He's loyal to France. What was he supposed to do? Die with the royalty? Die with the revolutionaires? Die with Napoleon? He was practical and followed Real Politik or would you rather have a fanatic who will never change side's eventhough they were losing and hurting France? And he did not betray anyone at slightest hint of trouble he left these group when it was obvious they would destroy France. You also for some reason ignored my comment how he saved France from the butchering table at Vienna even after Napoleon did his stunt. He's no more evil or oppertunistic then any competant diplomat in the 19th centuary.
I didn't ignore anything. He had his talent for diplomacy of course, otherwise he would not have been useful to his subsequent masters. There is a reason, why they kept him around in high office, despite his obvious flaws. Talleyrand's luck was that his betrayals were always at the right time and he was never punished for them. Unlike a certain Benedict Arnold, whom he met during the course of his life. He was Machiavelli's greatest student. Unfortunately for the both of them, Realpolitik was despised both then and now. A man willing to fight to the last for his King, country, etc. was the pinnacle of virtue. A man willing the betray them to save his own skin was not.
Talleyrand's luck was that his betrayals were always at the right time and he was never punished for them. Unlike a certain Benedict Arnold, whom he met during the course of his life.
You're comparing Apple's to oranges. The French and American revolutions were widly different things. Arnold betrayed the US because he felt that his contribution were not rewarded while Talleyrand left the royalty because they were done and betrayed the nation, he then left the revolutionaires because they couldn't form an effective goverment even though the Austrian and Prussian army were marching on Paris and then he left Napoleon because he kept pissing off Europe and making unneeded wars.
Unfortunately for the both of them, Realpolitik was despised both then and now. A man willing to fight to the last for his King, country, etc. was the pinnacle of virtue. A man willing the betray them to save his own skin was not.
He betrayed factions like the americans betrayed the British in 1776, maybe oppertunistic but with good reasons. Name me one great succesful leader who did not compremise on his virtue in the name of the greater good. If we, the questors, can consolidate Napoleon's conquest and keep ourselfs from declaring stupid vanity wars then he won't 'betray' us.
Also I'm tired and I'm going to bed now, maybe I'll pick this up when I'm awake.
And when Napoleons defeat became obvious and imminent, he worked out a deal with the Allies that would ensure France suffered the least amount of damage and loss of territory possible.
Tallyrand is also the one who made Napoleon's defeat inevitable by sabotaging his attempts to make final terms with Tsar Alexander. Tallyrand is one of the key reasons for the falling out between France and Russia. That's my problem. Switching sides to get France a better deal after his defeat was fine. What he did wrt Russia was just him being an idiot obsessed with outdated ideas about balance of power.
Scheduled vote count started by Tjf on Dec 6, 2023 at 12:27 AM, finished with 76 posts and 39 votes.
[X] Plan serious Napoleon
-[X] As a Frenchman - Corsica has its charms, but only by seeing the vastness and refinement of France have you realised how small your home island is, how backwards it is. The future, your future, is clearly in France, and that's how you'll identify yourself.
-[X] Political Science - Overblown stories of history bore you. What interests you is the real world, the way power really works, and the kinds of things that go on behind the closed doors of Versailles. Your copies of Machiavelli's The Prince and Plato's Republic are worn from frequent cover to cover reads, and you constantly have to refrain from annoying your friends with cynical remarks. (+5 Subterfuge, +3 Intelligence, Gain Trait - Cynic)
-[X] Business - Your family is, to put it bluntly, dirt poor. Business isn't exactly an honorable profession for a noble, but even on Corsica you've seen the bourgeois grow fabulously wealthy through sound investments and global trade. If this whole military thing doesn't work out, maybe coin could be a better way of achieving your destiny than lead? (+5 Subterfuge, +3 Charm, Gain Trait - Businessman)
-[X] Studied your ass off - Other students may have laughed at you for keeping your nose stuck in books all the time, but you remembered that you'd been sent here for a purpose. To achieve your destiny, you needed to learn as much as humanly possible. (+5 Intelligence, can take a second school subject, gaining another trait, but not the stat points.)
-[X] La Fere Regiment D'Artillerie - An artillery regiment, hmm? Yes, with your mathematics scores, that makes sense. (Gain Trait - Gunner)
-[X] Find your gaze drifting away from men and women alike. You're happy to see your comrades are enjoying themselves, but such attractions mean nothing to you. (No romance will occur in the quest - though political marriages will still be available)
[X] Plan: Ocean Bounty
-[X] As a Frenchman - Corsica has its charms, but only by seeing the vastness and refinement of France have you realised how small your home island is, how backwards it is. The future, your future, is clearly in France, and that's how you'll identify yourself.
-[X] Languages - As a soldier, and a nobleman, there's no telling where the winds of war and marriage might take you. You've poured your energy and time into perfecting the French you learned at Autun, and speak it with perfect grammar and no accent. With French down, you've also learned another language. (+5 Intelligence, +3 Charm, Gain Trait - Linguist, Choose one extra language besides French and Italian to be fluent in)
--[X] Additional Language: Turkish
-[X] Became the target of bullies - Determined not to let them victimise you, you learned how to brawl, and how to fight off your enemies even when they gang up on you. Hell, you kind of prefer when they come in a group, now - the more the merrier, you say as you crack your knuckles. (+5 Valor, Gain Trait - We happy few!)
-[X] His Majesty's Ship of the Line Magnanime - Wait, what? Merde! Someone screwed up the paperwork again. You're not a sous-lieutenant in the army at all, you're a midshipman in the navy! Sorry to lose you, Buonaparte. (Gain Trait - Seaman)
-[X] Would absolutely be among them if you weren't so tired. You're a sucker for a pretty girl. (Napoleon will have the option to initiate romances with female characters)
[X] Plan: Emperor of the...Corsicans?
-[X]As a Corsican, through and through - Try as they might to beat the 'backwards, almost pagan' Corsican manners out of you, the monks have failed to subdue the love you hold for your homeland. You'll learn French, and you'll live in France, if that's what fate has in store, but deep in your heart you think of yourself as Corsican, with an accent to match.
-[X] Classics - Brienne has an extensive library, and you made use of it. You practically devoured the works of Homer and Virgil, as well as the biographies of Alexander and Caesar. Stories of ancient kings and leaders have taught you a little about how to lead, and made you a touch more refined. (+5 Charisma, +3 Intelligence, Gain trait - Classicist)
-[X] Political Science - Overblown stories of history bore you. What interests you is the real world, the way power really works, and the kinds of things that go on behind the closed doors of Versailles. Your copies of Machiavelli's The Prince and Plato's Republic are worn from frequent cover to cover reads, and you constantly have to refrain from annoying your friends with cynical remarks. (+5 Subterfuge, +3 Intelligence, Gain Trait - Cynic)
-[X] Studied your ass off - Other students may have laughed at you for keeping your nose stuck in books all the time, but you remembered that you'd been sent here for a purpose. To achieve your destiny, you needed to learn as much as humanly possible. (+5 Intelligence, can take a second school subject, gaining another trait, but not the stat points.)
-[X] His Majesty's Ship of the Line Magnanime - Wait, what? Merde! Someone screwed up the paperwork again. You're not a sous-lieutenant in the army at all, you're a midshipman in the navy! Sorry to lose you, Buonaparte. (Gain Trait - Seaman)
-[X] Would absolutely be among them if you weren't so tired. You're a sucker for a pretty girl. (Napoleon will have the option to initiate romances with female characters)
[x] As a Frenchman - Corsica has its charms, but only by seeing the vastness and refinement of France have you realised how small your home island is, how backwards it is. The future, your future, is clearly in France, and that's how you'll identify yourself.
[x] Political Science - Overblown stories of history bore you. What interests you is the real world, the way power really works, and the kinds of things that go on behind the closed doors of Versailles. Your copies of Machiavelli's The Prince and Plato's Republic are worn from frequent cover to cover reads, and you constantly have to refrain from annoying your friends with cynical remarks. (+5 Subterfuge, +3 Intelligence, Gain Trait - Cynic)
[x] Befriended some poor boys - Sure, the snobs might look down upon you, but that in itself can be valuable. You've gotten to know Brienne's lowest social strata, the boys without fancy names or bank accounts, whose parents were only barely able to send them here in the first place. They treat you as one of their own, now. That's not too helpful in an absolute monarchy, but if some sort of Revolution were to break out... (+5 Charisma, Gain Trait - One of us!)
[X] Plan: Man Against All the Odds
-[X]As a Corsican, through and through - Try as they might to beat the 'backwards, almost pagan' Corsican manners out of you, the monks have failed to subdue the love you hold for your homeland. You'll learn French, and you'll live in France, if that's what fate has in store, but deep in your heart you think of yourself as Corsican, with an accent to match.
-[X] Languages - As a soldier, and a nobleman, there's no telling where the winds of war and marriage might take you. You've poured your energy and time into perfecting the French you learned at Autun, and speak it with perfect grammar and no accent. With French down, you've also learned another language. (+5 Intelligence, +3 Charm, Gain Trait - Linguist, Choose one extra language besides French and Italian to be fluent in)
--[X] Extra Fluent Language - German
-[X] Became the target of bullies - Determined not to let them victimise you, you learned how to brawl, and how to fight off your enemies even when they gang up on you. Hell, you kind of prefer when they come in a group, now - the more the merrier, you say as you crack your knuckles. (+5 Valor, Gain Trait - We happy few!)
-[X] Le Regiment De Saxe Hussars - A Hussar regiment, eh? Good luck commanding those Germans, they're a rowdy bunch. (Gain Trait - Cavalier)
-[X] Find your gaze drifting more towards the men. (Napoleon will have the option to initiate romances with male characters - though political marriages with women are still available)
[X] Plan: Finishing Theodore's Mission
-[X]As a Corsican, through and through - Try as they might to beat the 'backwards, almost pagan' Corsican manners out of you, the monks have failed to subdue the love you hold for your homeland. You'll learn French, and you'll live in France, if that's what fate has in store, but deep in your heart you think of yourself as Corsican, with an accent to match.
-[X] Classics - Brienne has an extensive library, and you made use of it. You practically devoured the works of Homer and Virgil, as well as the biographies of Alexander and Caesar. Stories of ancient kings and leaders have taught you a little about how to lead, and made you a touch more refined. (+5 Charisma, +3 Intelligence, Gain trait - Classicist)
-[X] Business - Your family is, to put it bluntly, dirt poor. Business isn't exactly an honorable profession for a noble, but even on Corsica you've seen the bourgeois grow fabulously wealthy through sound investments and global trade. If this whole military thing doesn't work out, maybe coin could be a better way of achieving your destiny than lead? (+5 Subterfuge, +3 Charm, Gain Trait - Businessman)
-[X] Studied your ass off - Other students may have laughed at you for keeping your nose stuck in books all the time, but you remembered that you'd been sent here for a purpose. To achieve your destiny, you needed to learn as much as humanly possible. (+5 Intelligence, can take a second school subject, gaining another trait, but not the stat points.)
-[X] La Fere Regiment D'Artillerie - An artillery regiment, hmm? Yes, with your mathematics scores, that makes sense. (Gain Trait - Gunner)
-[X] Eye up the beauties of both genders. (Napoleon will have the option to initiate romances with characters of either gender.)
[X] Plan: Emperor of the...Corsicans?
-[X]As a Corsican, through and through - Try as they might to beat the 'backwards, almost pagan' Corsican manners out of you, the monks have failed to subdue the love you hold for your homeland. You'll learn French, and you'll live in France, if that's what fate has in store, but deep in your heart you think of yourself as Corsican, with an accent to match.
-[X] Classics - Brienne has an extensive library, and you made use of it. You practically devoured the works of Homer and Virgil, as well as the biographies of Alexander and Caesar. Stories of ancient kings and leaders have taught you a little about how to lead, and made you a touch more refined. (+5 Charisma, +3 Intelligence, Gain trait - Classicist)
-[X] Became the target of bullies - Determined not to let them victimise you, you learned how to brawl, and how to fight off your enemies even when they gang up on you. Hell, you kind of prefer when they come in a group, now - the more the merrier, you say as you crack your knuckles. (+5 Valor, Gain Trait - We happy few!)
-[X] La Fere Regiment D'Artillerie - An artillery regiment, hmm? Yes, with your mathematics scores, that makes sense. (Gain Trait - Gunner)
-[X] Eye up the beauties of both genders. (Napoleon will have the option to initiate romances with characters of either gender.)
(So I'll post a information threadmark with Nappy's stats in a bit. As for this post, think of it as half continuation of chargen, and half the beginning of the quest. Btw, I had most of this prewritten, so don't expect every update to be this quick.)
8th of April, 1792 - Ajaccio, Corsica
"Buonaparte's first instinct, despite being an officer of the royal army and a commander in the National Guard, was to think of revenge, to punish his adversaries."
- Philip Dwyer, Napoleon: The Path to Power 1769-1799
"You look very distinguished, mon lieutenant." The French painter declares, his refined Parisian accent, so uncommon here at the very edge of the French Republic, carrying a distinct tone of pride as he shows off his portrait of you. You're quiet for a moment, studying your own youthful features and unruly mane, reflected onto the canvas.
"It's Lieutenant-Colonel." You grunt, your own self-pride no less obvious than the painter's. "At least on Corsica. I might only be Second-Lieutenant in France, but here I'm Lieutenant-Colonel Buonaparte. Even if it's only a National Guard position." Of course, given that you're currently AWOL from your post in France you can't be certain that that Second-Lieutenant rank still exists for you, but it doesn't bear thinking about. You'll cross that bridge when you come to it. Idly, you think over why you even wanted the rank in the first place:
Choose one:
[] Ambition - You've always known you were destined for great things. A higher rank is recognition of your higher worth. Gains Trait: Ambitious (+10 to any roll related to achieving a higher rank, or increasing social status)
[] Calculation - A battalion of muskets at your back tends to make people listen to you. You're here on Corsica to help increase the influence of your mother and the rest of your family, and your rank helps you do that. Gains Trait: Calculating (+10 to political intrigue rolls)
[] Duty - Corsica is the land of your birth, regardless of whether you consider yourself French or Corsican. You owe it to the people here to help keep them safe. Gains Trait: Dutiful (Being known as a man of duty increases your popularity - as long as you keep being seen as fulfilling that duty. Certain actions that would otherwise seem self-serving, like taking over the country, could potentially be framed as you doing your duty.)
[] Tirelessness - As odd as it might sound, you took the job because you were bored. Ever since your childhood, you've burned with an inexhaustible energy that leaves your teachers and superiors both impressed and concerned in equal measure. Time spent without doing anything productive just seems wrong to you. Gain Trait: Tireless (Can perform one more action per turn than you normally would)
(QM Note: Traits skipped here can be picked up at a later point)
"A man with his feet in two worlds, hmm?" The painter, a youth of around your own tender age of 22, says, seeming to see you a little more clearly than you'd like. "You can deliver this to my mother's house in town. Letizia Buonaparte is her name, anyone here will be able to tell you where it is. You'll receive payment then." You dodge the question, and the painter frowns. "Our deal was payment upon completion, not delivery..." He grumbles. "But, since I've been chased out of Paris by David's thugs, and have no desire to be chased out of Corsica by your thugs... Fine."
You step out of the artist's Parisian style workshop, head held high as you stride through the city of your birth. In many ways, you think, little has changed since then. People still crowd the town cathedral in preparation for the Easter festivities. Farmers and fishers hawk the fruits of their labors in the markets while lesser nobles laze about in the Mediterranean sun in a display that wouldn't look out of place thousands of years ago, when this place was inhabited by Carthaginians and Greeks. On the other hand... some things have changed. Corsica, the home of the vendetta, is no stranger to animosity, but the level of distrust and anger that people here have shown in the wake of the Revolution goes beyond the normal intensity involved in inter-family blood feuds. The population here in Ajaccio and the rest of the island is divided along political lines. Devoted Catholics, many here believe that the Revolution is an affront to tradition, and support a restoration of the monarchy. Others, despising the way the old order kept Corsicans subjugated, are strong supporters of the Revolution. The third faction, represented by your one-time idol Pasquale Paoli, reject both sides, despising all Frenchmen as foreign occupiers, whatever ideology they might use to disguise their expansionism. Finally, just to increase tensions a little further, there's a garrison of French soldiers on the island. Many have treated the inhabitants well, but you can't deny that some behave like arrogant prigs. You're a part of the National Guard, an ostensibly revolutionary organisation, but you:
Choose one:
[] You're a revolutionary among revolutionaries. You believe deeply that the destruction of the Ancien Regime will lead to the creation of a new, brighter world, where all men are equal, and tyranny will be wiped away by the march of progress. You might be a moderate, wanting to keep France a constitutional monarchy, or more of a radical, seeking the abolition of the monarchy and the establishment of a Republic. Either way, Liberty, Equality and Fraternity are the guiding principles of your life.
[] You believe, secretly, that the revolution has gone too far, and is bringing France to the precipice of disaster. The Ancien Regime had its failings, sure, but it ensured stability and glory for France for centuries, and to erase that bulwark is to court the total annihilation of society. You might be a conservative, who seeks to moderate the Revolution's excesses, or a reactionary who seeks its outright destruction. Either way, stability and order are the guiding principles of your life.
[] See virtues and drawbacks in both ideologies.
[] Genuinely don't care. Ideology only has meaning insofar as it can sway people to follow you. You sincerely believe that your beliefs should work for you - not the other way around. You'll proclaim your loyalty to any belief system, as long as it ends with you out ahead.
"Give that back! You cheated!" A young voice distracts you from your musings, and you look towards Ajaccio's cathedral, beneath which two young girls squabble over a ball.
"Get off me!" The second girl raises her hand, the air resounding with a hard smack as she hits her friend. "Hey, how dare you!" A sailor lounging at a nearby cafe, his features closely resembling those of the girl who was hit, bounds out of his chair.
"Hey, get away from my little cousin! Yer brat was askin' for it!" Another sailor, a pleasant companion to the first just a moment ago, bounds to his feet as well, getting in the way of the first.
"You calling my cousin a brat? You porco! I'll show you, coglione!" The sailors face each other down and you watch, a little incredulous, as one draws a knife from his boot. The other, backing away a few steps, pulls a pistol from his waistband and pulls the hammer to full cock. Then, everything goes to hell.
"Arretez! Drop your weapons!" A squad of a dozen musket-wielding national guardsmen rush into the square. You watch in horror as one reaches for the loaded pistol. There's a flash of sparks and a tuft of powder smoke as the weapon goes off, firing a lead ball into the stomach of one of the guardsmen. He falls to the ground, crying out in agony as his compatriots shift their weapons. More gunshots ring out in the square, as the shooter, regardless of whether or not he intended to fire his weapon, is hit in turn, falling to the ground, dead. There's a long moment of silence, hanging thick over the square. And then another shot rings out from a window, hitting the cathedral's wall next to the guardsmen. They return fire with a volley, and are met with musket shots from more and more surrounding windows. So far, only the sailor and the first of the guardsmen have fallen, but more are sure to follow. Do you:
[] Intervene peacefully? Since the National Guard is the closest thing Corsica has to a police force, it could be argued that it's your job to step in before this spins even further out of control. Step in while each side is reloading and convince them to stop this madness!
[] Intervene violently? Since the National Guard is the closest thing Corsica has to a police force, it could be argued that it's your job to step in before this spins even further out of control. Go take command of the leaderless guardsmen and stop this madness!
[] Walk away? Your mother's home is thankfully behind you, and getting in the middle of pissed off Corsicans is a good way to get a knife between your ribs. Discretion is the better part of valor.
[] Run for reinforcements? This is your job, clearly, but no need to go off half cocked. National Guard men are posted around town - you should be able to round up a few. On the other hand, given how fast things escalated, there might already be more blood shed by the time you return.
[] Run to the French garrison at Ajaccio's fort? If you're going to deal with this, you'd prefer to have trained French soldiers than the poorly trained militiamen of the guard.
[X] Plan: Pure Unadulterated Mercenary
-[X] Calculation - A battalion of muskets at your back tends to make people listen to you. You're here on Corsica to help increase the influence of your mother and the rest of your family, and your rank helps you do that. Gains Trait: Calculating (+10 to political intrigue rolls)
-[X] Genuinely don't care. Ideology only has meaning insofar as it can sway people to follow you. You sincerely believe that your beliefs should work for you - not the other way around. You'll proclaim your loyalty to any belief system, as long as it ends with you out ahead.
-[X] Intervene violently? Since the National Guard is the closest thing Corsica has to a police force, it could be argued that it's your job to step in before this spins even further out of control. Go take command of the leaderless guardsmen and stop this madness!
I dunno, all the traits here feel like they're good, but really niche uses that are kind of vague. Ambition seems OP in the way that literally everything we could do could be framed in the way that we are trying to advance ourselves in some way. Duty seems like it is really good and you want it, in that one circumstance. Tirelessness just seems like a decent all around option, but could be bad depending on how the first rolls go and what consequences that could bring jobbing them. Calculation most of all doesn't make sense as playing the game of politics is literally advancing yourself and under the purview of ambition
Basically ambition or tirelessness are the best options for a trait and intervention is basically a "which ideology did you want to pick". Violently for revolutionary, as these are at some level royalist, peacefully for seeing the virtues of both, leave for the not caring option and the others are a wildcard or extra pick for revolutionary
[X] Plan: The New Kingmaker
-[X]Tirelessness - As odd as it might sound, you took the job because you were bored. Ever since your childhood, you've burned with an inexhaustible energy that leaves your teachers and superiors both impressed and concerned in equal measure. Time spent without doing anything productive just seems wrong to you. Gain Trait: Tireless (Can perform one more action per turn than you normally would)
-[X] You're a revolutionary among revolutionaries. You believe deeply that the destruction of the Ancien Regime will lead to the creation of a new, brighter world, where all men are equal, and tyranny will be wiped away by the march of progress. You might be a moderate, wanting to keep France a constitutional monarchy, or more of a radical, seeking the abolition of the monarchy and the establishment of a Republic. Either way, Liberty, Equality and Fraternity are the guiding principles of your life.
-[X] Intervene peacefully? Since the National Guard is the closest thing Corsica has to a police force, it could be argued that it's your job to step in before this spins even further out of control. Step in while each side is reloading and convince them to stop this madness!
[X] Plan: Jacobinism-Bonapartism
-[X] Calculation - A battalion of muskets at your back tends to make people listen to you. You're here on Corsica to help increase the influence of your mother and the rest of your family, and your rank helps you do that. Gains Trait: Calculating (+10 to political intrigue rolls)
-[X] You're a revolutionary among revolutionaries. You believe deeply that the destruction of the Ancien Regime will lead to the creation of a new, brighter world, where all men are equal, and tyranny will be wiped away by the march of progress. You might be a moderate, wanting to keep France a constitutional monarchy, or more of a radical, seeking the abolition of the monarchy and the establishment of a Republic. Either way, Liberty, Equality and Fraternity are the guiding principles of your life.
-[X] Intervene peacefully? Since the National Guard is the closest thing Corsica has to a police force, it could be argued that it's your job to step in before this spins even further out of control. Step in while each side is reloading and convince them to stop this madness!
I dunno, all the traits here feel like they're good, but really niche uses that are kind of vague. Ambition seems OP in the way that literally everything we could do could be framed in the way that we are trying to advance ourselves in some way. Duty seems like it is really good and you want it, in that one circumstance. Tirelessness just seems like a decent all around option, but could be bad depending on how the first rolls go and what consequences that could bring jobbing them. Calculation most of all doesn't make sense as playing the game of politics is literally advancing yourself and under the purview of ambition
Fair criticisms all. Basically, the way I was figuring it:
Ambition - relates specifically to attempts to get yourself a promotion. So, you'd leverage your achievements (weighted based on how impressive they are), any leverage you have over your superiors, and then the +10 would be put on top of that roll. So basically promotion = base dice roll+10 (achievement)+10 (leverage)+10 (ambitious)
Calculating - is similar, but focuses more on other people rather than on yourself. Think things like digging up dirt on a rival, blackmailing someone, etc.
Potentially, I could combine the two traits, depending on what people think.
I was reading that "rank" more like status and place. like your rank in society and the army could be improved in some way by doing action X, so we will get the ambition bonus for it
I really think we NEED the 'Tireless' trait as soon as possible, and it makes sense both IC (Napoleon is trying to do a lot of things at the same time), OC (that sweet additional action is of most use the earlier we get it) and historically (This is an actual trait of Napoleon)
So I will only vote for a plan which includes this
