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Dragon Ball: Days of Future Past (Dead)

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Hey @Terrabrand? I've got a semi-continuity error with my last post, and you might have to retcon or edit your response once I fix it. Remember the rifle explosion? Well, I had a funny/informative discussion with @The Fourth Monado about it on Discord. In the original version of the rifle-splitting post, the rifle's self-destruct system was a mundane omnidirectional explosion. The intent, when the rifle is filled with an equal power level to the thief, is to do something like this to the unfortunate bastard, though perhaps with a somewhat bigger light-show factor:



This is why I had Agatha IT away from the blast, so as not to be disoriented by the explosion herself. Unfortunately, as Monado pointed out (much to my chagrin and/or laughter), an omnidirectional 28-million blast would do...more than that. Much more. We're talking "completely annihilate the inner planets of the solar system, burn the surface off of the outer planets, and critically damage the sun" levels of firepower. So I edited the explosion mechanism to be a shaped charge that only goes off in the direction of the victim, sort of like a reactive armor panel or a car airbag. So far, so good.

Unfortunately I accidentally left in the IT thing like an idiot, when Agatha would, in this situation, go straight for the shotgun under the chin. The current version...does not make sense for Agatha to do in this situation, and in fact you perhaps only gained a grapple opportunity because of it. So I'm going to fix my post shortly. Are you alright with editing yours?
 
Genon said:
This is why I had Agatha IT away from the blast, so as not to be disoriented by the explosion herself. Unfortunately, as Monado pointed out (much to my chagrin and/or laughter), an omnidirectional 28-million blast would do...more than that. Much more. We're talking "completely annihilate the inner planets of the solar system, burn the surface off of the outer planets, and critically damage the sun" levels of firepower. So I edited the explosion mechanism to be a shaped charge that only goes off in the direction of the victim, sort of like a reactive armor panel or a car airbag. So far, so good.

Unfortunately I accidentally left in the IT thing like an idiot, when Agatha would, in this situation, go straight for the shotgun under the chin. The current version...does not make sense for Agatha to do in this situation, and in fact you perhaps only gained a grapple opportunity because of it. So I'm going to fix my post shortly. Are you alright with editing yours?
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... I charged you from the ground. You'd be blowing up the planet unless Taka tanked the entire blast. That seems rather in violation of Mato telling us 'no collateral'. I'm willing to change my post up if needed, but I'm not sure the fix is a fix.
 
Terrabrand said:
... I charged you from the ground. You'd be blowing up the planet unless Taka tanked the entire blast. That seems rather in violation of Mato telling us 'no collateral'. I'm willing to change my post up if needed, but I'm not sure the fix is a fix.
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*facepalm*
I really need to read things more closely. Lemme go deal with that quickly.
 
Terrabrand said:
@The Fourth Monado; I'm assuming Taka would have past experience with such energy blades. Would his presumably ki infused sword expect to block them or no?
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...Wait, did Taka seriously use live steel for a training battle? I mean, if the edge is made of ki, he can presumably blunt it...but if the ki infusion only sharpens the steel, well...he'd better be really goddamn careful, and even if he doesn't actually cause any serious damage with it, Agatha will probably slap and/or punch him when she finds out Taka could have very well disemboweled her on accident.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm probably overthinking it. Carry on.
 
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Genon said:
...Wait, did Taka seriously use live steel for a training battle? I mean, if the edge is made of ki, he can presumably blunt it...but if the ki infusion only sharpens the steel, well...he'd better be really goddamn careful, and even if he doesn't actually cause any serious damage with it, Agatha will probably slap and/or punch him when she finds out Taka could have very well disemboweled her on accident.
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He doesn't have a training sword (on him, at least). There's a reason he described Iado as a technique to not be aimed at allies and used it on the weapon. He's also really good at fighting, skills wise, (still waiting on @PoptartProdigy to finish the After the End style sheet to get an assessment in that system) and there's a reason he was only aiming for the weapon and not a limb. And yes, he has a sharp metal katana. He was ready for battle, when he joined the patrol. He hasn't gotten replacements for eg any training gear. He's rather focused on improving.

In any event, updated my response post to respond to the response.
 
Genon said:
This is why I had Agatha IT away from the blast, so as not to be disoriented by the explosion herself. Unfortunately, as Monado pointed out (much to my chagrin and/or laughter), an omnidirectional 28-million blast would do...more than that. Much more. We're talking "completely annihilate the inner planets of the solar system, burn the surface off of the outer planets, and critically damage the sun" levels of firepower.
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Uh... based on how I remember the fight with Vegeta and Goku, a fighter with a power level of 24000 still has to put some effort into a planet-destroying directional blast. If so, then an omnidirectional blast at twenty-eight million actually shouldn't do that. It'd wreck the planet it's done directly above, because about half its energy would be radiated into the ground below the blast, and an effective power level of fourteen million is still enough to annihilate a planet, clearly.

But if such an explosion blew up in, say, low Earth orbit, then by the time the blast had radiated outward to hit the moon... The moon only makes up a bit less than one ten-thousandth of the area of the sky, and absorbs one ten thousandth of the blast. Effective power level of 2800, spread out across millions of square miles of surface area. Not a drilling beam of the type normally used to core out a planet, not even something like Frieza's Death Balls that he used to destroy Planet Vegeta or Namek.

The sun, which is much farther away but much larger, catches the same effective power level spread out over ten thousand times the area; I am almost sure it wouldn't blow up or be destabilized. And other planets not part of the Earth-Moon system are so much farther away that they would in turn absorb far less energy than the moon.

Effective power level would be... down in the tens or less. Nowhere near enough to blow up or even seriously scorch a planet unless we accept total inconsistency with observed effects of blasts in atmosphere.

That said, you'd still pasteurize the planet you were flying above, so that's true.

...

There's also a certain issue of incompatibility with how energy blasts that are clearly supposed to be threats to, say, Ginyu Force level fighters can miss or be deflected and hit the landscape, and they destroy a mountain and leave a mile-wide crater or whatever but do not destroy the planet. In situations that sure don't look to me like the fighter in question deliberately drained all the energy out of his big blast to stop it from wrecking the planet.

But we don't really have a good way of squaring that circle, as far as I know. The best I can come up with is that "destroyer of worlds" mode is a thing that fighters with a power level below, say, several hundred thousand have to consciously turn on and that there's some kind of pseudo-magical effect that enables them to pump enough ki into a planet-sized object to destroy it, when they just plain couldn't do that to normal objects including one another.

And yeah, I know, that would turn a lot of calcs and power estimates inside out if true.

Unfortunately I accidentally left in the IT thing like an idiot, when Agatha would, in this situation, go straight for the shotgun under the chin. The current version...does not make sense for Agatha to do in this situation, and in fact you perhaps only gained a grapple opportunity because of it. So I'm going to fix my post shortly. Are you alright with editing yours?
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Well, as to Agatha ITing away... I mean, a shaped charge that could potentially blow up a planet in the direction it's fired would still have at least enough sidescatter that it could potentially be dazzling or disorienting. Teleporting a bit of distance away would seem prudent, given that you expect the blast to actually work and do enough harm to momentarily inconvenience the opponent.

Terrabrand said:
... I charged you from the ground. You'd be blowing up the planet unless Taka tanked the entire blast. That seems rather in violation of Mato telling us 'no collateral'. I'm willing to change my post up if needed, but I'm not sure the fix is a fix.
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If the directional breach is designed to lock on and target someone's ki signature, it wouldn't be that big a handwave to assume it directionally blows up in the directions where, and only where, it sees the sky obscured by the ki-using opponent.

That said... honestly, if I wanted to use fridge logic about how planet-destroying energies get slung around in DBZ fights without the planets going 'boom,' I could probably pick everything to death. The narrative rule in DBZ seems to be that no matter how powerful you are, at least until you reach FPSSJ energy levels, it takes a deliberate act of will to charge a blast powerful enough to destroy a planet. You can't do it by accident without charging up to it. Sure, a power level of several thousand is enough that you can do it, but even being a thousand times more powerful than that won't let you do it casually with a flick of the wrist. Not even Frieza does as far as I can tell.

I may be forgetting something, granted.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
There's also a certain issue of incompatibility with how energy blasts that are clearly supposed to be threats to, say, Ginyu Force level fighters can miss or be deflected and hit the landscape, and they destroy a mountain and leave a mile-wide crater or whatever but do not destroy the planet. In situations that sure don't look to me like the fighter in question deliberately drained all the energy out of his big blast to stop it from wrecking the planet.
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One can assume deflection greatly weakens the attack, though certainly that doesn't address misses.
 
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Lessons From the King
  • Sidestory
    • Another sunrise over the capital city of New Garenhuld, another day Vegal would have to spend training and refining his Super Saiyan 2. Honestly, considering the major gains he'd gotten, he'd rather be doing anything else today - he just crested 3.5 billion at full power, so he'd think he'd have a day to himself! But no, instead he was heading off to the usual training chambers, there to spend 50% of his time hurling himself at his grandfather and another 50% trying - and failing - to learn what techniques of the Royal Style that he could.

    He wasn't sure why the Ki Compression techniques were so difficult for him to grasp, honestly, but he was trying! That had to count for something, right?

    ...No using whining about it. Better to just keep trying, for whatever effect that'd have.

    And so, a few hours later, the boy was screaming as his aura crushed closer to his body - already thicker and denser than it normally was. One more push should force it into a liquid ha-!

    BOOM

    Coughing, Vegal pulled himself onto hands and knees in the crater he'd just made, ears ringing from the explosion he'd just set off all over his body. He could feel the tired sigh echo through Jaffur's Ki, as the man touched down outside the edges of the new indent in the floor.

    "-gh. You won't be learning by just repeating the same mistakes over and over," He hears, as the ringing in his ears dissipates. "Come."

    Huh? "Sir?" Vegal queried cautiously, even as he scrambled to his feet. You don't disregard a direct order from the King, of course, but a wise man knows to always try and figure out what particular whim the King is acting on whenever something like this happens.

    "...Tell me," The King began, once they had left the training room, "What is power?"

    Vegal blinked, not having expected such a question. "Um... the ability to effect the world around you?"

    The King paused for a split second. "I'm impressed - You managed to tell me a completely accurate definition, while missing most of the spirit of the question. Let me refine my earlier statement, then - what does power mean to you?"

    "..."

    Honestly, Vegal hadn't ever really thought about that ever. Most of the situations he'd dealt with in his life hadn't exactly needed much self-reflection of that sort... so he didn't answer for a few, stretched-out seconds.

    "...Something that makes my life easier," He finally answered, only to feel the rush of disappointment that shot through Jaffur's Ki. "Grandfather?"

    "This is what I get for neglecting my heir's education," the King muttered, massaging the bridge of his nose for a moment. "Look over there."

    "...That's the capital," Vegal finally spoke confusedly, after a moment of them both looking out the window at the sprawling city filled with shining towers. "Why are you-"

    "Not like that," His grandfather snapped. "Look with everything. Stretch out all of your senses - farther - there you go. How many people in this one city can you sense?"

    Obediently, Vegal stretched out all of his senses, and began gathering in the sheer number of people in the city. Honestly, he'd never really used his sense to do this - he could pick out individuals on a crowd, of course, but differentiating everyone in what is basically a massive crowd was slightly different. "...Ten million?" He finally answered, half questioning.

    "Twelve million, five hundred forty-five thousand, eight hundred and twenty-three - no, twenty four, I'll need to send Darien and Layla a 'congratulations-for-having-a-new-baby' present," The king rattled out, without any sort of focus as he continued walking, before stopping at an open-air balcony. "And most of the cities here have far more people - most hit around five-hundred million, and the largest has just over a billion people in it," he continued, turning and setting his gaze on his heir. "And all of them rely on me to keep the realm and themselves safe.

    Easier? For everything that this power makes easier, yet another binding is layed upon ones such as us," Jaffur Gokun-Vegeta continued, a humorless chuckle escaping his lips. "You already have people coming directly to you to help them with their problems, don't you, Prince Vegal. And you can't just turn them away, because you are royalty."

    Unable to speak, Vegal just shifted slightly uncomfortably as the king continued speaking. "As a King, that burden will increase more than you can imagine. From people coming to you to help them with their more mundane problems, to matters of State and running the overall nation - you'll find, even with all of your power, that you'll be unable to use it purely for your own benefit. As a King, power is but a chain - a chain binding you to your nation and its people.

    "Now... I think it's time you learned that lesson. Thusly, you will be joining me in morning court, to observe the various goings-on there. Secondly, I believe beginning your training into the secrets of Divine Ki with your current mindset would prove more counterproductive than anything else..."

    "Gran-?" Vegal began asking, before gasping and throwing up one arm to cover his eyes as the King suddenly erupted into a pillar of divine blue-white light.

    There were two Mysteries the people of New Garenhuld were forbidden on pain of law to pursue - the first, attempting to achieve the Royal Style without permission of the King, for those who used it speak with the voice of the King. The second was to plumb the mysteries of Divine Ki, as it alone is the domain of the Royal Family.

    Vegal was forcibly reminded that someday, he would bear the power of the divine himself, as the glowing outline surrounding his grandfather shattered to reveal him in the full glory of Super Saiyan Blue.

    "I must first set you on the path of Enlightenment," The God-King of New Garenhuld finished, eyes locked with his grandson.
     
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  • Sidestory
    • The Fourth Monado said:
    "I must first set you on the path of Enlightenment," The God-King of New Garenhuld finished, eyes locked with his grandsons.
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    Hmm, I see...

    So Luke'll definitely need to get to god Tier if he wants to beat Jaffur's head so far in that it finally dislodges itself from his ass then. :V

    More seriously, an interestin' lil' look into the daily life and pain of one Vegal and the ever punch-able Jaffur.
     
    Yeah, that was...that was a good piece, @The Fourth Monado .

    Because now Jaffur isn't just "that asshole with too much power and a revenge-boner".

    He's partly that, but he's also...he actually seems to understand responsibility, leadership, the use of power....

    He...he doesn't seem to want to be so strong, so relied on, but can't seem to find someone else to trust with it.

    Which means, from my reading of this...he's not an irredeemable villain we have to mercilessly slaughter given half a chance. He's....he might be this RP's Vegeta. If that makes sense.
     
    Sucal said:
    Yeah.

    He then went and forget everything he learned for his suicidal crusade.
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    I don't know, it sounds like he's actually ramped up to where he can beat instances of the Enemy. It's not suicide if you don't predictably get killed trying.

    His biggest problem seems to be that he's viewing the goddess of time as an enemy rather than an ally, when he has in his possession information that would likely convince her to ally with him.

    He thinks he's in a position where he's doing what he does alone on account of "somebody has to and no one else will," when in fact it's not quite that simple.

    Kakara would have figured this one out a long time ago (in fact, insofar as Kakara is the 'Karen' entity she DID). Pointing this out to Jaffur would probably be, uh... well, that actually might be a suicidal crusade.
     
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    Simon_Jester said:
    I don't know, it sounds like he's actually ramped up to where he can beat instances of the Enemy. It's not suicide if you don't predictably get killed trying.
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    tbh there's only one Enemy in all of the timelines that Jaffur doesn't have a 50% or greater chance of beating 1v1, and that's the First Enemy from Garenhuld Main - you know, the magician with all the conceptual weight of 'I'm the First Void User Ever'?
     
    And, hey, if Gohan had a noticeable chance of winning against the First Enemy, I'm pretty sure Jaffur can manage the same thing, being as how he is asskicking-specced and all. Gohan... never really was, y'know?
     
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