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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)

do we have WoG on how much the various AI / Computer techs will boost research? If an 800 tech gives a +5 per 10d10 roll, it'd give less than 100 / quarter right now. It would probably take 2-3 years just to pay back the research points put into it.

I think we should figure out or priorities at some point, maybe come up with a tentative year long research plan.


What do you guys think about starting to focus on fundamental research (making components that only we can create, like reactors, DEWs, repulsors, neural interfaces, etc), and doing more licensing deals with other companies to make the full product (like our deal for the fighters).

The rest of the galaxy can figure out how to assemble our components into kickass machines well enough without us doing everything for them. The end product might not be as good as what we could make, but it'd still be better than anything else on the market.

Is there a spreadsheet with all the techs, their costs, and their prereqs floating around somewhere?
 
Lagrange said:
do we have WoG on how much the various AI / Computer techs will boost research? If an 800 tech gives a +5 per 10d10 roll, it'd give less than 100 / quarter right now. It would probably take 2-3 years just to pay back the research points put into it.

I think we should figure out or priorities at some point, maybe come up with a tentative year long research plan.


What do you guys think about starting to focus on fundamental research (making components that only we can create, like reactors, DEWs, repulsors, neural interfaces, etc), and doing more licensing deals with other companies to make the full product (like our deal for the fighters).

The rest of the galaxy can figure out how to assemble our components into kickass machines well enough without us doing everything for them. The end product might not be as good as what we could make, but it'd still be better than anything else on the market.

Is there a spreadsheet with all the techs, their costs, and their prereqs floating around somewhere?
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Yes. On page one, the Tech tree link. It doesn't have these newer ones yet, but it has everything else.

And selling the components is what we're doing right now with all excess production; Thats where a ton of our money is coming from.
 
Alanek2002 said:
Yes. On page one, the Tech tree link. It doesn't have these newer ones yet, but it has everything else.

And selling the components is what we're doing right now with all excess production; Thats where a ton of our money is coming from.
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I mean not even bothering to research how to make ships / vehicles - I'd like to focus on research only we can achieve, and building a ship given a bunch of kickass components is something any good ship company can do.
 
Alright then. Assuming we start building on Elysium immediately since the preparations were made with the last plan, then (assuming my math is right) over the next six quarters we will produce an average of 980, 1700, 2165, 2720, 2955, and 3350 research points as the factories come online - this is a total of 13870.

If we budget:

Advanced Neural Interface - 400
Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 400
Mk. II Suit - 300 (should be more than sufficient)
Re-entry Shroud - 150
Optical Computing - 800
Superalloys - 800
Flawless Blackboxing/FRM - 3200
Total Internal Reflection - 1600
Quantum Entanglement Communications - 1600
Improved Warhead - 150
Miniaturized Energy Weapons - 400
Repulsor Cannon - 800
Variable Wavelength Lasers - 1600
Gigawatt Lasers - 800
Multi-Core Eezo Drive - 800

That all costs 13800. Easily done, even accounting for the wasted overflow due to how we ensure techs finish, especially when you take into account any possible bonuses and the fact that optical computing and advanced neural interface increases the research VI bonus. We will probably be able to sneak another side project in there.



So one and half years from the next update, we can wield the Mk. II Suit in all it's glory and will have revolutionized the infantry weapons market with handheld directed energy weapons, taken laser weaponry to never before seen heights, gone even farther with energy weapons, reaped the many benefits superalloys give, and revolutionized communications technology. All alongside designing a ship that renders everything else utterly obsolete - improvements to weapons, armor, comms, the drive, stealth, everything. Plus a few game changers on their own: optical computing, QECs, and flawless blackboxing.

After that...well who knows. Plenty of paths to take.


@Lagrange - yeah, it might not pay itself in research immediately (though it will pretty quickly given the sheer number of dice), but it helps in other ways too...our security VIs for instance.
 
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NDxsKpeOQgyHIUDmhBbwKNL-wi75q1N9eLf_7QR95bo/pubhtml#
Tech tree (as a spreadsheet, with latest changes, sorted into rough categories)
I made a thing. no fancy graphics, but it should be easier to do math & planning for. PM me if you want edit access



interesting note: in total we need 88600 research points. With our current research speed and the projections Van Ropen just did above, even without buying any more research facilities after Elysium, that's about 7 years to finish the entire tree.


If we ignore the ground vehicles and ship research (and don't buy more research after Elysium), we can get everything else done in 4.5 years. At that time, we should be able to buy at least the basics of making ships and ground vehicles with our tech - the rest of the galaxy should have figured it out by then.
 
88600 + ???x2

the mass relays are almost definitely going to be in the 5 digits in research. But yes; We have a chance to survive the reapers through technical advantage, despite their massive amount of ships. And then the new tech options/research heroes come into play. ^.^

Another reason we're making our own ships though, is because we plan to start up a "PMC" And send it into the terminus. (Well, terminus isn't set in stone. But I want to kill slavers. If the rising tensions make the other races start to arm up, all the better.)

The fact that it gives us the best ships in the galaxy under our command when the reapers come is a massive bonus. Why should we pay others to make ships from our components?

The fact that the batarians get away with so much slaving is a horrible thing.
In my opinion, this is what should have happened in canon.
Either A:
Batarians: "Slavery is a part of our culture!"
Council: "Denied. Next!"
Or B:
Batarians: "Slavery/pirating is a part of our culture!"
Humans: "Well, what do you know. Killing slavers and pirates is a part of ours!"
 
Alanek2002 said:
88600 + ???x2

the mass relays are almost definitely going to be in the 5 digits in research. But yes; We have a chance to survive the reapers through technical advantage, despite their massive amount of ships. And then the new tech options/research heroes come into play. ^.^

Another reason we're making our own ships though, is because we plan to start up a "PMC" And send it into the terminus. (Well, terminus isn't set in stone. But I want to kill slavers. If the rising tensions make the other races start to arm up, all the better.)

The fact that it gives us the best ships in the galaxy under our command when the reapers come is a massive bonus. Why should we pay others to make ships from our components?

The fact that the batarians get away with so much slaving is a horrible thing.
In my opinion, this is what should have happened in canon.
Either A:
Batarians: "Slavery is a part of our culture!"
Council: "Denied. Next!"
Or B:
Batarians: "Slavery/pirating is a part of our culture!"
Humans: "Well, what do you know. Killing slavers and pirates is a part of ours!"
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I know we could make the best ships, but it seems like a waste to me to start building a lot of ships when they'll be obsolete in a year.

And yeah, I skipped the two ???'s for that number, but I also skipped any growth of our research beyond Elysium.

I don't think we should pay others to make ships with our shit. I think we should sell our shit to a bunch of major ship makers, and let them all compete and be creative in trying to find the best ways to use our stuff. same with ground vehicles. Then a few years later, when we've unlocked the full non-ship tech tree, we buy access to the research they done. Then we make a frigate that can solo a reaper :p

The whole PMC to go on a crusade against slavery and crime... We can do that without making our own custom ships. Most combat in that direction seems to happen more at the personal and vehicle level than at the ship level.

To mass effect slavery in general, I can totally understand political expediency meaning that Batarians enslaving Batarians remained legal. It completely boggles me that enslaving members of other races was at all legal.
 
Lagrange said:
I know we could make the best ships, but it seems like a waste to me to start building a lot of ships when they'll be obsolete in a year.

And yeah, I skipped the two ???'s for that number, but I also skipped any growth of our research beyond Elysium.

I don't think we should pay others to make ships with our shit. I think we should sell our shit to a bunch of major ship makers, and let them all compete and be creative in trying to find the best ways to use our stuff. same with ground vehicles. Then a few years later, when we've unlocked the full non-ship tech tree, we buy access to the research they done. Then we make a frigate that can solo a reaper :p

The whole PMC to go on a crusade against slavery and crime... We can do that without making our own custom ships. Most combat in that direction seems to happen more at the personal and vehicle level than at the ship level.

To mass effect slavery in general, I can totally understand political expediency meaning that Batarians enslaving Batarians remained legal. It completely boggles me that enslaving members of other races was at all legal.
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Will they be obsolete? The frigates built with everything on that list should remain relevant - and even if they are replaced before the Reaper War, will have proven extremely useful in the interm. We need a decent force just for corporate security after all, might as well make those inhouse.


Also, the slavery thing is being overstated I think - the slavers themselves were Terminus, not Hegemony. Even after they left the Citadel, they didn't dare directly antagonize the citadel races directly, and mostly reaped out in the Terminus with the occasional retard trying citadel space and dying for it.

Remember - I'm pretty sure the single largest population among the slave caste was still Batarians themselves...and there is probably plenty of non-Hegemony slavery out in the Terminus.

Shit, didn't Spectre Vasir break up a slaving ring on a Salarian world?
 
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So, We average 4845 points before our first frigate is started, according to your numbers.
We need super alloys before then, but what else is important?

In order:
  1. Advanced ME theory (400) (Prerequisite for others)
  2. Optical Computing (800) (Research boost, And it would hideously expensive to replace all the electronics in our ships with this. We'd be able to keep the hull and have to redo everything else.)
  3. Super alloys (800) (Of course)
  4. Finish the MK II
  5. multi-core Eezo Drive (800) (Also extremely expensive to add in later, likely.)
  6. Miniaturized Energy weapons (400)
  7. Repulsor cannons (800)


Any objections towards these being the first?
 
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I would have liked Ultra Compact core design first as well...
But it is probably too expensive at 1600 points.
 
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Alanek2002 said:
So, We average 4845 points before our first frigate is started, according to your numbers.
We need super alloys before then, but what else is important?

In order:
  1. Advanced ME theory (400) (Prerequisite for others)
  2. Optical Computing (800) (Research boost, And it would hideously expensive to replace all the electronics in our ships with this. We'd be able to keep the hull and have to redo everything else.)
  3. Super alloys (800) (Of course)
  4. 2845 left
  5. multi-core Eezo Drive (800) (Also extremely expensive to add in later, likely.)
  6. Miniaturized Energy weapons (400)
  7. Repulsor cannons (800)
  8. Gigawatt Lasers (800)
45 leftover

Any objections towards these being the first?
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Why both repulsor cannons and lasers? I though repulsor cannons had horrible range for ships.

I think we should be specializing and trying to finish some tech trees before others. Ship and vehicle trees are easy to delay until later, since the rest of the galaxy can still build them (and get dramatic improvement just by using our stuff).

There isn't really any other groups in the galaxy that can do the rest of the tech so anything we put off doesn't get worked on until we get to it.

All that bring said, I'm completely ok with your posted plan, I just don't want to research cruisers for a few years.
 
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And we can keep the lasers unused for a time. ^.^

The longer it takes for them to know we have effective laser weapons that don't require Knife range, the longer it'll take them to focus on countermeasures.
 
Alanek2002 said:
I think those were the ones sized for our Iron man suits, though. (Though the cheese that could be had if those tiny ones worked for the big ships... :p)
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Ah, ok, I thought more about really small (but still capital ship sized) drive cores.
...and yes, tiny cores working on the big ships...
Completely decentralized energy and drive infrastructure - there is no engineering to crit hit...
Nice...
 
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Swapping it for 8 should pose no problem; we would have be shaving it rather close to the average by trying for all 8.

Editing that list.
 
@Alanek - Meh, I tried to list them in order, though the multi-core could be earlier...before the work on weapons.


We can't put out frigates without superalloys, the laser improvements, internal reflection, the drive, and maybe QEC's if there is an interest. It would be nice if we could blackbox those too.

That requires most of that time, and if we are going that far we might as well wait a bit longer and fit all those improvements in. It delays construction by two-three quarters past the opening of our shipyard, but we can produce fighters in the interm. I think it's worth it.

That said, lemme try to actually do the math and check the numbers one more time.
 
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Van Ropen said:
@Alanek - Meh, I tried to list them in order, though the multi-core could be earlier...before the work on weapons.


We can't put out frigates without superalloys, the laser improvements, internal reflection, the drive, and maybe QEC's if there is an interest. It would be nice if we could blackbox those too.

That requires most of that time, and if we are going that far we might as well wait a bit longer and fit all those improvements in. It delays construction by two-three quarters past the opening of our shipyard, but we can produce fighters in the interm. I think it's worth it.

That said, lemme try to actually do the math and check the numbers one more time.
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Eh, you have a point... But we should build 2 frigates right away, even if they will become obsolete quickly, just for defense.
 
So, from the original list, this is the absolute basic stuff needed for the frigate:
Superalloys - 800
Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 400
Multi-core Eezo Drive - 800
Total Internal Reflection - 1600
Quantum Entanglement Communications - 1600
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At this point, we have reached 5200 points...which exceeds the three quarter budget of 4845. Our four quarter budget is 7565, which is another 2365 points to play with. If we are delayed, we should make the most of it - that lets us add:
Advanced Neural Interface - 400
Optical Computing - 800
Gigawatt Lasers - 800
Mk. II Suit - 300
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Now, we could start making the frigates at this point. But if we are already past the deadline, we might as well wait an additional quarter and include some earlier tech on the list, variable wavelength lasers in particular look appealing...not to mention, we do have other things going on, and some of this is tech we would like for the Mk. II or in general.
Re-entry Shroud - 150
Improved Warhead - 150
Miniaturized Energy Weapons - 400
Repulsor Cannon - 800
Variable Wavelength Lasers - 1600
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The total cost thus far is 10600 points, of the 10520 budgeted for five quarters. At this point, we could begin construction on frigates...which take two months to produce. But if we are working on all this awesome shit, we may as well blackbox it since that is possible in a single turn once we hit the sixth quarter.


In light of that, this is the order I propose for the tech:


1. Advanced Neural Interface - 400
2. Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 400
completed the first quarter​
3. Optical Computing - 800
4. Superalloys - 800
5. Mk. II Suit - 300
completed the second quarter​
6. Re-entry Shroud - 150
7. Improved Warhead - 150
completed the third quarter​
8. Flawless Blackboxing/FRM - 3200
completed the fourth quarter​
9. Multi-Core Eezo Drive - 800
10. Miniaturized Energy Weapons - 400
completed the fifth quarter​
11. Total Internal Reflection - 1600
12. Quantum Entanglement Communications - 1600
13. Variable Wavelength Lasers - 1600
14. Gigawatt Lasers - 800
15. Repulsor Cannon - 800
completed the sixth quarter​


This way, the stuff that gives bonuses is researched as early as possible, most of the truly awesome shit is acquired after flawless blackboxing, and we get new toys every quarter. The final frigate design isn't ready until three quarters after the first shipyard is complete, but it isn't wasted - we can produce fighters in the meanwhile. We can also probably add another side-project in there somewhere...an implant, the invisible man, the blackhole gun, mechs, whatever. There is some wiggle-room there, we will of course more carefully assign dice in light of the previous quarters and any earned bonuses.
 
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