There is no possible way for a mere role playing game to accurately model the complexity of human thought, emotion, and social interaction. The fact that Linguistics is not a significant part of the social mechanics should already be an indicator that Exalted isn't going to be doing so, imo.

I for one think the the removal of Virtues did wonders for the game's verisimilitude. Virtues encompassed too many ideas and behaviors at once, imo, and removing them allows nuance that wasn't possible previously. For example, using Virtues, you couldn't have a high Temperance character who was unflinchingly fair and even-handed without the baggage of asteticism and not lying. And I do mean baggage; I think that high levels of Virtue should have drawbacks, I think that's a good thing. But I want those drawbacks to be ones that make sense for the character, and not ones that got tacked on by the game. I want my the drawback of my character's high Valor to be that he rides headlong into danger even knowing that it might mean his death, not that he can't handle it when people insult him or is unable to turn down challenges.
 
Last edited:
The virtues were always harmful nonsense, because no one understood what most of them meant, because they in fact were an extremely poor basis for categorizing human tendencies.

"Big Five" and similar personality traits should not be assumed to be immutable or, to the degree that they are, should be below the resolution of the system. You don't need a canonical list of standard principles that everyone has a rating in; in fact, doing so basically guarantees subsuming individual characters into those ratings.

Also "getting rid of Virtues means you have problematic views about fascism" is, shockingly, only the second weirdest inferential leap I've seen in this thread.
 
I'm trying to think up a group name for orphaned mortal/yet-to-Exalt children in Heaven who struggle to find the necessities for human life in a city that has no real need for them. They're barely managing to survive on unimaginably wonderful foods by doing odd jobs for desperate gods. Some of them have hired themselves out as little prayer engines who try to squeeze as many rituals and prayers as they possibly can into their lives to get scraps of pay from desperate gods looking for even a tiny personal cult. Others are the servants of minor gods to poor to afford anything but the cheapest labor heaven has to offer.

On their salaries they could easily earn a bag full of jewels and gold or a set of paintings which would make a mortal master break their brushes in shame but its hard to scrounge up enough money for food because gods don't normally eat and don't grow food. They have to earn quintessence and get it crafted into food and water which is an unusual specialty in Heaven and the gods doing it are fleecing them for every penny. They're starving on the finest foods and wines that would make a king weep.

I'm thinking of going with the Empty Bellied but I'm open to other possible terms.

Hrm, like YCMV and stuff so this isn't intended as gospel or anything so much as just My Thoughts Me Personally on the subject. And as a kinda clarification/context I really do love the idea of Yu-Shan having, like, slums and shit built onto its slopes where the whole foundation of the celestial city is just riddled with displaced gods and a sort of shadow economy and while access to Heaven directly is strictly controlled access to the surrounding boroughs is less so and from there there's ways in around the Celestial Lions. 'Cause it's a fun juxtaposition y'know? This glittering metropolis where, theoretically, nobody wants for anything surrounded by divine squalor and misery except the boundaries between the two are so much thinner than the walls or the Lion-guarded gates. So that's where some of this is coming from.

I think if you're going to do humans-in-Yu Shan you could definitely take a page from Compass Malfeas and it's notes on prayer-slaves. Getting even the narrative equivalent of a dot of Cult is no small thing, especially for a relatively weaker God and in terms of labor the "market" of Heaven is glutted by gods whose domains were destroyed by the Twin Troubles or who fled Creation in the face of the Rakshasa advance, the Contagion, and the rising Dead. It's social support system, such as it is, is strained beyond all real workability and @EarthScorpion mined some pretty great stuff out of that with the God of Heavenly Franchising employing displaced deities to run his !McDonald's and hot chocolate food carts.

So it's a situation where divine labor is dirt cheap and importing humans is probably strictly controlled due to a mix of writ ("Yu-Shan is for the gods") and politics ("Fuck if I want my enemies to be able to just move a whole religion up here"). But it's super personally profitable so it's going to be happening anyway so like...humans in Yu-Shan occupy this weird vulnerable/valuable position I would think. Their presence is, strictly speaking, illegal unless you can prove they're, like, your quarter-goodblooded nephew three times removed (and there's probably a roaring trade in giving mortals cover documents too) and they can be deported/executed/eaten on basically a whim without anyone coming down on you since they technically weren't here anyway. But on the flip side they also provide a deeply useful service that can't be performed by wage-slave gods and if you keep them healthy and relatively happy they'll do it better so...

You probably have prayer-dens of varying qualities on the slopes of the mountain with really posh, swanky places inside the city itself, with commensurate levels of attention and service. And if you fuck with the workers the bouncers will break your arms but also the workers have fairly little say in their futures and also have to be pretty adept in a variety of rites and rituals. And it's more the really wealthy/lucky gods who have a handful of human attendants who give them personal, undiluted worship. And humans who end up in Yu-Shan without the benefit of a personal patron have to dodge both the Lions and gods who would love to press them into service.

(The metaphor here being more, like, indentured workers/hosts and hostesses rather than chattel slavery or skeevy sex shit I mean.)
 
Last edited:
(The metaphor here being more, like, indentured workers/hosts and hostesses rather than chattel slavery or skeevy sex shit I mean.)
To be fair it does read as a mix of all those. The 'Prayer Houses' are disturbingly reminiscent of brothels and it wouldn't suprise me if they often were. Meanwhile Mortals, or their children, essential have no real way ro establish citizenship for themselves leaving them at the mercy of the Gods so it makes sense that once a Mortal becomes part of a Prayer House neither they nor their children leave.
 
Hrm, like YCMV and stuff so this isn't intended as gospel or anything so much as just My Thoughts Me Personally on the subject. And as a kinda clarification/context I really do love the idea of Yu-Shan having, like, slums and shit built onto its slopes where the whole foundation of the celestial city is just riddled with displaced gods and a sort of shadow economy and while access to Heaven directly is strictly controlled access to the surrounding boroughs is less so and from there there's ways in around the Celestial Lions. 'Cause it's a fun juxtaposition y'know? This glittering metropolis where, theoretically, nobody wants for anything surrounded by divine squalor and misery except the boundaries between the two are so much thinner than the walls or the Lion-guarded gates. So that's where some of this is coming from.

I think someone said a while ago that Yu Shan is basically Washington DC in terms of "extreme wealth, centre of power" interspersed with "shocking poverty". And said that it has homeless gods sleeping on park benches in front of grand monuments of the victory over the P
Primordials.

And man, I just <3 that description.
 
There is no possible way for a mere role playing game to accurately model the complexity of human thought, emotion, and social interaction. The fact that Linguistics is not a significant part of the social mechanics should already be an indicator that Exalted isn't going to be doing so, imo.
"It can't be done perfectly" reads like an excuse for not trying. It's being done, roles are being played, so there's still the open question of whether any given alteration to the rules is an improvement or a hindrance. In practical terms, then, a specific example. How difficult do you think it should be to persuade someone like Peleps Deled to betray the Immaculate Order? on a scale of :
  1. Quick and easy for anyone competent
  2. Difficult/tedious but plausible
  3. Theoretically possible without magic
  4. Definitely requires at least one miracle
  5. Truly impossible, absurd to even attempt
On that same scale, how difficult do you think it should be to teach such an individual true humility, and kindness toward all living things, on a lasting basis?

As for Linguistics being a significant part of the social mechanics, I'm admittedly not as familiar with 3e, but would you say that Appearance had a significant role in 2e social combat? Lot of people complained about it being overpowered, since relative Appearance modifies MDVs instead of adding to the attack roll so it's effectively worth twice as much... but then Linguistics provides the same benefit to written social influence as Appearance does in person.
 
I think I've finally worked out what it is about 3e's social influence system, particularly the abolishment of Virtues, that gets under my skin so bad. It's saying that literally everything is socially constructed, that a "blank slate" personality is the default. Over the course of a sufficiently long string of essentially ordinary conversations (no soul mutilation or mind-altering drugs or whatever) someone's Intimacies could potentially be restructured to the point that their personality was entirely unrecognizable. Immutable core identity seems to have been mostly outsourced to custom charmsets, leaving mortals SOL.
How do you propose to do this, mechanically?
 
So, if I'm parsing your sarcasm correctly.
You aren't, but it looks like I'm going to have to dig through this on account of you asserting a rash of ever more fantastic inferences as regards my actual position.
you're claiming that removal of virtues from the system results in a more immersive, more psychologically realistic game experience?[1]​ And, by further implication, that virtues do not correspond to any real psychological phenomenon[2]​ that the "big five" personality traits are bullshit,[3]​ that liberal vs. conservative politics is essentially founded on bullshit,[4]​ that fascism is a passing fad rather than a predictable disease,[5]​ that any philosophy of virtue ethics is bullshit,[6]​ introspection with the goal of self-improvement (in a moral rather than material sense) is bullshit,[7]​ and anyone interested in any of those fields, or claiming to seek (not even to already have available, but merely admit the potential existence of) universal moral truths in general, is lying or deluded.[8]​
  1. Clearly. Virtues as presented aggregated a staggeringly broad range of activities and traits into four categories, then stated that a character must necessarily adhere to one of those four categories and all the broad range of traits that the category embodied or else constantly spend willpower and gain Limit (psychological stress) whenever the player wished to not play a character who expressed all the traits of said category.
  2. Of course they don't. The words used to describe them have meaning and are valid descriptors, but the categories they embodied in Exalted 2e were as far from real psychology as it gets.
  3. The "big 5" isn't a prescriptive or deductive analysis of personality. It's literally a linguistic regression of how we describe personality in ourselves and others, and isn't even very good at that. So yes, trying to overextend it (and its siblings) from its descriptive role ends up being bullshit.
  4. I don't even know what you're trying to argue, and frankly I'm not interested in entertaining it.
  5. Wow, neat soundbite. Pass again.
  6. Virtue ethics is a fascinating source of philosophy. I often disagree with the axioms used, but I'd hardly call it bullshit as a whole.
  7. By that same token, "bullshit" is not how I'd describe an attempt to change oneself. After all, if we can be changed from the outside, we must also be changeable from the inside.
  8. Tsk, tsk. Again with these loaded terms. As it so happens I'm of the firm opinion as there being no such thing as universal moral truths, but I'm perfectly unwilling to speculate on the interiority or integrity of individuals who wish to study morality as though it were a science and not a fantasy.
If that is in fact your position - and I do realize I'm inferring rather a lot from just eight words - then I must say I disagree. I think the removal of Virtues, as a standardized character trait with variable but thematically consistent benefits and drawbacks, was an overall loss to the game's verisimilitude.
That's nice.
Do you have an actual argument proving that vast negative assertion, or have you simply never met anyone in real life with a 3+ in Compassion or Temperance?
This is dumb. First, you literally suggest that I must prove a negative without first proving your own assertion, then suggest a rather ridiculous inference about my lived experience. But just fyi, I've never met any one individual straight from the second Edition of Exalted the Roleplaying Game by White Wolf. I have however met a great many actual people.
 
Last edited:
To the extent that universal human experiences are acknowledged, they're implicitly dismissed as petty and insignificant. An impassioned appeal to charity, compassion, justice, and the common dignity of all sapient beings? All that, and a nickel, might get you a cup of coffee, without a pre-existing intimacy to support it. Instead of epic culture-heroes, Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Modern Epic there's a sickening undercurrent of postmodern nihilism.

An impassioned appeal to charity, compassion, etc, will play on an Intimacy for most people. At least most human people; I wouldn't try it on a Raksha.

No clue what postmodern nihilism has to do with anything.

...have you simply never met anyone in real life with a 3+ in Compassion or Temperance?

No, of course not. Real people don't have game stats.

I am, in some ways, a very temperate person. I don't smoke or use drugs of any kind, I don't drink alcohol or coffee or anything sugary, I live frugally, I value my honesty. I've always been like that. The description of Temperance would have you believe that that I'm easily capable of swallowing my anger; I'm not. I'm actually really bad at backing down (not news to most of you). And when it comes to some things, like sleeping, I have remarkably little self-control.

Each virtue is a grab bag of semi-related traits that don't necessarily imply each other.

More to the point, Virtues aren't really connected to the deeply-rooted things that social influence has such a hard time changing. An uptight person can be talked into loosening up, a compassionate person can be made jaded by harsh experiences, a dissolute wastrel can be made to pull themself together, and a callous person can be taught to care. Not always and not easily, but it's certainly easier than turning an extrovert into an introvert.

If you wanted to systematise personality traits that go deeper than even Defining Intimacies, you wouldn't do it with Virtues.

To be fair it does read as a mix of all those. The 'Prayer Houses' are disturbingly reminiscent of brothels and it wouldn't suprise me if they often were. Meanwhile Mortals, or their children, essential have no real way ro establish citizenship for themselves leaving them at the mercy of the Gods so it makes sense that once a Mortal becomes part of a Prayer House neither they nor their children leave.

I'd expect prayer houses to be closed down often enough that your children probably won't be stuck at the one you're stuck at. They're illegal, after all. And while Yu-Shan is a cruel place it does have some people with morals in it.

If I were writing Sidereals, I'd make "break up an illegal prayer-brothel, free the mortals, and deal with the god behind it" into a pretty ordinary sidequest. The sort of thing you might do on semi-impulse, in between your difficult jobs. And I'd have gods, even decent ones, resent/fear Sidereals in large part because they do that kind of thing; nobody likes being policed by a tiny class of unstoppable semi-vigilantes, even if they usually pick their targets reasonably well.
 
I'd expect prayer houses to be closed down often enough that your children probably won't be stuck at the one you're stuck at. They're illegal, after all. And while Yu-Shan is a cruel place it does have some people with morals in it.

If I were writing Sidereals, I'd make "break up an illegal prayer-brothel, free the mortals, and deal with the god behind it" into a pretty ordinary sidequest. The sort of thing you might do on semi-impulse, in between your difficult jobs. And I'd have gods, even decent ones, resent/fear Sidereals in large part because they do that kind of thing; nobody likes being policed by a tiny class of unstoppable semi-vigilantes, even if they usually pick their targets reasonably well.

Well the thing is too that, like, "super profitable and highly desirable, strictly controlled resource" is a great ingredient to precipitate the growth of organized crime. God crime. Organized God Crime (probably with cool miniboss lieutenants). Plus if you're getting ambrosia that you shouldn't be getting you're not going to want to take it to a reputable craftsmen on the regular, one who roughly knows who you are, what you want, and that you probably shouldn't be carrying quite this much prayer with you quite so regularly. So it also drives the growth of, like, underground workshops where you can get the shit made into nice things, gambling parlors for risking your nice things (and maybe winning chances for more prayer), a whole host of off-the-books services.

So you could always approach it from that direction too, certain Sidereals turning a blind eye in exchange for backing and help from celestial syndicates. Or even the tension of "yeah we shut it down in the slums outside Yu Shan but then there's This Rich Asshole !Senator Fuck all but flaunting his personal cult and nobody wants to be the one to jump on that grenade".

But yeah nah I don't disagree even, just like highlighting some other opportunities too.
 
Last edited:
I think someone said a while ago that Yu Shan is basically Washington DC in terms of "extreme wealth, centre of power" interspersed with "shocking poverty". And said that it has homeless gods sleeping on park benches in front of grand monuments of the victory over the P
Primordials.

And man, I just <3 that description.
See, now I can't help but imagine the Unconquered Sun going windsurfing after he turned his face from Creation.

"It can't be done perfectly" reads like an excuse for not trying. It's being done, roles are being played, so there's still the open question of whether any given alteration to the rules is an improvement or a hindrance. In practical terms, then, a specific example. How difficult do you think it should be to persuade someone like Peleps Deled to betray the Immaculate Order? on a scale of :
  1. Quick and easy for anyone competent
  2. Difficult/tedious but plausible
  3. Theoretically possible without magic
  4. Definitely requires at least one miracle
  5. Truly impossible, absurd to even attempt
On that same scale, how difficult do you think it should be to teach such an individual true humility, and kindness toward all living things, on a lasting basis?

As for Linguistics being a significant part of the social mechanics, I'm admittedly not as familiar with 3e, but would you say that Appearance had a significant role in 2e social combat? Lot of people complained about it being overpowered, since relative Appearance modifies MDVs instead of adding to the attack roll so it's effectively worth twice as much... but then Linguistics provides the same benefit to written social influence as Appearance does in person.
1-2, you just have to convince him that the Immaculate Order is actually corrupt and heretical, and he'll leap right into burning it down so that he can rebuild it according to the True Vision of the Dragons.

4-5, as that is something a person can work towards for a lifetime and still not achieve.

2e Social was shit, and Linguistics was still not involved in it in any capacity that would actually reflect its involvement in human communication and interaction. IIRC, it was representative of how beautiful your calligraphy was, not your mastery of diction and language.
 
So it's a situation where divine labor is dirt cheap and importing humans is probably strictly controlled due to a mix of writ ("Yu-Shan is for the gods") and politics ("Fuck if I want my enemies to be able to just move a whole religion up here"). But it's super personally profitable so it's going to be happening anyway so like...humans in Yu-Shan occupy this weird vulnerable/valuable position I would think. Their presence is, strictly speaking, illegal unless you can prove they're, like, your quarter-goodblooded nephew three times removed (and there's probably a roaring trade in giving mortals cover documents too) and they can be deported/executed/eaten on basically a whim without anyone coming down on you since they technically weren't here anyway. But on the flip side they also provide a deeply useful service that can't be performed by wage-slave gods and if you keep them healthy and relatively happy they'll do it better so...
This is basically how humans in the outskirts of Yu-Shan are being treated. Inside the city walls things are much more heavily regulated and they better have their document in order or else the gods involved with them will face fairly serious reprisals. The Celestial Bureacracy does not want a meaningfully sized indigenous human population sitting in the middle of Yu-Shan. Underestimating the ambitions and greed of the lesser races is how you end up shoved up your own ass with no ability to ever escape it. They crack down pretty strictly on humans without documentation within the city proper and those documents are generally expensive/difficult enough to obtain that most people brought there have a reason beyond being some personal cult. That's not to say it doesn't happen and there aren't any exclusive prayer houses in the upper city catering to gods who need a bit of discrete extra prayer but it is generally further out in the sticks

The prayer houses work well though, although they'd probably be closer to back alley sweatshops with child priests doing simple rituals then a brothel or drug den. Everyone is inside is industrious and expected to reach certain quotas. Conditions vary between them but they generally aren't the best places.

Well the thing is too that, like, "super profitable and highly desirable, strictly controlled resource" is a great ingredient to precipitate the growth of organized crime. God crime. Organized God Crime (probably with cool miniboss lieutenants). Plus if you're getting ambrosia that you shouldn't be getting you're not going to want to take it to a reputable craftsmen on the regular, one who roughly knows who you are, what you want, and that you probably shouldn't be carrying quite this much prayer with you quite so regularly. So it also drives the growth of, like, underground workshops where you can get the shit made into nice things, gambling parlors for risking your nice things (and maybe winning chances for more prayer), a whole host of off-the-books services.

So you could always approach it from that direction too, certain Sidereals turning a blind eye in exchange for backing and help from celestial syndicates. Or even the tension of "yeah we shut it down in the slums outside Yu Shan but then there's This Rich Asshole !Senator Fuck all but flaunting his personal cult and nobody wants to be the one to jump on that grenade".

But yeah nah I don't disagree even, just like highlighting some other opportunities too.
They were actually being slotted in as mostly being under the control and semi-protection of the Heavenly Dragonblooded "Perfectly Legitimate Businessmen With Back Tattoos" Clans. Not every orphan gets drawn into the clans, gangs, and business the Dragons of Heaven informally maintain but their lack of outside connections do make them almost ideal for adoption into the family. The ones that prove themselves the best get picked up as juniors and can rise pretty high if they play their cards right.
 
Last edited:
In theory, Virtues are supposed to be a statement about the metaphysical nature of Creation: "these things are in fact correlated into one big chunk even though they aren't in real world psychology, because Exalted is a world where not only is your Temperance a coherent thing, it's a thing that can be used to punch people or torn out of you by a Raksha or woven into an Artifact."

In practice, that, uh... well, writing a story entirely about fairly alien minds is difficult and I don't think most of the writers even tried. >.>
 
Last edited:
Hot take: I like virtues because they don't represent people well. I thought they were a cool commentary on the metaphysics of creation, and i really liked when solar abilities keyed off them because it made them slightly inhuman in that larger than life way.

I think my ideal state for them is as a solar only thing that you can go into for extra power when as it makes you more and more constrained by your inhuman Virrues.
 
Information: SHALL WE NOT?
That's nice.

This is dumb. First, you literally suggest that I must prove a negative without first proving your own assertion, then suggest a rather ridiculous inference about my lived experience. But just fyi, I've never met any one individual straight from the second Edition of Exalted the Roleplaying Game by White Wolf. I have however met a great many actual people.
shall we not? This is edging towards both a bit to hostile and spaghetti-ish. Chill some. Even if your points are valid, making them too laden with sarcasm and snark can undermine them.
 
So a bit of context to this. Me and @Walker of the Yellow Path are playing a one on one game on Discord for the past few months. When we started I gave my character a very limited back story that went back about a year, and amnesia for the rest. This is mostly becuse out side of reading some of the setting books, and one game that never really did anything beyond the starting adventure, I had no real experience for exalted. Walker being the awesome ST that he is took my vague outline of a character, and worked out a back story. For who my character was before she had her memory wiped. Well after six months of play, and a few more books (Namely the 2e paper backs) I find myself with a better grounding for the setting.

Over that year I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2. A LOT of Destiny 2. I've also been reading the some of the new lore they been putting out.
With that in mind I was struck by some inspiration that had been percolating in the back of my head, and with Walkers OK to start introducing crossover elements I threw this together yesterday.

Please note that this is mostly unedited.


In the space between she dreams of [BEFORE]. She dreams of the search. The search for her [CHOSEN].


She doesn't know what they will look like. Weather they will be a man or woman, young or old. Ethnicity was a total mystery as well. They could be blue like Star Light, or even made of metal for all that it mattered. She didn't know and she didn't care

She knew what they were like on the inside, and that was what mattered. The Beautiful Light that was their [SOUL] ,and that when she found that person she would help that Light inside shine all the brighter.

For the universe needed that Light now more then ever. She's not being melodramatic. You could see the bones of what had been a thriving civilization everywhere. Literally. You couldn't go more then a few steps in the over grown bombed out shells that once were skyscrapers with out finding a skeleton, but in spite of this the world is not a silent tomb. She finds the occasional survivor. Some brave soul who in still insists on living in spite of the world ending. On a good day she might even find singes of what could charitably called a village. On one very special day she ran into someone who had found their [CHOSEN].

They were two among many other survivors, and even in scavenged rags he wore his Light shined ever so bright. She asked her fellow were they were going. He said they on a pilgrimage back to the place of her birth. To rally those who survived into something more them just survivors. She liked that idea, and decided to suggest it to her [CHOSEN] when she found them.

That was a long time ago now, and her years of searching have thus far found nothing. Sometimes, when she is particularly lonely, she imagine what her chosen will be like, and the things they will do once she finds them.

With the Light they would build a Shining City, and defend it from all who see thous in their charge harmed. With steadfast strength, determination, and share stubbornness they would rebuild the foundation of civilization for the countless generation yet to come. Showing all there that you needn't settle for Dark broken place that had been for they had the Light.

With the Light they would find the monsters that had done this tragedy hidden at the edges of the map. With daring, cunning, and a little self made luck they would return to the place where she was born with that monsters hart. Showing all there that you needn't be afraid of the Dark unknown places for they had the Light.

With the Light they would learn the truths of the Universe. With patience understanding and an unyielding curiosity they would return to the place of her birth and teach those there the wonder of understanding existence. Showing all there that you needn't give into the temptations of dark mysticism for they had the Light.

No matter who her [CHOSEN] was they would help make the world whole again. For they had the Light, and that thought was enough to spurn her on.

As the years turned to decades she found a ship. To her delight it was still worthy of travel. Perhaps if she could not find her [CHOSEN] hear on this island [EARTH] she would find them elsewhere under a different sky. Yes, now that she thought of this it sounded right. This was a singe if there ever was one.

She first thought to take her search to [LUNA], but that place boar the terrible scars of an ancient enemy that yet lurks there, and while she is brave she is ever so small.

Her next thought was [MARS] the distant red dot where so much wonder had began, but it was far and her ship could not yet hope to cross that distance and return.

[MERCURY] had once been a beautiful garden forever in bloom, but something transpired, kicked what was wet and fertile into space, stealing away everything of value.

She stares her new ship towards[VENUS] her course decided.

[VENUS] is beautiful. Wet and tropical. Sometimes she pusses in her search to admire what was. Places of art and learning still stand hear. Flooded and overgrown they may be. As much as she desires to she could not stop her search long enough to truly enjoy all this place has to offer, and she must be weary.
This place is full of [DRAGONS] Their mouths full of teeth, and empty wishes.

Decades turn to centuries. Over the years she has seen many wonderful and terrible things.
People, and thing that almost looked like people came to strike bargains with the [DRAGONS] that lurked hear. The [DRAGONS] grew fat with these bargains, and as they grew fat and thought them self mighty reality frayed at it's edges. She can not say she was un-tempted. They would wispier to her so sensually "Oh Searcher Mine, but wish it and I will take you to what you seek." She ignores the temptation for what it is. She regrets doing so every time.

Eventually the strain on reality becomes too much to ignore, and the [CHOSEN] come in-mass to end the tempting threat the [DRAGONS] represent. She makes a point of staying away form the battles that fallow. The reasons why are all good and make perfect sense, but they are all lies. She is jealous of her fellows who have finally found their [CHOSEN]. Their Light shines bright and true, and she is jealous. She know that jealousy could all too easily turn to hate if she draws near, and hearing of their adventure and triumphs.

So she stays away. years go by the [DRAGONS] in their arrogance die by the score. All that remain are the bones. The bones and her search. One day long after the last [CHOSEN] has left. She finds a woman arguing with the [DRAGONS] bones. To say she is beautiful would be an exercise in understatement. She appears to be at the height of nubility, clad in cerulean gowns that mold to heevery perfect curve, swoop and line. Her hair, equally blue, cascades down her body, to blend with her gowns in a rise-and-fall onrush of blue on blue like waves of the of the cleanest purest sea , shifting azure wisps, like both ribbons and prayer strips dace around her like schools of fish in the sea.

Is she one of the [CHOSEN]? Ware is her Fellow? Dose she not understand the danger? Dose she not understand what these bones where?

She approaches the woman. She can't quit make out what she(the Woman in Blue) is saying to the bones. The woman turns at her approach. At first she tilts her head in apparent confusion. Then she smiles. Faster then bat of dragonfly's wing She(The Dreamer) is in the woman hands. The last thing she hears is the woman saying, "Thank you Goreissionth! She will do splendidly. "

If you could please provided some thoughts and feed back? Please note I am very aware of the grammatical and spelling errors. If this becomes a regular thing I'll see if I can't find someone to Beta. In the mean time I'm looking for more input on the Creative portion of the writing.

So again thoughts?
 
You know what I kinda find amusing?

Its that.... no one really has a 'divine right of kings' thing. At least, no one has much of an argument for ruling Creation.

"We made it." Wait a sec, what about the primordials? What about them? As the architects of Creation, everything in it, Yu-shan, and the frickin' Unconquered Sun, shouldn't you be bowing to them, instead of, say, anyone else?

"Right of Conqeust". Ah, then by this logic, the Realm and shogunate are totally legal successors to the Solar Deliberative. After all, the Solar Exalted were toppled by the Dragonblooded and Sidereals.

"We know best". No. No you don't.
 
Actual writing often forgot about it though. It always rubbed me the wrong way how many pieces in the books just up and portrayed Solars as Rightful Kings.
 
You know what I kinda find amusing?

Its that.... no one really has a 'divine right of kings' thing. At least, no one has much of an argument for ruling Creation.

"We made it." Wait a sec, what about the primordials? What about them? As the architects of Creation, everything in it, Yu-shan, and the frickin' Unconquered Sun, shouldn't you be bowing to them, instead of, say, anyone else?

"Right of Conqeust". Ah, then by this logic, the Realm and shogunate are totally legal successors to the Solar Deliberative. After all, the Solar Exalted were toppled by the Dragonblooded and Sidereals.

"We know best". No. No you don't.

Except... Sol legitimately gave the Solars that after the primordial war.
 
You know what I kinda find amusing?

Its that.... no one really has a 'divine right of kings' thing. At least, no one has much of an argument for ruling Creation.

"We made it." Wait a sec, what about the primordials? What about them? As the architects of Creation, everything in it, Yu-shan, and the frickin' Unconquered Sun, shouldn't you be bowing to them, instead of, say, anyone else?

"Right of Conqeust". Ah, then by this logic, the Realm and shogunate are totally legal successors to the Solar Deliberative. After all, the Solar Exalted were toppled by the Dragonblooded and Sidereals.

"We know best". No. No you don't.
What about Gaia? She contributed significantly as an architect of Creation, was on the winning side of the Primordial War, and doesn't seem to have suffered any significant defeats since. Her Chosen were the ones running most of the world since the Usurpation. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any incidents of gross incompetence she's particularly responsible for.
 
She fucked off for.... several millennia? That's lots of neglect. Her claim is dismissed.

Besides, it's chosen of the dragons. Not Gaia.
 
Back
Top