Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

[Elder Haman]

I purchase a ton of neon-colored rubber balls for the ball trick scanning for the beholder.

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I plan to do this as well. At work right now, so hard to update plans.

I see it mainly as a way to ease up on the pressure on the GM for the update itself, and allow him/us to deal with the minutiae on an as-needed basis. It's not that we're not talking about it at all (it's fully implied in what Mami will need to talk with them about), it's that we don't need to cram every last detail into the update itself, when the updates are already getting quite long and troublesome for the GM.

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Seems to me that less vagueness makes it easier on the GM, not harder. It's not like I'm giving details on how Mami is to do something. I'm just listing what we want and what we have to offer. Not being explicit about that is likely to get a GM ruling "You didn't say you wanted that."

Haman wants to poke the beholder; I don't.

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The beholder is the great threat, we need to get as much information about it as possible. It's not clear to me what harm there is in doing this either.

We don't have much we could actually trade with Kofu, and at their size, they likely don't have a whole lot of money to spend, either. And I can't think of any particularly useful extra actions we could take right now that would matter too much for next month's Tokyo work.

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Kofu was described as "about half your size" that's actually a pretty useful size to deal with. They might trade 3 or 4 cubes with us a month.

it's a little hard to pick back up again after dropping it for a month (in terms of relations, not mechanics)

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How so? Gossipmonger ought to be easy to drop at times. "Sorry, busy saving Tokyo this month, let's talk next month."

 

[inverted_helix]

On the akiya house, I'd just ask one question of Mami, IC: Would you be embarrassed to ask someone to live in this house (accounting for refurbishment) compared to the houses you're renting for the rest of the girls? Completely aside from the issue of its special needs (1 km distance).

Supposedly this is one of the better akiya options, but I'm still not sure how that rates.

Likewise, would the renovation of one of the village houses be something she'd be happy with? Again, I have an image of what it could be, but we also know that the village is a bit of a wreck right now.

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It's not top of the line, but neither are what you have all your girls living in. They're perfectly reasonable though.

@inverted_helix Is that an accurate assessment?

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Both village and akiya are roughly the same size and smaller than the houses you rent in your main areas. Since in those areas you're looking for houses to serve more people.

All right. Will accept that, and take it off my worry list.

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Ugh. Hate this choice. Everything has a downside: money, contact risks, or investment effort.

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Yeah here's the thing even without that on your worry list every choice has downsides that make it balanced. You don't need the additional worry of one of them being straight up unlivable from the start. I thought I balanced these choices pretty well on the face of them. You don't need to borrow more problems.

Alt: If we can assume that we can acquire the village at any time in the future, I'll leave it off the immediate acquisition list, but still have the above plan in mind.

@inverted_helix?

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The village almost certainly won't be going anywhere. Though repair costs may gradually rise over time, but that would still be the case if you acquired it and then did nothing with it.

Hmm. Actually it might be a good idea if she doesn't try to earn money the same month as she takes the class and gets the certification. From what I can tell, when trying to get work as a pet trainer, the cert is mostly a prerequisite; the real determiner of how people value your skills is if you have hours of experience actually handling animals. So this month she'd take 0.5 months and take a $1,000 class, then volunteer at a shelter or something for another half or whole month, then put out a shingle on the third month. Up until she actually starts advertising for the business, the time can be split up with no loss.

Sound okay @inverted_helix?

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This is acceptable.

 

[Aranfan]

@Kinematics

Once Helix confirms TheEyes' pricing, if you put in the groundwork for Nagisa becoming Pet Whisperer, then I will switch to your vote. I still don't like the Getaway House, but it seems like Haman will be doing that too, so I'll take what I can get.

 

[Kinematics]

OK, put the gossipmonger back, and added getting Nagisa's initial training certification.

Settled on the getaway for housing, with future plans for the village. Have beat my head against this wall enough that I'm just letting this choice stand.

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Kofu was described as "about half your size" that's actually a pretty useful size to deal with. They might trade 3 or 4 cubes with us a month.

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"Less than half your size" (so maybe 30 or less), with a later slip indicating they had maybe 20 girls. The city of Kofu itself could support 10, and the rest of their territory is basically rural, so can't expect very much out of that.

I'd estimate it takes them 9-10 vets to work that amount of territory (including support staff), though they could save a bit (perhaps 1.5 vets) if they allowed a small bit of risk (~5%). Probably 6 people on jobs just to pay for general upkeep, with a little extra to spend on research or whatever. A couple more for slow diplomacy expansion.

Well, if they have a few more, like 25 total, they might be able to get a bit of research done. Or they could put all of those on jobs to get a modest income.

Overall, I expect them to be stable, with a modest growth rate, but not enough territory to support anything significant. I would not be surprised if they spent a bit more on amenities (due to a democratic system), which would in turn lower their net income. And they may actually have a bit of research going.

Nothing we can pick up from them on the research side is likely to be usable before the Tokyo expedition (at the very least, it would need a month of training). They might possibly have a few spare cubes, but that's a lot of effort to go to for an extra ~$3,000 (net profit), which is an order of magnitude out from the types of moneys we need to work with.

It's worth negotiating with them, but I don't think it's worth negotiating with them right now.

 

[Aranfan]

Personally I hope we can eventually diplomance Kofu into joining up with us.

 

[TheEyes]

Once Helix confirms TheEyes' pricing, if you put in the groundwork for Nagisa becoming Pet Whisperer, then I will switch to your vote. I still don't like the Getaway House, but it seems like Haman will be doing that too, so I'll take what I can get.

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You know, I don't like the Getaway house much either. I feel if we're going to be spending $40,000 over four months that we should have an actual asset to show for it, rather than nothing. I am especially dubious about @Kinematics and @Elder Haman's confidence that we can quickly start extracting large sums of money from Tokyo within a few months; after all, we haven't even managed to complete the Fujinomya expansion yet, and if anything Tokyo's going to be a tougher market.

At the same time, I can see the argument that the Akiya house is just one more potential complication that we just don't need right now. For now, going with

[X] Kinematics's Plan

mostly because I'm dubious at the trade of tandem casting to Kofu, and I really think we should have Serena settled before we try poking at the beholder.

 

[Aranfan]

Not to mention how we will need to pay all our new recruits and that will be much harder if our cash-flow is negative.

 

[Elder Haman]

Added purchase of balls.

Removed trade of Tandem casting to Kofu.

Switched back to Getaway house, as there doesn't seem to be any real strong feeling for the Akiya House.

 

[Elder Haman]

Just realized, we need to add some fluff about Mami getting the girls together (twice? once in each house) to break out the charts and explain that Tokyo is probably going to go the way of Hong Kong if we don't do something in the next 3 months.

Explain our recruitment of Serena, etc.

Tentative plans for training for Tokyo.

"This is what we became magical girls for. To protect the people of Japan!"

 

[Elder Haman]

Two things I still feel rather strongly about the relative plans:

1: We absolutely should "poke" the beholder.

It's also extremely frustrating that no one has explained why or how doing this could possibly be a bad thing.

Only Kinematics has worried that it could trigger the beholder to go after the scouting team.

To which my response is: GREAT! That is the very best thing that could happen.

We have teleporters there. So the scouting team can immediately escape, and we will have proven that we can lure the beholder out of Tokyo and straight into an ambush.

It could not get any better.

And still, no one has responded at all to this argument. Please articulate why you think it's bad to poke the beholder.

2: I think it silly to have a trade deal and not say what we want. If you don't ask Nagoya for something how will they know we want it? How can you just assume that the QM will hand wave details like that? If you want something, you have to ask for it. Otherwise you don't get it.

Things I ask for that Kinematic's plan does not:

-- After killing the eyeball demon, we expect that clearing of Tokyo of all class 3 demons will be possible using only Serene resources, but working together with Nagoya's would certainly speed things up, though we would have to work in different parts of the city. This process may take anywhere from a month to three months. One thing we are concerned about is that class 3 demons may flee Tokyo and attack other magical girl groups that are not strong enough to handle them. We don't have sufficient resources to handle this by ourselves. Ask if Nagoya would be willing to send forces to hunt down any fleeing demons that leave Tokyo on the western border. Since we are planning to begin our assault in Yokohama, we expect Kofu will be the most vulnerable location.
-- Ask for all information they have on the eyeball demon. Abilities, behavior, can it be lured into an ambush? Any information they think might help us kill it.
-- Ask for dossiers on the Elites still remaining in Tokyo. Particularly any on their "banned" list with details about their behavior.
-- Negotiate to purchase Kevlar vest and clothing.
-- Negotiate to purchase research information on any of the combat tech we learn about from the Tokyo expedition
-- Ask if there is other combat tech we could purchase that may help us in the fight for Tokyo

We'll probably get Kevlar since that is a standard offering of theirs. We might get some combat tech, but of course the offer for what we already know about won't be made, so that subtle gesture is gone.

The rest of it? Including the defense of Kofu? Not going to get, because we didn't ask for it.

Kofu will probably be overrun by class 3 demons. I'm sure they will just love us after this.

 

[Kinematics]

With the latest change Haman made, and fuzzy wording differences that ultimately don't really matter (the GM can tell what's being asked for), I think the following are the only functional differences left in the plans:

1) Poking the beholder. A simple difference of opinion on this one. I don't think anyone aside from Haman and myself has really weighed in on this issue, so if anyone would like to tip things one way or the other, now's the time.

2) Trade deal with 15/16. Aside from how I feel about the trade itself, I feel this is abusing our allocation, since it only uses the same 2 vets that the Safe Passage deal itself requires, while trying to negotiate for a lot of things outside what we set up arrangements for previously.

3) Opening relations with other groups. I'd prefer to stay with the standard allocation (0.5 per group) for a solid connection than a bunch of scattered attempts with no real value (plus a success penalty) for each (1 vet for 5+ groups).

4) Trade deal with Kofu. Haman has a full trade deal, and I just provide info.

5) Gossipmonger/Pet Whisperer. I used the 1 vet that I didn't put on the Kofu trade deal for these.


The only thing I really wish we could do before Tokyo would be to get Kaoru's training finished. However, even aside from being short on omakes, we don't have a free elite to pair with her.

Just realized, we need to add some fluff about Mami getting the girls together (twice? once in each house) to break out the charts and explain that Tokyo is probably going to go the way of Hong Kong if we don't do something in the next 3 months.

Explain our recruitment of Serena, etc.

Tentative plans for training for Tokyo.

"This is what we became magical girls for. To protect the people of Japan!"

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If you write up a fluff bit for that, I'll copy it over as well.

 

[Kinematics]

The rest of it? Including the defense of Kofu? Not going to get, because we didn't ask for it.

Kofu will probably be overrun by class 3 demons. I'm sure they will just love us after this.

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OK, that's a petty and baseless argument. Mami is going to discuss our plans for Tokyo with Nagoya, and that necessarily includes the point that we realized about escaping demons. However there still remain questions about positioning, information relays, notification and coordination and such, that are all part of the tactical arrangements that we'll have to hammer out in T33.

We don't have to define those this instant, because our exact plans for Tokyo are subject to change. Same problem as with contacting the Tokyo elites: there's no value in putting tactical details in our write-ups for the current plan; it just clutters the vote.

Further, assuming this negotiation succeeds, we pretty much must necessarily keep in constant contact with Nagoya to keep each other apprised of ongoing plans. That means we should have pretty much open question-and-answer options with them as we proceed with the T33 vote planning.

So making a claim like the above is just mudslinging.

 

[TheEyes]

It's also extremely frustrating that no one has explained why or how doing this could possibly be a bad thing.

Only Kinematics has worried that it could trigger the beholder to go after the scouting team.

To which my response is: GREAT! That is the very best thing that could happen.

We have teleporters there. So the scouting team can immediately escape, and we will have proven that we can lure the beholder out of Tokyo and straight into an ambush.

It could not get any better.

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If we kite the beholder to Mt. Tanzawa, it has a good chance of not going back to Tokyo. In the later case it wipes out Kofu and us before Serena even arrives, let alone all our preparations to fight it are complete.

If we're going to poke at the beholder, then let's do it next month, after our preparations to fight it are complete and Serena is on hand to fight it. If we do it now, and possibly trigger it early, there's a good chance it kills us all this month; even if it doesn't, it may not fall for the same trick twice, and we lose an easy way to take it down in one shot.

 

[Skelm]

I have to agree. If the beholder responds to us poking it, we are likely to find ourselves down a clairvoyant team.

 

[TheEyes]

I have to agree. If the beholder responds to us poking it, we are likely to find ourselves down a clairvoyant team.

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I'm not actually worried about Taya and her partner getting away; that's what Seto and her partner would be there for. We already know the beholder's interdiction field goes down if it teleports, so that's not the problem.

No, the problem here is what happens after Taya, Seto, and their probe team run. What does the beholder, now near the summit of Mt. Tanzawa, beyond the outskirts of the dying Tokyo, do after running off a group of fresh Elites, finding itself in virgin, Class 3-free territory? Does it go back to Tokyo, or does it spy Area 15 to the south-southwest, Kofu to the west, or our Fujinomiya territory to the southwest? Does it slink back to Tokyo, or does it go on a rampage, killing girls ill-prepared to fight or flee from it? If it does the later, before we are ready to counter it with Serena and all our battle plans, mostly weighted towards the end of the month, then we, and everyone in the area, are fucked.

 

[Aranfan]

Switched back to Getaway house, as there doesn't seem to be any real strong feeling for the Akiya House.

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Haha what? I think the getaway house will cripple us, and render us unable to afford expansion and recruitment in the vital initial days after Tokyo has been cleared.

I only switched to Kinematics because you said you were going to go back to the getaway house, and the pet whisperer at least makes moves to get additional income to staunch the bleeding.

 

[Elder Haman]

So making a claim like the above is just mudslinging.

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No, it's a disagreement over when we need to start talking about tactical deployments.

Some tactical decisions, like how many girls we are attacking the beholder with, etc, can be left to next turn.

Higher level tactical decisions, like how we cover the risk of demons fleeing west of Tokyo need to be addressed now. Explicitly.

I mean, I'm pretty sure Nagoya will be amenable... if we ask them early enough that they can deploy forces.

If we don't ask them though, then why wouldn't they just continue with their current plans, and not have a team available for deployment to protect Kofu when we suddenly ask them next month.

I just don't get how you can expect another nation to coordinate their battle plans with ours if we don't tell them what our plans are, and what we want them to do.

On the one hand you claim "Mami will talk to them about it" and then on the other you refuse to specify that Mami talk to them about it.

 

[Elder Haman]

If we kite the beholder to Mt. Tanzawa, it has a good chance of not going back to Tokyo. In the later case it wipes out Kofu and us before Serena even arrives, let alone all our preparations to fight it are complete.

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Hmmm... I suppose that's a good point. I think it's over estimating the risk, but I can understand that reasoning. Thank you for explaining it to me...

based on that I think I'll remove some of the more vigorous poking of the beholder...

 

[Aranfan]

I have come up with a brilliant plan to solve our money problems: Take over North Korea

 

[inverted_helix]

I have come up with a brilliant plan to solve our money problems: Take over North Korea

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I see someone has been reading the quest that inspired this one.

 

[Aranfan]

I see someone has been reading the quest that inspired this one.

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Nah, I was part of it back when it was still alive, although IIRC it died shortly after I joined.

 

[inverted_helix]

That quest was quite interesting to me, but I felt it really exaggerated the flaw I see in a lot of empire quests of things being too easy. I mean they went from controlling a 10% of Japan's magical girls to almost all of the planet's magical girls, and actually being the government of North Korea, in 16 months.

Though in fairness that quest had fighting off the Reapers as the end goal, so it was a bit higher powerscale. But still the progression was rather absurd. If the turns had been 1 year instead of 1 month it would have been a bit more reasonable.

 

[TheEyes]

Hmmm... I suppose that's a good point. I think it's over estimating the risk, but I can understand that reasoning. Thank you for explaining it to me...

based on that I think I'll remove some of the more vigorous poking of the beholder...

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It's definitely over-estimating the risk; it's very unlikely that the probe is going to result in a wandering Class 4. The thing is, the reason that the risk of a wandering Class 4 is so low is because the probability of the Class 4 responding to the probe at all is so low, an outcome that makes the probe itself unlikely to have any benefit at all. If, however, the probe does have an effect, the probability of the beholder then deciding to go walkabout is, in my opinion, far too high, given that we have no way to counter it if it does. That's why I think the whole probe idea is premature.

 

[Powerofmind]

No, the problem here is what happens after Taya, Seto, and their probe team run. What does the beholder, now near the summit of Mt. Tanzawa, beyond the outskirts of the dying Tokyo, do after running off a group of fresh Elites, finding itself in virgin, Class 3-free territory? Does it go back to Tokyo, or does it spy Area 15 to the south-southwest, Kofu to the west, or our Fujinomiya territory to the southwest? Does it slink back to Tokyo, or does it go on a rampage, killing girls ill-prepared to fight or flee from it? If it does the later, before we are ready to counter it with Serena and all our battle plans, mostly weighted towards the end of the month, then we, and everyone in the area, are fucked.

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Hmmm... I suppose that's a good point. I think it's over estimating the risk, but I can understand that reasoning. Thank you for explaining it to me...

based on that I think I'll remove some of the more vigorous poking of the beholder...

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It's definitely over-estimating the risk; it's very unlikely that the probe is going to result in a wandering Class 4. The thing is, the reason that the risk of a wandering Class 4 is so low is because the probability of the Class 4 responding to the probe at all is so low, an outcome that makes the probe itself unlikely to have any benefit at all. If, however, the probe does have an effect, the probability of the beholder then deciding to go walkabout is, in my opinion, far too high, given that we have no way to counter it if it does. That's why I think the whole probe idea is premature.

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What risk? A class 4 needs huge amounts of humans in a small area to sustain itself. It HAS to return to Tokyo, because otherwise it's a whale in a freshwater lake. It would take a few days for it to find somewhere equally dense to hunt, and it would die in those few days.

 

[TheEyes]

What risk? A class 4 needs huge amounts of humans in a small area to sustain itself. It HAS to return to Tokyo, because otherwise it's a whale in a freshwater lake. It would take a few days for it to find somewhere equally dense to hunt, and it would die in those few days.

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It's also a clairvoyant teleporter. From Mt. Tanzawa both Kofu and Fujinomiya are within scrying distance, virgin territories from its perspective since both are modest DS urban areas with no competing Class 3s.