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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

Mochinator said:
You're missing the point that the longer we can hold them back, the greater our advantage because it means there is a longer period before they come on par with us.

The time saved will add up.
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No, it won't. Because they aren't going to come to par with us - they have no way of going up the Arc Reactor tech tree, that is ours.

Seriously, just focus on our own advancement. Effort spent keeping them down is effort wasted.

Carrnage said:
I don't think Von Neumanning our population is a good idea, and large drone workforce/military is just asking for trouble.

they also surpass us currently in terms of general tech and industry, not just military.

Cerberus is probably actively working to preserve the status quo for now, Arc reactors are helping humanity only and giving them to mercs endangers that.

any advantage over the other species is a good thing, and we need to extend that advantage as much as possible.
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You know the best way to extend that advantage? Be realistic about the spread of technology, and work to improve our own.




This is all, of course, before the OOC planning where we want them to have Arc Reactors, and develop them as far as possible before the Reapers arrive.
 
Mochinator said:
You're missing the point that the longer we can hold them back, the greater our advantage because it means there is a longer period before they come on par with us.

The time saved will add up.
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What about this little thought. They get one of our reactors and figure out how to produce them and then patent it?
They can tell us to ceast and desist. they would have the ability to shut us down until we develop a new energy source.

Which admittedly, I think that might eventually be a good idea anyways...

Just a random thought, but if you are worried about the time thing, why are you doing my vote, which is to dump everything into the time control tech and get that ASAP.

Because screw them if they have our armor if time is our to command
 
Carrnage said:
Cerberus is probably actively working to preserve the status quo for now, Arc reactors are helping humanity only and giving them to mercs endangers that.
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... No. Cerberus is doing what Cerberus always does. Rushing blindly forward with no thought to the consequences. They'll be desperate to use this advantage before the evil aliens catch up. As they can get a knockoff running it'll be passed out to every merc they can point at an alien group.

My bet is it takes four destroyed labs (along with all of the staff) for a working model and they'll only get fifty percent efficiency. Four and fifty! Do I have any takers?
 
Your vote isn't viable Lunaryon. We need Advanced Fire Control before next turn, and should finish the blackboxing we started last turn too.

We can dump into time tech later, after Lab 3 is online and we have our other major tech (Miniaturized Laser, Peak Human, Advanced Neutal Interface - all 400, one turns worth of research.
 
Stroth said:
... No. Cerberus is doing what Cerberus always does. Rushing blindly forward with no thought to the consequences. They'll be desperate to use this advantage before the evil aliens catch up. As they can get a knockoff running it'll be passed out to every merc they can point at an alien group.

My bet is it takes four destroyed labs (along with all of the staff) for a working model and they'll only get fifty percent efficiency. Four and fifty! Do I have any takers?
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Yeah yeah. Jokes aside, that doesn't match Cerberus' MO. They will be trying to strengthen themselves first, arming random mercs just makes the Alliance look bad and has no real returns.
 
Van Ropen said:
Seriously, just focus on our own advancement. Effort spent keeping them down is effort wasted.
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we don't need to do anything to slow them down, but we don't need to help them either, humanity first.
Stroth said:
... No. Cerberus is doing what Cerberus always does. Rushing blindly forward with no thought to the consequences. They'll be desperate to use this advantage before the evil aliens catch up. As they can get a knockoff running it'll be passed out to every merc they can point at an alien group.
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No, that would be the STG who blindly unleash Tech, Cerberus isn't as good at the science itself but are much better at keeping it hush hush.
 
Carrnage said:
maybe not the tech itself, but first the krogans, then they were planning on uplifting and using the yahg.
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They desperately needed the Krogans to defeat the Rachni, and they put an immediate halt to uplifting the Yahg when they killed the first Citadel team that tried to open diplomatic relations.

That's about as far from doing things blindly as you can get.
 
Carrnage said:
maybe not the tech itself, but first the krogans, then they were planning on uplifting and using the yahg.
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...and? Morality aside, the Rachni would have destroyed them if they hadn't uplifted the Krogan.

The Reapers were destroying them when they made plans for the Yagh.


Immoral and cruel, but not ineffective.
 
UberJJK said:
@Yog ME has some sort of eezo enhanced superconducting cable already in it, I doubt we'll make anything much better w/o going up quite a few tiers of advanced materials.
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Superconductors lose their superconductivity if they are put in a too strong a magnetic field. This includes the field generated by current passing through them. The field generated by 40 TW of electricity is insane.

UberJJK said:
It's really not that much power comparatively speaking. 80TW only requires you to burn 386 grams of Helium-3 per second. Even an hour of continuous firing would only use 1390kg of the stuff. I'll admit I have no idea how big a reactor that would require but considering we're talking about a ship that's 888m long it almost certainly has the room.
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For fusion? No it doesn't. At all. You know ITER? Here's a paper(Freely available) for the fuel cycle of ITER. A total gas flow is 400 Pa*m^3/s. That is, in terms of mass 400/(k*T)*M, where k=1.38*10^-23, T=300 (gas is puffed in at roughly room temperatures), M=3*1.67*10^-27 - mass of one injected particle. The equation is derived from P*V=N*k*T=m/M*k*T

Thus, the total fuel injection rate in ITER is going to be about 0.16 grams per second (or, according to this source that is probably far more correct, not having done this on the back of their hand while having breakfast, 0.26 grams per second). Note that this is a complete speed of fuel injection, not the rate of the fuel burn. For that, you'll need to divide by at least two, likely more. So, to have a 386 grams burnt per second? Take ITER, upscale it at least 1000 times. Now, try to imagine that thing. It's HUGE.

That is why Arc reactors are so revolutionary. The power density in them is insane.
Esbilon said:
You're certainly allowed to make suggestions for an expanded tech tree. I'm not entirely sure how I will handle the actual expansion, so if you have suggestions as to what may branch off what, I would appreciate it.
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Well, for eezo synthesis, we'll need advanced materials (for both production chambers and theory), high energy and variable wavelength lasers, some high energy theory. For variable wavelength lasers, at least some mastery of eezo would be needed (see my comments on the problems).
 
1. The asari are cracking open their secret prothean beacon to look for a way to figure out our arc reactor technology, and the STG has a sample they're studying for the same purpose. They'll figure out how they work sooner or later, and when that happens it's only a matter of time before they're building their own. We can either patent it to make sure that any attempts at making knock-offs are illegal and we have a say in who gets their hands on them, or we don't patent it, so that either the asari or the salarians work it out and get the patent and can then sell them to whoever they want.
2. Humanity are members of the Citadel, we are a Citadel species. They are not the enemy and it is very unlikely that we will end up in open war with anyone save the batarians, who have already left the Citadel. Yes, it's a good thing to have the technological edge, but hoarding all kinds of super-advanced tech and building up our military looks both anti-social and suspicious as all hell, and will probably cause more problems than it solves. If you're so worried about keeping an edge, then just keep all new inventions Alliance-only for a year or two and then give it to the Citadel, and improve blackboxing once we make it to the serious game-changers like particle guns so they have to buy it straight from Paragon Industries.
3. Where is the evidence that the other races are "moving against us?" Are you talking about Benezia getting them to work on building their own arc reactors and the STG working on a sample? Because that's a.) not really any kind of hostile action, it's just ordinary politics, b.) seems to pretty much exactly what the "keep arc reactors Alliance-only" people would do in that situation, and c.) that's OOC knowledge right there. Oh sure, we know they're all trying to figure out how to make their own, but we haven't had commandos trying to assassinate us or STG hacking us, so they've done nothing that Revy Shepard would call "hostile," unless she still thinks Liara is a spy sent by her mom, which she's not and we don't.
4. In canon the laws regarding the allocations of resources and how much influence on that the Council has seems poorly defined. The Citadel were able to give the Alliance permission to colonize the Attican Traverse over the batarians and deny the quarians a planet in favor of the elcor on the grounds that its gravity suited them better, but it's also canon that both planets and the resources on them can be claimed on a "first come first serve" basis. One of the longest-running sidequests in ME1 was finding and claiming resources for the Alliance which is just a process of seeing it and basically slapping a beacon on it that says "MINE!", and Jacob Taylor's dad was on a merchant vessel whose specific job was to find planets and resources to claim them in the name of the Alliance. I'll need clarification before I can agree that we're in any kind of "struggle over resources" with with any Citadel race, especially since we've already got several colonies and the rights to colonize the Traverse.
 
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Humanity is actually colonizing too quickly - it's inability to adequately protect all it's new holdings is what allowed shit like Mindoir and (soon) Elysium in the first place. Running out of space we are not.
 
I suspect it's probably "the council said X about planet Y, so X happens" and "the council has not said anything about new planet Z, and so it belongs to whoever claims it first, to do with as they see fit withing council and/or species/polity law as applicable" plus "species/corporations/equivilants (or individual being under some circumstances) A and B have entered into a dispute over world/system/whatever C. The council decrees an outcome"
 
Derek58 said:
They desperately needed the Krogans to defeat the Rachni, and they put an immediate halt to uplifting the Yahg when they killed the first Citadel team that tried to open diplomatic relations.
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So this facility doesn't exist?
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Priority:_Sur'Kesh
Van Ropen said:
...and? Morality aside, the Rachni would have destroyed them if they hadn't uplifted the Krogan.

The Reapers were destroying them when they made plans for the Yagh.


Immoral and cruel, but not ineffective.
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the krogan can be overlooked as shortsighted but the Yahg facility was far too large to have started construction during the reaper war.
 
It's noted many times in canon that the salarians tend to be very short-sighed and are terrible at thinking about the long-term consequences of their actions; Mordin being a very notable exception, of course, but that's just how awesome he is. Which reminds me; what's he doing right now? I can't remember what the time-frame is for when he worked for the STG, made that genophage modification, quit the STG and then became a doctor in Omega.
 
Carrnage said:
the krogan can be overlooked as shortsighted but the Yahg facility was far too large to have started construction during the reaper war.
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Actually, that facility is logical. What is more reasonable and moral: to keep Yagh boxed in and trapped on their homeworld indefinitely, or to uplift them, carefully, in a way that would allow them to integrate into galactic society? They couldn't have been allowed to progress naturally, because their natural state would have resulted in war. They had to be uplifted.
 
Leingod said:
It's noted many times in canon that the salarians tend to be very short-sighed and are terrible at thinking about the long-term consequences of their actions; Mordin being a very notable exception, of course, but that's just how awesome he is. Which reminds me; what's he doing right now? I can't remember what the time-frame is for when he worked for the STG, made that genophage modification, quit the STG and then became a doctor in Omega.
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He's a salarian and loyal to the STG, we're not letting him into our facilities.
Yog said:
Actually, that facility is logical. What is more reasonable and moral: to keep Yagh boxed in and trapped on their homeworld indefinitely, or to uplift them, carefully, in a way that would allow them to integrate into galactic society? They couldn't have been allowed to progress naturally, because their natural state would have resulted in war. They had to be uplifted.
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Well that depends on whether it is cultural or instinctual, if it's instinctual it would be best to have the turians subjugate them.
Derek58 said:
Ah right, forgot about that. The Reapers had begun attacking all the Citadel Races, and had all ready overwhelmed the Batarians, so once again it's not blind, but a desperate action to delay the Reapers any way they can.
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they couldn't have finished that facility in the time since the war began.
 
Carrnage said:
He's a salarian and loyal to the STG, we're not letting him into our facilities.
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Depending on the timeline, no he isn't (loyal to the STG, that is. He's a salarian no matter how old he is). Besides, I'd let Mordin look at our tech long before I'd let Cerberus do it, which we've already done and in fact have basically handed them many, many samples of our work to study at their leisure.
 
Look, the do genetic research. That's a given. That facilitate existed before the Reaper War.

But uplifting Yagh was considered because of the war, arguing otherwise is dumb, especially in light of the Krogan.

...what is the point anyways? So what if they considered uplifting the Yagh? That is how they war - if we want to avoid a human genophage, work with the Council even as a competitor, not against them.
 
Carrnage said:
they couldn't have finished that facility in the time since the war began.
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Does it say specifically when the project was started? I'm fuzzy on minor stuff like this. And even if is was started before the Reapers attack in ME3, what proof do you have that they're acting blindly? I remember the Yahg being in a very secure cell.
 
Carrnage said:
Well that depends on whether it is cultural or instinctual, if it's instinctual it would be best to have the turians subjugate them.
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So... you'd prefer a perpetual state of slavery and subjugation to some social, and, possibly, genetic engineering? To me, it fails both on moral and on practical standpoints, as the amount of resources needed to keep Yagh perpetually subjugated... At this point, why even allow them into space? Destroy their space research facilities and military, repeat as needed. It's a drain on resources, yes, but it's better than keeping them subjugated in perpetuity.
 
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