Really, I don't think that Bassoon has a problem with that. What seems to be the case is that he just wants people to report intel, follow a plan, and have a chain of command. I freely admit that I might just be reading this the wrong way though.
Dragon Ball: Days of Future Past (Dead)
- Thread starter The Fourth Monado
- Start date
- OOC
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Yes, I know that OOC.
But IC hes stated he wants a swat team rather then an Avengers team
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Lemon snaps. It's a start.
I mean, that kind of thing just doesn't work, it's effectively indistinguishable from a team that goes "lol do whatever" in the field. Plus, it makes it kind of impossible for the team to hew closely to specified rules of engagement or be answerable to a higher authority. Which it bears remembering that the Time Patrol is, and the Avengers aren't.
The Avengers don't have to worry about the Living Tribunal getting tired of their antics, they aren't directly accountable unless they do something like piss off the Hulk badly enough to come after them all personally, and that's not accountability in the usual sense of the word. The Avengers more or less define their own missions and membership roster.
By contrast, the Time Patrol actually does get its missions from someone else, and is answerable to them if they fail, or for that matter 'succeed' on terms that compromise the overall objectives of the Patrol.
Well, the problem is, if you put Cap in charge of the Avengers and Cap says "Iron Man, don't shoot the big glowy thing," and Iron Man shoots the big glowy thing without telling Steve why and then blames Cap for yelling at Iron Man afterwards... that just isn't a healthy team dynamic IMO.
I mean, that kind of thing just doesn't work, it's effectively indistinguishable from a team that goes "lol do whatever" in the field. Plus, it makes it kind of impossible for the team to hew closely to specified rules of engagement or be answerable to a higher authority. Which it bears remembering that the Time Patrol is, and the Avengers aren't.
The Avengers don't have to worry about the Living Tribunal getting tired of their antics, they aren't directly accountable unless they do something like piss off the Hulk badly enough to come after them all personally, and that's not accountability in the usual sense of the word. The Avengers more or less define their own missions and membership roster.
By contrast, the Time Patrol actually does get its missions from someone else, and is answerable to them if they fail, or for that matter 'succeed' on terms that compromise the overall objectives of the Patrol.
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Yes, and that mostly doesn't happen (unless it is one of those megacrossover fight issues... or something) but they generally have a fairly healthy command structure. Mostly, it is just a dude who understands tactics assigns roles, and listens to experts talk. The Avengers are admittedly almost entirely answerable only to themselves (and any time travellers, other supers etc if they mess badly up).
They do generally have codes, if only becuase of decades of working with each other (no matter what the sliding timescale says), but that model was made by close friends with among other things, scarely accurate sociological projections, an even more ridiculously helpful multiverse system, and a substantial number of time travellers ready and willing to share insights and such with each other. I get both perspectives, and hope for a resolution of some description.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
What worries me is that I'm not sure how far Bassoon can compromise the basic principle here without resigning. The team had Avengers-style coordination (listen to leader figures who have largely informal authority, while experts do their own thing) before Bassoon was put in charge, as far as I can tell.
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I'm fine just saying they went into the hospital to start learning.
I think the end-result will be somewhere between SWAT (or HRT or GSG9 or RCMP or TIGRIS, etc) and Avengers; more structured than Avengers but not as consistently structured as real-life police units.
But right now the pendulum is swinging fairly hard in the SWAT direction because Bonny swang way past even something as casual as Avengers-level stuff.
Please don't talk as if you know what my character is thinking.
Again, end result is somewhere in between but currently he's got SWAT-style in mind because it fits the missions they keep getting.
Bassoon's not planning to resign.
But he is going to ensure he can trust all team members to listen to orders in the field.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
@The Fourth Monado, do we need to have one of us make an IC post to this tune or what? This does seem to be about the place to end the scene.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
sure go ahead and end it
tbh I'm just waiting for Horizon and Poptart to organize that Mato vs. Luke fight already
HorizonWanderer
Go beyond 'further beyond'.
- Location
- Betwixt and between broken skies
You just want Mato to get a damned haircut already don't you.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
The actual fight is important, too!You just want Mato to get a damned haircut already don't you.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Mitsuba:
"..."
Saiyan hair is something of a sore spot for Mitsuba. She got a 'perfect storm' of hybrid genes, such that her hair tries to spike like a pure-bred saiyan's, but doesn't quite have the stiffness for it. QUITE. And yet... it knows what it wants to do, even if it cannot do it.
Left to its own devices, it winds up forming the most abject, disorderly, tangled mass you've ever seen; worst hair days this side of Medusa. In merely ordinary hairstyles and with merely ordinary hair care products, it stages what can only be termed escape attempts and reverts to its natural state.
She's too proud to cut it short, so she typically wears her hair in some rather carefully braided arrangements that it can't escape from in a hurry. Prior to her preparations to train for the alien invasion, her biggest incentive to train en masque, which she did at least a little of, was just that she doesn't have such damn bad hair days as "Melanie Roberts."
"..."
Saiyan hair is something of a sore spot for Mitsuba. She got a 'perfect storm' of hybrid genes, such that her hair tries to spike like a pure-bred saiyan's, but doesn't quite have the stiffness for it. QUITE. And yet... it knows what it wants to do, even if it cannot do it.
Left to its own devices, it winds up forming the most abject, disorderly, tangled mass you've ever seen; worst hair days this side of Medusa. In merely ordinary hairstyles and with merely ordinary hair care products, it stages what can only be termed escape attempts and reverts to its natural state.
She's too proud to cut it short, so she typically wears her hair in some rather carefully braided arrangements that it can't escape from in a hurry. Prior to her preparations to train for the alien invasion, her biggest incentive to train en masque, which she did at least a little of, was just that she doesn't have such damn bad hair days as "Melanie Roberts."
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The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Obviously you and Bonny need to join forces and give Mato a buzzcut
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Lucky. Mitsuba's is high maintenance and doesn't confer pride.
Xillan Transformations
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
I'm just gonna blame Beyond for this
XILLAN TRANSFORMATIONS AND VARIANTS
Kaiser Form - Tainted Remnant of Calamitous Beasts: Long ago, the Xillan people's homeworld was assaulted by two immensely powerful dragons simultaneously. Though their battle weakened them enough for the greatest psychics alive to sacrifice themselves to slay them both, the blood they tore from each other stained both the land and the people, granting them this transformation - simultaneously weakening and strengthening them.
When achieved, the user may transform - their skin darkening to a blackish-grey, a pair of golden wings forming out of their ki extending from their back, and golden scales forming on their forearms and legs like armor. Their hair extends, their eyes turn yellow and slitted, their sclera turns black and their power skyrockets by 120 million. Furthermore, the 30 million power cap imposed upon them is lifted, allowing them to train to 100 million in their base normally. Furthermore, one's psychic power skyrockets - becoming five times as strong as it was before, with no limits imposed on it by the form.
However, this power comes with a cost - by accessing the form, the 'draconic' parts of the user begin developing a mind of their own. Their greed's and lusts, their desires and their anger come together and gain a 'sapience', becoming what one could call a 'reflection of the original'. This 'reflection' desires one thing - to become the dominant aspect of the person. Thus, anyone who achieves the form must, sooner or later, face this 'reflection' within their minds and overcome it - either destroying it completely, or casting it down voiceless into the depths of their mind.
Hell Kaiser - The Beast Freed: A vanishingly rare version of Kaiser Form, for good reason. Only attained when the 'dragon' side of one's mind wins and takes over, the form gains several key changes - the gold scales gains a reddish tint, the wings are shot with veins of hellish scarlet, and the eyes of the user become like flame, a shifting blaze of orange and bloody crimson light. In this state, the Kaiser Form's power begins to grow - seemingly slowly, but without limit, so those facing this will find themselves overwhelmed if the fight drags on too long. Furthermore, the state grants a completely new power - the ability to 'drink' the power and vitality of all living beings. Starting out, this is restricted to touch, but given enough time one will find the Hell Kaiser creating a draining aura around oneself. Ki, PSI, Magic, even the soul - all can be drained, and consumed. However, this drain does grant one vital weakness - certain attacks of sufficient 'purity' can exploit the draining effect, poisoning and lethally weakening the Hell Kaiser. Thus, it is recommended that the Spirit Bomb be employed against any of these one encounters.
Reichsritter Kaiser - Enhanced Remnant of the Beast: A 'technique' that could be better considered a transformation, discovered mere centuries after the form itself. When activated, one's sclera turns a light grey color, and the scales on their body turn a more whitish gold color.
In this state, the transformation's power triples in intensity and power - but, their psychic abilities and quirks can no longer be externally expressed, for to achieve the form one must devote all their will to increasing the performance of the form - pouring one's PSI through every muscle and vein like a river of Will. Thus, while useful for one searching for stronger Ki attacks, many psychics would discard this form as 'wasteful' and 'unneeded'.
Perfected Kaiser - Tamed Remnant of the Beast: Another enhanced version of Kaiser Form, achieved when the 'shadow' in the user's mind is defeated. When that happens, one finds certain limits removed from the form - now, one's base state can increase in power to 315 million, with the transformation's power trainable to 575 million for a total of 900 million. In this state, the ki in one's wings becomes denser, taking on a state more like flesh-and-blood wings to the eye. One is capable of achieving Reichsritter Kaiser in this state, at a weakened level of X2.5.
One problem that no-one has yet to discover, however, is that if one totally destroys the 'shadow' in their mind... this is their limit. They cannot grow any stronger beyond this.
XILLAN TRANSFORMATIONS AND VARIANTS
Kaiser Form - Tainted Remnant of Calamitous Beasts: Long ago, the Xillan people's homeworld was assaulted by two immensely powerful dragons simultaneously. Though their battle weakened them enough for the greatest psychics alive to sacrifice themselves to slay them both, the blood they tore from each other stained both the land and the people, granting them this transformation - simultaneously weakening and strengthening them.
When achieved, the user may transform - their skin darkening to a blackish-grey, a pair of golden wings forming out of their ki extending from their back, and golden scales forming on their forearms and legs like armor. Their hair extends, their eyes turn yellow and slitted, their sclera turns black and their power skyrockets by 120 million. Furthermore, the 30 million power cap imposed upon them is lifted, allowing them to train to 100 million in their base normally. Furthermore, one's psychic power skyrockets - becoming five times as strong as it was before, with no limits imposed on it by the form.
However, this power comes with a cost - by accessing the form, the 'draconic' parts of the user begin developing a mind of their own. Their greed's and lusts, their desires and their anger come together and gain a 'sapience', becoming what one could call a 'reflection of the original'. This 'reflection' desires one thing - to become the dominant aspect of the person. Thus, anyone who achieves the form must, sooner or later, face this 'reflection' within their minds and overcome it - either destroying it completely, or casting it down voiceless into the depths of their mind.
Hell Kaiser - The Beast Freed: A vanishingly rare version of Kaiser Form, for good reason. Only attained when the 'dragon' side of one's mind wins and takes over, the form gains several key changes - the gold scales gains a reddish tint, the wings are shot with veins of hellish scarlet, and the eyes of the user become like flame, a shifting blaze of orange and bloody crimson light. In this state, the Kaiser Form's power begins to grow - seemingly slowly, but without limit, so those facing this will find themselves overwhelmed if the fight drags on too long. Furthermore, the state grants a completely new power - the ability to 'drink' the power and vitality of all living beings. Starting out, this is restricted to touch, but given enough time one will find the Hell Kaiser creating a draining aura around oneself. Ki, PSI, Magic, even the soul - all can be drained, and consumed. However, this drain does grant one vital weakness - certain attacks of sufficient 'purity' can exploit the draining effect, poisoning and lethally weakening the Hell Kaiser. Thus, it is recommended that the Spirit Bomb be employed against any of these one encounters.
Reichsritter Kaiser - Enhanced Remnant of the Beast: A 'technique' that could be better considered a transformation, discovered mere centuries after the form itself. When activated, one's sclera turns a light grey color, and the scales on their body turn a more whitish gold color.
In this state, the transformation's power triples in intensity and power - but, their psychic abilities and quirks can no longer be externally expressed, for to achieve the form one must devote all their will to increasing the performance of the form - pouring one's PSI through every muscle and vein like a river of Will. Thus, while useful for one searching for stronger Ki attacks, many psychics would discard this form as 'wasteful' and 'unneeded'.
Perfected Kaiser - Tamed Remnant of the Beast: Another enhanced version of Kaiser Form, achieved when the 'shadow' in the user's mind is defeated. When that happens, one finds certain limits removed from the form - now, one's base state can increase in power to 315 million, with the transformation's power trainable to 575 million for a total of 900 million. In this state, the ki in one's wings becomes denser, taking on a state more like flesh-and-blood wings to the eye. One is capable of achieving Reichsritter Kaiser in this state, at a weakened level of X2.5.
One problem that no-one has yet to discover, however, is that if one totally destroys the 'shadow' in their mind... this is their limit. They cannot grow any stronger beyond this.
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Genon
Baron Awesomesauce the Magnificent
- Location
- Neptune
I'm just gonna blame Beyond for this
XILLAN TRANSFORMATIONS AND VARIANTS
Kaiser Form - Tainted Remnant of Calamitous Beasts: Long ago, the Xillan people's homeworld was assaulted by two immensely powerful dragons simultaneously. Though their battle weakened them enough for the greatest psychics alive to sacrifice themselves to slay them both, the blood they tore from each other stained both the land and the people, granting them this transformation - simultaneously weakening and strengthening them.
When achieved, the user may transform - their skin darkening to a blackish-grey, a pair of golden wings forming out of their ki extending from their back, and golden scales forming on their forearms and legs like armor. Their hair extends, their eyes turn yellow and slitted, their sclera turns black and their power skyrockets by 120 million. Furthermore, the 30 million power cap imposed upon them is lifted, allowing them to train to 100 million in their base normally. Furthermore, one's psychic power skyrockets - becoming five times as strong as it was before, with no limits imposed on it by the form.
However, this power comes with a cost - by accessing the form, the 'draconic' parts of the user begin developing a mind of their own. Their greed's and lusts, their desires and their anger come together and gain a 'sapience', becoming what one could call a 'reflection of the original'. This 'reflection' desires one thing - to become the dominant aspect of the person. Thus, anyone who achieves the form must, sooner or later, face this 'reflection' within their minds and overcome it - either destroying it completely, or casting it down voiceless into the depths of their mind.
Hell Kaiser - The Beast Freed: A vanishingly rare version of Kaiser Form, for good reason. Only attained when the 'dragon' side of one's mind wins and takes over, the form gains several key changes - the gold scales gains a reddish tint, the wings are shot with veins of hellish scarlet, and the eyes of the user become like flame, a shifting blaze of orange and bloody crimson light. In this state, the Kaiser Form's power begins to grow - seemingly slowly, but without limit, so those facing this will find themselves overwhelmed if the fight drags on too long. Furthermore, the state grants a completely new power - the ability to 'drink' the power and vitality of all living beings. Starting out, this is restricted to touch, but given enough time one will find the Hell Kaiser creating a draining aura around oneself. Ki, PSI, Magic, even the soul - all can be drained, and consumed. However, this drain does grant one vital weakness - certain attacks of sufficient 'purity' can exploit the draining effect, poisoning and lethally weakening the Hell Kaiser. Thus, it is recommended that the Spirit Bomb be employed against any of these one encounters.
Weighted Kaiser - Enhanced Remnant of the Beast: A 'technique' that could be better considered a transformation, discovered mere centuries after the form itself. When activated, one's sclera turns a light grey color, and the scales on their body turn a more whitish gold color.
In this state, the transformation's power triples in intensity and power - but, their psychic abilities and quirks can no longer be externally expressed, for to achieve the form one must devote all their will to increasing the performance of the form - pouring one's PSI through every muscle and vein like a river of Will. Thus, while useful for one searching for stronger Ki attacks, many psychics would discard this form as 'wasteful' and 'unneeded'.
Perfected Kaiser - Tamed Remnant of the Beast: Another enhanced version of Kaiser Form, achieved when the 'shadow' in the user's mind is defeated. When that happens, one finds certain limits removed from the form - now, one's base state can increase in power to 315 million, with the transformation's power trainable to 575 million for a total of 900 million. In this state, the ki in one's wings becomes denser, taking on a state more like flesh-and-blood wings to the eye. One is capable of achieving Weighted Kaiser in this state, at a weakened level of X2.5.
One problem that no-one has yet to discover, however, is that if one totally destroys the 'shadow' in their mind... this is their limit. They cannot grow any stronger beyond this.
Okay, I feel that for the purposes of keeping Luke competitive, the power multipliers (and limits) are too small. Complete Luke's form is already higher in PL than Perfected Kaiser. At that point, why bother ever trying to obtain it? If he's already broken this limit, wouldn't having a limit lower than his current power level arbitrarily applied weaken him? Mental stability is vital and all, but the Saiyans on the team will rapidly outclass him, and I have a feeling that Psychic power alone won't keep him relevant forever.
@Beyond the Horizon
Genon
Baron Awesomesauce the Magnificent
- Location
- Neptune
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Reminder that as a Bio Android he's operating on a completely different level capwise. This is for your average Xillan who's not a bugman
HorizonWanderer
Go beyond 'further beyond'.
- Location
- Betwixt and between broken skies
Luke's in a weird position considering he's a Bio-Android and all.
He certainly has some of the weaknesses; A cap for his PL, the need to confront the dragon side and all, as well as the whole 'He's still not totally complete, lacking key DNA structures,' and all.
But not really, no.
PSI is explicitly more powerful and pretty great at countering and destroying Ki related things, so a Fifteen times multiplier in Grand Kaiser is... Quite frankly it's ludicrously powerful. But considering what it is and what it does, that's to be expected. Not to mention that acquiring the two IERs already broke some caps, considering Luke's base untransformed Power Level is 1.1B right now. And he can go further. Much further.
Trust me, I'm not even remotely worried about Luke's 'viability'. V:
Anyway
@The Fourth Monado
I'd probably not call it 'Weighted' Kaiser, since that's not really the case with it. High Kaiser came to mind, but it's less an upgrade and more a side-grade... Hmmm. Oh! There it is; Reichsritter Kaiser. Or Royal Knight Emperor.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
I think you misread it. PSI is multiplied by 5 in base Kaiser form, but that is the only change in psychic power stated. The times three you were thinking of is to power level, not PSI.
I guess there might be a worry that come the time that the Saiyans are FPSSJ2's, he won't be able to muster comparable amounts of power, with a cap apparently somewhere, complete with the ominous warning that you can't grow any stronger after completely destroying the shadow in there mind.
Does the warning about the power level being impossible to increase apply to Xillian Deities?
I wonder if any Xillian has ever attained some form of enlightenment that let them skip the dragon voice in there head just from achieving a level of spiritual purity that there was nothing to make the monster from.
Does Hell Kaiser grant boosts to powers other than PSI and Magic?
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
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- Away
...literally when have I ever mentioned magic at all
HorizonWanderer
Go beyond 'further beyond'.
- Location
- Betwixt and between broken skies
Actually I was referencing something else that Fourth's been working on, and has since finished. Wasn't in this version of the list, though.
Specifically the SS2 equivalent form. Grand Kaiser Form.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Which I'm not telling anyone else about except Beyond