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Semper Ad Meliora (Code Geass/Britannian Royalty Quest)

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honestly i am still wondering why exactly the mentalits were thriving on protestant britannia but got marginalized and hunted in catholic france and the rest of europe

afterall IRL it was most often mobs of uneducated (protestant) peasants that conducted the witch hunts while the catholic church usually declared the works of these 'witches' as miracles from god and their users as saints
 
Firebringer2077 said:
Keep in mind the reference to ALuin I is really small and implies that the British Isles were never conquered either under Julius or Claudius, hence an uninterrupted line of Emperors... that somehow stars the Tudors too... leading to 98th Emperor Charles. Personally, I think CG's writers forgot that there were multiple Roman Conquests, or more likely didn't think any deeper on the subject. To say nothing of the Viking Era... or Dark Ages... or English Civil War... or War of the Roses... or Norman Conquest

The point is that completely avoiding the Roman Conquest of the British Isles is nonsense.
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From what I read about it, it appears to me like an attempt by Ricardo von Brittania to gain some legitimacy since he was only Elizabeths III lover. So he revised history so that he is in fact descended from the first true ruler of Great Britain and not some noble that got the crown because he was fucking the late queen and got preferential treatment in her will.
Thanatosra said:
the only reasons I can think of for why rome wouldn't of conquered Britain is bigger threats and not worth it
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Even OTL Klaudius invasion was more motivated but the Emperor wanting some military merits since he was installed on the throne by the Praetorian Guard who killed the previous emperor Kalligula. So Great Britain was chosen since it was deemed the safest bet out of all the other options.
 
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Slayer Anderson said:
A Britannian invasion of Ireland would likely be welcomed with open arms by most of the working class and was dearly hoped for during the Great War, but coldly and cruelly, the Empire prefers the current state of affairs. Supporting Irish rebels is a great way to absorb Europa's attention.
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So what would happen if Irish rebels succeeded? I mean, obviously Britannia would prefer their support not lead to this, but revolution is always impossible until it happens, at which point it was always inevitable in hindsight. And Britannian blinders in specific seem likely to make them underestimate workers and nationalist movements. If there had been an Irish Revolution during the great war, would Britannia have left it to wither on the vine or would they (or perhaps some ambitious royal) have followed through after they couldn't stop it anymore?
 
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Psionic ‘Witches’
  • Informational
    • LuxEterna said:
    honestly i am still wondering why exactly the mentalits were thriving on protestant britannia but got marginalized and hunted in catholic france and the rest of europe

    afterall IRL it was most often mobs of uneducated (protestant) peasants that conducted the witch hunts while the catholic church usually declared the works of these 'witches' as miracles from god and their users as saints
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    Largely because of the whole 'peasant mobs' involved. Britannia's nobility/royalty thought that those were a danger to local administrators and shut them down pretty quick. The determination as to whether or not someone was a witch was to be made by a noble, not a bunch of commoners. Which, if the king has divine right and appoints a noble to handle trials like that… there's the strong argument that they do have jurisdiction by proxy from God.

    The Catholics did co-opt some 'pagan magicians' to names as saints, but that was usually a century or two after they died. Because the dead couldn't take part in Church politics. Usually those accused of witchcraft were executed and had their lands and property repossessed by the church and local nobility. It's why witch hunting was so profitable and persisted so long. Common people could be counted on to make initial accusations based on old family feuds, previous generations' relatives that were accused of being witches and killed, and even petty arguments like property disputes.

    In Britannia, a fad erupted when a noble took a psionic to court to do parlor tricks on a lark after bailing them out of witch charges (to blackmail the into doing this very trick, it wasn't altruism). It became something of a fashion trend to have psionic jesters/performers around and, as an indirect result, psionics we're granted more protections under the law. The reality is that nobles/royals tended to treat them as some combination of endangered species and trained animals, but it meant they weren't publicly executed so I guess a step up? Maybe?
    QTesseract said:
    So what would happen if Irish rebels succeeded? I mean, obviously Britannia would prefer their support not lead to this, but revolution is always impossible until it happens, at which point it was always inevitable in hindsight. And Britannian blinders in specific seem likely to make them underestimate workers and nationalist movements. If there had been an Irish Revolution during the great war, would Britannia have left it to wither on the vine or would they (or perhaps some ambitious royal) have followed through after they couldn't stop it anymore?
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    Depends heavily on the context and specifics of the situation involved, but…

    If it happened tomorrow and Ireland devolved into a massive civil war? Schneizel would council Charles to send in a 'peacekeeping' force to help armed the obviously-oppressed rebels and provide purely-defensive screening forces. Europa woul likely do the same to 'prevent civilian casualties' as well.

    The end result would either be a northern/southern Ireland divided between Britannian and European interests or a new Irish free state which exits the EU, but is neutral by treaty like Portugal.


    On a side note about witches, I'll link this video since I love weird historical stories like this. It was also partly my inspiration for how psionics became popular at Britannian court because of a random flight of fancy. History often turns on small things that no one realizes rapidly bloom into huge things.


    View: https://youtu.be/1wC2iHX2dX4
     
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  • Informational
    • Slayer Anderson said:
    The Catholics did co-opt some 'pagan magicians' to names as saints, but that was usually a century or two after they died. Because the dead couldn't take part in Church politics. Usually those accused of witchcraft were executed and had their lands and property repossessed by the church and local nobility. It's why witch hunting was so profitable and persisted so long. Common people could be counted on to make initial accusations based on old family feuds, previous generations' relatives that were accused of being witches and killed, and even petty arguments like property disputes.
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    must be a difference to RL history then because the catholic church usually came down with a lot of force on witchhunters being far more concerned with heretics than any kind of witches

    and afaik the church got little to nothing from the witchhunts which is why they were usually against it since it would mostly benefit the secular nobility thus making them comparatively less powerfull which was not in the interrests of the church
    and while yes there were catholic witch hunters going around they were generally viewed very sceptically and often denounced by their collegues
     
    LuxEterna said:
    must be a difference to RL history then because the catholic church usually came down with a lot of force on witchhunters being far more concerned with heretics than any kind of witches

    and afaik the church got little to nothing from the witchhunts which is why they were usually against it since it would mostly benefit the secular nobility thus making them comparatively less powerfull which was not in the interrests of the church
    and while yes there were catholic witch hunters going around they were generally viewed very sceptically and often denounced by their collegues
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    I'll say that there's a great deal of variance between time periods and regions based on how involved the Catholic Church was. As well as depending on if you're talking about the 'high church' or 'low church.' IE, cardinals and bishops or parish and community priests. From what I've read, the high church tended towards disapproval of witch trials outside of specific philosophers like Augustine and Aquinas. The Spanish Inquisition is also a notable exception given how many 'witches' they tortured and executed before being officially disbarred from pursuing witches unless it was related to heresy. (In practice, a lot of 'witches' had ties to heresy and still got Inquisitioned.)

    The low church, though, tended towards being supportive of with trials for a number of reasons. Such as being paid to officiate trials (per witch, sometimes) by nobles, acting out of fear of being accused themselves (ironic considering many practiced goetica, a form of demon summoning it was thought priests were allowed to do because god gave them power over Satan), and finally because it got their parishioners coming to church and donating more often to be seen as more pious. Of course, there were also true believers who cooperated out of a real and tangible fear of the devil corrupting men and women through witchcraft and that the trials were ultimately a social good.

    Like I said, though, the Catholic church's involvement and support varied incredibly over the nearly 1500 years of witch hunts/trials just in Europe. It's hard to give a concrete answer on a subject like this.
     
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    Honestly the IRL Catholic Church pretty much didn't believe witches actually existed, and came down hard on accusations of such.
    But like... they actually exist in this quest therefore the Church's stance would be different maybe even radically different such as here where they actually were Anti-witch.
     
    Ghostdevil said:
    Honestly the IRL Catholic Church pretty much didn't believe witches actually existed, and came down hard on accusations of such.
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    It really, *really* depends on who and when you're talking about with an institution as old and big as the Catholic Church.

    Edit: And to be very clear, this isn't me picking on the Catholics either. Protestants were often guilty of the same kinds of persecutions. In fact, King James (as mentioned in the previous lore post), extolled the virtues of witch trials and rewrote stricter laws for punishing witches after his ascension to the English throne.
     
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    Slayer Anderson said:
    In Britannia, a fad erupted when a noble took a psionic to court to do parlor tricks on a lark after bailing them out of witch charges (to blackmail the into doing this very trick, it wasn't altruism). It became something of a fashion trend to have psionic jesters/performers around and, as an indirect result, psionics we're granted more protections under the law. The reality is that nobles/royals tended to treat them as some combination of endangered species and trained animals, but it meant they weren't publicly executed so I guess a step up? Maybe?
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    There's some really dark humor in how many times Britannia is shown to accidentally be less evil than their OT equivalents and other 'benevolent' countries in universe.
     
    Wolfy098 said:
    There's some really dark humor in how many times Britannia is shown to accidentally be less evil than their OT equivalents and other 'benevolent' countries in universe.
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    Britannia could also be far morally superior to the U.S depending on how it dealt with the question of slavery I could easily see Britannia not allowing slavery to develop into a major institution as the dynamics of the Cotton trade would have been totally different in the absence of a strong U.S - British economic partnerships. The fleeing Nobles would also have far more reason to be concerned over the security vulnerabilities that come from keeping such a major percentage of the population in bondage.
     
    Ct613hulu said:
    Britannia could also be far morally superior to the U.S depending on how it dealt with the question of slavery I could easily see Britannia not allowing slavery to develop into a major institution as the dynamics of the Cotton trade would have been totally different in the absence of a strong U.S - British economic partnerships. The fleeing Nobles would also have far more reason to be concerned over the security vulnerabilities that come from keeping such a major percentage of the population in bondage.
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    in a cannon omake for the quest they ended it to if I recall get people to support them rather then Washington (this is just for quest but I have to assume its something like that cause I cant see britannia fighting a civil war to end something in cannon)
     
    Thanatosra said:
    in a cannon omake for the quest they ended it to if I recall get people to support them rather then Washington (this is just for quest but I have to assume its something like that cause I cant see britannia fighting a civil war to end something in cannon)
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    At the time I wrote that, the idea I went with is that the American Revolution happened pretty much as we know it happened until about 1778. There were two big changes: One, Benjamin Franklin wasn't Ambassador to France, Jefferson was. Two, The Leading Heir to the throne to the Emperor of Brittania (still in Britain) landed in Georgia and proceeded to do what the British should have done. Crown Princess Boudicca (regnal name Elizabeth II) was a strategic genius, charismatic, and for the 18th century just as enlightened as a monarch could get in Brittania.

    One of the hardest things about that piece was twisting the words "All men are created equal" into a pretzel. Code Geass under Charles zi had that big speech about how all men are NOT created equal so I wanted to give some historical basis to that. Benedict Arnold throwing back Jefferson's words about how his "nascent democratic experiment" was hardly equal seemed too good. Turning the unknown figure of Elizabeth II (as CG history only mentions a Liz I and Liz III, means there had to be a Liz II before Napoleon), into a savvy opportunist who freed slaves on the condition of them fighting for Brittania for their freedom. She simply wanted to raise soldiers in the South and march North, and nothing could be scarier for the southern colonies than a Crown Princess with an army of freed slaves marching north.

    Virginia, and the Carolinas panicked, and Boudicca marched north. War ended as soon as she caught the bulk of a tired and malnourished Continental Army. Boudicca was the protagonist of her age and kept criting dice rolls like Lelouch does. She negotiated the peace, made Franklin the Earl of Philadelphia with the potential of elevating him to Duke. Same with Arnold up in New York, he was made Marquis of West Point. Soon there after Crown Princess Boudicca became Empress Elizabeth II and her daughter would be Elizabeth III. Basically elevated a bunch of local nobles to be "rulers in her stead".

    I actually was working on an omake at one point about Empress Elizabeth II and how she pushed modernity too far which alienated the populace of the British Isles... especially as Elizabeth II ripped up London for railways and hellfire spewing factories. However I canned it cause it seemed too much of an infodump.
     
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    AlphaOmega said:
    From what I read about it, it appears to me like an attempt by Ricardo von Brittania to gain some legitimacy since he was only Elizabeths III lover. So he revised history so that he is in fact descended from the first true ruler of Great Britain and not some noble that got the crown because he was fucking the late queen and got preferential treatment in her will.
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    I believe I canonized something to that effect in an old info post back at the start of the quest, let's see...

    Yeah, here:
    "So, the World of CG makes a big deal about Charles being the 98th Emperor, which is pretty obviously bullshit unless they've had a different Emperor/Empress every two/three years. So why do they say this?
    Well, after Queen Elizabeth III (Elizabeth I had a son in this timeline) nominates her lover Ricardo von Britannia as her successor upon her death, Ricardo kind of... rewrites history a little bit for some extra glory. He basically amalgamated all of the various English dynasties into a single line of inheritance and numbered them, with Alwin I the Celtic Super-King of all tribes as the origin of the throne itself, which explains the new dating system as well."

    This, as I recall, was also the post where I made the unwelcome discovery that the EU uses the French Republican Calendar in canon, as per Akito the Exiled... which gives me one more reason to hate that show. Not that I needed it.
    Firebringer2077 said:
    One of the hardest things about that piece was twisting the words "All men are created equal" into a pretzel. Code Geass under Charles zi had that big speech about how all men are NOT created equal so I wanted to give some historical basis to that. Benedict Arnold throwing back Jefferson's words about how his "nascent democratic experiment" was hardly equal seemed too good.
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    There's actually a wink and a nod towards that omake idea you pitched me in the last sidestory post. Specifically...
    All eyes pointedly drifted towards a slim, dark-skinned man in a baggy suit with thick bottle-glasses.

    A few seconds after the room quieted other than the scratching of his his pen, he looked up and blinked owlishly. "Hmm?"

    Smilas scowled and grit his teeth. "The report Jefferson. About the mentalists. The one we need for the new policies. Do you have it?"

    "Ah..." The diminutive man shuffled a few papers before coming up with a moderately-sized ream of stapled documents. "Here we go! Yes, I completed it... last week? Something like that."

    Saturnino closed her eyes and breathed deeply to give her the strength of forbearance as Smilas grit his teeth against the urge to strangle the paper-pusher.

    Absalom Jefferson looked the document over for another long moment before nodding. "It should all be in here. The financial incentives for the mentalists to consent to sterilization... I indexed the payments to the number of children they've already had as well. No point in them having a litter if we're going to pay them not to have kids." He paused. "What else? I suggested altering the potential trial regulations based on the type of crime committed rather than the offender's status as a mentalist. That kind of thing always sets off the more tolerant politicos."
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    Saturnino, Hensen, and Umbraisis bit back grimaces at the question being asked which, for anyone else, would be rhetorical. But, no, there was a reason Jefferson was the actual secretary of the organization. Studious, book-smart, and a consummate intellectual, he had little to no understanding of politics or military operations. The man was a miracle-worker when it came to writing, formatting, and presenting a research paper or penning new laws, but couldn't connect with another human being outside of an academic setting. The apple truly had fallen far from his ancestor's tree.
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    Absalom Jefferson is an AU descendant of Thomas Jefferson in this world, through his relationship with Sally Hemmings. Having fled America to seek refuge in France after Washington's Rebellion failed, Jefferson eventually became an advisor to Napoleon in this world and was integral in the French Emperor's construction of a more lasting political schema for Europe which would eventually morph into the EU of today.

    If one is of a mind, they can consider the United States of the British Isles to be something of 'Jefferson's Revenge' for the failure of America. He was also instrumental in a more republican-leaning Confederation of the Rhine and a few other nation-building projects.

    EU historians usually remark that, "Washington's Failure was Napoleon's Success," as a direct reference to how important Jefferson was in moderating Napoleon's more extreme and reactionary moments.

    Britannian historians will usually reply, "Napoleon's Success was a Failure," pointing out that contrary to both Jefferson's and Napoleon's aims to remove the English/Britannian Empire as a threat, they created a prosperous authoritarian regime which today casts a long threatening shadow over Europa.
     
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    Oh! I just thought it was some guy who happened to be named Jefferson (I mean it is a common enough name). The perfidious tale of Thomas Jefferson, the slaveholder academic plantation owner who tried to inflict democracy on America but fled when he lost and partnered up with the fiendish Napoleon must have been adapted dozens of times over. ...By both Europans and Brittanians.
     
    Firebringer2077 said:
    At the time I wrote that, the idea I went with is that the American Revolution happened pretty much as we know it happened until about 1778. There were two big changes: One, Benjamin Franklin wasn't Ambassador to France, Jefferson was.
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    Isn't it canon in Code Geass that Benjamin Franklin was the Ambassador, that Britannia turned him before he could appeal to the King of France for aid, and that was why Washington lost?
     
    Blonddude42 said:
    Code Geass doesn't explain how or when Ben Franklin betrayed the revolution, so people tend to invent a reason. This quest has the best I've seen
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    I thought there was Extras talking about how CC gave Washington a Geass, and that he lost on purpose or something cuz he saw into the future a nuclear war during what I personally suspected to be the start of WWIII in an alternate-Geass timeline of the Cuban Missile Crisis? He basically convinced Franklin to betray the revolution or something. Makes no fucking sense, but OK.
     
    Slayer Anderson said:
    as per Akito the Exiled... which gives me one more reason to hate that show. Not that I needed it.
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    Can I ask what is wrong with it? Despite quite liking Code Geass I never could get myself to sit down and watch it and it's various side stories so I don't know what is wrong with Akito the Exiled. Aside from a Japanese man rising to such an important position in Britannia of all places and apparently having a strong loyalty of his subordinates despite the fact they should be hating his guts as an 'Eleven' in charge of an entire order of knights.
     
    AlphaOmega said:
    Can I ask what is wrong with it? Despite quite liking Code Geass I never could get myself to sit down and watch it and it's various side stories so I don't know what is wrong with Akito the Exiled. Aside from a Japanese man rising to such an important position in Britannia of all places and apparently having a strong loyalty of his subordinates despite the fact they should be hating his guts as an 'Eleven' in charge of an entire order of knights.
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    well shinn did save all the lives of the some (Ashley, ) as for his family yeah I have no idea why they adopted him but they weren't racist clearly and the knight of two who was in charge of the knights before Shinn also wasn't racist (like gino wasn't). I liked Shinn having a motive similar to seymour from ff10 if I recall correctly (but maybe thats just a headcannon to make his destroy the world make more sense but if I lived in the code geass world destroying it makes 100% sense as he got more unstable as the show went on). I like most of the chars, the only one I didn't like is the smiles and thats just because he just wanted europe to be turned into an empire and had a plan to turn one of his people into a matyr. I saw some saying the unrealisim, but yeah code geass proper is full of that. Also the fact that it somewhat changes how someone can gain geass. I don't really pay much attention to the hate it got cause I found it alright not perfect but an alright watch
     
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