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macdjord said:
You realize Cauldron has other people, right? Hell, when Alexandria tried to provoke Skitter into attacking her (and had it go horribly right) it was because Cauldron wanted her to be sentenced to the Birdcage so they could vanish her and recruit her as an agent.




You're both assuming that 'prevent normals from sniping Capes' involves personally showing up at every would-be shooting to stop it. That's a terribly inefficient way of doing it. More plausibly, that Path would involve inculcating a culture in which 'just shoot them' is dismissed as a viable solution by the public at large. So, making sure that this guy who's planning to snipe the Villain who killed his dog not only fails but dies messily for his trouble, and it gets caught on camera. See to it this guy who's been in the news advocating for strong normal-human police response to Cape crime gets 'exposed' as a pedophile. Ensure that this TV Cape-drama's storyline about the normal wondering how he can help his Cape best friend ends with him deciding that trying to play sidekick is stupid and he can best help as moral support. Etc.



Note that the Brockton Bay Protectorate team was actually above average in size for a city of their population. The idea that they were being systematically shorted on transfers is fanon.



Because that's not what the BB experiment was about. The premise of the experiment was 'We've been propping up western civilization for the past 30 years, but pretty soon, even if we beat Scion, we're going to be unable to keep the wheel from falling off any longer; let's leave this one city to its own devices in order to get a preview of how the collapse will happen, so we can be better prepared for when it happens everywhere.'.



Fanon. Only Contessa was from a bronze-age civilization.



You are absolutely correct. Now, can you point to anyone in this current discussion who argued the opposite, or claimed that this story needed more people fighting?



Can you tell me with a straight face that you expect any of these things to happen and for it to significantly inconvenience the protagonists in any way?



Just post the omake when it's done. If you edit it into a post way back, nobody's going to see it.



And I find it bizarre how people who keep arguing that persist in assuming that anybody who says 'This story lacks drama' really means 'This story lacks shooty shooty violence'.
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And can I just say that everything about Canon Caldren just goes to show that they have a complete lack of 5 yearolds to vet the project!

"Hey, Jenny! I have a question for you, do you want to try to answer?"

"If I do can I go out an play, Dr. Mother?"

"Sure Jenny, that is not a problem."

"Okay, Dr. Mother! What's the question?"

"Well Jenny there is a parahuman, who is an insect master, who we want to come and work with us. What do you think would be the best way to get her to come and work with us?"

"Insect Master? What's that?"

"It means she controls bugs Jenny"

"Oh! Bugs are cool! Do you think she would want to play with me?"

"I don't know Jenny. We would have to ask her. How do you think we should get her to come and play with us?"

"Ooh, we could draw her a pretty picture and explain why we want her to come to play with us and ask her over?"

Edit: and thus Canon is derailed.
 
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In terms of tension, I can see a few sources.for it in the story.

1. The beginnings of an organizational cold war, as DARPA and other federal agencies begin clawing back power from the weird, sprawling abortion of an idea that is the PRT (a multinational law enforcement agency that answers to no single nation with seemingly arbitrary "checks" on its power.)

2. Taylor trying to relate to normal people in a school environment while not revealing confidential material ( If this were an anime, this would be where the mad scientist rival shows up to challenge her)

3. The young of the stakes that is Gravtech, and the uses for it. We already saw Armsmaster take and improve it with his tinker skills, what if Squealer/Mannequin gets their hands on it?

4. With the subspace study, a future where parahuman could have their powers turned off and blocked, and how that possibility drives the overall community.

Now, whether these get explored and expanded on is up in the air. But I am at least willing to follow along and see.
 
BF110C4 said:
Let's hope not, because unless she gets a really powerful gravshield already set up the most likely outcome of the discovery is Eidolon vaporizing BB to hide the evidence. Cauldron might be considered a bunch of incompetents, but is a bunch of incompetents not even slighty afraid of using the nuclear option when available.
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Or, you know, Taylor learning about the existence of Cauldron, because of the way she did it, triggers the Blindspot Protocols in PtV. And so they have no idea she found them.
FaerieKnight79 said:
According to Wildbow Contessa was quite busy. Her duties included the following:
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I've got a ficlet that I _think_ I posted over on QQ (because I won't post anything here) where the PRT/Protectorate gets imploded because at the time Contessa was working a higher priority path (presumably 'path to an army to kill Scion'), and she can only be in one place at a time. By the time 'keep the PRT/Protectorate valid' became the highest priority path again, all she could manage was to keep Legend in the Protectorate, rather than being declared a villain.
 
I have no idea what happened over the last few pages.

mp3.1415player said:
"Nothing happened," is something I see on my own stories, and lots of other people's writing, as code for "No one died in this chapter." 🤷‍♂️
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You know, you could give them what they asked for by simply having line breaks like
Juliet Lee Pinkerton from Russian River, CA has passed of a stroke, age 94
Ray E Smith of Skokie, IL, has died from lung cancer, age 73
Carol F Brown of Renton, WA was tragically killed in an accident, aged 42
...​

There's a couple billion people in the world, and time does pass in your stories, so there's a least a couple thousand people that died between the point that Legend was chatting with Emily and the limit he headed back to RCB's office.

Of course, none of those people are actually relevant to the story - but hey, they were only asking for 'more deaths'.

Note: Names totally made up. Any resemblance to anyone is purely coincidental.
 
macdjord said:
You're both assuming that 'prevent normals from sniping Capes' involves personally showing up at every would-be shooting to stop it. That's a terribly inefficient way of doing it. More plausibly, that Path would involve inculcating a culture in which 'just shoot them' is dismissed as a viable solution by the public at large. So, making sure that this guy who's planning to snipe the Villain who killed his dog not only fails but dies messily for his trouble, and it gets caught on camera. See to it this guy who's been in the news advocating for strong normal-human police response to Cape crime gets 'exposed' as a pedophile. Ensure that this TV Cape-drama's storyline about the normal wondering how he can help his Cape best friend ends with him deciding that trying to play sidekick is stupid and he can best help as moral support. Etc.
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Point for what you said to me but it really doesn't stop a lot of people going after a cape who's wronged them or had everything taken from them in them or trying to support a cape friend more actively. There is only so much ground they can cover that they may slip through the cracks or get lucky and take someone out they weren't supposed to or maybe discredit a reputable cape depending on what they are trying.

Even with PTV and door maker helping she is expected to keep standing on the proverbial land mine by herself thats a lot of stress on top of the fear of the glowing Oscar snapping and turning humanity into a bloody mist or chunky salsa.

Edit: In all honesty I have a dislike for Cauldron as I do Lisa Wildborn and some other characters and groups so it could be colouring my opinion. There are also canon aspects of worm that I really don't like or leave me wondering what the hell was being thought when it was wrote which is doing the same.
 
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imya t'loak said:
Of course, none of those people are actually relevant to the story - but hey, they were only asking for 'more deaths'.
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No! No one was asking for more deaths! No one was asking for more violence! All that's happened in the last few pages is some people suggesting that 'Hey, maybe the protagonists should actually be challenged and have to struggle occasionally?' and gotten mocked, flanderized, and strawmanned for it!


kelgar04 said:
Point for what you said to me but it really doesn't stop a lot of people going after a cape who's wronged them or had everything taken from them in them or trying to support a cape friend more actively. There is only so much ground they can cover that they may slip through the cracks or get lucky and take someone out they weren't supposed to or maybe discredit a reputable cape depending on what they are trying.
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And most of them will fail on their own. Besides, she doesn't have to stop every attack, just keep it from being routine.
 
Lycanthromancer said:
Well, I mean, the hookers wear the cow bells. Duh.
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You poor naive fool...

The hookers wear the cowbells while playing nude blackjack with you at a glass table, with a old fashioned in your off hand, a Cuban cigar between your lips, every hand you play is a winner, last call never comes, and hangovers and consequences are only a rumor of something that happens the day after, but you worry not for you are in Valhalla and the party never ends.
 
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sdwood said:
Or, you know, Taylor learning about the existence of Cauldron, because of the way she did it, triggers the Blindspot Protocols in PtV. And so they have no idea she found them.

I've got a ficlet that I _think_ I posted over on QQ (because I won't post anything here) where the PRT/Protectorate gets imploded because at the time Contessa was working a higher priority path (presumably 'path to an army to kill Scion'), and she can only be in one place at a time. By the time 'keep the PRT/Protectorate valid' became the highest priority path again, all she could manage was to keep Legend in the Protectorate, rather than being declared a villain.
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question can you share the name of the fic either here on a PM? it sounds like a interesting read
 
Lycanthromancer said:
I did call it, because that's the exact same thing that happened the last time I said anything, both my criticism and the response to it.
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TheBiggerFish said:
Yeah, sure, that'd totally work if literally anybody was asking for that.

NOBODY IS ACTUALLY ASKING FOR THAT.
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This time. You guys may or may not have valid criticism at this point, unfortunately many people and trolls have already walked this path before you and thoroughly laced it with salt.
 
cryptoam said:
Anyways..

How will Cauldron get discovered?
-Legend "defecting"?
-Deep dive into RCB after her attempts to probe for information passes a certain point?
-A Contessa plan getting derailed via butterfly effects from BB?
-Taylor discovering other worlds and an exploration mission by some military forces finding the hidden Cauldron base?
-Anything else?

Taking bets here! Wining this bet gives you the right to gloat about how you predicted the events and nothing else. Also providing internet cookies.

EDIT: FYI the two lists here are incomplete and not up to date. Please read further into the thread to find the most current version.
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Pretty sure the only reason Legend is even in Brockton Bay is so that Taylor can figure out interdimensional travel. He's not going to get anything useful and leave.
 
macdjord said:
You realize Cauldron has other people, right? Hell, when Alexandria tried to provoke Skitter into attacking her (and had it go horribly right) it was because Cauldron wanted her to be sentenced to the Birdcage so they could vanish her and recruit her as an agent.
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In theory they do, in practice this never got shown. The only members of Cauldron that got shown were the ones previously mentioned.

macdjord said:
You're both assuming that 'prevent normals from sniping Capes' involves personally showing up at every would-be shooting to stop it.
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Not assuming, basing off what Wildbow has said regarding it. Can't find the quote right this second, but he's mentioned Contessa stopping any attempt to snipe a cape individually in ways that make it seem the attempt failed because the target was a parahuman. Yes, I'm aware it's a horribly inefficient way of doing things. Doesn't change the fact that it's how the original author claimed things were done.

macdjord said:
You are absolutely correct. Now, can you point to anyone in this current discussion who argued the opposite, or claimed that this story needed more people fighting?
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You have noticed the argument got started by people claiming "nothing happens and there's no tension", right? The sad fact is that 90% of the time, the people complaining that a story has no 'tension', 'conflict', or that 'nothing happens' do so because there is no fighting. You want to claim nothing caused problems for Taylor? Her best friend is in a coma, how is that not qualifying as a 'bad thing'? Oh, wait, maybe you'd rather Angus had laughed Taylor out of the university initially. Remember that he got a practical demonstration first, then was told "here's how and why it works". Or maybe you think he should have decided to claim her theories and research as his own? Angus had admitted upfront that he was having trouble following along with the math. If he'd tried to claim the theory was his own, the attempt would have fallen apart the moment he couldn't thoroughly explain the theory. Of course Taylor hasn't had any significant issues yet. She showed up with a theory which is so revolutionary that nobody else would be able to try claiming it as their own due to not understanding it, and she did so with practical evidence that the theory is correct. Or at least good enough to engineer practical devices based on it.

And here's the thing, there was a time skip. We don't know what sort of issues Taylor and her dad had already. We do know there will be issues coming up, due to Costa-Brown at the very least.


Amberion said:
Pretty sure the only reason Legend is even in Brockton Bay is so that Taylor can figure out interdimensional travel. He's not going to get anything useful and leave.
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He already "got nothing useful", and he already left. His departure portal was scanned, logged, and Taylor will go over the DATA when she wakes up.
 
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mp3.1415player said:
This story is also only 11 chapters so far, and has hardly started, so it's early days to have lots of tension of any form. That said, there are all sorts of things building up around the place, so who knows what will happen later?


Anyway, I've said my piece, so now I'm going to write more words in which nothing happens.

Or... am I?
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For tension, there are quite a lot of different ways to release it in a fic...
The standard go to seems to be violence and death.
Very few writers use the comedy/crack to release the tension, of which you are one of the better ones IMO.
Something could go right for the protaganist of the fic. For example, in a HP fic, Volde could fall in the shower and break his neck. This takes all his DE's with him into the great beyond.
It all depends on the writer and how imaginative they are.

As for the words, would they possibly involve lizards in trenchcoats and fedora's?
 
mp3.1415player said:
Creative works are subjective. There is no one 'correct' way to write a story, or compose a song, or paint a picture. There is merely what the creator wants to do, and if some other people like it, wonderful.
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Although I would like to add, that if the author/artist wants to produce with the intention of earning money (which is not the case in writing fanfiction, because you are missing the rights to do so), there are techniques/general outlines that can be used to get as many people as possible on board. Also, good grammar almost always helps.

But the only reasons to use those while writing fanfiction are:
1. training: you want to see if you can pull it of, and not want to go through the issues original fiction has. Like figuring out the characters, setting and potentially even general story. There is fanfiction out there that are essentially retelling after all...
2. it is your natural way of writing, or close to it (every of those techniques began as a book that became popular and then was analyzed).
3. you simply want to. And that reason is part of the other two as well.
Pinklestia said:
In other words "No one is forcing you to read this story, if you do not like it, just stop reading and find something else to do."
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I can only agree. It is a bit different in school (some of the things that are called classic/ modern classic/ high literature are bad. Some of them are beyond the pale bad in my opinion. Some of them should not be read by 12 year olds. But that is school for you (I still have scars from that particular book, and no, I will not mention how it is called. Suffice to say, it spoke about sexual themes.))
mp3.1415player said:
So there are things that haven't happened yet. This is pretty much how it goes :)
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And then there are things going on in this universe that have not yet been shown. Because showing everything going on in the Universe is impossible.

It is even likely, 😲, that there are important things that have already happened that have Not been shown yet. Some might only be shownafter they got important, and some might never be shown at all. The horror :)
 
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So, can we actually summarize all of this into a newspaper title? A sensationalistic one, like "Author claims they will write their own stories despite protests". A clickbaity one would be "Daring author won't change controversial stance, many protest".

I actually support the discussion started on the role of conflict in stories that lack it, but not to see it mocked as "they just want violence". People posed serious questions here about Mp3's pacing, which were answered. Some then rewrote their argument as asking for more violence, when they were actually asking why nobody from the protagonist to support characters were actually having hardships.

I can see some slight character cardboarding, in Dragon and RCB in particular, but the story is still in its setting up phase, so I'm not against it. And I know that Mp3 has enough experience in their writing style to avoid making people feel flat, even if the story pace has very few highs and lows.

I guess my attitude towards reading is the best after all (no shame here :)): I read what I want, I stop if I don't like it, I sometimes wait some time before reading it again in case I or the story changed. Oh, and I provide criticism as criticism, not as requesting changes.

Edit: @mp3.1415player, you are a top-tier bait for this kind of discussion, you know? I saw the same level of repetition only on Ensou's stories (and I felt I had to comment there too, what are the chances :whistle:)
 
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E M Berner said:
This I simply don't get and never have despite multiple people trying to explain it. I have though had a physics student tell me that one of the first things they get told is that if infinity or a singularity shows up in your equations you've done something wrong only to hear a few lessons later about the multiple infinities and singularities in modern physics, including general and special relativity.

It is apparently one of the signs that the theories are incomplete, another sign being that they break down and produce gobbledygook at various scales and extremes. After that they then try to use these theories, knowing that they break down at extremes, to explain what would happen to things outside the scope of the theory, ie ftl travel and communications.

Our modern theories explaining the universe work fine so long as you use them within their scope and don't try to apply them for things where they break down. So General Relativity for large space stuff, quantum theory for the minuscule stuff and a number of other theories that work well for their small piece of the whole. You dont use GR to calculate magnetic resonance and you don't use quantum field theory to describe the motion of galaxies because those things are outside the scope of the theories.

Traveling or communicating faster than light is not within the scope of any theory we have today. If we don't find another theory or phenomenon we can use to break into that scope those things remain in the realm of the impossible. But if FTL is a thing that is possible than I imagine that we will find that all the theories we have today might be worse than useless for describing it unless modified quite heavily.

TL;DR Using todays (somewhat incomplete) theories to describe FTL travel or communication is like trying to describe the physics of stellar fusion using Empedocles four elements, worse than useless because it might give the appearance of providing an answer and giving false confidence in that answer.
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So you're right that there are no methods in modern physics you travel faster than light and as such if it is possible then it's outside the scope of special relativity. The faster than light==back in time thing, however is within the scope of special relativity. It's weird and counter intuitive (which makes sense as there's no reason to expect that intuition developed at low speed should translate well to high speed) but in order for the universe to have consistent outcomes it needs to have inconsistent ordering.

This means that for any two events that are further apart in distance than in time it's possible for two observers to disagree which came first. This effect is well understood, holds up in experiments and most of the time doesn't matter at all.

Of course, when you go beyond physics you might as well just say "a wizard did it" so you can invent rules to say you can't go back in time in a way that lets you interact with your own past. What you can't do (without ignoring physics completely, anyway) is get rid of all those observers (mostly radiation) that see you arrive before you leave.
 
Honestly, I think that the primary thing that makes it difficult to see the tension in mppi´s stories is that he prefers to write long and thorough. As a result, whatever tension is there gets stretched like a piece of spaghetti in a black hole, so it takes looking at the bigger picture to notice it because it almost never shows up in the immediate scene.
 
Oh for... Is this still going on?

OK. New thread rule. I'm going to write what I want, and people can read it or not. If you don't like what I do, or how I do it, or how I respond to people complaining about these points, please get your entertainment somewhere else. I'm not going to respond to any more arguments of this nature here. I've got more important things to do.

Anyone who wants a story written to their exact requirements is free to write it themselves :)
 
Hmm going back a few updates with that cloak I have to wonder how far taylor can shrink it down I know quite a few Special Operations units who would kill for cloaking.

I also have to wonder when the aliens will cover power cells and cold fusion or if Taylor will just do herself or maybe one of the people she is working with.

Edit: also if it can be shrunk enough Taylor's anti grav tech has a promising future in health and safety as well as extreme sports.

Hey it also makes jet packs practical.
 
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