Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

Its in the role.
An IFV transport troops and give them support fire.
An MBT attacks and defend positions and maybe give support fire for infantry.

The Tiger already can do both, much like the Merkava, but without its flaws.


I have seen the design proposals. They are Warhammer tanks. Heavy complicated tanks, full of guns and large scale missiles.

I thought about how they could have toned down, without being over the top, but it always ended up as an updated Tiger.

Armor? In the age of Pilum it dos not matter much. Ablative armor is an option, but tha does not need new chassis either.
Barriers? A larger chassis does not hold advantage over a Tiger. With Cyclonic we hit the roof, how powerful a kinetic barrier can be per area.
Power? it stopped being issue since the beginning the quest.
Weapons? Tiger's basic weaponry is sufficient to defeat any ground vehicle.
@Hoyr

Can we significantly improve the heat dissipation system of the Tiger by sacrificing transport capacity?
 
Can we significantly improve the heat dissipation system of the Tiger by sacrificing transport capacity?
I agree. i see no reason that we couldn't take the tiger chassis, remove the troop storage compartment, and place stronger barriers, a more powerful main gun, more storage capacity for the pilum (and other missile) launchers mounted on the exterior, a drone bay, and a seat for the drones' operator.

This gives us a tougher vehicle that maintains the mobility of the tiger, but has a bigger punch and the ability to scout and better defend itself with out blowing buildings apart to take out attacking infantry if it gets isolated. It should also be pretty easy to add to the maintenance skills of the military's engineers as it is basically a modified tiger and shares most of its systems with it.

We may want to make a version without drones as well, depending on whether or not we wanted to sell them, which based on the fact that we haven't so far, i assume we don't plan to. We could instead include an ELINT suite and operator or a command and control node with a good sized QEC once we get to that researched.
 
Paragon Industries Light Tank design proposal 0.1
PI-HT(I)-01A
Codename: Anchovy

Role: Infantry Support, and Autonomous Operation

Mass Aprox.: ~10000 tons

Weaponry:
  • Primary Weapon - Paragon Industries UHP-02 Universal Hardpoint (See Equipment)
  • Secondary Weapon - 6x Paragon Industries 750 MW Laser broadside Infinite Repeaters
  • Tertiary Weapons - 4x Paragon Industries UHP-01 Universal Hardpoints
Defensive Systems:
  • Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
  • Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
Power Systems:
  • 3x Paragon Industries Arc Reactors (5 TW)
Motive Systems:
  • 8x Paragon Industries RT-01-330E thrusters in free swivel mounts
  • 2 Track All Terrain Maneuver System
  • Paragon Industries' LD-ME-01 Mass Nullification System
Complement:
  • 1x Driver (optional)
  • 1x Gunner (optional)
  • 1x Commander (optional)
  • 1x Spotter (optional)
  • 1x Engineer (optional)
Additional Systems
  • Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
  • Neural interface control system
  • Communications Relay
  • Battle Network
  • Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
Equipment:
  • Main Gun Options
    • Paragon Industries MAC-02-350
    • Paragon Industries RT-01-100C
    • Paragon Industries LCT-01-001M
  • All Main Guns come with a co-axially mounted Hasta Autoannon
  • Tertiary Weapon Options (include but not limited to)
    • Super Pilum Anti-Tank Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
    • 15cm Automatic Mortar (8,100 grenades) (ROF: 500 rpm)
    • "World Burner" Super Heavy Flamer
    • Super Sagitta Ammo Pods (with 40,000 missiles)

Parasites:
  • 150 "small" drones
  • 10 "large" drones
  • 1 Tiger rapid escape vehicle

Because Moar overkill:V
 
Paragon Industries Light Tank design proposal 0.1
PI-HT(I)-01A
Codename: Anchovy

Role: Infantry Support, and Autonomous Operation

Mass Aprox.: ~10000 tons

Weaponry:
  • Primary Weapon - Paragon Industries UHP-02 Universal Hardpoint (See Equipment)
  • Secondary Weapon - 6x Paragon Industries 750 MW Laser broadside Infinite Repeaters
  • Tertiary Weapons - 4x Paragon Industries UHP-01 Universal Hardpoints
Defensive Systems:
  • Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
  • Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
Power Systems:
  • 3x Paragon Industries Arc Reactors (5 TW)
Motive Systems:
  • 8x Paragon Industries RT-01-330E thrusters in free swivel mounts
  • 2 Track All Terrain Maneuver System
  • Paragon Industries' LD-ME-01 Mass Nullification System
Complement:
  • 1x Driver (optional)
  • 1x Gunner (optional)
  • 1x Commander (optional)
  • 1x Spotter (optional)
  • 1x Engineer (optional)
Additional Systems
  • Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package.
  • Neural interface control system
  • Communications Relay
  • Battle Network
  • Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
Equipment:
  • Main Gun Options
    • Paragon Industries MAC-02-350
    • Paragon Industries RT-01-100C
    • Paragon Industries LCT-01-001M
  • All Main Guns come with a co-axially mounted Hasta Autoannon
  • Tertiary Weapon Options (include but not limited to)
    • Super Pilum Anti-Tank Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
    • 15cm Automatic Mortar (8,100 grenades) (ROF: 500 rpm)
    • "World Burner" Super Heavy Flamer
    • Super Sagitta Ammo Pods (with 40,000 missiles)

Parasites:
  • 150 "small" drones
  • 10 "large" drones
  • 1 Tiger rapid escape vehicle

Because Moar overkill:V

You know, we do not have the PSU tech yet.
Also, broadside lasers? Really?
 
What about a mobile barrier generator?

Something like SubComs shield tanks and the like. A proper tank should have enough volume to fit one of our 40TW generators and some hefty projectors. It would make infantry effectively immune against snipers, most groundside kinetic weapons and light orbital bombardement.


We could also go at it sideways and instead of some tank just take a Gladius, strip out the FTL core and add much more armor along with Repulsors in swivel mounts and use them as a gunship that can hug the ground exceedingly well but also break for orbit and contest the skies.
 
What about a mobile barrier generator?

Something like SubComs shield tanks and the like. A proper tank should have enough volume to fit one of our 40TW generators and some hefty projectors. It would make infantry effectively immune against snipers, most groundside kinetic weapons and light orbital bombardement.


We could also go at it sideways and instead of some tank just take a Gladius, strip out the FTL core and add much more armor along with Repulsors in swivel mounts and use them as a gunship that can hug the ground exceedingly well but also break for orbit and contest the skies.
We are in the process of a paradigm shift for ground combat. Making ground combatans (tanks and infantry) able to make planetfall and reach orbital under their own power is on that list.

Let me try a design again:
PI-MBT-M2 design proposal

Role: Infantry Support, Heavy Combat and Autonomous Operation

Complement:
  • Commander (Optional)
  • Gunner (Optional)
  • Driver (Optional)
Power Systems:
  • 4x 50GW Paragon Industries Second Generation Arc Reactor
Motive Systems:
  • All Terrain Track Drive System w/ Road wheels
  • 8x Paragon Industries RT-01-330E thrusters in free swivel mounts
  • Paragon Industries' LD-ME-02 Mass Nullification System
Weaponry:
  • Primary Weapon - Paragon Industries UHP-01 Universal Hardpoint
  • 2x 4m length Coaxial machine gun MAC (modable in combat)
  • 4x 1m length quadro linked machine gun sponsons (remote weapon system, automated or direct control)
  • 4 optional weapon system hardpoint on chassy (See Equipment)
Defensive systems:
  • Paragon Industries ACA-02 Lorica
  • Paragon Industries KB-02 Castra
  • 4x Paragon Industries SM-01 Point Defense turrets
Additional systems:
  • Vacuum rated with full hostile environments package
  • Neural interface control system for all personal
  • Communications Relay
  • Battle Network
  • Advanced Paragon Industries VI system providing full Fire Control as well as Remote and Autonomous operation.
Equipment:
  • Primary Weapon Systems:
    • Paragon Industries 350mm caliber 4m length MAC with Paragon Industries Auto-loader for 350mm (Dart, HE, Can, HEAT, nuke)
    • Paragon Industries Repulsor Cannon
    • Paragon Industries Laser
  • Secondary Weapon Options (include but not limited to)
    • Super-Hydra Missile Launcher (with 80 missiles)
    • 120mm Automatic Mortar (with 8,100 grenades)
    • "World Burner" Flame thrower
The idea above is equipped with a ot of weapons. This is in fact to much but barely more than the Tiger has.
Point for point:
  • Similar primary weapon just a but heavier
  • 2 heavy coaxial maschine guns instead of one 'light' Hasta Autocannon
  • same number of defence turrets
  • only 4 instead of 6 secondary weapon system
  • 4 sponsons. Those are side mounted and allow the design to keep a constant threat of retilation and covering fire on its flanks. Given how fast combat is and the lack of battle lines it is a must as the main turret can not turn fast enough to threaten multi directional attacks.
  • Armor and shield strenght are both higher than the tiger as they have increased thickness/projectors and updated materials/generators.
 
Portec just be aware that a war machine of that level of destructiveness operating w/o crew might send Geth 2.0 vibes to the council races
 
It may well be fine, but i see "sponson" and i cringe. Fortunately, being automated (or at least, controlled electronically), proper design can render that much less of a bad idea than irl. (massive weak point in the armour, among other issues, if i remember right?) Primarilly, i think, by mouting them Outside the main armour, with the only weak point being the hole for the controll and power lines (solvable by wireless connections and independant power supplies, respectively), and, of course, powerful shields cover a multitude of sins :p

...
At least they're not fireing ports! :p
 
Last edited:
*Sigh* People, would you kindly stop with the "naval gun" super heavy wunderwaffe projects and go to sensible things. Once more, the plan was to get MEDIUM armor from market (I doubt the weight goes over 100 tons) and upgrade it with our armor/gear/guns.

Stop asking for bigger guns, it doesn't need bigger guns. How is that you ask? Simple...let's make an example.

This is Patria AMV with 105 mm low recoil gun. (ignore the massive turret ring, the gun is from CV90105)



Weight about 25 tons. Completely capable to shoot while driving or on slope. Light vehicles like this usually use specially made low recoil weapons. Doesn't have same penetration figures as "normal" 105 mm guns but hey, at least the vehicle can do mobile operations and light vehicles aren't used for tank killing if there isn't any ATGM loaded.

This abomination is M1128 Stryker MGS



Weight, about 25 tons.

It has full power M68A gun (or Royal Ordnance L7 if that original name doesn't ring a bell). If you wonder why, it's because General Dynamics was greedy and didn't want to pay someone for low recoil gun when they got stock of M60 Patton guns laying around.

If that gun is fired without pepper pot muzzle break, vehicle WILL roll over. It's almost too powerful even with muzzle brake. Also, don't bother shooting that thing while driving and be careful around slopes.

So, final point is that "Dinky" little gun on 3x3 light AVF like Mako is totally different animal from big gun at tank which has much more weight to fight Newton's 3rd law.

Now, again. Would you kindly stop asking for big 80 ton a piece naval guns on MEDIUM armor, please.
 
Now, again. Would you kindly stop asking for big 80 ton a piece naval guns on MEDIUM armor, please.

Well, you see - we are in age of kinetic barriers and arc reactors. If we want to get somewhat reasonable probability of one-hit-kill for enemy armor we might need such guns. Unless we somehow drastically change muzzle velocity. Which tech would help us with that?
 
Well, you see - we are in age of kinetic barriers and arc reactors. If we want to get somewhat reasonable probability of one-hit-kill for enemy armor we might need such guns. Unless we somehow drastically change muzzle velocity. Which tech would help us with that?

Just use a laser to take down barriers.

The 155mm MAC on the Tiger is already sufficiently powerful to take down heavy armor.

The proposed 350mm is simply too big for for an MBT to fire without assistance. Also it is a L/11.5 !!! cannon. It is lamost short as mortar. For an effective AT gan yo need an L/40 barrel at least.

If you want better main gun just make the 155m cannon longer.

A modern MBT gun is over 5-6m. The one in the last proposal is only 4m.

An L/42 155m MAC would give more kinetic energy and flatter trajectory, than the L/11 350mm gun.
 
Now, again. Would you kindly stop asking for big 80 ton a piece naval guns on MEDIUM armor, please.
The terms "light" "medium" and "heavy" are completely arbitrary of course.

Also, I thinking more along the lines of Reaper War tech. It's not applicable now but . . .

Hey @Hoyr , how big can we make land units before we need to research Planetary Siege Unit first?
 
If we want a 1 hit kill for enemy armour we'd be better off with a laser system precisely because there's Arc Reactor powered kinetic barriers in play. Lasers look at kinetic barriers and note that it's doing nothing to light...

Seriously, for the first time since the galaxy discovered the mass effect there's going to be a dual threat on the battlefield; the MAC that requires strong shields to protect against but has massive recoil, and the laser, which ignores shields but can be defended against with the proper ablative armour.

You want a (modern day for the galaxy) tank killer? Grab a laser system, put it on a high mobility platform with strong shields and good heat management systems and see it slaughter the enemy.

You want to kill that? Grab a laser system and put it on a fast tracking turret backed by thick slabs of armour.

You want to kill that? Grab a MAC, slap on some thick armour and see it blow it to bits on a single hit.

You want to kill that? Grab a MAC, some high power shields and enough mass not to roll over when shooting while scooting.

Oh, and that's basically a modern day for the galaxy tank/IFV design, so we've come back to our starting position again.


Weapon diversification is for the first time in a very long while no longer about the caliber and length of your guns alone.
 
If we want a 1 hit kill for enemy armour we'd be better off with a laser system precisely because there's Arc Reactor powered kinetic barriers in play. Lasers look at kinetic barriers and note that it's doing nothing to light...

Seriously, for the first time since the galaxy discovered the mass effect there's going to be a dual threat on the battlefield; the MAC that requires strong shields to protect against but has massive recoil, and the laser, which ignores shields but can be defended against with the proper ablative armour.

You want a (modern day for the galaxy) tank killer? Grab a laser system, put it on a high mobility platform with strong shields and good heat management systems and see it slaughter the enemy.

You want to kill that? Grab a laser system and put it on a fast tracking turret backed by thick slabs of armour.

You want to kill that? Grab a MAC, slap on some thick armour and see it blow it to bits on a single hit.

You want to kill that? Grab a MAC, some high power shields and enough mass not to roll over when shooting while scooting.

Oh, and that's basically a modern day for the galaxy tank/IFV design, so we've come back to our starting position again.


Weapon diversification is for the first time in a very long while no longer about the caliber and length of your guns alone.
Basically a MAC + Infinite Repeaters?
 
See. I like this discussion!
I have no idea of what diameter or length are for a proper weapon. Now with this discussion I understand more!
That is the magic of this thread! :)

So reasonable gun has around 100mm diameter and should be between 7 and 10 meters long for stability and proper accelration (Because it is a MAC).
Now that we have the gun we can think about the vehicle to mount it on because taking the chassi of the Tiger and mounting a different weapon on obviously failed.

Given the length of the barrel the MBT would be between 10 and 15 meter long and 4 to 6 meter wide.

Is that correct?
 
Ideally, the gun should have a barrel length somewhere between 30-60 calibers or more depending on if you want a howitzer, field piece, or HV gun.
 
Basically a MAC + Infinite Repeaters?

Depends on what you mean with Infinite Repeaters.


That said, in places that are prone to particularly thick fog or with naturally very thick atmospheres it might be better to go for an all MAC weapon system, but in the latter case the extra benefit is limited. Atmospheres may scatter lasers, but they also drag down on accelerators.
 
Depends on what you mean with Infinite Repeaters.
Sorry, I'm using Bolo terminology.

Infinite repeaters are secondary battery armaments that fire quickly and have an extremely large magazine capacity or are able to put out continuous fire "infinitely" hence infinite repeater.

Technically infinite repeaters can be machine guns too, but it usually refers to lasers, ion cannons or hellbores as most machine guns tend to show poor penetration against armor and thus are usually relegated to the tertiary battery with anti personnel weaponry.
 
Last edited:
Ideally, the gun should have a barrel length somewhere between 30-60 calibers or more depending on if you want a howitzer, field piece, or HV gun.
Caliber is connected to diameter.
Wiki Calibrer said:
In guns, particularly firearms, caliber or calibre is the approximate internal diameter of the barrel, or the diameter of the projectile it fires, in hundredths or sometimes thousandths of an inch. For example, a 45 caliber firearm has a barrel diameter of .45 of an inch. Barrel diameters can also be expressed using metric dimensions, as in "9mm pistol." When the barrel diameter is given in inches, the abbreviation "cal" (for "caliber") can be used. For example, a small-bore rifle with a diameter of 0.22 inches can be referred to as 22 cal or spoken: "twenty-two caliber" or a "two-two caliber rifle."

In a rifled barrel, the distance is measured between opposing lands or grooves; groove measurements are common in cartridge designations originating in the United States, while land measurements are more common elsewhere. Good performance requires a bullet to closely match the groove diameter of a barrel to ensure a good seal.

While modern cartridges and cartridge firearms are generally referred to by the cartridge name, they are still lumped together based on bore diameter. For example, a firearm might be described as a "30 caliber rifle", which could be any of a wide range of cartridges using a roughly .30-in projectile; or a "22 rimfire", referring to any rimfire cartridge using a 22-cal projectile.

Firearm calibers outside the range of 17 to 50 (4.5 to 12.7 mm) exist, but are rarely encountered. Wildcat cartridges, for example, can be found in 10, 12, and 14 cal (2.5, 3.0, and 3.6 mm), typically used for short-range varmint hunting, where the high-velocity, lightweight bullets provide devastating terminal ballistics with little risk of ricochet. Larger calibers, such as .577, .585, .600, .700, and .729 (14.7, 14.9, 15.2, 17.8, & 18.5 mm) are generally found in proprietary cartridges chambered in express rifles or similar guns intended for use on dangerous game.[1] The .950 JDJ is the only known cartridge beyond 79 caliber used in a rifle.

In some contexts, e.g. guns aboard a warship, "caliber" is used to describe the barrel length as multiples of the bore diameter. A "5-inch 50 calibre" gun has a bore diameter of 5 in (12.7 cm) and a barrel length of 50 times 5 in = 250 in (6.35 m).
The last paragraph is interesting for length as it describes the length in comparisonto the caliber.
Can we please use mm or inch from now on as caliber is literally [caliber/100=inch].
 
Caliber is connected to diameter.

The last paragraph is interesting for length as it describes the length in comparisonto the caliber.
Can we please use mm or inch from now on as caliber is literally [caliber/100=inch].
Umm . . . I do mean length.

Bore diameter times caliber equals barrel length.
 
Depends on what you mean with Infinite Repeaters.


That said, in places that are prone to particularly thick fog or with naturally very thick atmospheres it might be better to go for an all MAC weapon system, but in the latter case the extra benefit is limited. Atmospheres may scatter lasers, but they also drag down on accelerators.
Atmospheric scattering is high for UV/Vis frequency ranges and above, but fairly minimal for IR if you're smart about your frequency selection. This is the main reason to get variable wavelength laser tech, so our laser frigates can switch between high frequency anti-starship beams and lower frequency ground bombardment beams.
 
Last edited:
Bore diameter times caliber equals barrel length.
No?
The 'Schmeisser AR15 Carbine 9mm Para' has a barrel length of 16.75 inch. It is a rifle.
Most 9mm pistols, like Walter PPQ Classic, have a length of 4 inch.
Bore diameter and caliber is one and the same. Just written differently.
A bore of 1 inch is an 100 caliber gun. It says nothing about the length of the gun. Only naval weapon have a tradition of a barrel length that can be derived from its caliber.
 
No?
The 'Schmeisser AR15 Carbine 9mm Para' has a barrel length of 16.75 inch. It is a rifle.
Most 9mm pistols, like Walter PPQ Classic, have a length of 4 inch.
Bore diameter and caliber is one and the same. Just written differently.
A bore of 1 inch is an 100 caliber gun. It says nothing about the length of the gun. Only naval weapon have a tradition of a barrel length that can be derived from its caliber.
What? I'm talking about cannons, not handguns. The 350mm 60 caliber gun I keep trying to get everyone to agree to is 350mm times 60 to get 21 meters.

What did you think I meant? 60 caliber gun with 350mm barrel? That's not a cannon, that's an HMG.
 
Back
Top