ivalko is willing to add more weight to control recoil better and speed target acquisition times. Maybe even something with a flash/recoil suppressor on it to help with gas mitigation and prevent the rifle from being easily spotted.
Josip Kaldhoff wants a heavy machine gun capable of sustained fire, that can be maybe converted to a lighter aircooled version for the infantry and lighter armored cars. A single shot rifle is fairly useless in his book, so at a minimum he wants a semi-automatic action with a ten round magazine, that can fit on existing MG mounts. Flash suppression is obviously a requirement for night fighting, and would help the crews stay concealed, since surprise is a necessity.
Parsival Smyd doesn't have a dog in the machine gun-rifle fight, but thinks the need for recoil management is a bit overstated, since even the lightest rifles are going to be 40kg and fired from a bipod or a heavier fixed mount. And well, a machine gun for this is probably going to be fifty kg and fired from a fixed mount or a multi-ton vehicle, so that's even less of a problem.
Herceg Kaila is thinking more about practical applications at the moment, but he is pretty serious about a light rifle, using some heavy springs to manage recoil, and add a bit more weight to the gun so it stays emplaced better. That said, outside of a "light" 14.5mm machine gun like a Frankengatsch for existing vehicles, Kaila is pretty insistent that the way forward for 860 and beyond is going to be a dual role AA/AT machine gun, and a watercooled one at that. A rifle would be a really good stopgap for now, and there's plenty of people around who could cook up one that could be produced with a month or so (after all, the sleds and test barrels were designed and built in a weekend.) A flash suppressor for something like 14.5 would take a lot longer though.
SR Tidur thinks Herceg Kaila is being really optimistic about timescales, but does think that a practical and effective rifle could easily be produced by the end of the year (in four months or so.) That said, a Machine gun would take a year at least, since they're far more complicated. Tidur also thinks that while a rifle might not be effective alone, a section of them focused on one armored car will play the numbers well enough, so cost and ease of production should be the priority. As such all unnecessary luxuries should be dispensed with.
With opinions in hand, you can begin to sculpt requirements for both categories should you choose to have them. This will be Vote By Plan, with Rifle and MG blocks, so make your own votes.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
[X] Plan Blyat
-[X] MG
--[X] Fits on existing (Mg.08) heavy gun tripods
--[X] Has provisions for thirty rounds of fire in succession
--[X] Is air-cooled.
-[X] Rifle
--[X] Can be mounted on tripods/bipods in existant service
--[X] Has a flash hider and/or supressor
--[X] Has features or mechanisms to control recoil in order to get a second follow-up shot on a moving target inside of a minute.
-[X] MG
--[X] Fits on existing (Mg.08) heavy gun tripods
--[X] Has provisions for thirty rounds of fire in succession
--[X] Is air-cooled.
-[X] Rifle
--[X] Can be mounted on tripods/bipods in existant service
--[X] Has a flash hider and/or supressor
--[X] Has features or mechanisms to control recoil in order to get a second follow-up shot on a moving target inside of a minute.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Blyat
- Location
- USA
[X] Jaeger
-[X] MG
-[X] MG
-[X] Fits on existing (Mg.08) heavy gun tripods.
-[X] Must be liquid cooled, or if air cooled it must have a barrel that can be swapped out in a reasonable time frame under combat conditions.
-[X] Must be capable of at least 10 round bursts with a 2 second interval period for up to 15 minutes, excluding time for reloading.
-[X] Must have provisions to be broken down to be more practically carried by infantry.
-[X] Rifle-[X] Must be liquid cooled, or if air cooled it must have a barrel that can be swapped out in a reasonable time frame under combat conditions.
-[X] Must be capable of at least 10 round bursts with a 2 second interval period for up to 15 minutes, excluding time for reloading.
-[X] Must have provisions to be broken down to be more practically carried by infantry.
-[X] Can be mounted on tripods/bipods in existant service.
-[X] Must be bolt action.
-[X] Must be practically transportable by no more than 2 men over a distance of 5 miles of bad terrain.
-[X] Must have a barrel life of at least 1000 shots.
-[X] Must be easily maintained in the field.
-[X] Must be bolt action.
-[X] Must be practically transportable by no more than 2 men over a distance of 5 miles of bad terrain.
-[X] Must have a barrel life of at least 1000 shots.
-[X] Must be easily maintained in the field.
Last edited:
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So basically were looking at a quick and easy AT rifle, and a more involved HMG?
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Pretty much.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
[X] Plan Blyat
CthuluWasRight
Fresh Meat for the SV Grinder
- Location
- Canada
For some reason seeing all these Meows from @NothingNow is making me nervous.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're making the MG for the purpose of fixed defense and the rifle to be more mobile for offensive operations, correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're making the MG for the purpose of fixed defense and the rifle to be more mobile for offensive operations, correct?
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
Look, Meows are valuable enough it might keep you all coming.
And ehh kinda. The MG is heavier and can be used for a bunch of stuff. Like armored cars, anti-aircraft work, and as a relatively fixed defense. The rifle will be like half the weight, and probably around the same range as existing Heavy Machine Guns, so that can be used on existing armored cars (or the really light ones,) and be somewhat man portable.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Blyat
Zeroth Jupi
Sporadic Writer and Haver of Ideas
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Plan Blyat
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
I'll probably have to adjust the dates at some point, since this is currently barely a year on from the start of the war somehow.
But the reason why armored cars have developed so fast in universe is because both the Werser and Carragian Armies really got into mechanization for the Horse Artillery very early on. So you've both gone from like the Charron, Girardot et Voigt 1902, and other technical looking things as janky as the Armoured Autocar that were all prewar designs to fairly sophisticated designs more like Minervas, Ford FT-Bs and Rolls Royce Armored Cars within six months. It's been a bit of a back and forth, but the design that set off this competition was something of a quantum leap since it managed to fit a 37mm trench gun on a very well protected (5mm over the body as a whole, and 16mm max on the fighting compartment) and fairly mobile chassis (which can hit 40km/h or so.) This while the best the Gemeinsame Armee had planned was a 4x4 derivative of the thing Kaldhoff lost an eye in, with 12mm of armor maximum and a heavy machine gun in a turret (along with the related trucks which mounted 37mm AA guns and 7cm DP guns, but weren't nearly as well armored.)
Needless to say, they mostly see use in scouting, supporting the cavalry, attempting to break through to vulnerable positions and harassing other scouts. Pretty much anything you guys develop at this point will hang around to SACQ II and the vehicles that mount them will hang around post war.
But the reason why armored cars have developed so fast in universe is because both the Werser and Carragian Armies really got into mechanization for the Horse Artillery very early on. So you've both gone from like the Charron, Girardot et Voigt 1902, and other technical looking things as janky as the Armoured Autocar that were all prewar designs to fairly sophisticated designs more like Minervas, Ford FT-Bs and Rolls Royce Armored Cars within six months. It's been a bit of a back and forth, but the design that set off this competition was something of a quantum leap since it managed to fit a 37mm trench gun on a very well protected (5mm over the body as a whole, and 16mm max on the fighting compartment) and fairly mobile chassis (which can hit 40km/h or so.) This while the best the Gemeinsame Armee had planned was a 4x4 derivative of the thing Kaldhoff lost an eye in, with 12mm of armor maximum and a heavy machine gun in a turret (along with the related trucks which mounted 37mm AA guns and 7cm DP guns, but weren't nearly as well armored.)
Needless to say, they mostly see use in scouting, supporting the cavalry, attempting to break through to vulnerable positions and harassing other scouts. Pretty much anything you guys develop at this point will hang around to SACQ II and the vehicles that mount them will hang around post war.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
For anyone reading this and wondering how this ties into SACQ 3/2, at this present moment (pre-adjustments) we're about... ten, twelve months off of the start of the Irromic Armor Commission. Post-adjustments, and the reason for said adjustments, was that this was supposed to be vaguely contemporary with the opening of SAQC 3/2 as part off why anti-tank weapons weren't widely available enough for use in the initial trials.
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
Yo, interim tally.