- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's what I'm trying to say!
Small Arms Commission Quest
That's what I'm trying to say!
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Soooo... why, exactly do you want this gun to have the trigger pull of a rusty stapler again? Something which is bad for literally everything about actually shooting a pistol?
Sarpedon
Knight Errant
- Pronouns
- He/Him
5 lbs is light for the period and would be lighter than those of our current cavalry revolver. To give an example of required trigger pulls in trials around this time period, the USA required a minimum of 6 lbs, and Lugers would be for the most part around the same though some were lower than 5 pounds. Furthermore this is a turn of the century military pistol, not a modern race gun, you aren't gonna have a 2 lb or under trigger pull.
Claudette Savagely
Ball of flies
- Location
- (and made of) Parts Unknown
[x]Plan for the Future
-[x] Pistol is to be common across cavalry and infantry, as such the weapon must be of a locked breech design.
-[x]Pistol must hold at least 7 rounds in the detachable box magazine, have a trigger pull of at least 2.3kg, manual safety that is not a grip safety and ergonomic, easy to clean with little or no tools required for disassembly. Caliber must be at the least 7.5mm and muzzle velocity no less than 340m/s. Indication of a loaded chamber is also important.
If we could at a later stage specify a long barrel cavalry variant so as to take advantage of the muzzle velocity requirement and placate the roughriders pre-emptively, so much the better.
If the competition doesn't allow for that, lol unto them.
-[x] Pistol is to be common across cavalry and infantry, as such the weapon must be of a locked breech design.
-[x]Pistol must hold at least 7 rounds in the detachable box magazine, have a trigger pull of at least 2.3kg, manual safety that is not a grip safety and ergonomic, easy to clean with little or no tools required for disassembly. Caliber must be at the least 7.5mm and muzzle velocity no less than 340m/s. Indication of a loaded chamber is also important.
If we could at a later stage specify a long barrel cavalry variant so as to take advantage of the muzzle velocity requirement and placate the roughriders pre-emptively, so much the better.
If the competition doesn't allow for that, lol unto them.
- Location
- SMS Odette II
Don't forget detachable shoulder stock/holsters!
Claudette Savagely
Ball of flies
- Location
- (and made of) Parts Unknown
Naturally!
Hollow stocks for en bloc clip and cleaning tool storage y/n?
Rather not complicate the manufacturing process any more than strictly necessary but if they increase mean time to failure and field endurance, then perhaps...
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Well no, I don't seriously expect to get a two pound trigger pull. I'd like it, but to be honest its a take what you can get sort of deal and it aught to see us with a four to three and a half pound trigger pull.
Fiddly bits in a fiddly bit that's probably going to get dropped, kicked, and bludgeoned into some savage's skull? An excellent idea, old chap.
/s
No that's a terrible idea. Anything more complicated than a coffee grinder will inevitably get smashed up. These are pistols- expect them to do a lot of smashing.
Claudette Savagely
Ball of flies
- Location
- (and made of) Parts Unknown
Tell us what you really think.
- Location
- Luton Airport
We're not colonialists in the setting.
- Location
- Luton Airport
I know what he was referring to. The fact remains that the country in setting isn't a colonial one like the US or UK, its fighting peer powers, hence why most military pistols of the era were an ornamental afterthought.
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In all fairness, if one expects to fight the english, one must accept that these strange and unwholesome folk from their dismal, sunless isle are indeed savage. /s
- Location
- Luton Airport
That's backwards. Pistols were a legitimate and deadly military arm in the black powder era, specifically wheellocks, despite being far more costly than the infantry matchlock. It's only later that they become largely ornamental markers of rank/self defence implements.
The problem was that each pistol produced meant that you could build less muskets.
And having more infantry, that had much less upkeep cost, was often preferred to setting up a much smaller amount of pistol armed cavalry, which represented a much higher investment in time and equipment ,especially the horses, and were each loss was felt much more.
Also the tactics like the caracole for example proved somewhat ineffective.
And having more infantry, that had much less upkeep cost, was often preferred to setting up a much smaller amount of pistol armed cavalry, which represented a much higher investment in time and equipment ,especially the horses, and were each loss was felt much more.
Also the tactics like the caracole for example proved somewhat ineffective.
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- Location
- SMS Odette II
Pistols never really ceased to be a fundamentally important cavalry weapon until the marriage of smokeless powder, practical rifling, and repeating actions which is the occurrence we are currently witnessing.
Are you out of your mind?
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
That was like a German/French/Italian thing. Everyone else wanted and fielded a pretty meaty revolver after the 1860s, until you get to stuff like the Nagant.
No need to attack me.
Apart from reiter IMHO, pistols for cavalry were secondary weapons.
Cuirasiers went from lances to swords, Uhlans and Lanciers used lances, the main weapon of Hussars was a saber, others quickly adopted the carabine.
So no, I really don't think that pistols were that important. It may be that US cavalry made extensive use of revolvers, but that is an exception, not the rule.
There is a reason why some cavalry used braces of pistol as secondary armament. You simply could not reload them while engaged in battle!
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Claudette Savagely
Ball of flies
- Location
- (and made of) Parts Unknown
Given that cavalry armed with heavy pistols and swords fought with distinction across the length and breadth of Europe during the terror that was the Thirty Years War, this edit: notion is wrong on its face, even though the caracole wasn't a terribly clever idea in practice.
We need only look at the Battle of Breitenfeld to see that the Swedes had no problem equipping a formidable force of cavalry and arming their musketeers equally well.
Hell, Pappenheim's Black Cuirassiers would certainly contest the notion that their pistols were an ineffective irrelevance, as would any US cavalryman who might have carried the 1848 Colt Dragoon, specifically made for use from the saddle.
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- Location
- Germiston, South Africa
Poppycock
From pike and shot onward, pistols were a decisive and effective weapon for cavalry and swordsman infantry right up until the Great War.
No soldier of the period would agree with you. No wargame or simulation of the period that I have ever seen would agree with you.
You are projecting modern into the past.
Apropo of which, the SAS, who get to choose their weapons, often carry pistol on the grounds that it is superior for house-clearing and other CQB.
So, once again, poppycock, tommyrot, and other similar comments
- Location
- Luton Airport
I was assuming the current 11mm cavalry revolver was an analogue to the A-H Gast 1870, which pretty quickly got reduced in calibre to 9mm for the officers sidearm, both then getting rolled up into the Rast Gasser 8mm, which wasn't exactly a powerhouse (though it was 8 shot).
I don't see where the SAS has any relevance in a discussion about cavalry pistols.
They have nothing to do with cavalry and are special forces whose mission does not in any way correspond to that of cavalry.
And between the wheel locks of Breitenfeld ( Gustavus Adolphus had even instituted new cavalry tactics because the caracole was regarded as a tactic of dubious value) and the widespread of revolvers, pistol were regarded as secondary, if not tertiary when you include artillery.
They have nothing to do with cavalry and are special forces whose mission does not in any way correspond to that of cavalry.
And between the wheel locks of Breitenfeld ( Gustavus Adolphus had even instituted new cavalry tactics because the caracole was regarded as a tactic of dubious value) and the widespread of revolvers, pistol were regarded as secondary, if not tertiary when you include artillery.
NothingNow
Corpse Wrangler
- Location
- Tampa
It's a S&W Model 3 actually. I really like the top break aesthetic.
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Webley MK. I or nothing.