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General Exalted Thread

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Wasn't there a charm that gives you a single success if you are underground and if there is wind blowing? I think it was 2m cost or so.

But ya, I don't mind waiting for the release but a lot of the charms were kinda boring and repetitive.
 
Yzarc said:
Wasn't there a charm that gives you a single success if you are underground and if there is wind blowing? I think it was 2m cost or so.

But ya, I don't mind waiting for the release but a lot of the charms were kinda boring and repetitive.
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Living Pulse Perception, one of the infamously bad ones. Which actually has the enhanced touch charm as a prerequisite, so it's effectively personal radar. I actually quite like it on that basis, it's just that it could really benefit from a bit of clarification on what it is intended to allow, since it's only really worthwhile in a combo that's not all that obvious at first glance.
 
C.o.S.a.R said:
Couldn't you just collapse those charms into one charm, too? Like, just a charm that let you reroll one number per roll? Because it sounds odd that you would have multiple charms that are so close in function.
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... see, now I'm tempted to write a General Charm that's basically "when you fulfil the specified niche condition, you can reroll [number]s" and go through the book to see how much wordcount they could have saved by writing that and then just referencing it with the niche condition and number for every dice trick charm that fits it. I figure three, maybe four templates like that could probably account for 10-20% of the Charms in the leak.
 
Living Pulse Perception is a great example of what I'd describe as a "Charm-Tax" or, if one wants to be generous, a "Specialist charm".
It's effect is pretty simple: In any place where there is no significant wind (enclosed spaces, dense foliage etc.), the character gets a free success on Awareness and Join Battle rolls as a free, permanent effect.

That's not bad, but it's probably not something you want to spend a charm purchase on. It basically spares you two motes you would otherwise use on your Awareness Excellency, but only under certain conditions. So you may want it if you're playing a campaign that is often indoors, and where hidden combatants are a major concern.
Or you may want it because it's a prerequisite for Roused Dragon Detection - a charm that guarantees that you can make an attack against a hidden foe, no matter how well-hidden they are. In addition to auto-penetrating any stealth for that one attack, it also forces the hidden opponent to move to another hiding location. That's a pretty nasty charm (and I actually like it since it does not completely negate all stealth, just exposes someone in stealth to one attack) which allows you to Do a New Thing, so I can see people wanting that.

Hence, Charm-Taxes. Whether that is good design space is of course quite debatable, but it's apparently a thing in Exalted 3E.
 
Aleph said:
... see, now I'm tempted to write a General Charm that's basically "when you fulfil the specified niche condition, you can reroll [number]s" and go through the book to see how much wordcount they could have saved by writing that and then just referencing it with the niche condition and number for every dice trick charm that fits it. I figure three, maybe four templates like that could probably account for 10-20% of the Charms in the leak.
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Yes, a lot of charms, especially the rerollers, could have easily been rolled into one charm with repurchases that enhanced the effect or even just be attached as upgrades ala the Infernal Charm tree. Or even certain parts of the Solar tree in 2E.

Why they didn't use the better charm trees as inspiration just boggles me.
 
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Aleph said:
... see, now I'm tempted to write a General Charm that's basically "when you fulfil the specified niche condition, you can reroll [number]s" and go through the book to see how much wordcount they could have saved by writing that and then just referencing it with the niche condition and number for every dice trick charm that fits it. I figure three, maybe four templates like that could probably account for 10-20% of the Charms in the leak.
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That's almost certainly my plan if I like some of the basic mechanics of the system.
 
C.o.S.a.R said:
That's almost certainly my plan if I like some of the basic mechanics of the system.
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I've found that ripping out some of the more stupid charms or making them a single charm with a repurchase cascade, makes the game much more bearable. But there isn't much I can say about Crafting system other than that its bullshit.
 
Need more help/advice. 2E Sorcery is... really, really bad, so I'm trying to backport 3E Sorcery into 2E. My problem is that 2E Infernals gain their sorcery through Sorcerous Enlightenment of Yozi Charm while 3E gains it by Sorcerous Initiation/Patronage of Whatever. I've got ideas on how to handle it, but I'd like to hear the opinions of the more enlightened members before I commit on a system hack.

Treat each Sorcerous Enlightenemt of Yozi charm as an Initiation Style with the pros and cons. So, if say... Sorcerous Initiaion of TED, you get the mix of... Mara's(?) Gift, the restrictions of Sorcerous Enlightenment of TED, and some other benefits.

You can also take other Initiations so you're not restricted, but you would need to design more styles. Normally, this would be an XP sink, but I'm using some of the house rules that @Alexander89 uses for his quest.
 
Kiriel said:
Need more help/advice. 2E Sorcery is... really, really bad, so I'm trying to backport 3E Sorcery into 2E. My problem is that 2E Infernals gain their sorcery through Sorcerous Enlightenment of Yozi Charm while 3E gains it by Sorcerous Initiation/Patronage of Whatever. I've got ideas on how to handle it, but I'd like to hear the opinions of the more enlightened members before I commit on a system hack.

Treat each Sorcerous Enlightenemt of Yozi charm as an Initiation Style with the pros and cons. So, if say... Sorcerous Initiaion of TED, you get the mix of... Mara's(?) Gift, the restrictions of Sorcerous Enlightenment of TED, and some other benefits.

You can also take other Initiations so you're not restricted, but you would need to design more styles. Normally, this would be an XP sink, but I'm using some of the house rules that @Alexander89 uses for his quest.
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A thing to consider is that the Infernals are being powered by the guys who invented Sorcery. The Primordials were the ones to discover/create sorcery and as such they are the most skilled at it, with only them and the Solars and think Third Circle Demons, their souls, being capable of using all the three circles. And they created Creation, the rules and laws that govern it are of their making, and as such I think that the Green Sun Princes should have an easier time with Sorcery than anyone else.

An idea for the Infernals to have an edge in Sorcery is that they don't need to roll to gather motes, they can instead convert their normal motes of essence into sorceross motes on a one to one basis without a roll. Of course having a means of generating more Sorcereus motes is always an advantage, so of course they would try forge pacts or create artifacts that allow them to gather more with less cost.

The Yozi initiations are powerful as they are, with only a few restrictions on their usage, they greatly enhance a spell. For example Malfeas adds half of a destructive spells damage to it's base power, so Death of Obsidian Butterflies, already one of the more powerful offensive spells in the terrestrial circle, gains 4 levels of lethal damage to bring it up to a total of 12L overall. Not to mention that there is no skill requirements on the Infernals sorcery, so an illiterate barbarian Slayer is just as capable of initiation into Sorcery as a Occult 5 Twilight.

Now, as for the pacts and such that you can use to gain Sorcerous motes, remember what an Infernal is and where they are; Hell is filled with demons of nearly limitless amount, and more than a few of them are as strong or stronger than Mara. And remember that Mara is a Second Circle Demon, and her initiation is already pretty powerful as it is, a Third Circle Demon could provide knowledge and powers that make her's look soft.

And I won't even start on what a Yozi could grant, if you were stupid or brave enough to directly draw it's attention.
 
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My thought on the Charm wordcount is that just removing the pointless sentence of fluff text at the beginning of every. single. charm. could have cut down on that tremendously.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Eh, in general I like 3e, and I think many of the systems are a significant improvement over what we currently have. The charm bloat is an unfortunate problem, but not an insurmountable one, and I suspect that I'll still enjoy the game once I start playing.
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Yeah, I'd agree with this. My general stance on 3e is that it definitely has problems, but those problems are less than the problems 2e has, both in scope and severity. You can fix or at least ameliorate problems like charm bloat with measures such as the one proposed by Aleph, but lethality and paranoia combat require drastically larger solutions, with commensurate difficulty.

I'd call 3e better than 2e. Most of the systems are better and, where they aren't, they're more fixable. But two years of hype have not done it any favours, and as broken as 2e is, it's also fairly comfortable for a lot of us because we've adopted system hacks that work for us.
 
greensun said:
A thing to consider is that the Infernals are being powered by the guys who invented Sorcery. The Primordials were the ones to discover/create sorcery and as such they are the most skilled at it, with only them and the Solars and think Third Circle Demons, their souls, being capable of using all the three circles. And they created Creation, the rules and laws that govern it are of their making, and as such I think that the Green Sun Princes should have an easier time with Sorcery than anyone else.

An idea for the Infernals to have an edge in Sorcery is that they don't need to roll to gather motes, they can instead convert their normal motes of essence into sorceross motes on a one to one basis without a roll. Of course having a means of generating more Sorcereus motes is always an advantage, so of course they would try forge pacts or create artifacts that allow them to gather more with less cost.

The Yozi initiations are powerful as they are, with only a few restrictions on their usage, they greatly enhance a spell. For example Malfeas adds half of a destructive spells damage to it's base power, so Death of Obsidian Butterflies, already one of the more powerful offensive spells in the terrestrial circle, gains 4 levels of lethal damage to bring it up to a total of 12L overall. Not to mention that there is no skill requirements on the Infernals sorcery, so an illiterate barbarian Slayer is just as capable of initiation into Sorcery as a Occult 5 Twilight.

Now, as for the pacts and such that you can use to gain Sorcerous motes, remember what an Infernal is and where they are; Hell is filled with demons of nearly limitless amount, and more than a few of them are as strong or stronger than Mara. And remember that Mara is a Second Circle Demon, and her initiation is already pretty powerful as it is, a Third Circle Demon could provide knowledge and powers that make her's look soft.

And I won't even start on what a Yozi could grant, if you were stupid or brave enough to directly draw it's attention.
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Thinking of Mara as just a 2nd circle is kinda misleading with regards to sorcery. One of Mara's themes is "gifts which are actually traps that will screw you over in the long run." It's implied she was actually the one to invent sorcerous initiation and guide Brigid, as one of her three big "explosive gift bag" plays. (Black Claw style being another, with the third left open)
 
To be more accurate, I will have it in an hour, when I can borrow the actual computer from my family and download it there. I can transfer things onto my pad (which I use for all my internet-based needs) easily enough, but actually downloading them directly from DrivethruRPG has never worked.

Argh, the fates taunt me with one final delay...
 
My first impression: It's pretty, but given the length of time this has been stewing, I'm unimpressed when I look in the Table of Contents and see obvious typos ("SnakeStyle", "Sorcerous Workings4") and missing entries (where's Archery?) literally within 10 seconds of opening the PDF.

Also, the character sheet provided in the book remains as useless as the 2e version.
 
Typos aside (please gather those and send them in, that's in part the purpose of the backer-PDF after all), I'll comment on stuff that's different from the leak too:

- Artifacts now have more benefits than Evocations. Some example grant nice benefits on attunement. Beloved Adorei for example forms an intimacy towards it's wielder, the stronger it is the larger the benefit (+1 Accuracy, later one automatic success on all withering damage rolls, finally the intimacy becomes unbreakable).
- At first glance, there apparently was some charm-consolidation. Based on counting though, I might be mistaken.
 
Serafina said:
Typos aside (please gather those and send them in, that's in part the purpose of the backer-PDF after all), I'll comment on stuff that's different from the leak too:

- Artifacts now have more benefits than Evocations. Some example grant nice benefits on attunement. Beloved Adorei for example forms an intimacy towards it's wielder, the stronger it is the larger the benefit (+1 Accuracy, later one automatic success on all withering damage rolls, finally the intimacy becomes unbreakable).
- At first glance, there apparently was some charm-consolidation. Based on counting though, I might be mistaken.
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Integrity was buffed pretty nicely. There's also a Bridge keyword that lets you qualify for certain charms without buying the rest of the tree. You can, for example, buy the meditation charms in Integrity without needing to get the social defense stuff if you have a bunch of martial arts charms instead.

I'm disappointed that War still has nothing over Essence 3 though. >.<
 
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Solar Charms aren't necessarily a known commodity in the world of Exalted. It may be that they don't exist.
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Simply put, we talk about Charms as power and magic and techniques, but it may be that the Solars are unaware of such codifications.
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Charms are a way of describing the Solar's capacity for mythic feats and incredible actions, but they only exist as a codification to help describe the Solars themselves.
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Eh? Some consistency would be nice.

Some other random things that caught my eye:
- Divine Mantle in Integrity. Spirit Charms for everyone!
- That Goddamn "You tell me" sidebar still existing in Linguistics. What the hell?
- Unstoppable Magnus Approach still having exactly the same stupid with a sidebar telling you not to do the thing the Charm exists for.
- Neat art on page 430.
- Best Exalt on page 633.
 
Were the mon and High Realm names of the Great Houses published in previous editions? Cause they are on page 68 and I don't remember seeing them before.
 
samdamandias said:
What to they have outside of combat? Does their AoE buffs make clerks just as good at running the country as it makes soldiers at fighting?
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Probably not, but it'd depend on what the Exalts were actually made to do, in this setting. If they're the original "supersoldiers of the gods" design, it's very unlikely, because their buffs were based around fighting, in an army where logistics amounted to "get these guys to a healer".

...Or "oh *beep* our Solar is dead." But you can understand the difficulty of preparing for that.
Good question, though.
Most assassins in Exalted will neither be invisible or intangible. A "See Invisible Things" power doesn't let you find the person hiding behind a bush, and if it does, then you start to have system problems.
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Exalted has a terrible system, or so I've been led to believe. Besides, an aura of True Sight to defend against demonic assassins is kind of cool.
Man, what?

Again, what do Lunars get outside of combat?
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Access to basic Anima tools, a couple of healing abilities, and, perhaps most pertinently, any Skills they can copy. Copied Charms, too, if I keep that.
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

HAVE YOU NOT READ ANY OF THE COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW HARD ECLIPSEOID CHARMSHARE MAKES BALANCE?
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No. I'm familiar with (large parts of) the fluff, but wasn't really exposed to the mechanical problems.
Good name or theme for a charm, but given what most of the craters came from, this charm sounds more like a defend other+counterattack charm. Meteoric Interception Method sounds nice and evocative, don't you think?
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Thank you, I'd sort of had a similar idea, but was busy almost all day yesterday. The main reason I'd wanted Charm Copying was to allow (expensive) ways to fight armies of Essence users, so maybe just fluff it as part of their Perfect Defense?
I do like the idea of a "cool powers for permanent wounds" thing, though. How terribly difficult to unbreak is that?
Again, this is pretty cool, but can I make a sailboat out of my anima? What about a warstrider? How much does it cost to shift my anima from one form to another?
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Yes, yes, and not much. I think the real limit is that they have to find them and add them to their libraries. (And maybe pay health levels for the free/cheap summon without a model version.)
Those charms had better not be counting excellencies, and I sure hope they aren't tied to abilities, because you've just made it so that if a DB wants anything that wasn't locked in at chargen, they need Sorcery and Martial Arts like crazy.
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Gameplay wise, it's probably a bad choice. Fluffwise, I like the idea that the guys who got their powers from the Genetic Lottery are limited to those powers.
DBs can be fun to play.
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Just a mission statement.
The issue is if you're running a mixed splat game, but you've made it so that DBs are locked to a single path of advancement without investing heavily in Sorcery and MA.
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I'll note that I'm probably using the term "Charms" broadly. Not many dicetricks, just basic powers, like "I spend X amount of Essence to give myself rapid swimming/firebreath/aimbotting skills/whatever", with a lot of room for stunting. And there's going to be a skew towards permanent or semipermanent ones, too.
I also note you left out the Sidereals. And what of the other Solaroid splats?
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Hadn't thought about the Sidereals at the time, but I do have some ideas now. Same for Abyssals. Infernals will probably take a bit longer, because they seem like they'd need individual tailoring to each Yozi. No "no, really, Solars are so good we'll all take one, even if the entire usurper pantheon made their own Exalts, doing that ourselves would be effort" here.
At least, not twice.

I'll start the writeup for the other two Celestial types now.
 
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