Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

Well, to be fair the other reason we're building it is that our from-the-ground-up frigate will be the fastest thing in the galaxy that isn't one of our own Gladius-B or Gladius-Cs.
I always feel like I am trying to get people to do the delayed gratification thing with stories. If you eat your vegetables (terrible shameful failure!) now then you can have ice cream later! (sweet glorious success). You can imagine how well that goes over. ;)
 
Like this one. That was put together manually?
Ah, right, the tabbed format. I'd love to do something like that. Unfortunately, the syntax for tabs is forum-specific (you have to buy a specific XenForo plugin to get the format that's used on SV), which means I can't generate generic output that will always work on different sites (even three closely-related sites like SV/SB/QQ). Same reason that I still use dashes to break up task sections, instead of a hard rule <hr> tag.

Hmm. An idea does come to mind, though, that might work. I'll have to see if it will be feasible.
 
Why shouldn't it? Typically protagonists in stories are reactive so having an adventure dropped in their lap is what happens.

I'm not saying it won't give yo adventure. But in sense that's what the choice in how to use your personal actions represents stay home or go adventure. It's a big galaxy.

Given the gaps in the output, it looks likely that you deleted this stuff manually. Remember that you can delete votes in the Manage Votes window (select the same vote in both lists, then hit the Delete button).

Right... good to know. I can't delete vote that are parts of blocks though... thus manual work.

@Nix, @Aeondrac, @HanEmpire are probably fine, but @Hoyr mentioned he preferred a that sub-votes have a cost listing:

I don't need them too, but it be nice for the people vote don't you think?

Hey, would it be possible to make an AK-47 with an omnitool? Just wondering.

Yes. Assuming you had the materials. Might be able to make a crappy one given only time and omni-gel.

I could think of all sorts of cool things Revy could be doing but I am sure that the minute I start talk about them someone will get scared and attack me. :(

We if some one is an asshole then there's these nice people called mods. That said justifed objections are a thing.

Let's see here. We could catch a ride on a passing military vessel, we could hire some mercenary ships, we could hide our flight plan so it would be harder to ambush us. We could join a trade convoy and use safety in numbers. There are plenty of things we could do to make a fairly safe space journey.

I've mentioned at least one of those before... oh well.
 
Still have to speak in favor of flawless blackboxing before we start with the laser upgrades.

@Hoyr, if we finish both flawless blackboxing and something else at the same time, will the other tech have flawless black boxing?
 
@Hoyr, if we finish both flawless blackboxing and something else at the same time, will the other tech have flawless black boxing?

Black Boxing effects products not techs and is applied to all products made after the turn it's researched.

So yes if you finish BB and anothe tech the same turn any item made using that tech will have the benefits of blackboxing.
 
Erm, so you two want to build star fighters but not arm them? Because @UberJJK's plan doesn't allocate any production for missiles yet. Without those the Gladius is just a smaller, less-capable, less-powerful version of the Tiger, albeit with an FTL-quality core and costing 24-33 times the price.
Still have to speak in favor of flawless blackboxing before we start with the laser upgrades.
Since the only product I'm considering releasing until the Cabira will use industrial infrared lasers with a focal length of a few hundred meters max, I don't see the problem.

Try to keep in mind, the key tech for lasers isn't gigawatt lasers; it's miniaturized energy weapons plus variable wavelength lasers (possibly plus high-gigawatt lasers, depending on how @Hoyr alters that part of the tech tree). It's the combination of those two that make the Cabira so deadly; without them all you get is a frigate main gun that has a tiny fraction of the effective range of a normal frigate.

I've mentioned at least one of those before... oh well.
Yeah, and if there was an emergency we could use one of those. I actually like @UberJJK's idea of just running off a quartet of Gladius-Cs if we really need to get anywhere in a hurry; short of a multi-core eezo drive-equipped starship that's going to be the fastest possible way to get anywhere. Turns out we didn't have to because nothing was pressing enough to stir us from Mindoir in the past 9 months; all we need to do is get to the end of 2174-Q2 and we'll have our Mark I Space Yacht and, incidentally, a Captain Joker to drive it. :D
 
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Turns out we didn't have to.

It's kinda hard to make you do anything. I mean I could GM override make you do something, but if you guys want to stay at home... the only thing I can do is blow it up.

Need to be some where? Hire some one to be there or use tele-presence. Stuff happening? Send people/scientists/agents/soldiers.
 
Four times as many people in the most effective infantry suit ever? A person in a suit can fight on part with about ten times their number of enemies in pirate gear all else equal.

Okay, I'll try to summarize my point: I have no problem with the resulting quest - it is very nice to read, it's just I feel that players kinda loose on the struggle of voting. Maybe, it's just difficult for me to care about "term #362 which will determine final battle against reapers". Currently SA isn't fighting anyone, so it's difficult to care weather they will get those supertorpedoes this turn or another turn. Maybe it will be important later, but not now. And those 50 pirates are not helping: how many pirates should we fight? Something like "you will help the abolitionists greatly if you clear 3 pirate bases with 200 garrison each" would have been nice. The benchmarks like "win the armor contest" are somewhat far between. We kind of lack pressing short-term deadlines which will make us struggle and juggle our resources.

Let me give you a metaphor: it's kind of like a strait racing track with a jump over a big chasm at the end, so you need to get enough speed. And all those random events are not interesting turns, but more like a man at the back seat hitting us with a rubber hammer. They come completely out of the blue, so they don't feel like things you should overcome, but like things which make you grind your teeth and endure.

I hope I made myself clear: I like the to read the quest like it is now, but I fell it would be more interesting to participate in if some things were different.

[X] TheEyes
 
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It's kinda hard to make you do anything. I mean I could GM override make you do something, but if you guys want to stay at home... the only thing I can do is blow it up.

Need to be some where? Hire some one to be there or use tele-presence. Stuff happening? Send people/scientists/agents/soldiers.
Oh dear. See, I know the exact kind of stick necessary to force us to leave Mindoir that doesn't involve blowing up the planet, but I kind of don't want to bring it up for fear that you might actually do it...

Oh, hell, may as well say it. Best way to get us off planet? An Alliance Parliament/Citadel Council Subcommittee sends us a subpoena for something, maybe related to the attack, maybe regarding production quotas for our Arc Reactor patent(s), etc. We don't actually know how powerful those different groups' subpoena powers are--I rather doubt that they're as powerful as the US Congress/Senate, who can basically send subpoenas for whatever they want, as long as it has a legislative purpose somehow, and you can't even challenge it unless you're part of the Executive Branch--but we could be simply required to be somewhere for a few days, in-person, or else be arrested and then be required to show up in-person.

In fact, judges can do this as well. It doesn't happen as much these days thanks to the magic of cell phones, but a few of my coworkers, working in the crime lab back in the 80s and 90s have gotten pulled over by a cop, loaded into the back of the patrol car, and driven into court on a vacation day because the court left him a "Be in court" subpoena at work, which he never got because he was on vacation, and the court day rolled around with him not there to testify.
 
:facepalm:

I'll admit I am a little annoyed that my plan is getting skipped over without comment, but what really bothers me is how so many people are content to vote for a plan that builds five dozen completely unarmed starfighters, and then don't bother to explain why they're content to spend 13 billion credits on glorified skeet.
 
:facepalm:

I'll admit I am a little annoyed that my plan is getting skipped over without comment, but what really bothers me is how so many people are content to vote for a plan that builds five dozen completely unarmed starfighters, and then don't bother to explain why they're content to spend 13 billion credits on glorified skeet.
Simply put, I don't want to research gigawatt lasers before finishing blackboxing, even though we would only have the infra-red industrial ones you mentioned produced.

If you change that, I'll happily switch to your plan, (unless uberjjk updates his before then, but hey!)
 
I guess this gets back to one of my biggest pet peeves with the whole quest concept. The protagonist needs fail more. They can do all the right and smart things but it shouldn't be enough. The enemy should just be able to do things that the protagonist couldn't predict and pull out a win. Fail is necessary to create the emotional payoff for when we finally win. So we should fail often and spectacularly. Nothing that permanently ruins Revy or the company, of course, but some tough temporary setbacks and painful loses are certainly needed.
Why? I mean, both failure and success have to be logical and justified and make sense. Failing because we have to fail is no better, at all (actually, is worse) than succeeding by author flat.
The way I see it is you want our enemies to hit us with a huge game changing problem at the start of an narrative arc. Something that we have absolutely no answer for, then you want to slowly expand the scope and depth of this problem as we make progress on solving it. Then once we are on the cusp of solving one problem decisively hit us with the next one. etc. Occasionally you will want to give us a break to catch our breath though, usually at the end of each major arc.
Eh, I disagree with this, streniously (one of the reasons I don't participate in or really read Gromweld's alchemical quest).

Really, problems exist. But a constant barrage of "oh shit, we are going to die" after "oh shit, WHY?!" gets tedious and depressing very fast. Personally, I'm not reading this for it to be depressing, for Revy to suffer, and suffer, and suffer.

First and foremost, the story should be logical and consistent. I mean yeah, PI is powerful already. It has enemies. Making the universe itself hate us... Doesn't really make sense.



Could someone direct me to the two completed plans? I have to admit to have mostly missed them for a variety of reasons. What is the current vote arrangement is?
 
Oh, guess then people can wait until UberJJK works that problem or we can do this.

[X] Plan TheEyes

[x] Research Plan UberJJK 2174-Q2
-[X] Superalloys [800] - 90d10+365 (98.69% chance of completion)
-[X] Flawless Blackboxing/FRM [761.2/3200] - 125d10+535 + (30d10+110)*15/100 (95.25% of 1971.2/3200)

Either way it doesn't matter to me. Not that you aren't good at planning @TheEyes , it's just that I'm on the "Do xenobiology research" camp specially since we got Mordin and plans to get that temporary research hero to work things for while.

Oh and since the voting has been quite a mess

[3] Heterosexual (Dating Brian has just proven the point)
[4] Still thinking about it
[2] Bisexual (Why not both?)
[5] Asexual (Tried dating, prefer science)
[1] Homosexual (Having dated a guy you can definitely say they're not for you)

Since UberJJK's vote had it different...seriously, the vote has been crazy this time around, no wonder we have some problems here.

Oh, I also noticed that little fighter armament problem after I posted, so kindly stop with the Picard emote's. Just because I didn't do the change in very second doesn't mean I'm hopping in bandwagon blindly.
 
Okay, I'll try to summarize my point: I have no problem with the resulting quest - it is very nice to read, it's just I feel that players kinda loose on the struggle of voting. Maybe, it's just difficult for me to care about "term #362 which will determine final battle against reapers". Currently SA isn't fighting anyone, so it's difficult to care weather they will get those supertorpedoes this turn or another turn. Maybe it will be important later, but not now. And those 50 pirates are not helping: how many pirates should we fight? Something like "you will help the abolitionists greatly if you clear 3 pirate bases with 200 garrison each" would have been nice. The benchmarks like "win the armor contest" are somewhat far between. We kind of lack pressing short-term deadlines which will make us struggle and juggle our resources.

I fully intend to introduce more sort term goals. Recall as noted that I've had control for thee turns. I've been planning something for either this or the next turn for ages (next turn is when it going to happen). It's just that I felt the need to offer just enough leeway to get things together before I set this off.

This part of the base setting is kinda boring, needs events.

That said I'll keep that in mind... You can also ask, well how many troops do we need to do (whatever) or some other question.

"GM how many troops should we send to Anhur?"

"Well your looking at armies around a couple million on both sides when the war kicks off. They'll have Standard (+0) to Military (+2) Gear for the most part. Most of the Commanders will only be (+2). Both sides have some frigates (~20 each) and there maybe a cruiser or two around. Five teams and vehicles (say 10 tigers, and a squadron of Gladi) would be a good elite force. More obviously would be better, to tip the war very heavily to one side... probably closer too 500 teams with suits and vehicles."

(Note the above is a quick and lazy estimation.)

I'm open to player goals too, we have a few floating around.

Oh, hell, may as well say it. Best way to get us off planet? An Alliance Parliament/Citadel Council Subcommittee sends us a subpoena for something, maybe related to the attack, maybe regarding production quotas for our Arc Reactor patent(s), etc. We don't actually know how powerful those different groups' subpoena powers are--I rather doubt that they're as powerful as the US Congress/Senate, who can basically send subpoenas for whatever they want, as long as it has a legislative purpose somehow, and you can't even challenge it unless you're part of the Executive Branch--but we could be simply required to be somewhere for a few days, in-person, or else be arrested and then be required to show up in-person.

See I'm not sure why that couldn't be done via teleconference unless it was top secret stuffs. Hell the council seems to have little issue with teleconferences.

That sad for some cases... its an option. I just have to think up something sane they need you for... like your AI license!
 
On another note: As much as I like @Nix's efforts, one problem that can crop up with splitting full plans into small chunks like this is that nobody is checking to see if the compiled plans are fiscally possible, and that it's actually fairly difficult to do so. Give me a little bit to write up a "Base Plan" implementation of my own, see if I can show what I'm talking about.

@Nix, @Aeondrac, @HanEmpire are probably fine, but @Hoyr mentioned he preferred a that sub-votes have a cost listing:

so that might be something to consider.
I added the costs in the post listing the options. I'm skeptical about including them in the mini-vote because that would make amendments and fixing arithmetic errors a real pain: Everyone would have to update their votes or they would have to be manually unified during counting. As long as the options are listed in one convenient place not listing them in every vote doesn't make assessing the costs of anyone's overall vote THAT much more difficult.
One question that came up for me while adding the costs was whether the 40m for Jedi Academy teaching personnel are supposed to be one time or per quarter.
Listing costs of 0 everywhere clutters things up, so it seems best to assume that if no costs are listed the option has no (easy to assess) cost of that kind.
 
Oh, I also noticed that little fighter armament problem after I posted, so kindly stop with the Picard emote's. Just because I didn't do the change in very second doesn't mean I'm hopping in bandwagon blindly.
My apologies, then. I admit I was a bit out of line there, but your one-line post came literally two posts after I bring up exactly why Uber's plan is, currently, incomplete and likely to cause problems, and just before @GulibleLeprecon does the same thing, so it read like you were deliberately trolling me.

Could someone direct me to the two completed plans? I have to admit to have mostly missed them for a variety of reasons. What is the current vote arrangement is?
There are (sort of) three, right now:
  • There is @UberJJK's plan, which as I mentioned above is flawed, first because it builds 60 unarmed starfighters that are of exactly no use whatsoever, and second because it was posted before the whole debate over using base votes and breaking things up to make them more readable (although everyone's voting for his plan anyway.)
  • There is my old plan, and my update to take advantage of @Kinematics's new "base vote" system by splitting the large vote up into thematic pieces (and the corresponding vote)
  • There is @Nix's digest of both @UberJJK's plan and my plan (and his vote). It doesn't actually use @Kinematics's base vote system, so going forward it might be hard to put together during a tally, but it's fairly complete.
All this to describe what are essentially two plans, which differ in exactly two places. Ugh; this whole debate over voting styles has been so freaking annoying that I barely have the energy left to actually debate the real, substantive issues.
 
I added the costs in the post listing the options. I'm skeptical about including them in the mini-vote because that would make amendments and fixing arithmetic errors a real pain: Everyone would have to update their votes or they would have to be manually unified during counting. As long as the options are listed in one convenient place not listing them in every vote doesn't make assessing the costs of anyone's overall vote THAT much more difficult.

Whatever works, I just suggested adding totals in a convenient place to make avoiding financially invalid plans easier.

Listing costs of 0 everywhere clutters things up, so it seems best to assume that if no costs are listed the option has no (easy to assess) cost of that kind.

Sure if the that's fine.
 
[X] TheEyes

I agree that Blackboxing can be delayed by a quarter. We already have advanced one, and gigawatt lasers are a useful technology. I am a bit worried about someone else developing TIR to counter them, but, hopefully, that won't happen fast enough to matter.
 
@Hoyr , since UberJJK's plan still got that sexuality vote in it, which can change other people's votes. Would imposing rule that, you can't add vote which has such different opinions in general plan now on be good idea?
 
@Hoyr , since UberJJK's plan still got that sexuality vote in it, which can change other people's votes. Would imposing rule that, you can't add vote which has such different opinions in general plan now on be good idea?

Due to the way I'm parsing it that shouldn't matter. And with the new plan subdividing technique we can avoid that in the future I hope.

But yeah plans are for big things.
 
I agree that Blackboxing can be delayed by a quarter. We already have advanced one, and gigawatt lasers are a useful technology. I am a bit worried about someone else developing TIR to counter them, but, hopefully, that won't happen fast enough to matter.
Well Blackboxing isn't going to complete this quarter regardless; we have 2438 RP to go and we only generate ~1800 per quarter. The soonest we can get that done is 2174-Q2, and we should do so because, in addition to letting us keep our unpatentable ideas safe, it ought to give us an even more substantial bonus against hacking attempts, which will be important now that we're getting further into drone warfare.

The big debate here is over getting gigawatt lasers now, versus saving those 400 RPs for next turn. Uber wants to save them on a gamble to get Advanced Xeno a quarter early, but we need another 3 omakes (or 2 if @Hoyr decides my Project Via Press Release counts, though I think it maybe a little short), or good bonuses on Mordin and the Litinana research heroes, and I really don't see Advanced Xeno as being all that beneficial for most Citadel races, certainly not this transcendent technology that will make the Salarian Councilor roll over on his fear of AIs enough to grant us a license.

I want gigawatt lasers as soon as possible to get a 6+ month headstart on my New Gold Rush strategy, which I hope to use to kick off a human exodus to the stars and a decade-long economic boom. I've gone over the three phases many, many times, but in a nutshell:
  1. Spend this quarter talking up the benefits of highly-mobile space stations in a box to asteroid mining companies, many of whom will be looking for things to do now that the bottom is dropping out of the He-3 market (stupid PI and their Arc Reactors!)
  2. 2174-Q2: Introduce new industrial-scale asteroid mining lasers. This combined with the mobility boost of Appia/Virgo should make previously marginal asteroid deposits highly lucrative, setting off a massive resource rush that should make humanity the main supplier of rare minerals (and eventually eezo) to basically everyone.
  3. 2174-Q3/Q4: Introduce Project Via to Earth, slowly breaking people out of being married to a specific spot of land because that's where all their stuff is. This should dovetail nicely with the sudden massive demand for off-world asteroid miners, with humanity easily being able to make the transition because they're already living in houses that can fold up and be brought with them wherever they go.
 
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:facepalm:

I'll admit I am a little annoyed that my plan is getting skipped over without comment, but what really bothers me is how so many people are content to vote for a plan that builds five dozen completely unarmed starfighters, and then don't bother to explain why they're content to spend 13 billion credits on glorified skeet.
I am for it. :)

[X] TheEyes
 
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