General Exalted Thread

[EarthScorpion]

I kind of feel like 'can anyone really be worthy of this much power?' is rather a different statement than 'lol this could have happened to a thousand other schmucks'.

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Both are true. The Exaltation is a reward entirely disproportionate to the accomplishments of the Exalted - and it is grotesquely unfair because the reason you, oh Solar, got your Exaltation rather than any other potential candidate is that someone happened to die shortly before you Exalted freeing it up for you and you were at the right time for your actions to be noticed.

If someone whose name you don't even know hadn't got their head smashed in by a grand goremaul, you could have been in exactly the place and you wouldn't have gotten shit. Not from personal failings. Not from a lack of personal virtue. But because Exaltation is a lottery and sure, you buy your ticket with your heroism, but the first step of the lottery is "happening to do it when there's a free Exaltation around".

Awakening in either Mage can be argued to be something that anyone has a chance with, and there's a certain degree of fairness about it (Ascension's Avatars make it less fair, of course). Exaltation? No such luck. Sidereals and Terrestrials drew the lots already and just didn't tell you, you don't even get to play the Alchemical wheel of fortune, and the Lunars and the Solaroids rely on one of a tiny number of magic coupons being free at the time you do the qualifying deed.

And for you to do the right kind of qualifying deed, too. It doesn't matter if you have a dramatic realisation on the nature of enlightenment if there's no free Zenith and there's a Dawn who's more interested in martial skill rather than understanding of the oneness of essence.

 

[Aleph]

EarthScorpion is not saying that you don't need to be a hero to get and Exaltation. He is saying that being a hero and having that moment of great need in no way makes up for the miracle bestowed upon you. And that even if you get an exaltation, there are many other heroes who were just as worthy who didn't.

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Actually I'm saying that. But @EarthScorpion agrees.

I kind of feel like 'can anyone really be worthy of this much power?' is rather a different statement than 'lol this could have happened to a thousand other schmucks'.

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A thousand other schmucks? No.

A thousand other heroes on that same day, who - like you - would have failed or died without that power? And who - unlike you - probably did? Yes, quite possibly. Quite probably, even. You were selected by arcane logic in a shard of cosmic power, and notions of worthiness or deserving it more do not factor into it. It's unfair that you got it and they didn't, just as it would be unfair if they'd got it and you hadn't. Exaltations are vanishingly rare, pick from among the pool of heroic, exceptional candidates so inscrutably that it might as well be random, and elevate those mortals to the level where they can very reasonably say "pah, I am no mere god". Unfairness is inherent in a system like that.

 

[Cosar]

Actually I'm saying that. But @EarthScorpion agrees.

A thousand other schmucks? No.

A thousand other heroes on that same day, who - like you - would have failed or died without that power? And who - unlike you - probably did? Yes, quite possibly. Quite probably, even. You were selected by arcane logic in a shard of cosmic power, and notions of worthiness or deserving it more do not factor into it. It's unfair that you got it and they didn't, just as it would be unfair if they'd got it and you hadn't. Exaltations are vanishingly rare, pick from among the pool of heroic, exceptional candidates so inscrutably that it might as well be random, and elevate those mortals to the level where they can very reasonably say "pah, I am no mere god". Unfairness is inherent in a system like that.

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Um...what? Your reply to my post is that you don't need to be a hero, but then you immediately say that Exaltations select from those who are heros. So which is it?

 

[Aleph]

Um...what? Your reply to my post is that you don't need to be a hero, but then you immediately say that Exaltations select from those who are heros. So which is it?

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... where in my reply to you did I say that you don't need to be a hero? I was pointing out that when you quoted @SerGregness, he was asking me to expand on what I said, and that you seem to have thought that he was asking @EarthScorpion. I was the one who brought up the unfairness of the Exaltation; ES didn't weigh in until later.

And I didn't say you don't need to be a hero. I said that there are many heroes, and among those, the rarity of Exaltation is unfair in who it picks.

There is a difference between "Exaltations empower from among a pool of heroes" and "all heroes are empowered by Exaltations". The latter is fair; if you are a hero, you get an Exaltation. Heroism = reward. But that is not the case of affairs. Exaltations are vanishingly rare. You can be heroic and brave and noble and worthy and still never, ever get an Exaltation in the whole of a long and storied life. You are likely - far more likely - to never get an Exaltation than the vanishing few who do. This is not fair. The Exalts were probably not that much more heroic than you. If they were, it was by - objectively speaking - a comparatively tiny margin, if not simply a matter of timing or having an off day or a really good one. But they got world-shaking, titan-slaying, kingdom-sundering power, and you got fuck-all.

This is not fair.

That is the point.

 

[Cosar]

... where in my reply to you did I say that you don't need to be a hero? I was pointing out that when you quoted @SerGregness, he was asking me to expand on what I said, and that you seem to have thought that he was asking @EarthScorpion. I was the one who brought up the unfairness of the Exaltation; ES didn't weigh in until later.

And I didn't say you don't need to be a hero. I said that there are many heroes, and among those, the rarity of Exaltation is unfair in who it picks.

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Ah, I utterly misread both what you meant there, and who was saying what. Sorry.

Probably shouldn't get involved in discussions after 24hrs awake.

 

[Aleph]

Ah, I utterly misread both what you meant there, and who was saying what. Sorry.

Probably shouldn't get involved in discussions after 24hrs awake.

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No worries; I too have skipped words when high on lack of sleep and too many Nightcore Youtube videos.

 

[Imrix]

Any view of the king being the ultimate power is flawed, because their power comes from the nobles, and thus they can't anger them

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Just to pick up on this; as somebody running a quest that centres on a monarchical society, it's also worth pointing out that while the view of the king as ultimate power is inherently flawed, that view was nevertheless quite widespread. The idea of the king as the final authority of the realm was something heavily woven into society, even if the reality was rather more complex than that.

One of the promises that made Exalted so inviting and original was that it would sweep all that away and look cynically and hard and accurately at realistic mechanisms of how human cultures worked, and then merely add magic on top. That's far more interesting, to me, than repeating the tired cliches of Generic Western Fantasy - or alternately of repeating them and then adding a layer of dirt and rape on top, as in ASOIAF.

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This this this thisthisthisthis

No, but Creation is huge and heroes are everywhere and there are only 700 Exaltations, and most of them are being used. If you get an Exaltation, make no mistake, it is chance. There were a thousand other candidates, and you got lucky. And there are thousands of candidates every day who are just as deserving as you were at that moment, if not more so, who get unlucky because there's no Exaltation available. Exaltations are unfair. That's part of the point.

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As I once remarked, "For every hero that draws their Second Breath, a hundred worthy souls die gasping in the mud, unmourned and unremembered. Woe to the fallen world."

 

[Bursting Eagerness Soul]

So, I'm designing a longfang and its Evocations, with major emphasis on throwing and then retrieving it. How is this as an opening evocation? Overpowered? Too specific?

Spark Follows the Flame
Cost: -- (1m); Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Call the Blade

The Flashfire Lance cannot bear to be parted from its wielder. When thrown, it draws them back together. This Charm enhances any action in which the Solar attempts to retrieve the Lance after it had been thrown, adding three (3) dice to any rolls involved. Valid actions include movement towards the Lance, disarming an enemy who has picked it up, or the use of Call the Blade. Also, should the Solar be within close range of the Lance, they may spend one mote to reflexively ready it.

As a note, I'm not sure whether a flat three dice is appropriate, or if it should be replaced with something like (Essence) dice.

 

[Omicron]

So, I'm designing a longfang and its Evocations, with major emphasis on throwing and then retrieving it. How is this as an opening evocation? Overpowered? Too specific?

Spark Follows the Flame
Cost: -- (1m); Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Call the Blade

The Flashfire Lance cannot bear to be parted from its wielder. When thrown, it draws them back together. This Charm enhances any action in which the Solar attempts to retrieve the Lance after it had been thrown, adding three (3) dice to any rolls involved. Valid actions include movement towards the Lance, disarming an enemy who has picked it up, or the use of Call the Blade. Also, should the Solar be within close range of the Lance, they may spend one mote to reflexively ready it.

As a note, I'm not sure whether a flat three dice is appropriate, or if it should be replaced with something like (Essence) dice.

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You should specify whether the one-mote cost is whenever you want to add those dice, or only for the reflexive readying. If the latter, this looks fine to me.

 

[Aleph]

There was a post somewhere that had an excellent rebuttal of the inclusion of "exotic" elements in this fashion, and I wish I could remember where it was.

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Found it.

The spices were cardamom and cinnamon, you silly fool, and the children in your hometown are hungrier. The songbird was a woodlark, and the only exotic thing there was you.

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Edit: Linked it instead.

 

[Bursting Eagerness Soul]

You should specify whether the one-mote cost is whenever you want to add those dice, or only for the reflexive readying. If the latter, this looks fine to me.

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It is definitely the latter. Do you think that the three dice is too powerful for a permanent, or is it situational enough to get away with it?

 

[Dragerosl238]

I'm going to play both my first Exalted and first 3e game soon, does anyone have any advice? How many dice do I need, advice for creating PCs of the different Solar castes and/or or in general, tips for the storyteller, etc.? Also, what's everyone's favorite thing about 3e so far?

 

[Hazard]

I'm going to play both my first Exalted and first 3e game soon, does anyone have any advice? How many dice do I need, advice for creating PCs of the different Solar castes and/or or in general, tips for the storyteller, etc.? Also, what's everyone's favorite thing about 3e so far?

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You want at minimum 20 d10s. General advice for the attributes and skills is that you want to max the dicepools you expect to roll most often during chargen and neglect the rest. This is because during play you are subject to mounting costs as you become more capable in a single skill or attribute, but the costs are flat during chargen.

With minimal optimising this is easily 20 points of experience 'won' this way.

Any Storyteller with sense and an interest in balance will instead either provide a flat cost for character advancement during play or use experience during chargen.

Always always have at least 1 attack and 1 combat skill for your Solar, and invested at minimum 4 or 5 Charms in it. Creation is a harsh place and you need to be able to defend yourself.

 

[Kaiya]

I'm going to play both my first Exalted and first 3e game soon, does anyone have any advice? How many dice do I need, advice for creating PCs of the different Solar castes and/or or in general, tips for the storyteller, etc.? Also, what's everyone's favorite thing about 3e so far?

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Depends on the game. I tend to prefer very specialized characters. Generally, I'd say have a pre-Charm dice pool of at least eight. Less than that, I think, is asking for trouble. My favorite thing about Ex3 is Sorcery, hands down.

You want at minimum 20 d10s. General advice for the attributes and skills is that you want to max the dicepools you expect to roll most often during chargen and neglect the rest. This is because during play you are subject to mounting costs as you become more capable in a single skill or attribute, but the costs are flat during chargen.

With minimal optimising this is easily 20 points of experience 'won' this way.

Any Storyteller with sense and an interest in balance will instead either provide a flat cost for character advancement during play or use experience during chargen.

Always always have at least 1 attack and 1 combat skill for your Solar, and invested at minimum 4 or 5 Charms in it. Creation is a harsh place and you need to be able to defend yourself.

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No, I disagree with this, this is wrong. An Excellency is more than enough if your circle has a solid combatant or two. You don't need to invest that heavily in combat if you aren't playing a combat person. Also, just use a diceroller. Like this: Exalted Dice Roller 1.0 by Mike Tilly

Have that open on a laptop. Cheaper and easier than throwing dice around.

 

[Omicron]

You want at minimum 20 d10s. General advice for the attributes and skills is that you want to max the dicepools you expect to roll most often during chargen and neglect the rest. This is because during play you are subject to mounting costs as you become more capable in a single skill or attribute, but the costs are flat during chargen.

With minimal optimising this is easily 20 points of experience 'won' this way.

Any Storyteller with sense and an interest in balance will instead either provide a flat cost for character advancement during play or use experience during chargen.

Always always have at least 1 attack and 1 combat skill for your Solar, and invested at minimum 4 or 5 Charms in it. Creation is a harsh place and you need to be able to defend yourself.

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I got pretty far with Excellent Strike and Dipping Swallow as my only combat investments.

I've also never been in an Ex3 game which houserules bp/XP, and I've been in... four games so far, I think, each one run by a different person. "Any storyteller with sense" is a vast overstatement.

My primary Ex3 advice is "don't sweat it and think critically about things." Common sense is a virtue in RPGs.

 

[notthepenguins]

No, I disagree with this, this is wrong. An Excellency is more than enough if your circle has a solid combatant or two. You don't need to invest that heavily in combat if you aren't playing a combat person.

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The book itself says take 2-5 combat charms to "stand up in the face of basic supernatural opposition" as long as there will be any combat in your game, so I'm not sure this assessment is exactly accurate.

Assuming they know the balance of their own game system, at least, which seems kinda probable.

 

[Vanigo]

So, I'm designing a longfang and its Evocations, with major emphasis on throwing and then retrieving it. How is this as an opening evocation? Overpowered? Too specific?

Spark Follows the Flame
Cost: -- (1m); Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Call the Blade

The Flashfire Lance cannot bear to be parted from its wielder. When thrown, it draws them back together. This Charm enhances any action in which the Solar attempts to retrieve the Lance after it had been thrown, adding three (3) dice to any rolls involved. Valid actions include movement towards the Lance, disarming an enemy who has picked it up, or the use of Call the Blade. Also, should the Solar be within close range of the Lance, they may spend one mote to reflexively ready it.

As a note, I'm not sure whether a flat three dice is appropriate, or if it should be replaced with something like (Essence) dice.

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This is really, really bad. If it's intended to be thrown a lot, just give it the same automatic boomerang effect as normal artifact throwing weapons.

Unless the goal is to use retrieving your weapon as a mechanical handle for later evocations - "shoot fire at people when you pick your spear back up" or something. But that would be really hard to balance against the inherent action economy penalty (or bonus, if you can just use Call the Blade immediately after throwing the thing to do whatever it is), and this charm in particular would still be much too weak. Three free charm dice is a significant bonus, but Call The Blade is pretty easy anyway, and generally makes the other options irrelevant.

 

[azoicennead]

I've also never been in an Ex3 game which houserules bp/XP, and I've been in... four games so far, I think, each one run by a different person. "Any storyteller with sense" is a vast overstatement.

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Nothing the BP/XP split does is worth doing. It should be houseruled away.
Well, it should have been removed from the base rules, but since it wasn't it should be houseruled away.

 

[Kaiya]

Nothing the BP/XP split does is worth doing. It should be houseruled away.
Well, it should have been removed from the base rules, but since it wasn't it should be houseruled away.

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Good. Do that in your game, and stop telling everyone else that what they do is flawed when it works fucking fine.

Actually, serious question. Have you actually played in an Exalted game yet?

The book itself says take 2-5 combat charms to "stand up in the face of basic supernatural opposition" as long as there will be any combat in your game, so I'm not sure this assessment is exactly accurate.

Assuming they know the balance of their own game system, at least, which seems kinda probable.

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Yes, if you're planning on fighting a supernatural opponent one on one. If you're not, an Excellency and a Charm should suffice just fine, or even _no_ investment, if you really want to go pure social/whatever. I mean, you won't be able to help in combat, but if you're okay with that, no problem.

 

[Anasurimbor]

I'm going to play both my first Exalted and first 3e game soon, does anyone have any advice? How many dice do I need, advice for creating PCs of the different Solar castes and/or or in general, tips for the storyteller, etc.? Also, what's everyone's favorite thing about 3e so far?

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The core book says that Ox-Body Technique is a solid choice to help you survive. It's not like it would lie about that, right?

Well... at least not in two three successive editions, surely?

 

[landcollector]

Have you actually played in an Exalted game yet?

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I'm pretty sure he's recounted moments from a game he is involved in in the thread, so the answer to this would be yes.

 

[notthepenguins]

I heard that Ox-Body Technique is a solid choice...

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Funny thing is, it actually is this time around.

Yes, if you're planning on fighting a supernatural opponent one on one. If you're not, an Excellency and a Charm should suffice just fine, or even _no_ investment, if you really want to go pure social/whatever. I mean, you won't be able to help in combat, but if you're okay with that, no problem.

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Man, I'm quoting the book itself, which says "If your Storyteller is planning on including any fights in their game, you should invest in Charms to survive them" and recommends 2-5. Not "If you're gonna 1v1 some raksha," but if there are planned fights included at all. 3E has a pretty explicit level of baseline combat efficacy it expects everyone to have.

 

[Kaiya]

Funny thing is, it actually is this time around.


Man, I'm quoting the book itself, which says "If your Storyteller is planning on including any fights in their game, you should invest in Charms to survive them" and recommends 2-5. Not "If you're gonna 1v1 some raksha," but if there are planned fights included at all. 3E has a pretty explicit level of baseline combat efficacy it expects everyone to have.

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Yeah, fair. I'd err more on the two side, honestly, if you really want your social/investigate/whatever person, though.

 

[Dragerosl238]

Funny thing is, it actually is this time around.


Man, I'm quoting the book itself, which says "If your Storyteller is planning on including any fights in their game, you should invest in Charms to survive them" and recommends 2-5. Not "If you're gonna 1v1 some raksha," but if there are planned fights included at all. 3E has a pretty explicit level of baseline combat efficacy it expects everyone to have.

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Yeah, I heard overspecializing your character is a bad idea too. Why is Ox Body only a good idea this time around?

 

[Sucal]

Yeah, I heard overspecializing your character is a bad idea too. Why is Ox Body only a good idea this time around?

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Because in 2nd edition it didn't matter if you had 2 health levels or a hundred health levels.

If you got hit, you were fucked. Doing massive massive damage was easy, and single tag by a 'rocket' was lethal. Death Spirals with wound penalties was a thing. Spending your XP to ensure you had your paranoia combo was much more efficient.