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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

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If I'm counting correctly we are tied.
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Adhoc vote count started by Miner249er on Nov 7, 2017 at 1:10 AM, finished with 213 posts and 76 votes.
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[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.

i as everyone knows quite well. i like this plan
 
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[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
 
Anyway, I don't see how this improves the raiding doctrine. It is now clear that it relies almost entirely on a single flaw in Rachni tactics, namely their tendency not to guard relays properly.

All they need to do to stop the raids is to solve that.

They don't need to redeploy massive fleets to hunt down the raiders. They don't need to guard literally every little thing. They don't need major doctrinal innovation. Just guard the relay properly, and the raiders die.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Anyway, I don't see how this improves the raiding doctrine. It is now clear that it relies almost entirely on a single flaw in Rachni tactics, namely their tendency not to guard relays properly.

All they need to do to stop the raids is to solve that.

They don't need to redeploy massive fleets to hunt down the raiders. They don't need to guard literally every little thing. They don't need major doctrinal innovation. Just guard the relay properly, and the raiders die.
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Ebbor, if it was that simple, they would already be doing it. They don't keep large slices of their fleet back because they think the challenge makes things more fun.

What combination of words do I have to say before you accept that I have not presented an option that is essentially flawed?
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.

Also, guys - how good in terms of production was Hades Gamma?
Because Rachni there may or may not be on the brink of falling at the hands of batarians.

P.S. When will we get some internal relations long term projects? Common people of our Republic could opt for rejoining Citadel Space, if given enough incentive, and one of our closest lieutenants is a stout Republics supporter...
 
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[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
 
=_= This new info makes a lot of sense. Time to ask dice i guess. 5+ for R.

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[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
VoidZero threw 1 10-faced dice. Reason: R or D Total: 6
6 6
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
 
You know, there is technically one good reason to go for the Raiding doctrine....

The Reapers do something similar, except with fleets a hundred + strong and head straight for everyone's homeworld.

Poke it now and the idea of how to fend them off becomes viable....

Unless we wake up Nasara in a couple of years, decides that 'we have progressed too quickly' and arranges for our demise before it gets too far off the ground....
 
That's probably the most contested vote in this quest's history - something like 80 people voted about doctrine, more than 70 voted for one of two most popular options.
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
It was a closely behind the defense doctrine in my mind, but with your write up I choose this one for these reasons:
  • It keeps the Rachni reeling. We have already done great enough damage to them by taking that hub system (cutting off an entire front of their war with the Citadel.) to make it worth the expense to smash us. And they have strength enough to smash through greater defenses then we can erect if they really want to. This keeps our momentum and forces them to react in ways that do not play to their strengths, or resort brute forcing it inefficiently. It is unconventional, and we cannot expect to win/survive a conventional war against the Rachni if we piss them off enough, which we have already done.
  • It will help the Citadel fronts.
  • It is simply perfect for our Battlecruisers, playing to our current strengths.
  • We should be able to increase the number/quality of our defense platforms to fortify our relays without a relying too much on our (not well suited for this) fleets I think, lessening the costs of this doctrine greatly in my mind (we would still be ****ed if they get through and start attacking our planets mind).
  • It is just plain interesting.
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.

Just in case the threadmark resets the tally - I vaguely recall that being a thing that happens?
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
 
@PoptartProdigy how does raiding doctrine deal with pissing the Rachini off enough to go to priority number one on their list? It seems that if they want to send a doomstack after us at the expense of continuing to push into Citadel space nothing would stop them from doing so except the opportunity costs of not continuing to push into Citadel Space?
 
Void Stalker said:
@PoptartProdigy how does raiding doctrine deal with pissing the Rachini off enough to go to priority number one on their list? It seems that if they want to send a doomstack after us at the expense of continuing to push into Citadel space nothing would stop them from doing so except the opportunity costs of not continuing to push into Citadel Space?
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Presumably because it would leave their defenses weake enough to give the council a free shot at their homeworlds.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Ebbor, if it was that simple, they would already be doing it. They don't keep large slices of their fleet back because they think the challenge makes things more fun.

What combination of words do I have to say before you accept that I have not presented an option that is essentially flawed?
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The problem is that your proposed doctrine relies entirely on the Rachni never having the common sense to protect their relays. For example, look at this section:

Raiding doctrine has two objectives, either one of which constitutes a successful campaign. The first is to wreck strategically-significant amounts of hostile infrastructure, limiting their ability to resupply their forces away from their industrial heartlands and enabling conventional offensives of your own. This is the ideal. However, an acceptable secondary outcome is to force the enemy to deploy massive fleet elements all throughout their space in an effort to flush out or contain your raiders. Ordinarily, this would be relatively simple for the Rachni; a strong cruiser force should be able to hunt down any raiding fleet in relative security, in conjunction with defense platforms. However, you have battlecruisers. In order to address battlecruisers, the Rachni need to position massive fleets of cruisers or outright dreadnoughts in good response positions on active status. Neither of these is a cheap option. Neither of these is a reliable option. Either results in the Rachni's ability to initiate offensives against you being critically hampered as much of their strength is tied up elsewhere, consuming oceans of supplies to keep running as they police their own space
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You assume that the Rachni need massive fleets of Dreadnoughts and cruisers to hunt down the raiding parties. But they don't need to chase them down. They know they'll come through the relays, so why not stop them there?

Reinforcing the relays is far cheaper and far easier to organize than chasing. After all, even simply shifting all the units at the relay to active status would tremendously damage the raiding effort. In addition, floating around must be far cheaper than actively hunting someone down. Also, far fewer units would be needed to reinforce the relays, instead of forming several hunting fleets.

So, the most likely outcome of the raiding doctrine is the creation of strong Rachni fleets at the junctions, with both the ships and supply to attack us.

Given that their existing doctrine already focusses on defending relays, it's not even a doctrinal change.

So, what you need to explain is why the Rachni would rather suffer infrastructure damage or the massive cost of sending hunting fleets, when they could just lock down the relay.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
You assume that the Rachni need massive fleets of Dreadnoughts and cruisers to hunt down the raiding parties. But they don't need to chase them down.

Reinforcing the relays is far cheaper and far easier to organize. Simply shifting all the units at the relay to active status would tremendously damage the raiding effort. Floating around will be far cheaper than actively hunting someone down. Also, far fewer units would be needed.

So, the most likely outcome of the raiding doctrine is the creation of strong Rachni fleets at the junctions, with both the ships and supply to attack us.
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Well...
Kepler Verge - there we should not raid, but outright clean up.
Hades Gamma - Rachni have to fortify 2 relays at once, for any of them would allow raiders to escape. If they have enough forces there... Bad luck, yes. It happens.
Maroon Sea & Nubian Expanse... Go bold or go home; Going full circle by Caleston rift, with visiting Citadel space or Quarian worlds by Terminus ways optional.

Commerce raiding on galactic scale is unheard of; We can assume that Rachni divert precious little naval forces to clusters with no immediate military importance.

Also, what our archived Extranet sources can tell us about Quarian state?
And can we along with raiding force going into Hades Gamma send enough hardware for us to link into Extranet and download everything we can (If/When we send it)?
 
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Dwergar said:
Commerce raiding on galactic scale is unheard of; We can assume that Rachni divert precious little naval forces to clusters with no immediate military importance
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We can assume that they'll try to stop us raiding. If they do so, they'll divert forces to do so. The question is why they would prefer to use fleets to hunt us down instead of reinforcing the relays.

Protecting the relays should require far fewer ships.
 
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.
[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.

Strategy, tactics, politics, economics, and killing space-bugs. Truly there is nothing more sci-fi than this, and I am loving it!
 
10ebbor10 said:
We can assume that they'll try to stop us raiding. If they do so, they'll divert forces to do so. The question is why they would prefer to use fleets to hunt us down instead of reinforcing the relays.

Protecting the relays should require far fewer ships.
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They'll try. But they have to know that we're raiding first.
It would take time for them to develop raiding-resistant strategy; First fleet-force raid would be a success, and if we implement easily identifiable patterns only to break them later, this doctrine would last us a decade, while:
a) Destroying Rachni's ability to advance into Sentry Omega cluster.
b) Giving us time to build more fleets.
c) Getting us a contact with allied tier 2 / tier 1 polity with perspective of further advancing our technological knowledge and thus giving us better tools to fight against Rachni.

Though, I hope that we will actively implement this doctrine after pacifying Attican Beta and Kepler Verge.
 
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My entire point is that they don't need any fancy patterns, doctrines or stuff like that.

All they need to do is reinforce the relays. Just the same, bogstandard application of the usual tactics.

Raid patterns don't really matter when the enemy has to go through the very same amount of limited checkpoints that you need to be guarding anyway.
 
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