Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
something people often forget Caesar started as a priest in his life.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
[X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
-[X] The Patrician
-[X] War
-[X] Speech
-[x] The Gift of Minerva
This seems like a well-rounded plan. The Patrician background will give us status to move among the upper class without being rejected outright, and the war/speech skills will help us gain the respect of the military and plebeians. The speech skill will apply on the battlefield and in the Senate. The Gift of Minerva will help us plan on and off the battlefield as well.
I would also like the Law skill, but we can only pick two skills. However, just because it's not one of our skills doesn't mean we're completely ignorant of it. We can also learn more about the law in the course of the quest.
-[X] The Patrician
-[X] War
-[X] Speech
-[x] The Gift of Minerva
This seems like a well-rounded plan. The Patrician background will give us status to move among the upper class without being rejected outright, and the war/speech skills will help us gain the respect of the military and plebeians. The speech skill will apply on the battlefield and in the Senate. The Gift of Minerva will help us plan on and off the battlefield as well.
I would also like the Law skill, but we can only pick two skills. However, just because it's not one of our skills doesn't mean we're completely ignorant of it. We can also learn more about the law in the course of the quest.
I'd be a lot happier with Plan Legate if people could tell me where, exactly, they expect to get a platform to use the Speech skill. We're not going to be commanding armies or speaking in the Senate until we're at least of Praetorian rank, and we can't convene an assembly in the streets without a magistracy either.
Like, Speech without Law means we're not getting anything like as much out of the skill as we should for years in game.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that Law is the absolute must have here. It's the best way to build up a web of contacts and clients (because Dad won't have left us any) and it helps our finances and visibility.
Like, Speech without Law means we're not getting anything like as much out of the skill as we should for years in game.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that Law is the absolute must have here. It's the best way to build up a web of contacts and clients (because Dad won't have left us any) and it helps our finances and visibility.
[X] You are a patrican, the true nobility of Rome, the upper class of the Republic. Yours is an ancient family, hailing back to the very founding of Rome itself. Once, the Cingulii had numerous branches across the Republic, and were respected and held in high regard by the people and the Senate of Rome alike. But one by one, your line died out and your name fell into disrepute, becoming associated with flesh merchants and slavers. A member of your family has not held the Consulate, or even sat in the Senate, for well over a century. Your father, through his actions, has started well on the path to restoring the long-lost honor of your name, but with him dead, the legacy of your family rests upon your shoulders.
[X] War: Almost from infancy, your father struggled to impart upon you all that he knew of the soldier's duty, of the sword held high, of the line that cannot break. He drove you like he drove the legionnares of his youth, molding you into a weapon of Rome. Physically, you are the equal of any man now serving in Rome's armies, and you have long studied the campaigns of the Republic's finest commanders and their foes, honing an understanding of strategy and tactics equal to the most promising cadet. Should you decide to take up arms in the name of Rome, you will have a most promising future under the sword.
[X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
[X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it.
[X] War: Almost from infancy, your father struggled to impart upon you all that he knew of the soldier's duty, of the sword held high, of the line that cannot break. He drove you like he drove the legionnares of his youth, molding you into a weapon of Rome. Physically, you are the equal of any man now serving in Rome's armies, and you have long studied the campaigns of the Republic's finest commanders and their foes, honing an understanding of strategy and tactics equal to the most promising cadet. Should you decide to take up arms in the name of Rome, you will have a most promising future under the sword.
[X] Law: Roman law is a complicated, tangled morass of bylaws and codas, less a legal system and more an inscrutable maze, the byproduct of three hundred years of plodding bureaucracy. From a young age, you have studied and read the law, making yourself familiar with it's complicated intricacies and glaring loopholes, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. In the Senate, one who understands the byzantine codes of decorum and senatorial process can manipulate them to his cause, and in the streets of the city, one who can speak in favor of the people in the courts can easily win their hearts.
[X] The Gift of Minerva: You are a man wise beyond your years, more intelligent and resourceful than most youths your age. Even in the height of danger, you are clear-sighted and quick-thinking, opening up more solutions to your problems than might be possible otherwise. Your plans and stratagems are well-thought out and do not often fail, and no man in Rome can best you in a match of wits. Such is the extent of your skill that at times it seems as if you are blessed by Minerva herself, the warlike goddess of knowledge. Where others rush headlong into danger, you have already seen it coming -- and worked out a plan to stop it.
IC : Law cannot be an after-thought in our education, not one a proper Roman boy would sideline for the weaker Greek pursuits.
We'll take the correct path, and while we might not be an Agrippa or Caesar in the making, perhaps a more martial Augustus.
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DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
thats because he was a novus homo, as clodius was quite fond of pointing out. With a Patrician background? we could SO do it
Not, I would argue, with the likes of Pompey and Caesar running around conquering near and far. Even leaving aside the prestige and glamour of a victorious general, if it comes to it (and it probably will) we'll only be able to match their steel and gold with legions and conquests of our own.
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
its going to be awhile before caesar, and he may very well stay a priest.
- Location
- California
We'd probably have to create some serious ripples to change Caesars life that dramatically. I wouldn't count on it for our plans.
Possibly (though for Doylist reasons I think that unlikely.) But my main argument comes in two parts:
1- The Romans revere successful generals, to the point where a triumphing general is dressed as Jupiter. Nothing comes close to a good military record for impressing the voters and carrying one beyond the reach of mere average consulars.
2- Marius and Sulla have opened a door that will not close. There will almost certainly be another civil war. The stakes are too high at this point. If and when it comes, I would very much like to have legions of our own and the skill to lead them.
- Location
- California
Which actually brings up a point. What will be our plan for the endgame as it were? Are we going to want to go down the 'canon' route, except with us at the head instead of Caeser (and preferably with less daggers)? Or are we going to try and save the Republic?
- Location
- Toronto
What republic? You meant the client state that is Rome where literally nothing gets done without patronage and governors run amok in the provinces. No, we need a proper dictatorship so we can re-write the constitution.
II: Aquila
- Location
- Texas
[X] Plan Far-Seeing Legate
-[X] The Patrician
-[x] War
-[X] Speech
-[x] The Gift of Minerva
-[X] The Patrician
-[x] War
-[X] Speech
-[x] The Gift of Minerva
668 Years After The Founding of Rome
The Year of Cinna and Marius
As you watch, the augur holds up the raven's corpse high over the brazier, allowing the blood softly spurting from it's neck to drip down into the open flames, where it meets the fire with an acrid sizzle. The heady smell of burning blood rises into the morning air, mixing with the heavy scent of smoke rising from the braziers.
You stand on a low hillside half a mile from your family estate, accompanied only by your sister and a few of your retainers. It is a humid morning, and the damp, hot air seems to cling to your very bones, pasting the inner robes of your toga to your skin with sweat. Most of your slaves came back with your father from Hispania and handle the humidity with ease, but all the Romans on the hill are covered in a thin film of perspiration — with the notable exception of the augur. An old, hairless man with a wrinkled face and dripping eyelids, he stands almost entranced over the tall iron brazier, his face lit by the dancing flames, intensely watching each drop of blood spatter into the fire. Long after the bird must have bled dry, he keeps his eyes fixed on the flame, reading the flickering lights for some inscrutable sign.
Finally, after some minutes, he sets the bird aside and reaches for a bowl of mixed herbs and spices. You recognize some, like juniper and holly, but mixed in with them are strange plants you have never seen. As you look on, the augur chants something you cannot quite make out under his breath, then slowly upends the bowl into the fire. Instantly, the flames shoot higher, roaring up with a flare of sparks and filling the air with a sickly sweet smell, like that of rotting roses. After a moment, the flames settle, but the new smell joins the blood and the smoke mixing in the air. You do not know if it is the disorienting smell or the heat playing tricks with your mind, but you would swear the sky grows darker as well.
The old augur raises his hands over the flame, then casts his eyes to the heavens, speaking aloud in a voice cracked with age.
"Jupiter Rex, I beseech thee, grant me a sign. This man, a fatherless son, seeks the the favor of the gods before sets out for Rome. He wishes to know what his future holds. O Jove, lord of the skies, grant him your favor, I implore thee."
His words said, the augur leans in, closes his eyes and takes a deep whiff of the smoke. For a long moment he is still, then his face contorts strangely. His eyes flicker open, but where before they were cloudy and tinged with white, through the smoke of the brazier they seem clear and bright, shining —no, burning— with otherworldly furor. They gaze beyond you, beyond the hill, to someplace not of earth.
His eyes flicker and move across the landscape as you watch, studiously observing every hill, every cloud, every blade of grass and every speck dust for a sign from the gods. This, you know, is the job of the augurs. They watch wind blow and grass grow for hours, and then, from a thousand inscrutable signs, they proclaim the word of the gods.
Suddenly, the old man's gaze flickers to your right, and you hear a sharp intake of breath as his eyes grow wide. You turn your head in the direction where he now looks, and what you see gives you pause. There, amidst the dead branches of a tree hunched at the hill's edge, framed with the light of the rising sun, sits perched a great eagle. His feathers shine lustrously even in the pale grey of the morning, and his sinewy muscles are visible under his coat as he preens himself. His coat and talons are slick with blood, and his golden coat is flecked with the gore of his last meal. He is a sight to behold, as fierce and mighty as Jove himself, a winged lord of the heavens. In that still moment, you look upon death itself given wings, and you understand why the aquila is the symbol of Rome.
The king of the skies turns a golden eye towards the Romans below him, regarding your group with a gaze as proud as any king who ever ruled over men. He sniffs at the air for a long moment, as if scenting for more worthy prey, and then, with a final look of disdain, he takes to golden wing. In mere moments, he is a vanishing speck in the grey sky.
"You are blessed beyond measure, boy. Jupiter Rex has sent you a sign, the greatest sign of all, one of his own emissaries."
The augur's voice seems to shake you as if from a dream, and you turn around to face the old man. He hobbles slowly towards you, and whatever sorcery made his eyes young again is gone. His near-blind orbs are fixed upon you, and spittle flies from his lips as he speaks, his creaking voice raised into a pitch.
"Know this, then: The gods have blessed thy journey, and more. Death and glory both lie before you in equal measure, one hand-in-hand with the other, as inescapable as the dawn itself. You will go to Rome, child of the Cinguilii. You will walk the streets of your father's fathers and they will burn before you. Rome knows your faces, for they are her own. Wolves shall take flight by your hand, and eagles find their wings under your gaze, but trust in no man, save the man whom no man trusts. You will walk side-by-side with the sun, but never eclipse him, or he will blind you until the three are one. Last and greatest of all, fear and love wait before you, two sides of the same coin, twinned like life and death."
He pauses a long moment, and reaches out a weathered hand in the direction where the eagle flew, as if to shout a too-late warning.
"Take care in thy choice, for one shall win you endless fame, while the other must bring only an end to your name."
Epic Augury Recieved: The Sign of the Aquila: Before you came to Rome, it was foretold you would meet death and glory in equal measure, along with other portents that seemed at the time inscrutable, but may well prove deathly important in the days and months to come.
In Rome, the will of the gods was everything, and the augurs read the will of the gods. By discerning and reading signs and portents in the earth and upon the heavens, the augurs of Rome could interpret the words of the gods themselves, and speak of the future. No war would be declared, no army march to battle, no vote undertaken, unless the augurs were first consulted. The augurs could not err, not ever -- but men might err in how they interpreted the prophecies themselves.
In your time in Rome, you will have to consult the augurs yourself on many occasions. You can receive Lesser, Higher, and Greater Auguries, which give positive or negative modifiers for almost any action you are about to undertake. An Epic Augury, like the one you have just received, can have effects on the very fate of Rome itself, and can aid you in shaping it. Aside from their mechanical effects, auguries can provide important clues and hints to future game events, or the outline of a particular storyline or plot.
In a word -- beware the Ides of March.
In your time in Rome, you will have to consult the augurs yourself on many occasions. You can receive Lesser, Higher, and Greater Auguries, which give positive or negative modifiers for almost any action you are about to undertake. An Epic Augury, like the one you have just received, can have effects on the very fate of Rome itself, and can aid you in shaping it. Aside from their mechanical effects, auguries can provide important clues and hints to future game events, or the outline of a particular storyline or plot.
In a word -- beware the Ides of March.
"You simply cannot! I refuse!"
The clay jar shatters into pieces beside your head, and you have to narrowly duck to avoid the next.
Your sister, Cingulla, scowls as she grasps for another winejar to hurl at your person. Proserpina, your cook, stands in the corner of the room, trying to make herself invisible even as the kitchen she has spent most of the morning cleaning is forcefully repainted with wine.
It is a week after the augury on the hill, and two days before the scheduled marriage between your sister and a neighbor of yours, one Sergius Curtilius. Curtilius, for his part, is an altogether disagreeable and rash young man. In fact, you have quarreled with before on several occasions, when his hunts strayed into your family's land irregardless of boundary. Were it up to you, you would have nothing to do with the man. However, his father, Curtilius the Elder, is a man of some small name in the Senate, and one of the final acts of your father's life was the careful negotiation of a marriage between his son and your sister, through which your family would gain a friend with power in Rome. After your father's death, however, it was your sister's hope that you might renegotiate (or outright cancel) the marriage. That you have not is the reason that you have to duck to avoid yet another winejar.
"Sister! Get ahold of yourself!" Your words are ill-chosen, and merely prompt a furious search for another projectile.
"Ahold of myself? Ahold of myself? I am not a whore for you to marry off to that pig-faced oyster sucker Curtilius!" Your sister's face is literally red with sheer rage, her hair a black halo in the air as she curses and spits at you.
You try again. "He is wealthy enough, and--"
"I don't care if he's the richest man in Rome, he's still a rotten fool!"
Seeing that this will get you nowhere, you beat a quick retreat to an adjoining room, chased by flying clayware. You know full well that when your sister gets into one of her rages, there are few men that can calm her.
Of course, were it up to you alone, you would certainly cancel the marriage. But Curtilius' father is of some influence in Rome, and does not like being snubbed. What's more, tradition holds that cancelling a marriage so close to it's date is simply not done. Of course, the Curtiliuses might be swayed with words or coin, but even then, you would be left without allies of note in Rome when you set off for the city tomorrow. It is a choice you will have to mull on -- or, of course, you could simply force your sister into the marriage, though she would doubtless resent both you and her new husband.
Tercerus, your oldest mentor, regards you closely, his weathered brown face peering into your own. Once a slave, your father freed the old man when he saved his life in Spain, and he has served the Cingulii faithfully forever since. He has been like a second father to you since your youth, and it was Tercerus who taught you how to hunt and swim, and later, how to fight. You love him more than any man now living.
"You are a fool and an idiot, Quintus."
His voice is soft and harsh, and his words bring a hushed quiet from the gathered slaves and servants around the two of you. You stand in the courtyard of your estate on the morning of your long-awaited journey to Rome. The horses are loaded and packed, and your carts have been filled with all you will need. The only obstacle now stands before you, as ageless and brown as the day he came back with your father from far-off Hispania.
"Rome has ruined greater men than thee. What is to stop it from doing so again? I tell you again, Roman prophesy or no Roman prophesy, stay far from that cursed place."
You hold back a heavy sigh. This is the third time in as many days the old man has given you a speech warning you against your planned trip to Rome to begin your hopeful political career. It was foreboding at first, but now you simply find it rote. If he was any other servant, he might be whipped for such words, but Tercerus is like family to you -- more, even -- and so you simply bite your tongue and let him speak.
"Persist in this foolishness if you want, but I will not be returning. I swore long ago on your gods and mine that I would never return to that blasted city, and not even Lucius' son can compel me to break such an oath."
This catches your attention. Tercerus is the head of your household, the overseer of your domicile and the chief of your servants. He organizes events, sees to it that your messages are sent, and ensures that your will is done within the walls of your home. It is to him you turn if you need something --anything-- done, and done well. His loss would be a devastating blow before you have even begun.
You open your mouth to speak, but the old servant has turned his back and is already striding away. His last words echo over his back, foreboding and chilling all at once.
"Rome will be the end of you, Quintus. The end of us all."
The Servant
With Tercerus refusing to go, you will need a new head of household, against all your wishes. You have your pick from the servants in your home, but none of them are as able and capable as him you now leave behind -- or are they? Out of necessity, and for the stable maintenance of your estate while you are away, you must leave the ones you do not select behind.
[] Proserpina: Your cook, Proserpina. A small Roman woman who served as your youngest sister's wet nurse before becoming the family cook, she is unassuming and quiet. However, this initial timidity hides a dagger-sharp wit and one of the craftiest minds you have ever met. Whenever a sweet or snack was stolen from her kitchen, she could track down the offending party without fail, and near everything that occurs on the estate reaches her ears in some way or the other. It is only recently you have learned that when your father was in Spain, she acted as his go-between for all activities he needed performed sub rosa, or in great secret.
[] Glaber: Nicknamed Glaber, or 'the bald', for his lack of hair, this tall, dark-skinned Carthaginian was a mercenary from Africa who fought for Rome in Spain. He performed so well as your father's bodyguard that he brought him back with him to Rome, where he saved his life on more than one occasion. His ebony skin and bald pate draw many eyes, and, it seems, blades. His lanky body is riddled with faded scars, a testament to his ability as a fighter, and as a bodyguard. He has no great skill in subtlety, but, one might argue, he has no need of it, for you have never met a man who could best Glaber in a fight and walk away on both legs.
[] Mancina: Mancina is a Roman citizen, not a slave or a servant, but he has long served as the steward of your father's estate. With a whiplike tongue and unnervingly steely gaze, the slender, pale man sees to it that the slaves are asleep in their beds at the correct time, that the gates are shut and opened at the appointed moments, that the meals are served exactly on time, every time -- that your estate runs like the sun, precise and unerring. He is a man of schedule and order, rigid in his ways and frighteningly harsh in correcting all deviations from said schedule.
[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself.
[] Tercerus: Force Tercerus to go. He must, and he knows it. The old man may go on about oaths all he likes, but he is the ablest diplomat, warrior, and leader on your staff. He rose to the rank of centurion under your father, and saw blood and dust on the fields of Spain. You need him by your side in the far deadlier streets of Rome, no matter what he says. He may resent you deeply for it, but he would not betray you, now or ever, -- he loved your father too much for that, and loves you even more still, as a son.
[] Glaber: Nicknamed Glaber, or 'the bald', for his lack of hair, this tall, dark-skinned Carthaginian was a mercenary from Africa who fought for Rome in Spain. He performed so well as your father's bodyguard that he brought him back with him to Rome, where he saved his life on more than one occasion. His ebony skin and bald pate draw many eyes, and, it seems, blades. His lanky body is riddled with faded scars, a testament to his ability as a fighter, and as a bodyguard. He has no great skill in subtlety, but, one might argue, he has no need of it, for you have never met a man who could best Glaber in a fight and walk away on both legs.
[] Mancina: Mancina is a Roman citizen, not a slave or a servant, but he has long served as the steward of your father's estate. With a whiplike tongue and unnervingly steely gaze, the slender, pale man sees to it that the slaves are asleep in their beds at the correct time, that the gates are shut and opened at the appointed moments, that the meals are served exactly on time, every time -- that your estate runs like the sun, precise and unerring. He is a man of schedule and order, rigid in his ways and frighteningly harsh in correcting all deviations from said schedule.
[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself.
[] Tercerus: Force Tercerus to go. He must, and he knows it. The old man may go on about oaths all he likes, but he is the ablest diplomat, warrior, and leader on your staff. He rose to the rank of centurion under your father, and saw blood and dust on the fields of Spain. You need him by your side in the far deadlier streets of Rome, no matter what he says. He may resent you deeply for it, but he would not betray you, now or ever, -- he loved your father too much for that, and loves you even more still, as a son.
The Curtiline Marriage
Your sister adamantly refuses her marriage to Sergius Curtilinus, but tradition demands it. To turn it aside now would not only cost much in wealth and respect, but risk incurring the wrath of Curtilinus the Elder, a Senator with friends throughout the Republic. However, you feel your sister's grievance, and can you truly send your eldest sibling into the arms of a man you know to be abhorrent?
[] Marriage: It will go through, your sister's objections aside. She cannot stand in the way of something that might improve the fortunes of your entire house, and save an ancient family from ignominy.
[] Negotiation: Your father may have set up this marriage, but you are the head of your family now. You will sit down with Curtilinus the Elder and negotiate an end to this. Your sister does not want to get married, and you will not force her, but perhaps something can still be gained from this.
[] Trickery: You cannot cancel the marriage, but you cannot afford to make a new enemy in Rome. You hatch a plot: you will implicate the younger Curtilinus in a vicious crime on your land, great enough to cause some minor scandal at the very least, and enough perhaps to even bring charges against him. Something of this level will be more than enough to have the marriage canceled, and will drag down Curtilinus the Elder's name in Rome while leaving your own untouched. If caught, however, it will be positively disastrous to your reputation.
[] Annulment: To the hells with this. You are the head of your family and your estate. Curtilinus is a fool and a braggard, and he shall never be counted as your brother. You cancel the marriage without fanfare or ceremony, and set about finding new matches for your sister in Rome.
[] Write-In: You will deal with this matter in your own time.
[] Negotiation: Your father may have set up this marriage, but you are the head of your family now. You will sit down with Curtilinus the Elder and negotiate an end to this. Your sister does not want to get married, and you will not force her, but perhaps something can still be gained from this.
[] Trickery: You cannot cancel the marriage, but you cannot afford to make a new enemy in Rome. You hatch a plot: you will implicate the younger Curtilinus in a vicious crime on your land, great enough to cause some minor scandal at the very least, and enough perhaps to even bring charges against him. Something of this level will be more than enough to have the marriage canceled, and will drag down Curtilinus the Elder's name in Rome while leaving your own untouched. If caught, however, it will be positively disastrous to your reputation.
[] Annulment: To the hells with this. You are the head of your family and your estate. Curtilinus is a fool and a braggard, and he shall never be counted as your brother. You cancel the marriage without fanfare or ceremony, and set about finding new matches for your sister in Rome.
[] Write-In: You will deal with this matter in your own time.
Patron
In Rome, every great man needs a patron, someone to support him and give him aid. The patronage of one beloved by the people might catapult a Roman to glory, but should the opinions of the mob or the Senate turn against your patron, you might fall with him. Many an aspiring politician has found himself doomed when targeted by his patron's enemies. Of course, choose a patron who is too weak, or 'safe', and his weakness might become permanently associated with your name. Lastly, of course, every man in Rome has chosen a side in this brutal civil war, and by taking on a patron, you take on his allegiances -- allegiances that may prove deadly in the years to come. You have written to a great man of Rome, who once knew your father in his days as a Legate, seeking his patronage.
[] Scaevola: Quintus Mucius Scaevola, known better as Scaevola Pontifex, is the Pontifex Maximus, the chief priest of Rome and arguably one of the most powerful men in the Republic. Soldier, senator, plebian or patrician, all men must bow their heads before the spokesman of the gods on earth. A supporter and friend of the rebel general Sulla, he is widely disliked by the Marians, the followers of Sulla's archrival Marius, who even now controls Rome. However, the power and dignity of the Pontifex Maximus is far too great for the Marians to act against him. Taking on Scaevola's patronage would be tantamount to allying yourself with Sulla -- who even now returns to Rome with an army at his back. Depending on who wins the civil war, this could be a wise choice -- or a foolish one.
[] Gratidianus: The praetor Gratidianus is one of the most powerful and beloved of the populares, those Senators in Rome who ally themselves with the plebians and the common folk. His currency reforms as a praetor have made him so wildly beloved by the people of Rome that he is worshiped on street corners, and a veritable cult has sprung up around his person. This living cult of personality has enhanced and magnified his reputation in the Republic, making him one of the most popular men in Rome. His meteoric rise through the Marian ranks, as well as the overwhelming support of the plebs, means that a consular seat is not far off in his future. If, indeed, you made a friend of a future consul, your own rise would be all but assured.
[] Cinna: The powerful consul Lucius Cornelius Cinna. An advantageous powermonger, described by your father as a roach with no allegiance, he has tied his fate to that of Marius, to great result, becoming elected Consul this very year alongside Marius. He is thus second-in-command of the Marian faction of the civil war, which even now controls Rome. Though he and your father served together for a time, your father was left with a poor impression of the man, and in his dying days, upon learning of his rise to the consulate, said that such times bid ill tidings for Rome herself. Regardless of his personal qualities, Cinna is one of the most powerful men in the Republic at the moment, and has responded positively to your initial overtures for patronage.
[] Sertorius: The general Sertorius is perhaps one of Rome's greatest generals. Your father served under him for a time in Hispania, and spoke of him often as one of the most brilliant, dedicated, and gifted men that the Republic had ever produced, a fast friend and a loyal ally. A New Man, he was a public speaker and lawyer before becoming a soldier. While serving in Hispania, he won the Grass Crown, the Republic's most celebrated military order, earning him automatic entry into the Senate, and catapulting him into mythic status in the eyes of the Roman people. A noted populares, Sertorius is nevertheless only a tentative ally of Marius and the Marians, but should Sulla ever win the war, his head would be the first on the chopping block.
[] No One: You need no sponsor to prove yourself to the Roman people. You have a good tongue and good wits, and you can win elections without the support of any man. Of course, you will have to find a place to stay. And procure your own food. And run your own campaign. And...
[] Gratidianus: The praetor Gratidianus is one of the most powerful and beloved of the populares, those Senators in Rome who ally themselves with the plebians and the common folk. His currency reforms as a praetor have made him so wildly beloved by the people of Rome that he is worshiped on street corners, and a veritable cult has sprung up around his person. This living cult of personality has enhanced and magnified his reputation in the Republic, making him one of the most popular men in Rome. His meteoric rise through the Marian ranks, as well as the overwhelming support of the plebs, means that a consular seat is not far off in his future. If, indeed, you made a friend of a future consul, your own rise would be all but assured.
[] Cinna: The powerful consul Lucius Cornelius Cinna. An advantageous powermonger, described by your father as a roach with no allegiance, he has tied his fate to that of Marius, to great result, becoming elected Consul this very year alongside Marius. He is thus second-in-command of the Marian faction of the civil war, which even now controls Rome. Though he and your father served together for a time, your father was left with a poor impression of the man, and in his dying days, upon learning of his rise to the consulate, said that such times bid ill tidings for Rome herself. Regardless of his personal qualities, Cinna is one of the most powerful men in the Republic at the moment, and has responded positively to your initial overtures for patronage.
[] Sertorius: The general Sertorius is perhaps one of Rome's greatest generals. Your father served under him for a time in Hispania, and spoke of him often as one of the most brilliant, dedicated, and gifted men that the Republic had ever produced, a fast friend and a loyal ally. A New Man, he was a public speaker and lawyer before becoming a soldier. While serving in Hispania, he won the Grass Crown, the Republic's most celebrated military order, earning him automatic entry into the Senate, and catapulting him into mythic status in the eyes of the Roman people. A noted populares, Sertorius is nevertheless only a tentative ally of Marius and the Marians, but should Sulla ever win the war, his head would be the first on the chopping block.
[] No One: You need no sponsor to prove yourself to the Roman people. You have a good tongue and good wits, and you can win elections without the support of any man. Of course, you will have to find a place to stay. And procure your own food. And run your own campaign. And...
Cursus Honorum
To begin upon the Cursus Honorum, you must first be elected to a position by the Roman people -- or be appointed. What position would you like to seek?
[] Military Tribune: The post of military tribune, or commander, has long been the first stepping-stone on the path to recognition for any Roman man. The people of Rome are allowed to elect sixteen tribunes to the post each year, and the candidates are all young men of good standing around the age of 20 -- in a word, yourself. It will require all your skill and charisma to get elected over men with more beloved names, but it is a feat you are confident you can manage.
[] Broad-Striped Tribune: Five out of the six tribunes assigned to a legion are elected by the people, but the sixth, or broad-striped tribune, is assigned by the Senate. A young man of Senatorial or Patrician rank, he is afforded more respect and dignity than a normal tribune. You would have to appeal to your patron, whoever he might be, to speak on your behalf in the Senate. (Unavailable if you select No Patron)
[] Staff Tribune: You could seek out a position in the staff of a legate or powerful commander. If you could win over such a commander (perhaps through the aid of your sponsor) you would become the aide to this commander, personally selected by him to aid him on and off the battlefield. Such firsthand experience of command could shape you into a true leader.
[] No Position: You could always take a year to build up your name and position in Rome, and perhaps see if next year's elections might offer you a stronger position from which to start up the cursus honorum. As you are still young, such a break would not harm your career -- and depending on the events of the intervening year, might actually help it significantly.
[] Broad-Striped Tribune: Five out of the six tribunes assigned to a legion are elected by the people, but the sixth, or broad-striped tribune, is assigned by the Senate. A young man of Senatorial or Patrician rank, he is afforded more respect and dignity than a normal tribune. You would have to appeal to your patron, whoever he might be, to speak on your behalf in the Senate. (Unavailable if you select No Patron)
[] Staff Tribune: You could seek out a position in the staff of a legate or powerful commander. If you could win over such a commander (perhaps through the aid of your sponsor) you would become the aide to this commander, personally selected by him to aid him on and off the battlefield. Such firsthand experience of command could shape you into a true leader.
[] No Position: You could always take a year to build up your name and position in Rome, and perhaps see if next year's elections might offer you a stronger position from which to start up the cursus honorum. As you are still young, such a break would not harm your career -- and depending on the events of the intervening year, might actually help it significantly.
There is now a TWELVE-HOUR MORATORIUM on all votes.
Use this time to discuss the choices available and create different Plans. As previously discussed, any votes not in plan form, or submitted before the moratorium is up, will not be counted.
As always, discussion is rewarded.
Use this time to discuss the choices available and create different Plans. As previously discussed, any votes not in plan form, or submitted before the moratorium is up, will not be counted.
As always, discussion is rewarded.
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A Note on Roman Politics
- Location
- Texas
Roman politics were a confusing, brutal, and byzantine (heh) mess. I'll provide a few quick pointers for those of you not in the know or just a little rusty on your 2000-year-old political intricacies.
First off, the core of Roman politics in the late Republic: the Roman Senate, and it's divisions, the populares and the optimates.
The Roman Senate was the core of the Republic. Headed by two consuls who were elected every year, the Senate was composed of land-owning nobilis, Romans descended from Romans who had already sat on the Senate, or who had earned inclusion into the Senate through bravery or prestige. The populares and optimates were largely unofficial factions in the Roman Senate, organized along political lines.
The populares, as the name implies, were of the people. They courted the plebians and the lower classes, promising to fix their problems, inequalities of wealth, and provide them with jobs, food, and security -- the same things the poor have always wanted. The populares was often the party of demagogues and rabble-rousers, senators who rose to power by giving long speeches about making Rome great again. It was notably also the party of soldiers such as Gaius Marius, Mark Antony, and Julius Caesar, all of whom won glory on the battlefield and harnessed it into popular support at home. The populares were defined by their willingness to appeal to the people and use their popular support to defy the traditions and rules of the Republic, ultimately circumventing the democratic ideal of Rome.
As the game starts, the populares are the party of Gaius Marius, Rome's most famous general, who, with popular support, has seized the city of Rome from his enemy Sulla and the rival optimates.
The optimates were the polar opposite of the populares. Anchored in four centuries of tradition, they were the party of the aristocracy and the patricians, devoted to reducing the power of the plebians and the common folk and increasing the power of the Senate itself. By their nature conservative, they sought to keep the status quo of the Republic and prevent opportunistic generals like Caesar from becoming dictators.
Now, however, they are the party of Lucius Cornelius Sulla, a general almost as famed as Marius, who opposes the progressive reforms of Marius and his populares. Overseas defeating a rebellion in Greece when Marius seized power, Sulla is returning to Rome with a legion at his back as the game begins, and is supported by many old and powerful noble families in Rome herself.
These were not hard parties as we think of them today, but rather described the way a Senator chose to act. A Senator could, at different times through his life, court the people and support hardline legislation that curbed their rights. The populares and optimates were used to group senators who, at that moment in time, chose to consistently appeal to either the people or the aristocracy for support. They did not always work together as a unified party, and some often switched allegiances as convenient.
Now, one wonders, how can this be a democracy if the aristocrats control everything?
Well, to put it simply, they don't.
The People's Assembly, composed of all the plebians, or common people, of Rome, elects a Plebian Tribune each year. These tribunes represent the common people to the largely patrician Senate, and can convene the Senate, propose legislation, and act for the people in legal matters. Their most important power, however, is the veto, which gives the people a measure of control over the largely patrician Senate. Any assault on the person of a tribune is against the law -- a fact many tribunes have used to their advantage to physically stop the Senate from voting on a bill.
The plebs, optimates, and populares will all come into conflict in the waning years of the Republic, and Roman politics still hide a ocean's worth of complexity and mazelike contradictions, but this starter should get you brushed up on the terms that will be used frequently in this Quest.
First off, the core of Roman politics in the late Republic: the Roman Senate, and it's divisions, the populares and the optimates.
The Roman Senate was the core of the Republic. Headed by two consuls who were elected every year, the Senate was composed of land-owning nobilis, Romans descended from Romans who had already sat on the Senate, or who had earned inclusion into the Senate through bravery or prestige. The populares and optimates were largely unofficial factions in the Roman Senate, organized along political lines.
The populares, as the name implies, were of the people. They courted the plebians and the lower classes, promising to fix their problems, inequalities of wealth, and provide them with jobs, food, and security -- the same things the poor have always wanted. The populares was often the party of demagogues and rabble-rousers, senators who rose to power by giving long speeches about making Rome great again. It was notably also the party of soldiers such as Gaius Marius, Mark Antony, and Julius Caesar, all of whom won glory on the battlefield and harnessed it into popular support at home. The populares were defined by their willingness to appeal to the people and use their popular support to defy the traditions and rules of the Republic, ultimately circumventing the democratic ideal of Rome.
As the game starts, the populares are the party of Gaius Marius, Rome's most famous general, who, with popular support, has seized the city of Rome from his enemy Sulla and the rival optimates.
The optimates were the polar opposite of the populares. Anchored in four centuries of tradition, they were the party of the aristocracy and the patricians, devoted to reducing the power of the plebians and the common folk and increasing the power of the Senate itself. By their nature conservative, they sought to keep the status quo of the Republic and prevent opportunistic generals like Caesar from becoming dictators.
Now, however, they are the party of Lucius Cornelius Sulla, a general almost as famed as Marius, who opposes the progressive reforms of Marius and his populares. Overseas defeating a rebellion in Greece when Marius seized power, Sulla is returning to Rome with a legion at his back as the game begins, and is supported by many old and powerful noble families in Rome herself.
These were not hard parties as we think of them today, but rather described the way a Senator chose to act. A Senator could, at different times through his life, court the people and support hardline legislation that curbed their rights. The populares and optimates were used to group senators who, at that moment in time, chose to consistently appeal to either the people or the aristocracy for support. They did not always work together as a unified party, and some often switched allegiances as convenient.
Now, one wonders, how can this be a democracy if the aristocrats control everything?
Well, to put it simply, they don't.
The People's Assembly, composed of all the plebians, or common people, of Rome, elects a Plebian Tribune each year. These tribunes represent the common people to the largely patrician Senate, and can convene the Senate, propose legislation, and act for the people in legal matters. Their most important power, however, is the veto, which gives the people a measure of control over the largely patrician Senate. Any assault on the person of a tribune is against the law -- a fact many tribunes have used to their advantage to physically stop the Senate from voting on a bill.
The plebs, optimates, and populares will all come into conflict in the waning years of the Republic, and Roman politics still hide a ocean's worth of complexity and mazelike contradictions, but this starter should get you brushed up on the terms that will be used frequently in this Quest.
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- Location
- Festering in a vat of acid
Speaking of Rome. I just finished listening to the new episode of the Hardcore History Podcast, and he talked about the games going on in the Colosseum. It was really brutal, like throat cutting during intermission so the crowd wouldn't become bored, and torture where the crowd would yell out what they wanted the torturer to cut next. The episode was called Painfotainment, if you want to listen to it.
- Location
- Earth
Hmm. I need to think about the other votes, but for patron I'm going to nail my colours to the mast for Scaevola. He's far and away the best legal scholar currently active and one of the best provincial governors. I can't think of anyone better able to help us fill the deplorable, unRoman hole in our education. Even leaving that aside, there's a degree of prestige to be gained from such an eminent figure taking a punt on us.
Now, there is a degree of danger in this. OTL, there was an attempt on his life in 86BC, and he was murdered in 82. Marius, Cinna et al are far from principled men. I think it's worth it, though I also think that, should we opt for Scaevola, we shouldn't stand for election this year. Spend the year learning instead.
Now, there is a degree of danger in this. OTL, there was an attempt on his life in 86BC, and he was murdered in 82. Marius, Cinna et al are far from principled men. I think it's worth it, though I also think that, should we opt for Scaevola, we shouldn't stand for election this year. Spend the year learning instead.
And we'd better choose bodyguard for head servant.
[] [The Servant] Glaber
There are civil wars ahead. Bodyguard will come in handy.
[] [The Curtiline] Marriage Trickery
He's dumb, we're smart. We can totally goad the guy to do something stupid.
[] [Patron] Scaevola
For reasons better explained by Ceasar.
[] [Cursus Honorum] No Position
Let's educate ourselves, cultivate connections and get a little experience.
There are civil wars ahead. Bodyguard will come in handy.
[] [The Curtiline] Marriage Trickery
He's dumb, we're smart. We can totally goad the guy to do something stupid.
[] [Patron] Scaevola
For reasons better explained by Ceasar.
[] [Cursus Honorum] No Position
Let's educate ourselves, cultivate connections and get a little experience.
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- Location
- Texas
Curtilinus is a Marian, as are most men of standing in Rome right now — at least publicly. Formerly a lifelong optimate, his 'defection' to the populares is understood to be little more than political skin-saving. He's got a long memory for slights, but, like most Senators, will change his mind on most anything for enough coin.
Thinking about it, I don't recall Scaevola having any sons, just a daughter. (Mucia Tertia, the half-sister of Metellus Celer, whom we're likely to contest several elections with. OTL, she ends up married to, and later divorced from, Pompey.)
If my memory isn't failing me, that means that he has no readily apparent heir. Play our cards right and make a good impression, we might be able to snaffle up a few of his clients if and when he dies.
If my memory isn't failing me, that means that he has no readily apparent heir. Play our cards right and make a good impression, we might be able to snaffle up a few of his clients if and when he dies.
- Location
- USA
Seeing as no one else has said anything or made a plan yet, I'll take a shot at this. First off above are the stats we have, which is something we should keep in mind before we make any of our decisions.
She seems like the choice we'd want to take if we're looking to do a lot of intrigue within Rome. She seems to be smart and loyal, and her skill set would avail us well in Rome considering the nature of Roman politics so she seems like a strong choice if that is the route we want to go by, as she can probably help bolster our average subterfuge stat.
Useful as muscle and probably not much else. Considering we chose martial as one of our focuses I think we should be strong enough to handle our own, and aside from his use as a bodyguard he won't do much for our household in Rome.
Obviously as the Steward he would probably work best for making sure our household in Rome is always in working order even when we are not there to mind it. Considering the fact that stewardship is our lowest stat, he would be very useful in helping make up for that.
Simply put the most charismatic of the servants we could take. He seems like he could both be used to work as a steward or perhaps even as an emissary in Rome.
While he is the most able and talented of our servants, I don't believe it is worth forcing him to forgo an oath simply to go to Rome with us. While we obviously could compel him to go with us, and he would remain loyal, I think we can manage without him and possibly benefit from leaving him behind. After all, we so far do not know why he chose to make on oath never to return to Rome, for all we know bringing him with us could mean bringing back old enemies of his or something.
So out of the servant options I feel like I would be most likely to pick either Mancina or Prosperina, as they buttress our two weakest stats.
What it says on the tin. The safest option for us, at least in the short term, but if things go south in the marriage, as they seem likely to do from the current state of things, it could turn into a long term problem that would have both their family and our sister resentful to us.
This is our best bet if we want to get the marriage cancelled. This option is the one that relies on some of our strongest stats, those being intelligence and charisma, and is the most likely to get us a beneficial outcome out of all of this. While this will probably cost us some influence and possibly money, I see this as the best long term option for us as this will still allow us to potentially part amiably, or at least not as enemies of Curtilinus the Elder, and will also keep our sister happy. Then again, as we are the one approaching Curtilinus the Elder for a negotiation into cancelling the marriage, we will be approaching from a position of weakness and everyone will know it. So while our stats should help us with this option, we will likely lose something in pursuing this option.
This one seems like the riskiest option, but also potentially the most rewarding. But when taking into account or stats, considering we only have an average subterfuge score, I am wary of risking our reputation in Rome before we've even set foot there and essentially make an enemy for life.
Another simple option, though one that is less diplomatic than negotiations. By doing this we will likely make an enemy out of the Senator, and we can only hope to rely on luck to find a better match for our sister in Rome, hopefully one that is powerful enough to counter the enmity we've created between us and Curtilinus.
When it comes to our choice of patron, one of the things we have to keep in mind is the factional division. Considering how one of our strongest assets is our oratorical skill, I think we would be a good fit for the Marian faction, since they are the populares faction. While history does end up with Sulla and the optimates winning the Civil War, that doesn't mean that we can't use our influence to change how things progress here.
As for the options well...:
Essentially the only real option to join Sulla's faction. A powerful figure, however history has him dying to an assassin soon, so unless we could prevent that it would not be a very good long term to choose him as a patron. A risky choice, but also potentially a rewarding one if played right.
An interesting choice. While our build wouldn't really complement ourselves by having him as a patron, due to our poor stewardship skills, we could be useful as an orator if need be considering that he is a noted populares, and our skills would likely avail ourselves there. However like Scaevola, history was also not kind to him as well considering his violent death.
A very powerful figure, even into the time of Caesar, however he was also known through history as a tyrant. Considering our father's poor impression of him I'm not too enthusiastic about him as a patron. Then again, if we want to ride on someone's coattails into power, then he would be a good bet all things considered, even if he is likely to be overambitious with questionable morals.
One of the more interesting choices offered. While history eventually has him as one of the losers of the Civil War, I think he still is a choice that should be considered. Firstly, after taking into account our father's measure of him he is both a talented and loyal man, someone who we could probably trust, in so far as trust goes in Rome. Secondly, while he is an ally of the Marians he isn't fully in their fold, so if things play out well enough he could go independent depending on the results of the Civil War. Thirdly, as a populares, and a very popular one at that, we would be able to best use our skill of oratory in service to him, while also using the more favorable crowd to our advantage in building up a support base of our own. Finally, one of the main things that attracted to me to him is the fact that he could serve as a great mentor to us, seeing as he is skilled not only in martial pursuits, but also in oratory as well as in law. While it would be dangerous to join Sertorius considering how history originally unfolded, I think this gamble would be a worthy one.
When it comes to the choice of Cursus Honorum, the choices are essentially configured around how we want to gain our position if we want them at all.
Probably the most challenging way we could earn our Cursus Honorum, compared to the others at least, but also doable. Due to our skill at oratory and our innate charisma, I think we have a good shot at convincing the people to elect us as a Tribune, one of the first stepping stones towards power. However as we are campaigning against others we will likely come up against fierce opposition and potentially make enemies.
For plans that involve choosing a patron, this one is likely one of the more surefire ways to gain the title of Tribune. One of the safer choices as we likely don't have to compete against others in public, but also one that we could potentially lose if we lose favor with our patron. Out of the options given the position of Broad-Striped Tribune is superior to that of the normal Tribunes mostly due to:
Article: The second-in-command to the legate was the tribunus laticlavius or 'broad-stripe' tribune (named after the width of the stripe used to demarcate him on his tunic and toga),[6] usually a young man of Senatorial rank. He was given this position to learn and watch the actions of the legate. They often found themselves leading their unit in the absence of a legate, and some legions were permanently commanded by a broad-stripe tribune, such as those stationed in Egypt, as an Augustan law required that no member of the Senatorial Order ever enter Egypt.[7] In contrast to the broad-stripe tribune, the other five 'thin stripe' tribunes were lower in rank, and were called the tribuni angusticlavii. These 'officer cadets'[6] were men of equestrian rank who had military experience, and yet had no authority: they were allowed to sit on a court martial but they held no power in battle. Most thin-stripe tribunes served the legionary legate, yet a lucky few (such as Agricola) were selected to serve on the staff of the provincial governor.[8] According to Tacitus, they did not always take their appointment as seriously as they might, contrasting Agricola's tribuneship to his peers by saying "[Agricola did not], like many young men who convert military service into wanton pastime, avail himself licentiously or slothfully of his tribunitial title, or use his inexperience to spend his time in pleasures and absences from duty".[8]
So compared to the ordinary Tribunes, gaining the title of Broad-Striped Tribune would likely give us the ability to earn actual combat experience and potentially glory, with the chance of leading a Legion if we are either skilled or unlucky enough to be given the opportunity.
Compared to the other choices, this one seems odd in comparison. However when you take into account the choice of patrons, to me this one seems optimal if we chose Sertorius as our patron as he could easily appoint us to a position within his staff or to one of the commands of his allies. To me this one is the best of both worlds as it allows us to learn with first hand experience under a commander, but also learn under a commander who we could likely trust.
While this option would delay our entry into the political field, it would allow us to strengthen our position. The cons, are that we would likely not be able to gain any glory or get any battlefield experience for a year, the pros are that we could use the opportunity to build up or stats and our political standing through other means.
So with all of that taken into account, here is my tentative plan for this vote seeing as the moratorium is still up:
[] Plan Populus Romanus
-[] Proserpina
-[] Negotiation
-[] Sertorius
-[] Staff Tribune
Here is my reasoning for my plan. Prosperina is the servant I chose as she will likely be able to act as a counterweight to our average subterfuge score within Rome. She is said to be intelligent, and has a reputation as serving as an agent of our father. While she might not be suited for much else other than acting as an average steward, which isn't too bad considering our score, and essentially our own agent within Rome, when you take into consideration the amount of plots and nefarious schemes that occur within the city, that is worth it's weight in gold. Taking her would allow the other servants who we leave behind to be able to safely run our family's estate, which should be beneficial to us as well considering our appalling stewardship score.
When it comes to choosing negotiation, I chose it because it allows us to leverage some of our stats to get a desirable result. Unlike going through with the marriage, which has a good potential to end in long term disaster or tragedy for us, or trying to attempt to use trickery when our score in subterfuge is only average, I would rather we try our hand at using our intelligence and charisma now to get a good clean break rather than simply push a problem off into the future, or create one right now.
As for Sertorious, I chose him not only because it synergizes well with the Cursus Honorum choice, but also because this is the choice which seems best suited for us. Considering that he is a noted populares known for previously being a public speaker and lawyer, and is currently a powerful commander we would be able to use our best stats of martial, oratory, and intelligence to serve under him while also learning much from him as a result. While he does have ties to the Marians, the way it is described makes me believe he could go independent if necessary. Finally, considering the words our father said about him, he also seems to be one of our best bets at getting an ally we can trust due to his loyalty. While history does have him as a loser of a civil war, I think it would be interesting for us to reverse his fortunes in that arena.
As for our Cursus Honorum choice, well I already illustrated my reasoning for that above.
Hopefully this is able to sway some people to vote for this eventually.