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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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Overemphasizing the Devils at the cost of the larger army runs the serious risk of ending up like Afghanistan's previous government if a conflict grows too large. A small cadre of relatively elite forces worked to exhaustion, shuttling around putting out every fire, while the weakness of the conventional forces prevents them from taking advantage of the opportunities provided. Note that while the Afghan commandos were dealing with a country wide military offensive, they also numbered in the tens of thousands and relied heavily on helicopters to redeploy, much larger and faster than the best forces of the Devils, if they number less than a thousand.

While it's a resources question at the end of the day and it might end up more efficient to hire foreign personnel for the task, the existing military definitely does need some more oomph. And many of the unique skills the Devils have are things that any instructors we hire will lack, mainly expertise in operating in post-Collapse America. I think it's important that whatever of those things are still applicable today be disseminated to the larger army.

What will happen to the tanks and other good pre-war equipment? Will they be basically mothballed due to a lack of forces trained to support them?

I think the choice of retaining the (elite core of the) Devil Brigade or not essentially decides the posture the Commonwealth wants to take. Retaining the Devil Brigade basically forces a more defensive, more passive stance for the near future as the wider military more slowly develops, with the Devils as the primary means of projecting hard power outside the Commonwealth, with all the implications thereof. More range, more concentrated power, less footprint, but little coverage and little ability to scale up to greater tasks. For all their skills the Devils aren't going to control significant territory or be in multiple places at once. Breaking up the Devils means that the wider military is ready for larger actions of greater variety much sooner, up to and including defending the Commonwealth, where the Devils will become increasingly marginal, but does require that we restrict ourselves to areas where we can actually handle their greater need for a proper supply chain.

There's also my personal narrative preference that working the Devils till they're all used up is just too sad. People who have done so much deserve a break, or at least a chance to use their skills for something more, eventually.
 
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Adastra said:
What will happen to the tanks and other good pre-war equipment? Will they be basically mothballed due to a lack of forces trained to support them?
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We're not really going to be in a position to turn down any usable military gear, much less Old World Equipment. If the Devils get split up into training cadres, we'll just keep using them at our discretion until we've run out of it. Not much else that can really be done with them.
 
It's been mentioned that the Devils equipment has 3/5 uses left and if used by anyone other than them it'll result in the use of two charges rather than one. So their gear will only be used 1 time compared to 3 if they're disbanded.

Adastra said:
I think the choice of retaining the (elite core of the) Devil Brigade or not essentially decides the posture the Commonwealth wants to take. Retaining the Devil Brigade basically forces a more defensive, more passive stance for the near future as the wider military more slowly develops, with the Devils as the primary means of projecting hard power outside the Commonwealth, with all the implications thereof. More range, more concentrated power, less footprint, but little coverage and little ability to scale up to greater tasks. For all their skills the Devils aren't going to control significant territory or be in multiple places at once. Breaking up the Devils means that the wider military is ready for larger actions of greater variety much sooner, up to and including defending the Commonwealth, where the Devils will become increasingly marginal.
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I figured the route that resulted in the Devils disbanding would be the more defensive one as a regular army can't mobilize in the way that a special forces unit can and requires more robust lines of logistics.

Meanwhile if they were kept then there would be a way to reach out and project power throughout the continent and while the regular army wouldn't be as trained as they could be otherwise they would still be around to provide security.

I don't know about Afghanistan's forces in detail, but your description of the issue gives me the sense that problem was less a focus on elites and more that their regulars were horribly incompetent to the point that they had nothing to rely upon but the elites.

I think people are overemphasizing the cost of the Devils in the opposite direction. We're talking about a force of 800 troops, maintaining and supporting a force of that scale is not a tremendous burden on the overall budget save in that it'll require the hiring of an equivalent amount of overseas trainers.
 
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I am open to criticism and suggestions.

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1
-[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
-[X] Defense (1 AP)
--[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC: 20 15. Successes Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). AP Limit: 2. Effect: Raise army base training level to 2/5 (Trained) from 1/5 (Green), level out air force air-to-air training level to 2/5 (Trained) to match its ground attack level. New forces deploy at this level.
---[X] 1 Defense AP
-[X] State (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
--[X] Expand the Department: DC: 30. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Gain 1 additional Department of State AP per turn.
---[X] 1 State AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Expatriate Outreach [SYP]: DC: 15. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Exploit your populace's restored ties to the American Diaspora and establish contacts who can put you in touch with people at the intersection of talent and patriotism. To an extent, will require either competing or cooperating with FCNY given how tightly the Diaspora roots in them. Likely will escalate to the attention of the Revivalist Council, but needs to be done.
---[X] 1 Free AP
--[X] Establish Council Representation: DC: 35. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Have a proper team of diplomatic and espionage specialists on hand at the Council who can enable you to act with some measure of capability in the continental diplomatic scene.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Domestic Affairs (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
--[X] Refugee Management: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Establish a government office responsible for managing and directing the flow of refugees in order to minimize friction with existing populations and ensure refugees' smooth resettlement. Allows you to engage competently with what promises to be an ongoing social issue for your administration.
---[X] 1 Domestic Affairs AP
--[X] State Integration Office: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Using your successful integrations of Toledo and Detroit as models, establish a small office of the Department responsible for overseeing the integration of new member states to the CFC and smoothing out potential problems.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Development (3 AP)
--[X] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass from climate deal. Successes Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). AP Limit: 3. Effect: Fully revamp and rationalize your power grid with renewable energy sources. 2 successes replaces and rationalizes the power grid. 3 sees you fudge the numbers and get an expansion to the power grid out of it. The option will remain for one turn past the 2nd success, if there is not a 3rd in the same turn.
---[X] 2 Development AP
--[X] United Post Office Contributions: DC: No roll. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 1. Effect: Commit direct funding to the United Post Office project in excess of your obligations to cooperate with Council requirements.
---[X] 1 Development AP
-[X] Security (1 AP + 2 Free AP)
--[X] Long Tail: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Improve your intelligences services' efficiency by vetting and hiring additional analysts and support staff to enable your field agents to better do their jobs.
---[X] 1 Security AP
--[X] Down the Mighty Miss [SYP]: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Deepen your network along the Mississippi River, gaining access to better information.
---[X] 1 Free AP
--[X] Victorian Intelligence: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Authorize additional support for Foreign Intelligence Office operations in Nova Scotia to establish new agents, before the Crusaders are pushed out and the Inquisitors can reestablish direct control.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Technological Recovery (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
--[X] Department of Education: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Found the Department of Education, which will be responsible for establishing and standardizing public schools within the Commonwealth.
---[X] 1 Technological Recovery AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Retraining Campaigns [SYP]: DC: 40. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Establish a body of workers who can be employed in your vital job industries. Best to time it properly so you have neither a glut of spare workers, nor businesses standing empty...but with few local experts to oversee the training efforts, that timing will be a challenge.
---[X] 2 Free AP
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Devils should be Officer Cadre imo - we're too pressed for an officer corps with an expansion slate.

AP available:
6 Free AP
3 SYP AP
DoDef AP
DoSta AP
DoDA AP
DoDev AP
DoSec AP
DoTR AP
... 15 AP bros...

Current national priorities
1. The Mississippi
2. The Mississippi
3. The Mississippi
4. Military modernization
5. The Mississippi
6. Enhancement of industrial state to support military force
7. Don't Explode

Pursuant to the extensive list of goals laid out above:

Mississippi Objectives:
Standing Core (DoDef) [1 Success required, DC 30, AP limit 2]
Expand the Department [2 Successes required, DC 30, AP limit 2]
To Saint Louis and Beyond [3 Successes required, DC 15, AP limit 4]
State Integration Office [1 Success required, DC 20, AP Limit 2]
Infrastructure Projects [2 Successes required, DC Autopass, AP Limit 2]
Down the Mighty Miss [1 Success required, DC 30, AP Limit 2]

Military Modernization
Military Training Reform [1 Success Required, DC 20-5, AP Limit 2]
Officer Academies [2 Successes Required, DC 25-5, AP Limit 2+1]

Butter
Expatriate Outreach [1 Success Required, DC 15, AP Limit 1]
Renovate Bureau of Taxation [2 Successes Required, DC 40, AP Limit 2]
Green Energy [2 Successes required, DC Autopass, AP Limit 2]
Industrial Assessments [2 Successes required, DC 10, AP Limit 3]
Retraining Campaigns [2 Successes required, DC 40, AP Limit 3]

Nice to have.... ah shit we're out of AP.

[] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[] Plan Marching Down The River
-[] Standing Core [DoDef AP, 1 SYP AP]
-[] Expand the Department [DoSta AP, 1 Free AP]
-[] To Saint Louis and Beyond [1 Free AP, 2 SYP AP]
-[] State Integration Office [DoDA AP]
-[] Infrastructure Projects [2 DoDev AP]
-[] Down the Mighty Miss [DoSec AP]
-[] Military Training Reform [1 Free AP]
-[] Officer Academies [1 Free AP]
-[] Expatriate Outreach [1 Free AP]
-[] Green Energy [DoDev AP, 1 Free AP]
-[] Retraining Campaigns [DoTR AP]
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Rationale here.

[X] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan Marching Down The River
-[X] Standing Core [DoDef AP, 1 SYP AP]
-[X] Expand the Department [DoSta AP, 1 Free AP]
-[X] To Saint Louis and Beyond [1 Free AP, 2 SYP AP]
-[X] State Integration Office [DoDA AP]
-[X] Infrastructure Projects [2 DoDev AP]
-[X] Down the Mighty Miss [DoSec AP]
-[X] Military Training Reform [1 Free AP]
-[X] Officer Academies [1 Free AP]
-[X] Expatriate Outreach [1 Free AP]
-[X] Green Energy [DoDev AP, 1 Free AP]
-[X] Retraining Campaigns [DoTR AP]
 
I demand infrastructure projects! Look people, if we want to start actually seriously building industries, infrastructure is needed!
 
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[X] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan building a fire department
-[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]:
-[X] Forging the Sword [SYP]:
-[X] Officer Academies [SYP]: x2
-[X] Expand the Department: x2
-[X] Establish Council Representation:
-[X] Refugee Management:
-[X] Renovate the Bureau of Taxation:
-[X] Coalition Talks:
-[X] Green Energy [SYP]: x2
-[X] Infrastructure Projects [SYP]: x2
-[X] United Post Office Contributions:
-[X] Long Tail:
-[X] Retraining Campaigns [SYP]:



[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
[X]Plan Better Tools To Make Tools
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
 
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[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan Marching Down The River

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
 
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[X] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan building a fire department
 
[x][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
 
[x][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1

[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2

[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
 
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Edit: Changing my vote.
[X]Plan Foundations
[X][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
 
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[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
-[X] Retain the Devil Brigade
-[X] Military Training Reform (1 Def)
-[X] Officer Academies (2 Free)
-[X] Expand the Department (1 State, 1 Free)
-[X] Source Foreign Arms (1 Free)
-[X] Refugee Management (1 DA)
-[X] Coalition Talks (1 Free)
-[X] Green Energy (2 Dev)
-[X] Industrial Assessments (1 Dev, 1 Free)
-[X] Down the Mighty Miss (1 Sec)
-[X] Victorian Intelligence (1 Free)
-[X] Department of Education (1 Tech, 1 Free)
-[X] Retraining Campaigns (1 Free)

Defense: Completing training reform and officer academies seems like a pretty straightforward decision. We need to train soldiers, and this is how we do it. Next turn probably take Forging the Sword?

State: Expanding the department is necessary to meet diplomatic commitments. Sourcing foreign arms is stated by the QM to be a critical option on which our ability to fight a war with Victoria will hinge, but is deliberately not slated to complete this turn for two reasons. First, its DC is hidden behind a subvote which investing the first AP in it will trigger, so if we take this one AP at a time, we'll have a better sense of what foreign arms sourcing will actually look like and how difficult it will be before going all the way. And second, the knowledge of what arms we actually need to source as opposed to being able to produce domestically is locked behind Industrial Assessments, so this plan aims to finish the latter before the former so we can complete our sourcing in a well-informed way.

Domestic Affairs: Both Refugee Management and Coalition Talks address problems which threaten to grow worse if ignored. It's a bit of an action sink, but we're best off getting that out of the way now. Hopefully next turn we'll have less fires to put out and can get to renovating our tax bureau.

Development: Green Energy is one of our two 2-AP free wins along with Infrastructure Projects, we can probably do them in either order.
I'm doing it first because we can definitely knock this out for 2 AP right now and Infrastructure Projects is slightly easier to fit into future plans because it doesn't have the awkward requirement to complete the final AP right after the penultimate one or else the CAF will think they're done and pack up and leave. Industrial Assessments is the crucial action, we need to source foreign arms and as previously mentioned this is what tells us what we need to source.

Security: Down the Mighty Miss should give us an easier time when it comes time to take To St. Louis and Beyond, which should be next turn, that's important to get on quickly. Victorian Intelligence exploits a once in a lifetime opportunity granted to us by the Victorian Civil War.

Technological Recovery: Department of Education is an entire extra department. It is completely priceless and will pay for itself in AP alone in just two turns. Retraining Campaigns is started here in hopes that completing it will lower the DC on other difficult actions like expanding the Bureau of Taxation.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them!
 
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[X][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1
 
buli-buli said:
I am open to criticism and suggestions.

[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1
-[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
-[X] Defense (1 AP)
--[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC: 20 15. Successes Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). AP Limit: 2. Effect: Raise army base training level to 2/5 (Trained) from 1/5 (Green), level out air force air-to-air training level to 2/5 (Trained) to match its ground attack level. New forces deploy at this level.
---[X] 1 Defense AP
-[X] State (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
--[X] Expand the Department: DC: 30. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Gain 1 additional Department of State AP per turn.
---[X] 1 State AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Expatriate Outreach [SYP]: DC: 15. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Exploit your populace's restored ties to the American Diaspora and establish contacts who can put you in touch with people at the intersection of talent and patriotism. To an extent, will require either competing or cooperating with FCNY given how tightly the Diaspora roots in them. Likely will escalate to the attention of the Revivalist Council, but needs to be done.
---[X] 1 Free AP
--[X] Establish Council Representation: DC: 35. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Have a proper team of diplomatic and espionage specialists on hand at the Council who can enable you to act with some measure of capability in the continental diplomatic scene.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Domestic Affairs (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
--[X] Refugee Management: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Establish a government office responsible for managing and directing the flow of refugees in order to minimize friction with existing populations and ensure refugees' smooth resettlement. Allows you to engage competently with what promises to be an ongoing social issue for your administration.
---[X] 1 Domestic Affairs AP
--[X] State Integration Office: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Using your successful integrations of Toledo and Detroit as models, establish a small office of the Department responsible for overseeing the integration of new member states to the CFC and smoothing out potential problems.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Development (3 AP)
--[X] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass from climate deal. Successes Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). AP Limit: 3. Effect: Fully revamp and rationalize your power grid with renewable energy sources. 2 successes replaces and rationalizes the power grid. 3 sees you fudge the numbers and get an expansion to the power grid out of it. The option will remain for one turn past the 2nd success, if there is not a 3rd in the same turn.
---[X] 2 Development AP
--[X] United Post Office Contributions: DC: No roll. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 1. Effect: Commit direct funding to the United Post Office project in excess of your obligations to cooperate with Council requirements.
---[X] 1 Development AP
-[X] Security (1 AP + 2 Free AP)
--[X] Long Tail: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Improve your intelligences services' efficiency by vetting and hiring additional analysts and support staff to enable your field agents to better do their jobs.
---[X] 1 Security AP
--[X] Down the Mighty Miss [SYP]: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Deepen your network along the Mississippi River, gaining access to better information.
---[X] 1 Free AP
--[X] Victorian Intelligence: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Authorize additional support for Foreign Intelligence Office operations in Nova Scotia to establish new agents, before the Crusaders are pushed out and the Inquisitors can reestablish direct control.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Technological Recovery (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
--[X] Department of Education: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Found the Department of Education, which will be responsible for establishing and standardizing public schools within the Commonwealth.
---[X] 1 Technological Recovery AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Retraining Campaigns [SYP]: DC: 40. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Establish a body of workers who can be employed in your vital job industries. Best to time it properly so you have neither a glut of spare workers, nor businesses standing empty...but with few local experts to oversee the training efforts, that timing will be a challenge.
---[X] 2 Free AP
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I don't think I like this plan at all, to be honest, and I'm not just saying that because I've got a pet plan of my own.

Defense is fine. Less investment than my own plan but prioritizing other things is valid.

State's Expatriate Outreach and Council Representation options seem... decadent. We need foreign arms and we need a trade presence in the Mississippi. Both of those are explicitly stated by the GM to be matters of life and death. Choosing to invest large amounts of AP in State and then take neither of them is not a luxury we can afford.

Domestic Affairs's State Integration Office is premature. We are not likely to find ourselves integrating a state in the immediate future. It's something we need to do eventually, but now is not the turn to take it, we have other priorities.

Development's United Post Office Contributions is also decadent. Industrial Assessments is a de facto prerequisite for Source Foreign Arms, one of said explicitly critical State options. If we had a spare AP I'd be happy to chuck it at the post office, but we don't, this plan has already skipped over urgent priorities and by this point has essentially negative AP to spare.

Security and Technological Recovery are fine, I guess. Long Tail wasn't my personal choice but I don't hate it.

Overall, I think this plan prioritizes wants over needs and will leave us with a massive disadvantage in both the preparation of our military in accordance with the Seven-Year Plan and the ability to grow our economy through trade up and down the Mississippi.
 
[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training

If we were not looking to force the Vicks down into the mud for good soonest I would back the other plan. As is we can't start taking nation building actions fully until the Vick threat is fully neutralized and Russia lacks a patsy on our doorstep.
 
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