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Does Hiyori awknowledge that A.is are people fluctlights have souls, and if she is not careful, she could easily become a genocidal mass murderer by potentially killing a world that is sentient, therefore real regardless if the inhabitanta are made up of programming code instead of atoms and molecules?
iirc, the AIs that the Seed generates are... incomplete, or just otherwise lacking the metaphysical weight to qualify as 'people' or 'human' to the collective subconscious. It's part of the explanation Hiyori was given for why HEAVENs are a problem. Now, something like the Alicization project might change that, but for the time being AIs are merely an extension of the Seed/HEAVEN. They aren't 'people' yet.
 
Well, seeing as our choice is already made...

Hello, my name is UnderdogEmiya, and today we start our tactical guide of "What BLANK Knows About Us?"

In short, here are some of my thoughts on what BLANK likely knows about our powers and to what extent. For starters...

How Much Material Do They Have?

This is important due to the amount of fights Hiyori ends up getting into. The more fights, the more material BLANK has about us to work with.

It's honestly hard to say at first what is the starting point for their analysis. I would say that the first few fights we got into were likely too small to spread any word about us. If we want when it's likely that rumors about us began, then I think the fight against the Jotunns early on with Sigurd is where people began to take note of our odd powers, as it was also around when we received the EDGE PUNISHER title. But I can guarantee that we entered the conscience of the people when we got into the Tournament with Yuuki, as we pulled out Excalibur, created Excalibur Viviane and was overall the first demonstration for a large crowd of what a Persona could do.

After that, most of our battles were in large scale with hundreds of eyes on us. Therefore, I say that it's around this time that BLANK got concrete info on us, from rumors or else.

Big Picture

BLANK plays with rules. And so far, with their understanding in Cognitive Psience, they probably understand the following with 100% certainty.

1 - Our power is to call upon Personas upon the world.
2 - For whatever reason, we may call upon more than one Persona at a time.
3 - Personas can change with time.

The first two rules are evident by how we fight most of the time. The third one became known after the Norn's fight, where Havfrue became Undine by absorbing the essence of a Norn, though I doubt they understand the exact mechanisms behind this.

I'm unsure if they understand the difference between normal skills and Enhance Armament/Release Recollection. Likely are aware of their existence, but not of their precise mechanisms. Also likely unaware of the existence of the Velvet Room. Probably could infer we have some sort of patreon depending on how they interpretate the events from the Ragnarok with Nephren-Ka appearing, but unlikely.

Weaknesses and resistances are hard to judge as we are not usually hit with super-effective damage, but not sure about that.

Archetypes are also iffy to tell if they know about it, but I'm inclined to think they do based on their understanding of Cognition and Personas as masks.

We never had to use all of our roster at once, so I say we are also safe on the sense that BLANK doesn't have complete awareness of how much we can carry in battle.

Most Used Personas

Now, we go for a specific analysis of our arsenal in a few words, spreading my feelings over the matter. This is what I think they know about us.

-Nephren-Ka - One appearance in total, power over fire and mysterious eye power. Likely some mind reading effect?
-Urvashi - A recurrent Persona, Charm Powers, electrical powers and anti-brainwash Recollection.
-Helena - Rarely seen till now, Light Powers, Healing. Enhance Armament never used.
-Blodeuwedd - New addition, some taunt ability. Other powers unknown.
-Alice - Only used once but pretty strong demonstration.
-Urmetazoan - Dunno how much they know about this one, could accidentally lump it together with Cats of Ulthar based on usage?
-Magdalene - Worse Helena? Light powers and healing, Hama unknown due to nature of use.
-Mithras Lithurgy - Buffer Persona. I don't think they can really get what it is about from a single usage?
-Ash Nazg - New Persona, ominous aura. Death Gun Persona. Could connect it with Sauron?
-Heliose - Two uses, manipulation of crystals and weird-colored saber.
-Ulthar - One usage in total. Cat creation, transfiguration?
-Magnum Opus - Never used.
-Undine - Our most used Persona, the one BLANK knows the most about. On the other hand, we could get a Cosmo Dragoon buff depending on how Pitohui reacts next.
-Don Juan - Never used.
-Urashima - Ice powers, fisherman theme. Good water mobility?
-Attila, Ys, Zatoichi, Archon - Never used.

We also could get the Priest Persona next week to give us one additional ace in the hole.

I expect BLANK to be highly flexible with their tactics, considering the loose nature of our Personas and how our roster may change from week to week. I expect them to have counters for Urvashi and Helena as some of our usual go-tos.

A few ideas of combos:

-Urashima could do some damage with Tamatebako as someone mentioned before. I feel it will be especially effective against Shiro due to her youth.
-Urmetazoan is a wild card that can turn things in our favor if used well.
-Ys and Zatoichi have useful tricks that may force the duo to rethink their options.
-I think we may have a great interaction with Helena and Don Juan: use Emanation of Heresiarch to make things go well for some time, then use Carpe Diem for guaranteed success on a physical check, triggering the stun effect.
-Ash Nazg...is pretty sus rn, but the One Ring could turn the tide of a fight in a pinch.
 
-Nephren-Ka - One appearance in total, power over fire and mysterious eye power. Likely some mind reading effect?

For Nephren-Ka we only brought the bossman at the end of Alfheim when the game was in the middle of crashing and even if they know about it getting insight into BLANK's psychological weakpoints will be useful anyways since their pasts are ciphers in canon other than being implied to be dark in some way.

-Mithras Lithurgy - Buffer Persona. I don't think they can really get what it is about from a single usage?

For Mithras we brought him out against Kyoji but that was when we were only a mark for them before we caught them with their pants down and made things personal. BLANK is invincible in their home series but we almost screwed the pooch by turning M into a 12D chessmaster he really wasn't in our heads so I think it's important to remember that ultimately, this is BLANK at their most maladjusted so they could have been farming a gacha or something while the Kyoji fight happened.

Even then Mithras didn't work how it was supposed to because it crossed wires with Kayaba or something so even if they did it will work differently now.


For Attilla while she probably won't be able to be used for the BLANK fight now that we can do write-ins we could use it to destroy a keypoint in the game like blowing up the building where the dev console is or blowing up XeXeeD's base to start something or weaken him. People will just see Kuro being weird again until the explosion and even then we could try and find an out of place position to fire from.
 
Now, we go for a specific analysis of our arsenal in a few words, spreading my feelings over the matter. This is what I think they know about us.

-Nephren-Ka - One appearance in total, power over fire and mysterious eye power. Likely some mind reading effect?
-Urvashi - A recurrent Persona, Charm Powers, electrical powers and anti-brainwash Recollection.
-Helena - Rarely seen till now, Light Powers, Healing. Enhance Armament never used.
-Blodeuwedd - New addition, some taunt ability. Other powers unknown.
-Alice - Only used once but pretty strong demonstration.
-Urmetazoan - Dunno how much they know about this one, could accidentally lump it together with Cats of Ulthar based on usage?
-Magdalene - Worse Helena? Light powers and healing, Hama unknown due to nature of use.
-Mithras Lithurgy - Buffer Persona. I don't think they can really get what it is about from a single usage?
-Ash Nazg - New Persona, ominous aura. Death Gun Persona. Could connect it with Sauron?
-Heliose - Two uses, manipulation of crystals and weird-colored saber.
-Ulthar - One usage in total. Cat creation, transfiguration?
-Magnum Opus - Never used.
-Undine - Our most used Persona, the one BLANK knows the most about. On the other hand, we could get a Cosmo Dragoon buff depending on how Pitohui reacts next.
-Don Juan - Never used.
-Urashima - Ice powers, fisherman theme. Good water mobility?
-Attila, Ys, Zatoichi, Archon - Never used.

In regards to this, I am absolutely certain BLANK knows nothing about what happened during the final fight against Oberon aside from the obvious end result. Also, pretty sure that BLANK knows about Cognitive Psience, but NOT Personas, going off of one of Hiyori's conversations with them. So far, they think we're just exploiting Incarnation or something like that.

So, I'm pretty sure they know absolutely NOTHING about Nephren-Ka, for starters. Even if they did know it even exists, it's a complete outside-context problem to them. And if their spies were able to spot the One Ring in the chaos of the fight against Pito, I'll eat my shoe.

Remember that GGO causes Personas to manifest differently than in ALO, which is part of why BLANK still thinks we're just exploiting some aspect of Cognitive Psience instead of coming to the conclusion that Persona are a thing.

And, in regards to the BLANK fight, remember that it's going to center around rules. No idea what that means yet, but I imagine it's going to center around restrictions of some kind. Naturally, if we can bend the rules or break them through use of our Persona, we should.

Nephren-Ka is a no-brainer. As is basically every other 'big gun' Persona in our roster (Alice Lidell, Archon, Don Juan, and Zatoichi for starters). I DO NOT want us to have to pick the least-worst option at a pivotal moment like what happened with the SOL beam because the winning loadout plan didn't include any of them. Like I've said before, I will die on this hill.

So, during the BLANK fight, we need to pick the rules that we can exploit with our Personas. And hope that breaking the rules doesn't incur serious consequences.
 
Hm. Can I suggest doing another Persona expansion next turn or after then? Having more space could give us more attack angles and is useful on the long run
 
As always there's the throw the chessboard away option with Ys.

PASSIVE:
Nascent SEED: This Persona possesses no stats or skills. When assigned to a Persona slot, it can be freely channeled at the cost of SP to alter the local environment at no extra time cost within a Scene and is always considered to be equipped.
Invoking this SWORD Persona costs [2 SP] per turn, inclusive of activation turn. Once deactivated it may not be reactivated for the remainder of the combat.

According to this we can use it even with other Persona being used. And if there's not enough water we could flood the area with Undine to set things up.

Also, could Undine unlock a new transformation for Urmetezoan like Blodeuwedd did? With it, we could regenerate SP while being able to swim in Ys indefinitely.

We could also hide Archon's Supply Lines under the sea as well.
 
Also, could Undine unlock a new transformation for Urmetezoan like Blodeuwedd did? With it, we could regenerate SP while being able to swim in Ys indefinitely.

That's not going to work. Ys drains 2 SP per scene it's used. Urmetazoan only regenerates 2 SP per scene. We'd be breaking even and stuck using Urmetazaon to prevent SP drain, and that goes out the window the minute we try something with literally any other Persona.
 
That's not going to work. Ys drains 2 SP per scene it's used. Urmetazoan only regenerates 2 SP per scene. We'd be breaking even and stuck using Urmetazaon to prevent SP drain, and that goes out the window the minute we try something with literally any other Persona.

Yes, we'd be breaking even...which means we could just flood the area forever while BLANK finds themselves dealing with a growing ocean we pulled out of nowhere while we're aquatic capable and they're not.
 
Yes, we'd be breaking even...which means we could just flood the area forever while BLANK finds themselves dealing with a growing ocean we pulled out of nowhere while we're aquatic capable and they're not.

Fair. I just think that we should have a plan B in case BLANK pulls something out of their ass to deal with that somehow.

Honestly, most of this is going to depend on how rules work during the fight itself.
 
Wait, can we have both Ys and Urmetazoan out at the same time? I always interpreted as Urmetazoan having new transformations unlocked by interacting with the Personas we have available at a given moment...though the Bludeweudd transformation did apply Witness Me automatically...but it probably pulled out from it's lore...

Ah, we'll know when we get there.
 
Wait, can we have both Ys and Urmetazoan out at the same time? I always interpreted as Urmetazoan having new transformations unlocked by interacting with the Personas we have available at a given moment...though the Bludeweudd transformation did apply Witness Me automatically...but it probably pulled out from it's lore...

Ah, we'll know when we get there.

Given that there is explicitly a gun for Urmetazoan, we can totally use it independently. We just haven't had a reason to yet.
 
Given that BLANK is an entity defined by rules, it has been my opinion for some time that we start thinking over how to manipulate the rules of engagement rather than expecting to be able to best them via skill checks.

I had been working on a plan that involved getting them to agree to something along the lines of "if we can get you to truly understand us with any cognitive psience, you surrender" then dropping the Third Eye to force it through literal magic. Something along the lines of the Reversi game from their home series, but I'm not sure it would quite work at this point.

I want to consult someone to get some idea or advice on how to manipulate the rules in our favor. Someone experienced in trying to manipulate enforceable rules and find loopholes in them to advance their own ends. Someone BLANK wouldn't be able to see us consult and has explicitly asked for us to reach out to them to talk...

[ ] Consult our Patron
- Attempt to Dreamwalk to Speak with ETTEILLA
 
You know what? Seeing some Gundam G clips, and seeing how much Gundam there is in the setting...

Fuck it, I will try to get us into a situation where we use a Erupting Burning Finger or a Shining Finger Sword to beat someone's ass. It's just the chuuni way.
 
I had been working on a plan that involved getting them to agree to something along the lines of "if we can get you to truly understand us with any cognitive psience, you surrender" then dropping the Third Eye to force it through literal magic. Something along the lines of the Reversi game from their home series, but I'm not sure it would quite work at this point.
A game based on not knowing things?
Turning their own genius into a liability?

Hmm.

If anything else we can try to enforce a rule that "All players must be alone" and exploit their separation anxiety.
 
Does Hiyori have a counter for Lughs assassin organization that betray him, they did murder innocent people and Cayna's family. They are technically outside context problems to each other, the organization can beat her in the real world while Hiyori can probably destroy the assassin organization like the phantom thieves and Goro Akechi did preferably without killing as that would be ooc
 
Does Hiyori have a counter for Lughs assassin organization that betray him, they did murder innocent people and Cayna's family. They are technically outside context problems to each other, the organization can beat her in the real world while Hiyori can probably destroy the assassin organization like the phantom thieves and Goro Akechi did preferably without killing as that would be ooc

So far...we don't have really much to deal with the Organization. I guess we would learn about it if we had gone deeper in the Laughing Coffin path, as Agent Hydra is supposed to be part of them, and we could learn things from Argo if we think it's worth the hassle.
 
So far...we don't have really much to deal with the Organization. I guess we would learn about it if we had gone deeper in the Laughing Coffin path, as Agent Hydra is supposed to be part of them, and we could learn things from Argo if we think it's worth the hassle.

They blew up a plane just to retire lugh, the world will be a better place without them, also Hiyori should totwlly go after Japn's evil worl culture , ainz and some others did snap in part due to them.
 
If anything else we can try to enforce a rule that "All players must be alone" and exploit their separation anxiety.
This is something I had considered and it's something Hiyori is explicitly aware of is a weakness of BLANK's so it would make sense to try. Unfortunately NGNL style 'Rules' would need to be agreed on by both parties, and getting them to agree to this one is basicly impossible. The difficult part here is figuring out rules that look neutral or advantagious to our oppnent while providing us an advantage.
 
Truth is...

The more complex the terms we pick, the more loopholes Shiro and Sora will have to exploit. And in simpler games, they'll have an edge simply because they're that good. If we pick something that seemingly benefits them, they'll prepare to safeguard that "advantage" against tricks we can pull off based on what they know about us.

Our best shot is that they, together, are invincible: therefore, we need to fracture BLANK. And I think this means we'll be forced to pull out Nephren-Ka for this fight. Either that or have Argo dig dirt on them.
 
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