No, SV, You Are the Forest! (Riot Quest)
- Thread starter Raising Kittens
- Start date
- Original
-
- Tags
- original riot quest forest trees
- Location
- some computer lab
or we can just grow the forest, thereby increasing the cap and not spending 10 successes + however many it takes to chop one down for no gain.
- Location
- Florida
My thoughts on that were that were growing trees fast and chaotically due to rioters, with the cap only going to increase afterwords and already having spots reserved for future trees to grow we could prune a little bit to reserve some critical trees to grow like the optical and hyper trees.
Its like overgrowth, their not bad by themselves and do help us incrementally grow. But its so easy to grow cheap trees now and someone inevitably will grow them, start adding them together and suddenly theres no space and well have to grow the forest again. And suddenly the cycle repeats with an increased cap.
Its like overgrowth, their not bad by themselves and do help us incrementally grow. But its so easy to grow cheap trees now and someone inevitably will grow them, start adding them together and suddenly theres no space and well have to grow the forest again. And suddenly the cycle repeats with an increased cap.
A few days-ish? Let me check...
Vote opened Feb 7
Vote closed Feb 11
So about 4 days there (depending on how things lined up with the date changes, somewhere between just over 3 days and just under 5).
One before that was Jan 26-29, so about three days there. So overall looks like probably a bit more than three days/vote.
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(Non-player) Elder Trees!
For the people who keep obsessively building empty trees for some unknown reason, could you at least switch to upgrading them to elder trees now? From looking at it, it looks like what they do is provide a small number of autosuccesses to becoming invisible, a power we've never used, so we really don't need more of them taking up our special tree slots.
Looks like we definitely want at least one elderscoop hoop tree to upgrade that action. Skimmer is probably not a bad idea to unlock that action either. The percentage increased trees (tranquil/scoop) are pretty small improvements, but given they're highly limited in number and their effects are already extremely useful, not that bad an upgrade choice.
EDIT: fixed using scoop tree instead of hoop for the "expand forest reach" action
For the people who keep obsessively building empty trees for some unknown reason, could you at least switch to upgrading them to elder trees now? From looking at it, it looks like what they do is provide a small number of autosuccesses to becoming invisible, a power we've never used, so we really don't need more of them taking up our special tree slots.
Looks like we definitely want at least one elder
EDIT: fixed using scoop tree instead of hoop for the "expand forest reach" action
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- Location
- United Kingdom
Does this mean if we have one Elder Magnetic Tree, and no Player Tree chooses to activate the Shield, we'd get 3 autos from the Elder and 6 from the base trees, or do the base trees need a Player to start the action for their bonus to activate?
Pretty much all of those are fairly significant upgrades, should provide the Root Trees something to do when we've hit our cap.
You're going to need a Player to start the action for the base Magnetic Tree bonus to activate.
- Location
- USA
Hmmm with triple focus we can upgrade one tree to elder a turn, I lean towards Tranquil-> Scoop -> Collector since the first two increase the multplier on player actions, the latter once we upgrade all 14 collector trees will give us 28+ mag (currently 3) and with a modifier of 1 to 1.4 (so currently max is +43 or 1 special tree upgrade per focus action)
Only do to the need to research and use player growth actions do i put tranquil and scoop before collector for focus upgrades.
I freely encourage our growth players to use actions to upgrade their preferred trees to elder trees as one we are out space but also 2 the elder trees are strong
Only do to the need to research and use player growth actions do i put tranquil and scoop before collector for focus upgrades.
I freely encourage our growth players to use actions to upgrade their preferred trees to elder trees as one we are out space but also 2 the elder trees are strong
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- Location
- United Kingdom
Depending on how our Growth bonuses work out, it might be feasible to go directly for Mag 4 this turn. We need 66.25 more successes to reach Mag 4.
Assuming the below HDP still remains in effect, we've moved 1 light minute closer, got 3 Scoop trees and have the Expand the reach of the Forest action maxed from this turn just gone, all of which together adds up to:
HDP: 1.4
Sun Proximity: 0.2
Scoop: 0.3
Expand: 0.1
Which together is a x2 multiplier on Growth (x4 with the Worm), so we only need 16.5825, so 17 normal successes. Less if we decide to put a Focus on it.
Assuming the below HDP still remains in effect, we've moved 1 light minute closer, got 3 Scoop trees and have the Expand the reach of the Forest action maxed from this turn just gone, all of which together adds up to:
HDP: 1.4
Sun Proximity: 0.2
Scoop: 0.3
Expand: 0.1
Which together is a x2 multiplier on Growth (x4 with the Worm), so we only need 16.5825, so 17 normal successes. Less if we decide to put a Focus on it.
- Location
- A Table Near You
So, I was trying to determine which Elder Trees are mathematically best by calculating their Expected Return on Investment (as one does), and I think I caught a slight error.
If I'm not mistaken, the +10% Hoop Tree bonus was applied to Survival actions, instead of Growth.
I'm assuming the formula being used here is:
(Particles + Sun Proximity) * Worm = (1.4 + .1) * 2 = 3
If another +10% was included, the multiplier would be 3.2. Instead, the bonus appears to be going toward all Survival actions:
On a related subject, are Hoop and Scoop Trees supposed to affect Forest Focuses, if the Focus is a growth action? The wording suggests they might ("all Growth actions") but all the other multipliers have so far excluded automatic successes.
If no, then you can honestly choose to ignore fixing the math here. The only significant change in that case would be about two extra successes to Growing the Forest, and a couple less each to Storage/Worm. Doubt that's likely to matter.
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Sun Proximity applies to both, so I missed one of those (Proximity or Hoop) applying to Growth. I'll get around to adjusting the results later.
Thanks for the catch!
They are not; I'll get around to clarifying the language. "Action" is generic for player votes, while Focus is explicitly indicated where it applies.
"All Sources" is new wording and applies to both.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hm. Does sun proximity apply to focus actions as well?
- Location
- USA
Elder collector trees gain a bonus but generally the wording has been a boost to growth actions not focus.
Also curious what research we unlocked with elder trees and wormhole investigation or we might have to grow trees into elder versions for additional research
edit-
Okay looking at last turn we had over 60 dice on growth actions. We also have +17 to Growth Focus with 3 Focus
Current modifiers to Growth actions:
Worm +100%
Scoop Trees (3) +30%
Sun Proximity 1 +10%
High Density +40%?
Total boost to growth actions: 180%
Research Actions:
Worm +100%
Tranquil Trees (3) +30%
Total Boost: 130%
Forest: 133.75/200 to next mag
Collector Tree (14) +1 Growth Focus, Elder (0) +2 Growth Focus and boost up to 40% based on proximity to Growth Focus Need 40 success to upgrade
Scoop Tree (3) +10% per tree to Growth actions, Elder (0) +15% to Growth Actions Need 50 success to upgrade
Tranquil Tree (3) +10% per tree to Research actions, Elder (0) +15% to Research Actions Need 40 success to upgrade
Assuming 60 dice on Growth and that Elder Collector boost is the same as Sun Proximity
30 success = + 1.5 success from upgrading Scoop Tree to Elder Scoop Tree per turn
3 focuses at +1.1 per focus = +3.3 from upgrading Collector Tree to Elder Collector Tree
So looking at it, and with the better we optimize our Sun Proximity we get more out of turning Collector Trees into Elder Collector Trees and it takes 10 fewer success. Thus my current proposal for focus actions is:
Elder Tranquil Trees (until all 3 are upgraded), Elder Collector Trees (until all 14 are upgraded), Elder Scoop Trees (until all 3 are upgraded) exceptions to using all 3 focuses on this growth is when we hit mag 4 and unlock new trees, at that point using a focus to grow a new tree should be considered. As it is with 3 focuses we get +51 for using all 3 on growth which lets us finish 1 tranquil tree and get 11/40 on tree number 2
That we are also close to finishing Crystal Formation which boost Growth Actions for Forest Mag makes me more inclined to try and have people use actions to Grow the forest
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- Location
- A Table Near You
The Worm's multiplier is applied after adding all the other bonuses together. For Growth actions, the formula would be:
1.3 (Scoop Trees) + .4 (Particles) + .1 (Sun Proximity) + .1 (Hoop Tree action, overflow from Turn 7) = 1.9
1.9 * 2 (Worm)= 3.8
Final multiplier: 3.8 (+280%)
While for Research actions, we have:
1.3 (Tranquil Trees) * 2 (Worm) = 2.6
Final multiplier: 2.6 (+160%)
This will take some analysis to explain, but I suggest we grab an Elder Skimmer and at least one Elder Feeling before jumping down the econ rabbit hole.
Raising Kittens has done a pretty good job balancing the T2 Tranquil/Scoop/Collector Trees; they're decent long term investments, yet generate extra successes slowly enough that it takes several turns to recoup the cost of their upgrade. Because of this, it's usually better to buy a few quality-of-life improvements first.
Upgrade Cost: 40
Improvement over base Tranquil: +5%
1/2 the bonus for twice the cost, or a 4x worse investment than the T1 version
Worm multiplies +5% into +10% base successes
Total research dice last turn: 86 dice, 43 successes
Thus, it generates about an extra 4 or 5 research successes per turn
Time to return a profit (in raw successes): 8-10 turns
Of the three econ Elder Trees, the Tranquil is the best. Effectively, it converts 40 Growth successes into a slow trickle of Research; a pretty decent trade considering how swamped Mind Trees are most of the time.
However, 4 or 5 successes per turn are unlikely to make an immediate difference, when split between multiple techs. Therefore, I think we should prioritize getting an Elder Skimmer (to unlock the 'Set a Course' Choice, making it easier to coordinate moving closer to the Sun) and 1 Elder Feeling (to see how much it improves awareness, and whether more are worth it.)
Cost: 50 (5x the cost of T1)
Improvement over Scoop: +5%
1/2 the bonus for 5x the cost, or 10x worse investment than base
Worm multiplies +5% into +10% base successes
Dice pool from Growth actions last turn: 86 Dice, 38 Successes
Generates about 4-5 successes per turn
Time to return a profit: ~10-13 turns
While the base Scoop Tree is amazing due to its dirt-cheap cost — it returns a profit after only 1 turn — the Elder version takes 10x as long to regain the cost of its own upgrade. 50 Growth successes are used to generate a slow trickle of 4-5 Growth successes per turn. Not great.
Elder Scoops will slowly become a better deal as our dice pool grows larger. For now though, they're by far the worst pick of the three.
Cost: 40
Improvement: 1 extra auto-success per Focus dedicated to Growth/Lasers
Up to a 40% increase with Star Proximity (2.8 auto-successes total at max)
At Mag 4, that's +4 auto-successes per turn,
or 1.8 * 4 = 7.2 extra successes at optimal distance from Sun
Time to generate a profit: ~5-10 turns, depending on Proximity, and how quickly we reach Mag 5 and beyond
For now, Elder Collectors are strictly superior to Elder Scoops. Not only do pay for their upgrade cost quicker with sufficient Proximity, they'll also double as an Offense action once we have Laser Power researched.
Anyway, my proposal for the Focuses next turn is:
Grow Elder Skimmer Tree
Grow Elder Skimmer Tree x2
Grow the Forest
Which would give us a guaranteed Elder Skimmer, and Mag 4 if a similar number of people vote to Grow the Forest as they did last turn.
Reaching Mag 4 is still the highest priority though, so Grow the Forest x3 is fine should it prove necessary.
Then afterwards for Turns 9+, the rough Focus priority can go:
Optical Tree (will hopefully research Turn 8) ---> 1 Elder Skimmer (if we don't already have it) ---> 1 Elder Feeling ---> Elder Tranquil x4 ---> 1 Elder Hoop (to improve the action) ---> remaining Elder Feeling ---> Elder Collector x14 ---> Elder Scoop x4
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- Location
- USA
Elder Tranquil Trees are however the only way we currently have of boosting growth as for forest Mag 4, I view the tree actions will help us more there. And worm is applied after all the modifiers? Nice that does change the effective value of Normal to elder from +5% to +10%.
Not doing Elder Collector before the other specials though means we are slowing down our focus. Even at 1.1 upgrading all 14 will give us +33.8 success compared to +17 per focus, as we move closer that goes to +42.2 (43.2 when we hit mag 4) which is a big boost to our growth focus
Not doing Elder Collector before the other specials though means we are slowing down our focus. Even at 1.1 upgrading all 14 will give us +33.8 success compared to +17 per focus, as we move closer that goes to +42.2 (43.2 when we hit mag 4) which is a big boost to our growth focus
- Location
- A Table Near You
I'm guessing you think so because of Crystal Formation? Tech bonuses don't apply until after the turn they're researched. There's no difference between using Focuses or Actions to reach Mag 4.
Yes, having all the Collectors upgraded will boost the Focuses. What matters is the cost needed to actually do so, and how it compares to the return.
Each Elder Collector needs 40 Growth successes, and gives about an extra 4 - 8 per turn, depending on Proximity and Magnitude. At such a rate, it takes 5-10 turns to break even from the initial investment. Before then, the upgrade represents a net loss.
Therefore, if there's anything more immediately useful (new unique trees, Elder Skimmer/Hoop/Feeling, etc.) we're pretty much always better off getting those before committing to the x14 Collectors. Especially since upgrading a few misc Trees takes a fraction of the time.
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- Location
- USA
Not just Crystal Formation but that is likely to kick in the following turn since we should finish it the coming turn but just from players putting actions on to growing the forest. Also your calculations on the collectors looking at break even is ignoring that other trees do not provide bonuses and as such will not break even. If you look at the number of turns needed to use focuses and actions to fully upgrade all our trees into elders however then collectors increase in value as one of three trees to accelerate that process (skimmer and scoop being the other 2).
I also mentioned that diverting focuses to ensure we have one of each new tree we research (and potentially forest mag for stuff like hyper trees which i anticipate to be capped at forest mag like scoop and tranquil) are priorities. I also consider that by the time we finish upgrading all 3 tranquil trees that other ones such as the skimmer tree and at least 1 feeling tree will have been upgraded or be close to finishing from actions alone.
We are talking about upgrading trees into elder trees not adding new ones. Right now my preference for when we raise the forest mag to 4 is 1 tranquil, 1 scoop, 4 hyper, 1 reflecting, 1 optical and 2 slots for any new tree not on our list yet.
Turn 08
No SV You Are the Forest
A Riot Quest
Turn 08
A Riot Quest
Turn 08
Another cycle had come and gone. The Forest had reached a new stage of understanding in the previous cycle, allowing it to grow more capable versions of its already extant Special Trees. It would have to do so in order to discover new Trees that it could grow, and methods it could use to further gird itself against the terrors in the universe.
The resources that had been dedicated to erecting a shield were lost when no threat came up. A shield was erected anyway, flickering briefly before it faded. A single Predator bumped into it, and came away with its eyes crossed, before trying to pass through it again – successfully.
The particles coming from out system had not decreased as the Forest approached the local star. It had, instead, increased. This was very peculiar – something was happening, but the Forest could not easily find out. It would just have to wait.
The Wormhole twitched a few times, an odd sensation in the magnetic fields around it, and rocks tumbled out of it. Great masses of resources, all clumped up, they shone in the magnetic detection of the Feeling Trees, bright masses of stuff. Perhaps the Forest could claim them?
If the Forest did not, then they would fall into the sun, or somehow stabilize into orbit around the star. Or perhaps the Ingaba would claim them for their own purposes.
[A cloud of asteroids has exited the Wormhole]
The Star was acting oddly. The magnetic fields it gave off roiled higher, and stronger than usual... and the Collector Trees were outright gathering more energy than usual. It hadn't happened when the Forest got closer to the star, so why was it happening now?
No matter, it was happening, and the Forest would take advantage of it.
[The local star has entered a high-activity phase. Collector Trees grant one additional success per age category of the Collector Tree to Focus actions centered on Growth]
At the very edges of the Forest's senses, a mass of dust and rock curled in, a distant thing. It was large. Not so large as the Forest, or the mobile shipyard the Ingaba were taking apart, but it was the largest other thing moving that the Forest had ever detected.
If the Tree could dig its Roots into it, they might get a wealth of resources from it!
Now, how was the Forest going to accomplish that?
[An exceptionally large comet has entered detection range]
*-*-*-*
Senior Scientist Oragles was looking over the reports from the other teams he was now responsible for, studying and examining them.
Fluctuations in the wormhole were concerning, but the fact that it resulted in a bunch of slow-moving rocks exiting it was a relief. It would take quite a lot more time and effort to discern just what fluctuations meant when it came to discerning what was coming through, and even longer to figure out how to actually transit the thing, but it was the first step.
The comet was of mild interest, but nothing more – and perhaps the Forest would take advantage of it. That would be interesting to see.
But. Then he came across the report of the group watching the 'Predators' that lurked within the Forest. They had woken up, with pups, and now... what was that they were chasing? The team hadn't identified it; just a hunk of metal, they claimed; probably one of their own probes that had lost power some years ago.
If it was one of their own probes, it would be providing them with data. Oragles had ensured that, and the probe that had been toyed with by them several years ago had done exactly that.
Whatever this was, it wasn't responding to them in any way. Oragles ordered a probe sent out to examine it, and turned his attention to other things.
When he got the data back, he didn't understand what he was seeing. It took him quite some time before he did...
-*-*-*-
"Admiral, you don't understand. The principles used in the construction of this probe are like nothing we have ever seen before. The materials science alone is beyond what we have accomplished."
"Senior Scientist, you are worrying for no reason," the Admiral on the other end commented offhand. "It is nothing to worry about, I am sure."
Oragles fumed. Fleet Admiral Monagles had been much easier to work with than this hack. Why, oh why, had Monagles been called to the other end of the Directorate?
Probably another flare-up along the border with somebody. It happened. Hopefully, hopefully, the peace would hold long enough for the next generation of the Fleet to be deployed. It had so far, a strained, tenuous thing, with each side glaring at each other. Monagles was quite good at glaring.
"Admiral, you don't understand. This drone could survive the transit of the Wormhole – something it would take an Escort of our own to accomplish. It isn't from around here."
"I understand perfectly, Senior Scientist; I understand that you want more funding. Get results from what you are already studying, and maybe then I can pitch for you to get that funding," the other Ingaba shook his mane. "I don't really know what is so special about that Forest, anyway, but you do your job, and I'll do mine."
Oragles' ears twitched in restrained annoyance. How had this moron been promoted to admiral? He would have to look it up. His exile to this Forest had not destroyed his connections; the results he had already achieved had only strengthened them.
Besides, he had already gotten the extra funding for Wormhole research.
"Admiral, for your own sake, I hope that it is just paranoia. I'm not asking for funding. I'm asking you to try to reinforce the garrison here, because these probes could be the prelude to an assault – if they can send probes this small through without us noticing, what else might be sent through?"
The Admiral furrowed his brow. "With all the ships sent back for refits, we just don't have the numbers, Senior Scientist. I'll see what I can do, but I'm unwilling to make promises."
"I can't ask for more than you trying, Admiral. Thank you."
"You are most welcome, Senior Scientist."
Turn 08 Vote
The Worm remains in effect, doubling all non-automatic successes.
Communication Actions
[ ][Action] Ask the Research Base about the Prey.
-Requires 5 successes, 4/5
[ ][Action] Reach out to the Research Base.
-[ ][Action] Write-in what to speak about.
-Requires 5 successes
Defense Actions
[ ][Action] Erect the Shield! (Magnetic)
-There's nothing there. Probably. However, the Beast's uncaring movement through the system was informative – it was very possible for other beings to arrive without warning, and leave just as quickly.
[-][Action] Prepare a Shard Volley (Crystal)
-This action primes resources to hurl a volley of razor sharp shards of crystal, splintered from the trunks and branches of the Forest itself. Successes are banked against future need, but only to a point – 10 successes per Magnitude of the Forest can be stored. 30/30 stored.
-Action Unavailable, All possible Shards stored.
[ ][Action] Move towards where the Ingaba ships always appear from. (Gravity)
-Multiple side effects. The more successes this action has, the faster it occurs.
Growth Actions
-High-density particles remains in effect. All non-automatic successes are multiplied by 1.6.
-Sun Proximity 1 is in effect. All non-automatic successes have their multiplier increase by 0.1.
-The Sun has entered a high-activity phase; the bonus provided by Collector Trees to Focus Actions centered on Growth has increased by 1 per age category of the Collector Tree.
-The Reach of the Forest has been expanded. All non-automatic successes have their multiplier increased by 0.1.
-The Forest is at 40/40 Special Trees. No new Special Trees may be grown.
[ ][Action] Grow the Forest
-133.75/200 successes to Mag 4
[-][Action] Grow <Treename>
-Replace <Treename> with the name of a Special Tree from the Front Page. Variable cost.
-Action Unavailable. Special Tree Cap reached. Grow the Forest or research new Upgrades to increase the Special Tree cap.
[ ][Action] Upgrade <Treename>
-Replace <Treename> with the name of a Special Tree with an unlocked older form. Variable cost. This does not take up any additional Special Tree slots.
Growth progress is visible on the front page.
Offense Actions
[ ][Action] Soothe the Predators to keep them from messing around (Psychic)
-Opposed Action.
[ ][Action] Soothe the Research Base to mess with their psychics (Psychic)
-Opposed Action. The Ingaba have a solid group of Psychics, and may have brought more in since the last time this was tried.
No targets available for the Magnetize power.
Research Actions
-The FP has been updated with new researches as a result of researching Elder Trees.
-Further Researches require various Elder Trees to be unlocked before they become available.
-All Psychic Research actions gain +1 success per Forest Magnitude while the Ingaba Research Agreement is in effect, provided at least one action is taken on them.
[ ][Action] Assist the Ingaba Research Base (General)
-This action works to pay off the Forest's side of the deal with the Ingaba Directorate. In order to not default on the Treaty, at least ten dice must be paid into this action every turn for ten turns.
-Effect: For each die paid into this Action, the Forest will obtain one success to the most voted for Research Action with an asterisk.
[ ][Action] Research Wormhole Stabilization (Gravity, Void)
-Unlocks a Survival Action to stabilize an unstable Wormhole. The difficulty of this action has many variables.
-Requires 50 Successes to Research
[ ][Action] Research Wormhole Drawing (Gravity, Void)
-Unlocks an action to draw resources from a Wormhole, deliberately pulling matter and energy where once nothing was except memory. This is more effective than simply gathering resources from available particles and light.
-Requires 50 Successes to Research
Survival Actions
-Sun Proximity is in effect. The multiplier for all non-automatic Survival successes is increased by 0.1.
[ ][Action] Attempt to store resources against future need. (General)
-All successes stored. 105.2 successes banked against recovering future damage or to pay off the debt owed to the Ingaba Directorate.
-Effected by High Density Particles, increasing the success multiplier by 0.6
Note: 5 Survival successes per turn are lost to the Ingaba Directorate as a result of paying for samples of new technologies.
[ ][Action] Sacrifice to the Worm (???)
-The Worm is always hungry. Feed the Worm that it might grow.
-Requires 100 successes before the Worm is satisfied. 32.8/100
-Effected by High Density Particles, increasing the success multiplier by 0.6
[-][Action] Expand the reach of the Forest, allowing it to gather resources from a larger area. (Magnetic)
-The Hoop Tree extends a powerful magnetic field, capturing stray particles that are greatly distant from the Forest and channeling them to the roots. Sufficient successes empower all Growth actions.
-With 10 successes, the successes of all Growth actions are increased by 10%. 7/10.
-Action Automatically implemented for this turn and unavailable to take this turn.
[ ][Action] Move closer to the local star to improve the Sun Proximity bonus. (Gravity)
-The more successes this has, the faster the movement occurs. The star provides much of the matter and energy used by the Forest; perhaps getting closer will increase the amount received.
[ ][Action] Utilize the Twist power to grow or shrink the Forest (Gravity)
-This action increases or decreases the effective Magnitude of the Forest, for the purpose of opposing hostile effects where it is beneficial to be larger or smaller. This does not alter the number of available Focus actions, or otherwise influence non-hostile effects that depend upon the magnitude of the Forest.
-This action does not bank successes. 0/10.
[ ][Action] Erect the Empty Veil (Void)
-Cloak the Forest from opposing sensors, deliberately hiding it from all forms of detection.
-Opposed Action. Unlike with Shields, the Veil rolls against each other faction individually.
Other
[ ][Action] Write-in
-For if you believe I'm missing something. I reserve the right to disapprove of any write-ins, or appropriate them for other purposes and places.
Focus
Choose any three actions from the above for the Forest to focus on. These are voted upon by the entire group, and are in addition to the individual actions taken by each member. Multiples should be indicated with a x#, so the second identical action would be x2, etc.
[ ][Focus] Action Name
These Actions will receive a number of automatic successes equal to the Magnitude of the Forest and any bonuses from other sources.
At the moment, the top three focus actions will win, each receiving the focus of the Forest.
*-*-*-*
Your Votes should look like the following:
[ ][Action] Action
[ ][Focus] Action 1
[ ][Focus] Action 2
[ ][Focus] Action 3
Newcomers should add one of the following:
[ ][Tree] Heart Tree
[ ][Tree] Mind Tree
[ ][Tree] Root Tree
This vote will always be open.
*-*-*-*
Welp, I'm sorry for the delay here.... but it's done! Barring me running into something absurdly addicting again, the next updates should come more smoothly. I hope.
Please let me know if I've missed or forgotten anything.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
PLAN REVISED to VERSION 2.4!
Now factors in new information about Elder collector tree sun proximity bonus.
A tl;dr up front for all trees: want magnitude 6 in 4 turns? Use your focus actions like this:
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x1
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
Root trees should also vote [X][ACTION] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
Elder collector trees are better at growing the forest than growing the forest this turn. For details on what you should be doing with your action, read on.
This elder mind tree has evolved into a spreadsheet tree.
Alright aspens and pines, we have an unparalleled opportunity on our hands to get Magnitude Six in only 4 turns while upgrading most of our collector tree grove for cheap, and it's all thanks to this:
Ya'see, over the next four turns, collector trees of every tier are twice as good! And you know what else?
Currently, we're on track to have worm level 3 completed this turn, and are super duper definitely getting magnitude 4 this turn.
So, I've been crunching numbers. Assuming we get magnitude 4, worm level 3, and crystal formation this turn, every Collector Tree upgrade we buy on the first turn will produce 68.25 growth in return for the 40 growth it took to buy it over this 4 turn span - collector tree upgrades bought turn 2 will return 47.25 growth over the remainder of that period.
Now, these numbers assume we get Worm level 3 by turn 3 - but if we park 35 dice on feeding the worm this turn, we could have it by next turn and the efficiency of collector trees bought this turn shoots way up.
Turn 3 the efficiency of upgrades takes a nose dive, which is our cue to slam everything into growing the forest. If we upgrade 3 trees turn 1 and 6 trees turn 2, we'll need in the neighborhood of 65 player successes on growing the forest from turns 2 through 4 to make magnitude 6 on turn 4.
note: "successes" is being used to mean "you rolled a die and it succeeded", so it's referring to results before multipliers or bonuses of any kind. Generally, we want slightly over double the number of dice as the successes we're aiming for.
Focus actions: Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
Root trees:Growing the forest to Mag4 (done!), Upgrade Elder Collector Trees
Mind trees: Complete Crystal Growth research
Heart trees: Feed the worm!
What we accomplish:
Focus actions: Elder Collector Tree x4
Root trees: Upgrade Elder Collector Trees
What we accomplish:
Focus actions: Grow the forest to purchase magnitude 5
Root trees: Grow the forest
TURN 4:
Focus actions: Grow the forest to purchase Magnitude 6
Root trees: Grow the forest as-needed to finish magnitude 6.
In the process of planning this, I put together an interactive spreadsheet to model the possible course of our growth during these four turns, which I will be linking here for the perusal of anyone curious. In it, you can:
Now factors in new information about Elder collector tree sun proximity bonus.
A tl;dr up front for all trees: want magnitude 6 in 4 turns? Use your focus actions like this:
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x1
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
Root trees should also vote [X][ACTION] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
Elder collector trees are better at growing the forest than growing the forest this turn. For details on what you should be doing with your action, read on.
This elder mind tree has evolved into a spreadsheet tree.
Alright aspens and pines, we have an unparalleled opportunity on our hands to get Magnitude Six in only 4 turns while upgrading most of our collector tree grove for cheap, and it's all thanks to this:
Ya'see, over the next four turns, collector trees of every tier are twice as good! And you know what else?
Which is to say, with worm lvl 3 and crystal formation, we can then *multiplicatively* stack a 1.875x multiplier on top of high solar activity's doubling of collector tree effectiveness.
Currently, we're on track to have worm level 3 completed this turn, and are super duper definitely getting magnitude 4 this turn.
So, I've been crunching numbers. Assuming we get magnitude 4, worm level 3, and crystal formation this turn, every Collector Tree upgrade we buy on the first turn will produce 68.25 growth in return for the 40 growth it took to buy it over this 4 turn span - collector tree upgrades bought turn 2 will return 47.25 growth over the remainder of that period.
Now, these numbers assume we get Worm level 3 by turn 3 - but if we park 35 dice on feeding the worm this turn, we could have it by next turn and the efficiency of collector trees bought this turn shoots way up.
Turn 3 the efficiency of upgrades takes a nose dive, which is our cue to slam everything into growing the forest. If we upgrade 3 trees turn 1 and 6 trees turn 2, we'll need in the neighborhood of 65 player successes on growing the forest from turns 2 through 4 to make magnitude 6 on turn 4.
note: "successes" is being used to mean "you rolled a die and it succeeded", so it's referring to results before multipliers or bonuses of any kind. Generally, we want slightly over double the number of dice as the successes we're aiming for.
The Four Turn Magnitude 6 Plan
TURN 1:Focus actions: Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
Root trees:
Mind trees: Complete Crystal Growth research
Heart trees: Feed the worm!
What we accomplish:
- Magnitude 4. Root trees gonna root, the original version of this plan had 2 focus actions here but they took care of it and now I'm scrambling to get our focus actions shifted over to Upgrade Elder Collector Tree.
- Crystal Growth: the multiplier for player and focus actions are both increased additively by 25%.
- Around 3 elder collector tree upgrades depending on root tree cooperation.
- First Upgrade at 7 base successes.
- Collector tree upgrades this turn are 75% better than growing the forest directly for the purpose of reaching mag6 by turn 4. Each one will produce 68.25 growth! Get in while the getting is good!
- Worm level 3!
Focus actions: Elder Collector Tree x4
Root trees: Upgrade Elder Collector Trees
What we accomplish:
- More elder collector collector trees. Depending on the details, we might be able to get them all!
- Upgrades purchased turn 2 will produce 47.25 growth each.
- Direct progress towards magnitude 5
Focus actions: Grow the forest to purchase magnitude 5
Root trees: Grow the forest
TURN 4:
Focus actions: Grow the forest to purchase Magnitude 6
Root trees: Grow the forest as-needed to finish magnitude 6.
In the process of planning this, I put together an interactive spreadsheet to model the possible course of our growth during these four turns, which I will be linking here for the perusal of anyone curious. In it, you can:
- Set turn-by-turn inputs such as:
- Currently Magnitude of the forest
- Base Player successes (before bonuses) towards a purchase (collector tree upgrades in first two turns)
- Focus actions spent towards a purchase
- The presence or absence of completed research like worm level 3 and crystal formation
- The current value of bonus-impacting circumstances, such as sun proximity, high-density particles, "expand the reach of the forest" bonus, and the presence of high sun activity.
- The number of scoop trees currently in the forest
- Clearing banked growth for that turn
- ...and receive turn-by-turn calculations detailing:
- The current multipliers for player actions and focus actions
- How many collector trees were upgraded each turn, and how many base and elder collector trees are currently present
- Total growth achieved between focus and player actions towards a purchase
- Currently configured for elder tree upgrades on turns 1 and 2, and growing the forest turns 3 and 4
- How much growth was banked from the previous turn (eg, excess growth after purchase)
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X][Action] Research Crystal Formation (Crystal)*
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x2
[X][FOCUS] Upgrade Elder Collector Tree x3
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