Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

[Mochinator]

[X] Do not file. Yet. Keep your cards close, the human market is still big enough that you don't need to let anyone know exactly what you're doing.

[x] Have your own advanced implant installed (Prometheus).
-[X] Ask if Rahna would be willing to be hired as your tutor for you
-[X] Offer at cost replacements for all L2 Biotics. Have Rahna as a spokes person if she agrees.


This is the 2 i really care about. I rather keep the secret to our tech close to our chest because releasing the Arc Reactor to the other species pretty much guarantees a Arms Race that we have no guarantee we can win.

Remember, most of our designs take advantage of the additional power the Arc Reactor produces, selling it to others will allow them to develop designs that require more power because that is no a viable design.


Also, out of all the names for the implant, i definitely prefer Tempestas. However, i would like to suggest Prometheus instead because like how Prometheus stole Fire for humanity from the gods, our implant steals biotics from the gods (Asari + other biotics ) for Humanity (in the sense that being a biotic is now safer along with a boost to the base ability thus making it possible for biotics to become more integrated with other humans.)

 

[UberJJK]

Remember, most of our designs take advantage of the additional power the Arc Reactor produces, selling it to others will allow them to develop designs that require more power because that is no a viable design.

Click to shrink...

They require a mixture of Revy's genius and intense power. More importantly however we need to patent the Arc Reactor in the citadel before they finish cracking it. Something which they are, going by Auks comments before Esbilon became the GM, they are probably going to do this year.

If we patent it we can, at the very least, somewhat control the spread.

Admittedly, Revy has completely wrecked the human baseline for potential intelligence, so we could probably get away with quite a lot in that direction.

Click to shrink...

Turian Councilor: What do you mean it's natural! Humans should not be capable of running for three days without stop!

Look hard enough and you can find some pretty insane extremes for lots of things.

 

[Mochinator]

They require a mixture of Revy's genius and intense power. More importantly however we need to patent the Arc Reactor in the citadel before they finish cracking it. Something which they are, going by Auks comments before Esbilon became the GM, they are probably going to do this year.

If we patent it we can, at the very least, somewhat control the spread.



Turian Councilor: What do you mean it's natural! Humans should not be capable of running for three days without stop!

Look hard enough and you can find some pretty insane extremes for lots of things.

Click to shrink...

Then i rather we develop a flaw in that Arc Reactor, one that intentionally cuts the power generated to like 75% of ours. I do not like the idea of sharing the full benefits to our competitors.

We patent the flawed version while producing the full version, our FRM + Blackboxing should be enough to prevent them from cracking our Versions though that will depend on them realizing that the patented version emits lesser power, which i doubt will happen because nothing developed so far requires the full 100% of the Arc Reactor.

 

[Stroth]

Turian Councilor: What do you mean it's natural! Humans should not be capable of running for three days without stop!

Click to shrink...

Hyperspecialized endurance predators bitch! Only the Krogan can outlast humans.

Erm... with all due respect of course Councilor.

Look hard enough and you can find some pretty insane extremes for lots of things.

Click to shrink...

Seriously though, it's actually a plot point that other species can't. It's pointed out in Mass Effect 2 that the special trait of humans in mass effect is that we have an absolutely gigantic variation from baseline compared to the other races.

 

[Van Ropen]

Then i rather we develop a flaw in that Arc Reactor, one that intentionally cuts the power generated to like 75% of ours. I do not like the idea of sharing the full benefits to our competitors.

We patent the flawed version while producing the full version, our FRM + Blackboxing should be enough to prevent them from cracking our Versions though that will depend on them realizing that the patented version emits lesser power, which i doubt will happen because nothing developed so far requires the full 100% of the Arc Reactor.

Click to shrink...

That isn't how patenting works. Just because it can be sold doesn't mean we are forced to. It was going to be copied eventually anyways, nothing short of flawless blackboxing could prevent that - and we never would have gotten that without the money that the arc reactor earned us.

At the end of the day, the Arc Reactor will get out there. But by patenting (...and having a PMC able to operate in the Terminus) we can at least control the overt spread.

 

[Mochinator]

That isn't how patenting works. Just because it can be sold doesn't mean we are forced to. It was going to be copied eventually anyways, nothing short of flawless blackboxing could prevent that - and we never would have gotten that without the money that the arc reactor earned us.

At the end of the day, the Arc Reactor will get out there. But by patenting (...and having a PMC able to operate in the Terminus) we can at least control the overt spread.

Click to shrink...

No, you're missing the point.

By patenting it we're expressively forced to sell it. Remember, part of the reason we can lose a patent is if we cannot produce enough to meet demand, and not selling means we cannot meet demand.

The patent system basically says people will pay us if they use our Arc Reactor to do crap, which means they can cut us out and produce Arc Reactors for their own use based on what we filed in the patent. Yes, they may not be able to sell the reactors, but they can use their knock-offs to power their own products.

Cutting down the power that can be generated from the patent designs we submit will mean that any knock-offs that they come up with will always be a shade less powerful then ours.

It is foolish to enhance the capabilities of our competitors, who unlike us have facilities throughout the galaxy.

 

[Stroth]

That isn't how patenting works. Just because it can be sold doesn't mean we are forced to.

Click to shrink...

Actually we are. Citadel law says that if we're not meeting the demand for a vital technology then we can be forced to license its manufacture. Which is why I'm liking the suggestion that we just patent one vital part of the reactor to prove ownership if someone tries something and keep the rest blackboxed.

 

[Lagrange]

I'm on a phone, so I don't want to write a long post, but you guys seem to have a lot of misconceptions about how much info is in a parent vs what is needed to actually make something.

Keep in mind that the scientists in iron man 1 had far more info than a patent would have, but they couldn't get the small reactor to work.

For instance, let's assume there is a microchip that controls some aspects of the reactor. The patent would just need to say "control chip" with no info about what program the chip actually runs.

The specifics of citadel patents might be different, but no sensible businessman would want patents detailed enough to enable other parties to reproduce their stuff- otherwise the lawless areas would be churning out copycats as soon as the patent is filed.

TLDR: patents contain broad strokes but almost none if the fiddly details. Those details are the hard part.

 

[Leingod]

Whether we patent it or not, people are going to start getting their hands on the means to make it sooner or later (probably sooner). If we get a patent, we have some control over who gets them and actually make a profit on it.

 

[Mochinator]

I'm on a phone, so I don't want to write a long post, but you guys seem to have a lot of misconceptions about how much info is in a parent vs what is needed to actually make something.

Keep in mind that the scientists in iron man 1 had far more info than a patent would have, but they couldn't get the small reactor to work.

For instance, let's assume there is a microchip that controls some aspects of the reactor. The patent would just need to say "control chip" with no info about what program the chip actually runs.

The specifics of citadel patents might be different, but no sensible businessman would want patents detailed enough to enable other parties to reproduce their stuff- otherwise the lawless areas would be churning out copycats as soon as the patent is filed.

TLDR: patents contain broad strokes but almost none if the fiddly details. Those details are the hard part.

Click to shrink...

Missing the point.

[]Patent it in both Alliance and Citadel Space. By far the most lucrative option, this would gain you exclusive rights to Arc Reactor technology for the next 20 years, but it would also require you to license it; Citadel law prohibits "sitting" on patents, and if a Citadel appointed board believes a company is incapable or unwilling of meeting demand, they can force the company to license it's technology to a manufacturer who can. The tech would probably leak to the Terminus within a year or two, though they'll undoubtedly lag behind the Alliance and the Citadel in adoption for some time.

Click to shrink...

The fact that the tech can leak to somewhere else means that it is unlikely to be as general as you think it is, not to mention that by patenting it we will be at the mercy of everyone.

They can just demand 50 million Arc Reactors or something and we have to meet that contract.

Far better to limit the power of the patented one so that even if we lose the manufacturing rights to someone, the Arc Reactors we produced will still be better.

 

[UberJJK]

Seriously though, it's actually a plot point that other species can't. It's pointed out in Mass Effect 2 that the special trait of humans in mass effect is that we have an absolutely gigantic variation from baseline compared to the other races.

Click to shrink...

I actually meant in humans...

But that does remind me that humans with advanced genetic manipulation tech would really piss them off.

After all we have Einstein* level geniuses, people who can run for so long it's the lack of sleep that stops them, people who can lift over three hundred kilograms, and people who can run ten meters per second.

Just imagine how crazy all that would be in a single person and multiply that by every soldier in the Alliance military.

*Even genetic engineering couldn't reach Revy levels

 

[Van Ropen]

Missing the point.



The fact that the tech can leak to somewhere else means that it is unlikely to be as general as you think it is, not to mention that by patenting it we will be at the mercy of everyone.

They can just demand 50 million Arc Reactors or something and we have to meet that contract.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure Ebsilon clarified that to be hyperbole. He definitely confirmed that as we exist now - a proper company, with a team of lawyers which has shown tremendous growth - they aren't going to force us into anything. That was an issue when we were a nobody start-up.

The Citadel isn't evil - if their patent law wasn't fair that would just hurt them.

 

[Van Ropen]

I actually meant in humans...

But that does remind me that humans with advanced genetic manipulation tech would really piss them off.

After all we have Einstein* level geniuses, people who can run for so long it's the lack of sleep that stops them, people who can lift over three hundred kilograms, and people who can run ten meters per second.

Just imagine how crazy all that would be in a single person and multiply that by every soldier in the Alliance military.

*Even genetic engineering couldn't reach Revy levels

Click to shrink...

We have no reason to suspect that that sort of variation isn't the case with other races though.

Hell, the Asari are actually a Prothean science project who got upgraded in all sorts of ways.

They gonna be jelly of the tech though. My money is on Mordin getting a lot of work in the near future.

 

[UberJJK]

They can just demand 50 million Arc Reactors or something and we have to meet that contract.

Click to shrink...

Actually they can't. Esbilon made a ruling that as long as we are actually selling the reactors and show that we are willing to expand to meet demand then they can't.

The law is to prevent people from patenting ideas and then sitting on them not to steal provide large companies a tool to steal inventions from small businesses.

 

[Carrnage]

Well someone has to deal with the Yahg the salarians are planning to use as shock troops.

 

[aceraptor]

We are in a much better position than we would have been at the beginning if we had tried patenting. We *are* manufacturing them, we *are* selling them en masse. Plus, we've got a legal department. Even if we are forced to license we can squeeze out *alot* more. And even back then when we didn't have nearly as much leverage we would have gotten billions upon billions in licensing fees.

 

[Stroth]

We have no reason to suspect that that sort of variation isn't the case with other races though.

Click to shrink...

Yeah we do. Mordin says flat out that humans are the only race that does that.

 

[Mochinator]

Actually they can't. Esbilon made a ruling that as long as we are actually selling the reactors and show that we are willing to expand to meet demand then they can't.

The law is to prevent people from patenting ideas and then sitting on them not to steal provide large companies a tool to steal inventions from small businesses.

Click to shrink...

See, that's the thing.

Selling the Arc Reactors to them means they can use it to do thier own stuff, which will cut into our tech market.

That's what i do not want. I'm ok with patenting it if we can just patent it just for the legal protection against copyinh . I do not want to sell it to other big companies because not only will it cut into our market, it also pretty much allows the other races to have gear similar to humanity.

I do not like the idea of giving Arc Tech to the other races because it's pretty much what we can use to boost humanity's standing. This is unlike the medi-gel which was a finished product, with no way for the other races to use besides it's designed purposed.

This is a new energy source that they can use to leapfrog their tech at the expenses of humanities.

What's stopping the other races from creating their own power armor then ? The power requirements are met by our Arc reactors which means humanities Power Armor advantage will be gone. The quality of our power armor maybe better, but that means nothing if the enemy can drown them by sheer numbers.

 

[UberJJK]

Pretty sure Ebsilon clarified that to be hyperbole. He definitely confirmed that as we exist now - a proper company, with a team of lawyers which has shown tremendous growth - they aren't going to force us into anything. That was an issue when we were a nobody start-up.

The Citadel isn't evil - if their patent law wasn't fair that would just hurt them.

Click to shrink...

Actually they can't. Esbilon made a ruling that as long as we are actually selling the reactors and show that we are willing to expand to meet demand then they can't.

The law is to prevent people from patenting ideas and then sitting on them not to steal provide large companies a tool to steal inventions from small businesses.

Click to shrink...

And here is the quote:

True, but the two parts of the problem now are the vote is extremely entrenched also I think the misunderstanding partially comes from thinking the Military Secret's clause is likely to be extreme in the ME universe given the amount of damage should other species get hold of them.

Would you give us the requirements of the maintaining of Military Secrets by contractors?

Click to shrink...

The original patent rulings were

[]Patent it in both Alliance and Citadel Space. By far the most lucrative option, this would gain you exclusive rights to Arc Reactor technology for the next 20 years, but it would also require you to license it; Citadel law prohibits "sitting" on patents, and if a Citadel appointed board believes a company is incapable or unwilling of meeting demand, they can force the company to license it's technology to a manufacturer who can. The tech would probably leak to the Terminus within a year or two, though they'll undoubtedly lag behind the Alliance and the Citadel in adoption for some time.

[]Patent it in the Alliance. After careful review, you've found that it's possible to file "secret" patents under the Military secrets act of 2158; the patent itself would be classified, and a board of scientists and engineers with high level security clearances would review other patents against it to determine overlaps. You would be required to maintain a security team capable of securing your own facilities at all times. The tech will still likely proliferate eventually, but it may be a year or two before the better intelligence agencies figure it out, and longer for less advanced groups to replicate Arc Reactor technology. (requires hiring 2 or more Security Teams as well as installing Basic Security Measures and Perimeter Sensors.

Click to shrink...

I've softened up the former, to only cover unwillingness, if you're producing happily and expanding your facilities as it becomes feasible, the board will go easy on you. This is to a large extent because you have a legal team, and production already going strong. If you had gone this route from the get-go, things would have been different.

The alliance patent only specifies the facilities should be secure at all times, it does not say that you should take strong measures to stop your employees from breaking their NDA's. On that note, you should probably get some more security teams once your Factory 3 goes online, to make sure there are enough of them to cover the larger base 24/7 (or whatever the Mindoir equivalent is).

Click to shrink...

 

[Stroth]

See, that's the thing.

Selling the Arc Reactors to them means they can use it to do thier own stuff, which will cut into our tech market.

That's what i do not want. I'm ok with patenting it if we can just patent it just for the legal protection against copyinh . I do not want to sell it to other big companies because not only will it cut into our market, it also pretty much allows the other races to have gear similar to humanity.

I do not like the idea of giving Arc Tech to the other races because it's pretty much what we can use to boost humanity's standing. This is unlike the medi-gel which was a finished product, with no way for the other races to use besides it's designed purposed.

This is a new energy source that they can use to leapfrog their tech at the expenses of humanities.

What's stopping the other races from creating their own power armor then ? The power requirements are met by our Arc reactors which means humanities Power Armor advantage will be gone. The quality of our power armor maybe better, but that means nothing if the enemy can drown them by sheer numbers.

Click to shrink...

Man, fuck human supremacy. Reapers are comin.

And here is the quote:

Click to shrink...

That reminds me, we should be hiring more security teams. Better to get them on board, trained and kitted up now so they're ready for the new factory complex to come online.

 

[Leingod]

See, that's the thing.

Selling the Arc Reactors to them means they can use it to do thier own stuff, which will cut into our tech market.

That's what i do not want. I'm ok with patenting it if we can just patent it just for the legal protection against copyinh . I do not want to sell it to other big companies because not only will it cut into our market, it also pretty much allows the other races to have gear similar to humanity.

I do not like the idea of giving Arc Tech to the other races because it's pretty much what we can use to boost humanity's standing. This is unlike the medi-gel which was a finished product, with no way for the other races to use besides it's designed purposed.

This is a new energy source that they can use to leapfrog their tech at the expenses of humanities.

What's stopping the other races from creating their own power armor then ? The power requirements are met by our Arc reactors which means humanities Power Armor advantage will be gone. The quality of our power armor maybe better, but that means nothing if the enemy can drown them by sheer numbers.

Click to shrink...

Right. Because all the non-human races are "the enemy," have it out for humanity and will combine together to destroy us all the moment we give them arc reactors. Are you sure you're in the right thread? Because you seem to think you're in Warhammer or X-Com instead of Mass Effect.

 

[Mochinator]

Man, fuck human supremacy. Reapers are comin.

Click to shrink...

Which is a meta argument.

IC, looking to advance Humanity's cause shows species loyalty, because we're a human least you forget. Looking out for our own people over outsiders is a perfectly valid way of doing things.

So far in here, humanity is at the level of the Volus. If we want humanity to become a member of the big table, we have to leverage our advantage to allow humanity to improve, to be able to stand toe to toe against one of the big 3.

Releasing Arc Tech to the other species will just maintain the status quo with just us being richer, as a whole humanity would not advance as much because their key advantage is gone.

Right. Because all the non-human races are "the enemy," have it out for humanity and will combine together to destroy us all the moment we give them arc reactors. Are you sure you're in the right thread? Because you seem to think you're in Warhammer or X-Com instead of Mass Effect.

Click to shrink...

Really ? So you're denying that at this point in time Humanities position among the Citadal races is weak ?

That Humanity is not in a fight for resources ?

That Humanity is not at all subservient to the Big 3 ?

Where is your evidence that the points i listed are not true ? That if the other races produced Power Armor, humanity will still have the same amount of advantages they have when the races don't have power armor.

The Arc Reactor is something that allows to maintain a quality advantage that will not be as great if it's also available to the other species.

 

[Carrnage]

Right. Because all the non-human races are "the enemy," have it out for humanity and will combine together to destroy us all the moment we give them arc reactors. Are you sure you're in the right thread? Because you seem to think you're in Warhammer or X-Com instead of Mass Effect.

Click to shrink...

We know for a fact that the Asari are moving against us, Turians will not let anything threaten their military supremacy, and the salarians Are fucking morons when it comes to figuring out if something is a good idea and are terrifyingly good at the execution, Who's left? the elcor they have no power, Volus are obsessed with capitalism, Hanar are fanatics who while well meaning are big stupid jellyfishes.

Humanity is in a hostile universe we need every resource we can get to survive.

 

[Van Ropen]

Yeah we do. Mordin says flat out that humans are the only race that does that.

Click to shrink...

No? Unless you mean his mentioning the "variability" thing in general?

I know, and I notably flinched when he said that. Ugh.



New teams is probably a good idea. We have...five right now? Should we double that? Honestly, I think we have expanded enough to warrant it, and we can afford it.


Mochinator, the STG has a sample arc reactor that they are trying to reverse engineer, right now. They will eventually do so. The question is who gets the money once it is released across Citadel Space?

 

[Chargone]

It isn't. We need Advanced Fire Control VI, that's nonnegotiable. Since Gladius design A was chosen, we need to grab Advanced Blackboxing to keep Repulsors out of Cerberus hands.

That leaves a single project that won't be completed. At the moment, there is a split between Minitaurized Lasers (since a few hopes we could put some bonuses together and snag it for the context) or Peak Human (who...just want that I guess).

Click to shrink...

Between dice assignment, my own limitations, the Rest of the vote, trying to keep track of what everyone's said, and doing it all on a tablet, it really is.

I remember arguing early on, with some people who were getting pissed off with the lack of action bits, that the business side of this quest was really light. At the time it was, and the votes were quite manageable. This is no longer the case. (I've always found "assign dice to tasks" systems to be a complete pain in the arse, to be honest.)

While still certainly Interesting, as the complexity has gone up (now actually designing the vehicles? Contracts we actually need to keep track of? Spreadsheets?) The fun to be had, for me, from participating, has been going down.

So i vote on the bits i care about and can handle, and leave the rest up to those who find that sort of thing interesting.

(I was actually the one making the plans in one of these sorts of games over on spacebattles for a bit. Pretty much wrecked myself doing it. Admittedly that was partly due to a since identified back problem. But even without that it was too much hard work and stress to be enjoyable.)