Can you give some information on the game and character?
In the name of getting some input on other portions, I'm going to elaborate on the actual character idea.

Essentially, it's for a quest on this site that uses a modern-day-ish AU for the setting:

Basically, the Second Usurpation went off without a hitch, with all 300 Solar Exaltations being captured in the Jade Prison; then the Sidereals' cover-up job fucked the Mask a little harder than usual, creating a conceptual veil over all things supernatural - enough that your average mortal needs multiple exposures before memories of gods or magic will stick in their minds, but that wasn't really a big problem at the time.

Things then continue largely on-schedule until we hit the Great Contagion: the Scarlet Empress never managed to get into the Imperial Manse, and the crisis instead ended when the insane rush of souls into Lethe caused a system glitch of unspeakable proportions that accreted most of Lethe's occupants into some sort of Neuromancer hivemind, which then turned Creation pineapple-sandwich-batshit for a bit in its efforts to stop the constant influx. By the time the dust settled, Creation had been reshaped into the solar system we know and love, with history as it's currently known starting shortly thereafter at ~5000 BC. The mass collapse of civilization, however, let that aforementioned veil build up over a majority of the mortal populace, and the Dragonbloods and Sids decided that the extra security was worth maintaining it. On a positive note, the reordering of reality also pushed the Underworld away from Creation by a bit, enough to stop Shadowlands from forming, and the Wyld proper got much more difficult to access from either direction, restricting the majority of Wyld Zones to Bordermarch or Middlemarch strength and forcing anyone trying to jump into or out of the new universe to go through extra hoops.

From there, history proceeds sort of like our own - with the exception of points where Sidereal/Lunar/Dragonblood bullshit fucks it up. For example, the American Revolution failed hard, only for several radical right-wing Terrestrial Exalt houses in Britain to head overseas some time later and basically seize the colonies for themselves; at this point, this new Empire is an insane juggernaut of bastardry backed by Heaven itself, which is even more fucked up after millennia of time for corruption to set in and older, wiser heads to die off, retire, or otherwise get taken out. Things like war gods helping throw campaigns in the Empire's favor in exchange for kickbacks, conquered regions having their cultures held ransom in exchange for their gods' collaboration with the new regime, and their army being as big a sack of dicks as they can get away with in order to fulfill deals with gods of racism, cruelty, oppression, and other concepts they can easily promote by just appealing to their subjects' basest instincts.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world has bunched up into the European Union and Chinese Federation, each propped up by their only Dragonblooded conspiracies who have tried to gather all the allies they can lay hold of. Barring the Empire's dickishness, things aren't exactly grimdark, but an unfortunate amount of bad shit happens outside of the Empire because the other world leaders are too busy trying to hold them off.

Finally, the Neverborn manage to realign the Underworld with Creation, prompting massive shitstorms everywhere as the gods and Sids hide in fear of a second Great Contagion, Shadowlands spring up all over the damn place thanks to 'Murica and its love of douchery, and the Yozis seize the opportunity to team up with their dead siblings and smash the Jade Prison wide open.

It's now been five years, and the situation is still evolving.

tl;dr - think modern-day Earth, except there was no WWII, America is basically Britain's psychotic evil twin, and Yu Shan is backing them because they've gotten unspeakably decadent and corrupt over the intervening 5 millennia and 'Murica has the least restrictions on what they're willing to give them in exchange for favors.

The Sidereal I'm thinking of is a Chosen of either Battles or Serenity who just didn't fit in with his household.

- If he was with the Crimson Panoply, the sheer enormity of the conflict between 'Murica and the rest of humanity just got to be too much. Eventually, there was no way for him to twist his orders into something that would let him meet his own face in the mirror anymore. He'd never quite fit the contemporary mold for Heaven's Soldiers, anyway - his main perspective on conflict was that they should be working with the other households more closely, doing their jobs as keepers of Creation instead of using their power to enable the gods' private agendas and help one country stomp all over the rest.

- If he was of the Cerulean Lute, on the other hand, he got sick of having his efforts to bring a little happiness to mortalkind bogged down in the cesspit of backroom deals and bureaucratic motherfuckery Yu Shan had become; even disregarding the omnipresent corruption of the Celestial Court, the sheer preponderance of attention and infrastructure given over to 'Murican interests made it damn near impossible to help the billions of people outside the Empire. Why bother helping those Germans now, when improving their lives after we conquer them will make things go more smoothly? Hell, you should be pulling as much of your fellows' work off of non-Imperial concerns as possible!

Either way, he ended up angry, bitter, old before his time, and deeply in need of something to hit. So he left.

He just got up and started walking the earth, looking to help wherever he could and desperately ignoring the sheer insignificance of his efforts. The Fivescore Fellowship doesn't care much; he's only in his 90s, after all, and general opinion paints him as a burnout (unfortunately somewhat true) who can be easily pulled back in if needed.

Personality-wise, he's basically a blend of various 'cheerful irrelevant martial artist past the flower of youth' archetypes being worn like a mask to hide a deeply troubled man who's been nearly broken by decades of soul-crushing overwork and is trying to find some solace in playing mysterious stranger and punching out uppity gods, Dragonbloods, elementals, raksha, or whatever other dickass walks into his knuckles.

He's still in a phase where he moves on almost desperately after the major problems in a given city or town have been resolved, just so he doesn't have to see it if things go to shit afterward. Maybe he'll try to cobble together some sort of long-term plan for making things better (if only for one or two countries) after another few years, but for now he's got way too much in common with start-of-series Vash the Stampede or Zifnab of the Death's Gate Cycle to be called okay, emotionally or psychologically. Angry, fucked-up, hiding it behind a mask that embodies what he really wishes he was.

Stat wise, he's still pretty skeletal, but so far I've got:

- Str 2 / Dex 4 / Sta 4; Cha 3, Man 3, App 1; Per 4, Int 2, Wit 3.

- High Compassion and Valor, low Temperance and Conviction

- Probably has Specialties in things like "Mockery", "Improvised Weapons", "Resisting Alcohol", and "Lying".
 
Essentially, it's for a quest on this site that uses a modern-day-ish AU for the setting:

Stat wise, he's still pretty skeletal, but so far I've got:

- Str 2 / Dex 4 / Sta 4; Cha 3, Man 3, App 1; Per 4, Int 2, Wit 3.

- High Compassion and Valor, low Temperance and Conviction

- Probably has Specialties in things like "Mockery", "Improvised Weapons", "Resisting Alcohol", and "Lying".
Ok, so what are the mechanics going to bring to the quest? Sure, you might want some, but I don't think you really need all of Exalted's mechanics for that: running actual Exalted mechanics in a quest format sounds about the most boring thing you could do in one. The players aren't really going to be interacting with most of the stuff on the normal sheet anyways. So why have it?

Also, unless you have a really good explanation for what some of those abilities are, it might be easier to use something like EarthScorpion's condensed form for attributes (and possibly abilities).

What to do with charms and the like is trickier. Might be easiest to use the rating in the college as a general this is how good you are at this theme of magic, which comes up similar to stunts. The charms in an ability are all valid uses of the college. It gives the players the ability to make write ins/input, without drawing in all of Exalted mechanical baggage.
 
...

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

...

Well, that's a good thirty dollars I'll not be seeing again.

...

Please stand by.

You bought the only book about Sidereals ever published that wasn't botched in execution. It's arguably botched in design, but that's a separate problem. Read through it and work out what you want your Sidereals to look like, in terms of what they can do. Particularly pay attention to SMA stupidity and the implications of the "click button in heaven, something happens below" fate effects.

If you want to use Sidereals, that one (and Games of Divinity - get that asap) is infinitely more useful than any 2E book.
 
Last edited:
So, basically, the backstory of Green Sun/Black Shadows, minus the Code Geass cross/fusion?
Literally Green Sun, Black Shadows, but with me not mentioning much about Britannia because I don't know enough about that anime to risk muddling my explanation of the quest's setting by trying to explain that on top of the rest.

So you're basically making a less attractive James Bond via Daniel Craig. Should be fun.
That's a fascinating idea, but I think James Bond as an archetype is just too... collected. Like, I'm debating having this guy take Orgiastic Fugitive Style for fluff reasons alone, with him learning it from a god of intoxication that he sorta-kinda befriended for a few decades before differing interests politely peeled them apart. Like, his appearance is 'a somewhat pudgy man with a shaggy mane of hair, absolutely awful teeth*, and a lazy eye.' The man frequently dresses in outfits that look like somebody tried to make a good set of winter clothing with Hagrid as their fashion consultant and a pile of old Persian rugs as their building materials.

I just cannot put this man together in my head and think 'James Bond'.

The main idea is that if you don't know better, he's this big friendly brawler who drinks and smokes and humiliates baddies into simmering, impotent rage before laying them out flat with kung-fu. The terribly fucked-up old man with a death wish hiding underneath that could be kind of Daniel Craig's Bond, but it's still not a great metaphor.


* He predates non-opiate-based dentistry in his home county by a good few decades and got into multiple fights when he was younger; those choppers are 60% metal fillings by volume, and the rest look like they've spent the last year marinading in a pot of tobacco tar.
 
so what's the solar charm spread looking like now?
There's a pretty good variety of new charms... but... you do like swords.. right?

Melee 10
Presence 6
Sail 6
Thrown 6
Lore 5
Perform. 5
Survival 5
Archery 4
Bureaucracy. 4
Socialize 4
Brawl 3
Occult 3
Stealth 3
Resist. 3
Athletics 2
Integrity 2
Invest. 2
Larceny 2
Linguistics 2
War 2
Craft 1
Medicine 1
Ride 1
Dodge  
Awareness  
Craft 61
Socialize 54
Brawl 53
Lore 53
Melee 48
Sail 45
Perform. 42
Occult 39
Archery 38
Ride 37
Linguistics 35
Integrity 34
Athletics 33
Larceny 31
Thrown 31
Bureaucr. 30
Presence 30
Survival 29
Resist. 29
Stealth 26
Dodge 26
Medicine 24
Awareness 22
Invest. 19
War 19
 
I'd honestly say that "antagonist" is far too strong a word. It implies that you're under active assault.
To specifically quote what ES is referring to, because it turns out I said it on Spacebattles...
Revlid said:
On the note given above - you know what's really good about Infernal Charmsets? I mean, unique to the way they work, not the fact that the published material was mechanically better written and more suited to the system than its peers.

It's that they produce, more than any other setup in the game, more than any setup I've seen beyond "have someone else RP a possessing entity", a powerset with its own motives.

A Solar's powers will never fight him.
A Sidereal's powers aren't going to strain under her grip.
A Lunar's powers won't do things he didn't want them to do.
A Terrestrial's powers don't have their own agenda.
But an Infernal who picks up Malfeas Charms has to deal with the fact that his powers want to hurt people.

Not in the obvious, fight-for-dominance-in-a-metaphorical-mindscape sort of way, but in the sense that these powers were designed to be perfectly suited to a specific personality, and in some instances themselves work to shape and model that personality. If you are that personality, then the powers work perfectly, and at this point the Charmset has 'won'. Jackie Estacado has given in to the urgings of the Darkness. Ling's been eaten up by Greed. Siegfried's been taken over by Soul Edge. You're still in charge, but you're doing exactly what the Charmset 'wants' you to do.

If you're not that personality, you have to wrestle the round peg into the square hole over and over again. You have to strain and adapt and compromise to do what you want, albeit the way your powers want to do it.

Infernal powers – unlike any other in Exalted – really have a life of their own. Out of a selection of character types whose only real common point is "I am awesome", the Infernal is the only one whose powers can be an antagonist within their own story. Something to be overcome or bypassed. That's their most distinguishing point.

If you have access to Kimbery's Charmset, you might as well have her as a siren-devil sitting on your shoulder, telling you to act like her. You don't have any such thing, of course (outside of stunted Essence-training-meditation), but you really might as well, because you, as a player and as a character, know that there is power to be had in acting like her. And the more of her Charms you pick up, the stronger that "voice" becomes, because there is more and more power to be found in becoming her. And it's entirely up to you, no Virtue rolls or Willpower expenditure or unnatural mental influence involved, just pure player/character decisions.

How marvellously clever.
 
Ok, so what are the mechanics going to bring to the quest? Sure, you might want some, but I don't think you really need all of Exalted's mechanics for that: running actual Exalted mechanics in a quest format sounds about the most boring thing you could do in one. The players aren't really going to be interacting with most of the stuff on the normal sheet anyways. So why have it?

This.

Honestly, GardenerBriareus, tabletop rules don't really work well for Quests. Decide how you want your Sids to work, then adapt them for a rule-framework appropiate for the medium. Look at MJ12 Cowls, or Omicron Golden light, for some inspiration.
 
Vakurhamin Thousand-Handed, Demon of the Second Circle
Indulgent Soul of the Crucible of Brass and Iron

Sometimes, a demon embodies the antithesis of their progenitor's nature. In this, Vakurhamin is much that Suntarankal is not. The culture, verve and sublime insight provided by Supernatural Martial are all secondary to the Crucible of Brass and Iron, leaving it to his Indulgent soul to partake instead. Vakurhamin does so greedily, with great joy, avarice and abandon.

Vakurhamin Thousand-Handed is a being who has not walked, worked or fought for himself in all of existence, entrusting numerous demon servants or artifacts to attend to his every whim. He appears most often as a wise sage with a painted face and gleaming solid halo of burnished gold, wearing saffron robes of a holy man. Fanning out from his back are a thousand graceful arms, and not one of them does anything constructive.

In his capacity as Indulgent Soul, Vakurhamin serves most as record keeper and chronicler of the aspirants that pass through his progenitor's classrooms and arenas. He takes to most of the fanfare like a reigning emperor does bloodsport- with unabashed glee. His hobbies and other interests lead many to his door, seeking favor with the Crucible or some interesting insight, for Vakurhamin learns much from the failures of those who succumb to Suntarankal's tender mercies.

Vakurhamin is often exhibited as a waste of potential among other Second Circles- he has learned or could teach nearly every style Suntarankal has ever known, but could not be bothered to perform a single kata.

His one true skill lies in the crafting of First Circles, most of which exist primarily to do everything for him and preserve his uncalloused knuckles. Regardless of his reasons, he has every reason to be proud of his accomplishments- "a hundred useful breeds!"

He neglects to mention the thousands or so failed attempts. Notable among his successes are the AkarsasIya- or the Demon Fists of Hell.

Vakurhamin categorically denies the (vastly more popular) combat forms as being at all associated with his work.

Summoning (3/5): Bound by sorcerers primarily to craft servant races specifically for their needs, Vakurhamin tends to ask for much and offers little in return. Fortunately, his bargaining postures are both known and highly dubious, so those who do summon him know not to accept shoddy product. He could be a tutor in the Martial Arts spoken of in the same breath as his progenitor, (and one students are likely to survive) but his indolent nature and personality guarantees a pupil takes a hundred times as long to learn a single Charm.

Motivation: Vakurhamin primarily wishes to laze about, indulging in everything Suntarankal eschews. Amusingly, the Crucible of Brass and Iron by his very nature provides great arena viewing for the more martially inclined.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, GardenerBriareus, tabletop rules don't really work well for Quests. Decide how you want your Sids to work, then adapt them for a rule-framework appropiate for the medium. Look at MJ12 Cowls, or Omicron Golden light, for some inspiration.
As previously stated, I'm not starting a quest, I'm helping an ongoing one, which uses 2.5 rules and seems to be doing just fine with them.
 
You know, coming out of a pair of discussions on the general bumbling around executing both raksha and Sidereals properly during 2e, let alone what some of the things the fandom has created up out of them/inspired by them and aping the tone, I'm honestly surprised that no one has ever once attempted to organize "the Bad Borgstrom Challenge."

 
As previously stated, I'm not starting a quest, I'm helping an ongoing one, which uses 2.5 rules and seems to be doing just fine with them.
You didn't actually state this, so previously states is a bit much. Link to the quest?

If you're using the full Exalted ruleset, well, figure out what the astrology rules are. Also, don't be afraid to spread out your charms a bit: Sidereals have a lot of really useful entry level charms.
 
Last edited:
Do Mara and Octavian feel any kind of way about each other in Exalted? Or are the relationships of 2nd Circles with each other the sort of thing depending entirely on what one wants them to feel about one another?
 
Do Mara and Octavian feel any kind of way about each other in Exalted? Or are the relationships of 2nd Circles with each other the sort of thing depending entirely on what one wants them to feel about one another?
There aren't a lot of demon-to-demon interaction stories, at least in the 2nd Edition books I've read, so this is probably one of these "however you want to write it for plot reasons" kind of things. It feels like something that you could spend a decent chunk of time exploring, because there's a lot of information to consider. We have the write-ups of Octavian and Mara themselves, so those're the most obvious parts. Next layer is that Octavian is the Defining soul of Munaxes and Mara is the Defining soul of Erembour, so thinking about how those two 3rd circles would interact should factor in. Then finally there's the "top level" of She Who Lives in Her Name and The Ebon Dragon, so if the two Yozis have a dispute one another or some kind of general relationship (adversarial or otherwise), their soul hierarchies are very likely to be aware and take that into consideration.

I envision each demon, unless stated to be feral or non-sentient, as an individual with likes/dislikes, preferences and their own set of (possibly limited) emotions they experience, but in my mind the Defining souls are going to be a lot more likely to remain "on-theme" to their 3rd circle than other types of 2nd circles might be.
One more thing I imagine is that Ebon Dragon souls are more likely to be willing to go against their themes (for a brief time) if they or TED could benefit from it, just because of TED's betrayal and testing boundaries themes. Now, I'm not a fan of the let's-screw-up-our-own-plans "just because we're into betrayal" idea, I prefer the idea of TED souls betraying particular plans at the right time for actual reasons. Some reasons could be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory; teaching the plan-holder an ironic lesson like keeping your friends close but your enemies closer; acting now because this is the optimal time for retribution-free-betrayal aka you can get away with it today better than tomorrow; or because the betrayal would redefine the relationship and mess with it's existing framework/boundaries). None should be safe from TED's betrayal, but if treachery doesn't sting when it happens or the results aren't amusing, why betray now instead of at a later time when it would be much more fun and enjoyable?
 
Last edited:
Also, consider that it's actually quite probable that any two second circles haven't met in, like, the last millenia.
 
Last edited:
Is it wrong for me to think that in the first age, two second circle demons being stuck in a manse was the subject of an equivalent to reality television?
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thought to have about a society run by decadent golden god-kings slowly going mad.
 
I envision each demon, unless stated to be feral or non-sentient, as an individual with likes/dislikes, preferences and their own set of (possibly limited) emotions they experience, but in my mind the Defining souls are going to be a lot more likely to remain "on-theme" to their 3rd circle than other types of 2nd circles might be.

I actually strongly disagree there. A Defining Soul is not a fetich - it's an expression of the Second Circle's capacity to define their own nature. If anything, they're going to be more off-theme, because they're an expression of the demon's "free-will", so to speak. If we consider free will to be the capacity to define one's own actions, then the defining soul defines the capacity for redefinition.

But anyway, no, I don't actually believe that Second Circles should have too much of a link to their Yozi. They're an expression of their Third Circle, and a properly done Third Circle is divergent from their Yozi that their Second Circles are effectively fairly obfuscated. I mean, after all, Octavian is a Pyrian soul.

Also, another thing to note is that as per Games of Divinity, the Second Circles are the ones who de facto run most of the Demon City. The Third Circles mostly do their pet hobbies and interests and the rest of the City warps around them. It sort of makes sense - take the Shashalme, for example. What does it care about the day to day business of building an empire? It'd just prefer to get some Second Circles and powerful First Circles adoring it, shower its gifts upon the masses, and sit back and relax in its garden.
 
I agree with EarthScorpion here.

Third Circles are really more akin to the Greek gods in that they don't really do a lot of things, except when they some times make display of their powers and call it a day.

Second Circles are way more involved with the day to day life of the Demon City, being rulers of empires, conquerors and many other roles. To follow up with the "Ancient Greece" metaphor, they represent the various city-states and their ability to apply power to the world around them.
 
I actually strongly disagree there. A Defining Soul is not a fetich - it's an expression of the Second Circle's capacity to define their own nature. If anything, they're going to be more off-theme, because they're an expression of the demon's "free-will", so to speak. If we consider free will to be the capacity to define one's own actions, then the defining soul defines the capacity for redefinition.

If this is the case, I've been misunderstanding what the Defining Soul actually does. Before reading your post, I was thinking they were the closest thing to a Fetich a 3rd circle would have, in that they would define/exemplify why the 3rd circle is the way they are. So they're more like a representation of the 3rd circle demon's ability to redefine themselves? Trying to find more answers on the topic, I found this link talking about the soul types, I'm wondering how accurate it is: FrivYeti/TheDemonSouls - Exalted - Unofficial Wiki . Is the Expressive soul usually going to be the one that acts most in-line with the 3rd circle's themes, acting to express its nature?

But anyway, no, I don't actually believe that Second Circles should have too much of a link to their Yozi. They're an expression of their Third Circle, and a properly done Third Circle is divergent from their Yozi that their Second Circles are effectively fairly obfuscated. I mean, after all, Octavian is a Pyrian soul.

See, in my mind, Octavian's behavior/ruling is extremely Pyrian, not divergent at all from SWLIHN's "strong rule the weak" theme. I guess I don't understand Munaxes very well- to me, Octavian always seemed to be more like SWLIHN than Munaxes, kind of living the strongest-deserve-their-place-at-the-top idea. I'm not disagreeing with you- the soul hierarchy is confusing to me but I thought I finally gotten it down to where I understood it pretty well. I want to know how/where I'm getting it wrong.
 
Back
Top