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Small Arms Commission Quest

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Early semi auto's tended to be rather crappy in the reliabilty department,especially the magazines and often were very complicated,e.g. they were more rube goldberg machines than the well engeneered pistol we areaccustomed today.
I'd suggest going with a big , easily reloadable revolver for general isssue and a semi auto with detachable stock for private purchase and for special issue.
 
EWilanO said:
Early semi auto's tended to be rather crappy in the reliabilty department,especially the magazines and often were very complicated,e.g. they were more rube goldberg machines than the well engeneered pistol we areaccustomed today.
I'd suggest going with a big , easily reloadable revolver for general isssue and a semi auto with detachable stock for private purchase and for special issue.
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Yeah but our commission is specifically to explore self-loading pistols.

NothingNow said:
The Cavalry and Infantry Officers have grown a bit tired of carrying around giant single action revolvers and have begun agitating for a commission to study to cover those new-fangled Self-loading pistols, and approve them for adoption or private purchase if they meet standards.

Naturally at the moment, you're under pressure from the officers who want to buy new shiny tax-deductible things, gunsmiths who want to sell them new shiny tax deductible things, and the Army General Headquarters who don't see what all the fuss is about and would rather you didn't waste funds on silly things like a new pistol without getting something to show for it. Especially since Army General Headquarters were just forced into spending 50 000 thalers on Arbatescu-built Dumonthier guns. Fortunately, the Kaiser is rather fond of novelties (like Dumonthier guns,) and has ordered an investigation into the various self-loading pistols presently on the market to take place starting in FY856.
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I don't care if the revolvers a top break or swing-out, as long as they have an ejector and can be reloaded quickly and can be fire double action without having to do strenght training for the triger finger.
 
HanEmpire said:
I'm sure we'll get some revolver candidates regardless, trying to convince us to go for old faithfuls instead of newfangled fragile clockworks.
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Nonsense, the overt appearance or use of bribery to get a revolver into a commission; (Which is what it would take) whose sole remit is to examine semiautos would be so gauche the offender would get slapped so hard their grandkids would feel it. Like the Kaiser himself said HEY GUYS LOOK INTO THIS SHIT AND GET ME A NEW SHINY.
 
Sarpedon said:
Nonsense, the overt appearance or use of bribery to get a revolver into a commission; (Which is what it would take) whose sole remit is to examine semiautos would be so gauche the offender would get slapped so hard their grandkids would feel it. Like the Kaiser himself said HEY GUYS LOOK INTO THIS SHIT AND GET ME A NEW SHINY.
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Shiny, you say? :drevil:
 
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Self-Loading Pistol Commission Stage Two
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    • [20] SR Tidur, Engineer for the Ordinance Board.
    [20] Bursa Jan, firearms designer.
    [19] Saul Raussenstein, physician.
    [18] Josip Kaldhoff, Cavalry officer
    [18] Parsival Smyd, ballistics expert.
    [17] Fan Dogali, explosives chemist

    Now, with the commission assembled, it is time to decide what sorts of firearms you want to look at. Should you split the competition into multiple categories? Should you allow unlocked breech designs, or only locked breech firearms? What features are going to be prioritized, how powerful should the cartridges be ideally, and what sorts of stakeholders should be consulted?

    SR Tidur, not being required to make this shit work in a factory setting is pretty laissez-faire about design complexity this time, but is suggesting that two classes might be a good idea, since it wouldn't lead to some utterly unimportant section dominating the competition to the detriment of actual fighting arms.

    Bursa Jan doesn't like unlocked breech designs at all, wants a relatively high power cartridge, and would ideally like to get a family of weapons with parts compatibility that can be scaled to individual service requirements. If that isn't possible, priority should be given to the cavalry side of the competition since officers can just suck it up, while artillery crews and drivers will probably just want something effective that is mostly out of the way. Detachable box magazines might be worth the cost, but compatibility will always be an issue, and something like a packet loader or those nifty feed strips the Kirte Navy adopted with their rifle would probably be better.

    Saul Raussenstein expresses a particularly strong opinion here. At a minimum, any pistol adopted should be designed around good ergonomics in a way that reduces wrist strain over the present revolver, enhances point shooting, and enables easier reloading in low-light conditions. Also, the cartridge on any pistol should be stronger than the shitty velo-dog Raussenstein bought when he took up cycling which has a hard time killing a dog, never mind a person.

    Josip Kaldhoff likes big bores and he cannot lie. But seriously, Kaldhoff is leaning hard in a cavalry first direction, with secondary consideration given to the needs of artillery crews, drivers et cetera. While he might admit that an unlocked breech is okay for a tiny little vest pistol, Kaldhoff wants to be able to kill a horse through a horse and only a locked breech firearm will do that. Quick reloading in whatever form it takes should be a priority, since one of the cavalry's main tactical advantages over other nations at the moment is how the M.829 is a top-break which can use speed loaders.

    Parsival Smyd is talking up a big game over small(er) bore high(er) velocity cartridges, and thinks something like seven to nine millimeters might make as much an improvement for pistols as the move did for rifles. After all, the present eleven millimeter round only moves at around 230m/s, while some of the newer small bore rounds around are almost hitting 400m/s while allowing for more compact ammunition. Other than that, Smyd thinks a split competition might be best, with a lighter class for officers and a full-size class to get a proper replacement for the M.829.

    Fan Dogali honestly doesn't know why he's here. He can't even really give decent criticism because he's a chemist, not an engineer. Maybe he can call bullshit or suggest ammo improvements later on, but in the interim Dogali doesn't care that much. Maybe a split competition would be better, since he doesn't imagine infantry officers would enjoy being told they have to buy whatever monstrosity Kaldhoff pushes for, and that could be a problem politically.

    With opinions in hand, you have options. This will be vote by plan, so make your own votes.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Plan Split the Party
    [X] One category should be locked breach only and preferably be a heavier, larger gun that uses the current round (or a minimal modification thereof) and give the cavalry a reliable automatic pistol. Detachable box magazines for this category are absurd and we should look into a packet loader or charging clips.
    [X] A lighter category that can be locked or unlocked breech. It and probably should use a smaller round for officers to carry/optionally purchase. No one wants a great lump of a pistol breaking up the lines on their uniform on parade or at a party after all. For a smaller private purchase pistol, box magazines are more feasible​
     
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    [X] Plan Kill Cavalry
    -[X] Large bore, preferably using existing 11mm round, but if people have something nutso they want to throw at us, let's do it.
    -[X] Locked breech designs preference
    -[X] Emphasis on ergonomics and quick reload times, whether via stripper clip or magazine
    -[X] Fuck the infantry, they should've bought horses.
     
    Mila said:
    [X] Split the Party
    [X] One category should be locked breach only and preferably be a heavier, larger gun that uses the current round (or a minimal modification thereof) and give the cavalry a reliable automatic pistol. Detachable box magazines for this category are absurd and we should look into a packet loader or charging clips.
    [X] A lighter category that can be locked or unlocked breech. using a smaller round for officers to carry/optionally purchase. No one wants a great lump of a pistol breaking up the lines on their uniform on parade or at a party after all. For a smaller private purchase pistol, box magazines are more feasible​
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    i'm thinking we do the holster stock for the lighter pistol. let the artillery and vehicle crews use the thing as a poor man's carbine.

    have hollow points been banned yet? give those to the officers.
     
    [X] Plan Fuckit
    -[X] Design the competition in two parts: cavalry pistol and other pistol.
    -[X] Cavalry Type Requirements: Must be at least 7.5mm bore, external hammer, 9 inch barrel, and carry eight rounds or more. Locking breech is recomended.
    -[X] Other Type Requirements: Must carry at least 9 rounds and reach equivalent muzzle velocity of current service pistols with at least six inch barrel, along with possessing a safety or external hammer. Longer barrels, detachable stocks, and detachable magazines are recommended.

    Jesus fucking Christ have any of you shot pistol before? A .44 caliber round can and will wreck your wrist if you're not careful, and its not really better than a small fast one at this point.
     
    how about we grab a dozen dead pigs, set up some testing rigs and try the various pistol round sizes on them? Calvary pistols favor damage, other pistols favor ease of use.
     
    Basically plan fuckit, but modified.
    [X] Plan "Being Austria-Hungary doesn't mean we have to suck at logistics
    -[X] Design the competition in two parts: cavalry pistol and other pistol.
    -[X] Require unified cartridge for both pistols, parts commonality preferred but not required.
    -[X] Cavalry Type Requirements: Must be at least 7.5mm bore, external hammer, 9 inch barrel, and carry eight rounds or more. Locking breech is recomended.
    -[X] Other Type Requirements: Must carry at least 9 rounds and reach equivalent muzzle velocity of current service pistols with at least six inch barrel, along with possessing a safety or external hammer. Longer barrels, detachable stocks, and detachable magazines are recommended.
     
    I feel exploring pistol designs which keep most of their action behind the grip might be really good for cavalry (a la the luger and C93), and I think a detachable box magazine is a fucking trap given how difficult it is to manufacture magazines that work consistently without spending a fuckload. I also think that Kaldhoff can go sulk in a corner while the big boys talk right now because if we can swing a big magazine of little bullets that might be preferable in the long run. I am kinda picturing a weapon that resembles a broomhandle but with mechanism shifted back so that the magazine can run through the handle maybe?

    Basically, we don't want something front-heavy and we don't want magazines.

    Basically plan fuckit, but modified.
    [X] Plan "Being Austria-Hungary doesn't mean we have to suck at logistics
    -[X] Design the competition in two parts: cavalry pistol and other pistol.
    -[X] Require unified cartridge for both pistols, parts commonality preferred but not required.
    -[X] Cavalry Type Requirements: Must be at least 7.5mm bore, external hammer, 9 inch barrel, and carry eight rounds or more. Locking breech is recomended.
    -[X] Other Type Requirements: Must carry at least 9 rounds and reach equivalent muzzle velocity of current service pistols with at least six inch barrel, along with possessing a safety or external hammer. Longer barrels, detachable stocks, and detachable magazines are recommended.
     
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