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Persona: HEAVEN (Persona/Sword Art Online/Isekai Multicross)

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Ferb_Ancos said:
Can you give advantage twice to the same character? Does it stack?
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I doubt it stacks based on Persona buff rules but the way I envisioned that was more that Gwen gets a buff (and then uses it up) on Turn 1 and then again on Turn 2 since she's the one I had going burst DPS. If it turns out that's an invalid command I'll change it.
 
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Alcor said:
I was going to bring up the disguise potion myself if it didn't come up, but yeah, provided an opportunity arises we should try to make use of it since this is the final battle. Since we never learned about Rinko our best option is out.
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Nephren-ka can tell us all of his weaknesses. Even the weaknesses of his mind we don't already know, if ETELLIA's implications are to be believed.
 
I think we should bring Rain into the fight with Sugou. Her Thousand Sword Rain forces him to defend with AGI instead of his VIT, and when she uses her action to focus it she gets +2 advantage.

By the way @

afreaknamedpete

, does Holy Sword work on ranged attacks?
 
Winged One said:
Nephren-ka can tell us all of his weaknesses. Even the weaknesses of his mind we don't already know, if ETELLIA's implications are to be believed.
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Yeah, that's a big part of why I'm using it. It almost certainly will tell us about Rinko but I also don't want to assume anything, besides, it may give us hints on how best to tailor our message.
 
A preliminary bit for a introductory speech against Oberon... opinions are welcome.

"And so the false king of fairies has deigned to show himself and take a stand against those who oppose him. Have you finally been able to muster up enough courage to delude yourself that you can fight us and win, believing yourself to be the hero and us the villains? Alas, it won't be enough to stop us. It is high time for you to be reminded that you are not the hero of this story and that you are very much still human, with all the vulnerabilities and fallacies that entails, King of Nothing."
 
At first, I thought that using Nephren-Ka might be a bad move since he's weak to bless and Sugou would know that if we used Three-Lobed Burning Eye. However, I realized how neat it would be narratively if we use it. Sugou has no allies that will cover his weaknesses while we can trust our friends and allies to cover ours.

[X] Plan: Death of the New Gods

Do any of you think that Rain and Dorz'l could hold off the ALO players? Rain spamming her Thousand Sword Rain with Dorz'l might be able to hold the chokepoint with Rain flying on a dragon and free to bombard the players. If they can we could have Thrym and his army take on the harem and free up the Sleeping Knights and Cayna to go for Sugou.
 
Striking Sugou's/Oberon's hate for being stuck in the shadow of Kayaba:

"A sword and a shield are your weapon of choice? And backed by heavy armor? You must truly be desperate if you have to emulate the fighting style of your most hated person in order to even have a chance to defeat us. And yet even this won't be enough to evade fate, for you are predestined to fail in your efforts."

And again, the attempt at an opening speech: "And so the false king of fairies has deigned to show himself and take a stand against those who oppose him. Have you finally been able to muster up enough courage to delude yourself that you can fight us and win, believing yourself to be the hero and us the villains? Alas, it won't be enough to stop us. It is high time for you to be reminded that you are not the hero of this story and that you are very much still human, with all the vulnerabilities and fallacies that entails, King of Nothing."

Again, opinions are welcome, since this is an important part of the vote, and properly worded verbal strikes against Oberon could help us out here significantly.
 
Ferb_Ancos said:
Did they release the Asuna recording before attacking? Or they are going to do that after?
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Plan is after, but there's no logical reason you can't, say call up Agil in game and asking him to release it now. Just vote for it as a plan. It's also there in video form as one of the few ways you can influence ALO players if they make it up.

Ferb_Ancos said:
OBERON will have more than one phase if my memory serves, they new weakness will remain between phases? Is something permanent or he will have to make a roll to shake it off?
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2nd phase? Ya'll wise to my tricks... Second Phase well be like a new fight so go crazy with your resources.

Ferb_Ancos said:
Can you give advantage twice to the same character? Does it stack?
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Advantage stacks provided it come from different sources. So no double Augmentation.

Kankuro said:
does Holy Sword work on ranged attacks?
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If it rolls VIT he can harm you, so yes.
 
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Alcor said:
I was going to bring up the disguise potion myself if it didn't come up, but yeah, provided an opportunity arises we should try to make use of it since this is the final battle. Since we never learned about Rinko our best option is out. To attack his ego I feel like our best option is Kayaba and to just shit talk him like a disappointed parent
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So maybe we can bluff by saying "I'm going to summon Kabaya", blind everyone with nephren-la (warning our team with a prepared code word that we totally planned in advance), then use a disguise potion to turn into Kabaya and bluffing our best to disparage him?
 
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I was thinking more "Cut the lights then have Kayaba/Rinko/whoever we disguise ourselves as start verbally tearing into him from the darkness so he can't do anything but impotently deny it and/or blindly waste his energy trying to aim at the source of the voice and when the lights return he'd 'see' they're really there" but there's any number of ways to play it. Although now with a word of a Phase 2... I don't know if the theatrics of that are worth incurring an additional point of STRESS to bring into the next phase.
 
[X] Write-in: Fake God vs Outer God
-- Just smile at Sugou. Smile in a way that just says that you hold all the cards. That you know something that he doesn't. That you know everything.
--Then say, "Hey, Sugou, do you want to know what a real god is like?"
--Summon Nephren-Ka, use the Three Lobed Burning Eye, and say, "A real god, knows all, sees all. A true god sees from above the cosmos, a true god's omniscience sees more than just one world."
-- Once you get the key information "And a true god accepts their weakness and grows from it. Like I did from what you just learned, What you couldn't do with Rinko,"

The idea here is to attack Sugou's ego by putting ourselves in a mental position of power over him. We make it look like we know everything to psyche him out then we use the summoning of Nephren-Ka as a scare tactic to unsettle him and thanks to that we will know everything.
 
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The Zog said:
The idea here is to attack Sugou's ego by putting ourselves in a mental position of power over him. We make it look like we know everything to psyche him out then we use the summoning of Nephren-Ka as a scare tactic to unsettle him and thanks to that we will know everything.
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I like this idea. But wouldn't Sugou also know about our weaknesses?
 
The Zog said:
The idea here is to attack Sugou's ego by putting ourselves in a mental position of power over him. We make it look like we know everything to psyche him out then we use the summoning of Nephren-Ka as a scare tactic to unsettle him and thanks to that we will know everything.
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Seems mostly fine, but it kinda lacks punch before Nephren-Ka is summoned. Maybe include some more taunts and verbal strikes at Oberon in the lead-up to the "Hey, Sugou, do you want to know what a real god is like?" line. In case you need inspiration for this, here are my attempts at making speeches against Oberon:
ThatGuyWithIdeas said:
Striking Sugou's/Oberon's hate for being stuck in the shadow of Kayaba:

"A sword and a shield are your weapon of choice? And backed by heavy armor? You must truly be desperate if you have to emulate the fighting style of your most hated person in order to even have a chance to defeat us. And yet even this won't be enough to evade fate, for you are predestined to fail in your efforts."

And again, the attempt at an opening speech: "And so the false king of fairies has deigned to show himself and take a stand against those who oppose him. Have you finally been able to muster up enough courage to delude yourself that you can fight us and win, believing yourself to be the hero and us the villains? Alas, it won't be enough to stop us. It is high time for you to be reminded that you are not the hero of this story and that you are very much still human, with all the vulnerabilities and fallacies that entails, King of Nothing."
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Well, I think that we should mock him for copying Kayaba regardless of what we learn from using Nephren-Ka. The parallels are so obvious that anyone could see he's a dollar store Kayaba, and there's no reason not to use that.

Maybe something like "your whole 'Baby's first SAO' scheme isn't impressing anyone, Sugou. Look at that «Holy Sword», you're seriously modeling yourself after a mass-murderer like Kayaba! Stop trying to pick up the scraps of SAO, and get real: you're nothing."
 
I don't know if keying into the fact that Kayaba is a mass murderer will really hit Sugou that hard, certainly not in his OBERON state where he basically doesn't value any life outside his own. I think the hitting on his being a copy is on the right track though - but specifically digging into how even now all he can do is copy Kayaba and his copies still don't measure up to the original.

Something along the lines of, "A god? Pfft, all I see here is a manchild trying to imitate a man he's failed to measure up to his whole life to catch up with him - but you can't, can you? At least before you were losing to a once-in-a-century genius. Now? You're losing to a corpse! Still the best you can hope for is for some of his table scraps to fall to you, no better than a maggot squirming about in a grave. This? This place? The World Tree, Alfheim? A pale shadow of Aincrad. ALO? Just a shitty, buggy version of SAO - god, I'd know, if nothing else Kayaba kept the fucking cities from falling into holes and didn't have - what, three Excaliburs at this point? And even your whole brainwashing harem bullshit - you needed Kayaba's SAO data, running on Kayaba's SEED Program to do anything. What else? Oh, that look and skill? Just a bootleg of Kayaba's SAO skillset, but then I guess that piss-poor LARPing as Kayaba is the only thing you know how to do. ...Oh! I never realized it before until I just laid it all out here like this but Asuna doesn't seem to fit the pattern, does she? Well, that can't be right! What? Kayaba steal your crush and Asuna is just the closest look-a-like you could find?"

Maybe omit the last bit about Asuna. I wrote that as a pre-Nephren-Ka scan type of dialogue but really I do think that if Hiyori started that takedown she actually could reasonably conclude that Asuna is seemingly breaking the pattern and that there has to be more there. Obviously when/if she learns of Rinko she could zero in on that. Also at some points where the dialogue is a bit stilted I'm imagining gesturing and stuff, like Hiyori waving an arm out to indicate the surroundings when bringing up Alfheim being a copy of Aincrad, or feigning surprise at her next revelation, etc. Or just that I'm bad at writing lol.
 
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[X] Plan: Setup
-[X]Persona
--[X]Nephren-Ka
--[X]Urvashi
--[X]Alice Liddell
--[X]Magnum Opus
--[X]Undine
-[X]War Resource Assignment
--[X]OBERON: Lux, Gwen, Yuuki, Shiroe, Rain
--[X]DELAY: Thyrm, Dorz'l
--[X]HAREM: Sleeping Knights, Cayna
-[X]Combat
--[X]Lux: Jewel of Union (Urvashi), Three-Lobed Burning Eye (Nephren-Ka)
--[X]Gwen: Activate Runic Interception, Bronze Toaster, Pulinpa
--[X]Yuuki: Activate Spell Blast, Advanced Melee, Sledgehammer
--[X]Shiroe: Augmentation (Gwen), Electrical Fuzz (OBERON), Augmentation (Yuuki)
--[X]Rain: Thousand Sword Rain, Focus Thousand Sword Rain

I added Rain to the Oberon team because sword rain can safely and reliably hit him. I also had Gwen switch her second action to a magic attack because I'm worried about Holy Sword killing her because of her terrible HP stat.

Magic attacks usually target AGI, right

afreaknamedpete

?
Edit: Nevermind I changed it to Pulinpa since I misunderstood the tutorial.
 
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I'm not particularly opposed to Death of the New Gods since the only thing I definitely wanted in a plan was the combo of the Orb and Three-Lobed Eye but I suppose I should explain my thinking beyond just making a joke about it in the plan on burning through Gwen's SP there since it was brought up. As with the other time we ran into some SP trouble, my plan would have been to use Shiroe's SP redistributor to bring it back up if that appeared necessary. I think my plan would have 16-18 SP across the party after the plan was executed depending on Runic Interception procs so once redistributed everyone would be at 4 SP (and Lux at 4-6.)

Also I left it unsaid but personally I feel like Gwen's skillset isn't great for this fight and were it not for the fact that narratively she deserves to be in this fight (even if not forced) I'd definitely have looked to swap her and Rain in terms of team assignments (again if she wasn't a required party member). Status Effects roll CHT IIRC and we're told OBERON's CHT is a specialization so that's why I passed on Pulinpa. Her MAG stat isn't good so I passed on Agi/Agilao for now pending the analysis results. Toss Junk is RNG and costs as much as Mjolnir which, provided we use Bronze Toaster should hit way harder in a fight we're told to favor big attacks instead of small ones. So basically once I eliminated all the moves I didn't feel were good in this situation I was basically left with just Bronze Toaster and Mjolnir. I figured this is the one combat plan we'll be making blind though so that combo leading to what should be a guaranteed weakness that will be hit hard with Rank S dice seemed the best move, not to mention it could be used in concert with Yuuki's own physical attacks to snowball a bit. It'd be on our following plans where we would have more complete information where we could try to better manage resources.

The framing of this fight seems to be "Go Fast" so burst DPS didn't seem a problem to me.
 
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afreaknamedpete said:
"LET PUNISHMENT BE DONE, THROUGH HEAVENS FALL!"

PUNISH THE HEAVENS!

PUNISH THE HEAVENS!

PUNISH THE HEAVENS!
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I really want to know if this caused the rest of the Fangs to cringe or if they got caught up in things and loved it.

afreaknamedpete said:
"Yes! It's as if destiny ordained it! A challenge, worthy of the full might of OBERON!"

A hundred beams of light shoot up from the ground, and from each and every one of them, the fairies of his harem rise up in battle gear. They're wearing armor and equipment from all nine races, each with a perfect facsimile of Asuna painted upon their faces.

"I was naive. NAIVE! This is not cause for alarm, no, this is a celebration! These villains, these despicable «Fangs of Fenris», are here to destroy the very world! But we have nothing to fear! Because we have the holy knight who will cast away the darkness! The shining beacon of hope for all the world!"
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Redefining everything that went wrong as success? The logic of a true loser.


[X] Plan: Death of the New Gods

Going with this one since with Putana's S Ranked STR even if we run out of SP we'll still be able to hammer away at Sugou with eleven dice.

[X] Write-in: Fake God vs Outer God
-- Smile at Sugou while you cast Jewel of Union. Smile in a way that just says that you hold all the cards. That you know something that he doesn't. That you know everything. Because you're about to.
-- As the casting of the Jewl begins say, "Sugou, do you know how much you've been contradicting yourself?"
-- "You see yourself as a god but everything here is just so, so small. A world of faeries and Norse mythology? A tiny insignificant speck stolen from the real world's history."
--Then say, "But I'll clear away the contradictions, Sugou, do you want to know what a real god is like?"
--Summon Nephren-Ka, make its summoning as dark, grand, and terrifying as you can as you use the Three Lobed Burning Eye, and say, "This is a real a real god. It knows all, sees all, it tells all. A true god's omniscience sees more than just one world for it is a avatar of the cosmos itself."
-- Once you get the key information, "And a true god accepts their weakness and grows from it. Like I did from the darkest secrets god just told you. What you couldn't do with Rinko."

Okay, I've expanded on my write-in from before. Does everyone think it's better? I threw in another Persona 2 reference!

Also, @afreaknamedpete is the plan in the write in the supposed to be the same thing or are they separate votes? I couldn't tell.
 
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I wonder if Raphael is reinforcing his delusion of being Oberon.

Can we project images at all? Slapping up all of the news articles and pictures of his real face would probably work well. Make it so everywhere he looks and everyone he tries targeting just makes him more and more mad.

Also, I feel like our Two as One choice for our shadow and the chosen fusions so far are making us lean too far into Philemon, which is bad. Because if Philemon subverts us, he wins.
 
I don't know, I still feel like being too grandiose and trying to "out-God" OBERON is the wrong play. As is playing into the notion of heroes and villains (beyond our role in Ragnarok in which case from a in-universe standpoint we explicitly chose to cast ourselves as villains and so opposing us is very arguably heroic from the SEED's standpoint.)

I think going straight for the throat with pointed insults, mockery, and insinuations actually works out better for our purposes. immediately get under his skin so he can't try to keep to the playbook of being a godly being. In essence, drag him down into the muck - force him to respond in ways and to things that are not at all in keeping with the image of OBERON as he sees it. It might seem crass but that's exactly the point, a god like OBERON should not be crass. Drag him away from that headspace and keep needling him with his failures as Sugou Nobuyuki such that he feels driven to respond. He reacted viscerally to being called Sugou - if we infuriate him enough that he feels the need to answer our taunts he is himself acknowledging himself to be Sugou because that's who we're taunting.
 
The Zog said:
Also, @afreaknamedpete is the plan in the write in the supposed to be the same thing or are they separate votes? I couldn't tell.
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There's the battle plan which must be a full plan.

The free Talk action is seperate.

Kankuro said:
Magic attacks usually target AGI, right
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Most attacks target the opponents best defensive stat, unless narrative it's armor piercing or something. Honestly for most of the bosses you've fought I usually just make one defensive stat.

ShadowAngelBeta said:
Can we project images at all? Slapping up all of the news articles and pictures of his real face would probably work well. Make it so everywhere he looks and everyone he tries targeting just makes him more and more mad.
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Uh, sure. It's reasonable that Shiroe or Cayna would have an ability like this. Even i Canon SAO taking pictures and remote viewing spells were a thing.
 
Alcor said:
I don't know, I still feel like being too grandiose and trying to "out-God" OBERON is the wrong play. As is playing into the notion of heroes and villains (beyond our role in Ragnarok in which case from a in-universe standpoint we explicitly chose to cast ourselves as villains and so opposing us is very arguably heroic from the SEED's standpoint.)

I think going straight for the throat with pointed insults, mockery, and insinuations actually works out better for our purposes. immediately get under his skin so he can't try to keep to the playbook of being a godly being. In essence, drag him down into the muck - force him to respond in ways and to things that are not at all in keeping with the image of OBERON as he sees it. It might seem crass but that's exactly the point, a god like OBERON should not be crass. Drag him away from that headspace and keep needling him with his failures as Sugou Nobuyuki such that he feels driven to respond. He reacted viscerally to being called Sugou - if we infuriate him enough that he feels the need to answer our taunts he is himself acknowledging himself to be Sugou because that's who we're taunting.
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Raphael won't let us get away with anything less than Grandiose, we were already warned about that.

We need to tear down Oberon both in the game and as Sugou.
 
[x] Write-in
-[x] Start laughing at him in an exaggerated manner. "Really, Sugou, this is your grand plan? A cheap knockoff of Kayaba's last stand? Can you do anything without copying his work?"
 
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