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Wormverse ideas, recs, and fic discussion thread 1

There is Infinitesimal, very early canon divergence (like, before Taylor is born divergence) with a sort of self insert main character.
It's not heavy on transhumanism, but it is there, and hopefully will have more of it as story gets up to speed.
 
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Hello everyone!, this is an idea I just had, please tell me if any one would like take it.

David please don't say anything

You see, a few days ago the new Trailer of FF XVI come out and there it show us a new type of Summoner: the "Enkai", people fused with a Entity (not an "entity" bt a mythical representation of a concept) who give them powers based on the Entity's domain; so this is the idea:

Taylor triggers and Get the power of the "Enkai" Joshua (his entity in the game is "the Phoenix" (representation of Life fire and Rebirth) and she became a Hero (or villain) trying to avoid Coil who wants her dead in order to trigger her powers (if she dies she rebirth as a Baby, depending of the Mana (the influence from capes) she would grow fast or slow, her PRT rating would be:

Blaster 6 (pyrokinesis)
Shaker 5 (fire creation)
Striker 1 (healing (true healing), can coat her arms in fire)
Changer 10 (can transform into a gigant phoenix at cost of her life, is almost as strong as a 50% power EB, but she don't possess control and only follows her last command, if her last thoug is "let me out!" before dying she would do all in her power to get out to free ait, in the Trailer Joshua last wish was "kill them all" and his phoenix do that; she can control this ability to only project part of her true form)
Breaker 2 (able to coat herself in flames)
Trump YES (able to rebirth after dying and cannot die; her tail Feathers can heal a person at the doors of the death)
Note: Taylor would be an Open trigger here, or at least I see it like that.


Note if Taylor rebirth she became and egg and depending on the number of Capes nearby she would grow in the egg (if there is few (2 or 3) she would end as a child when the egg births, if there is a lot (6-8) she would rebirth as a Adolecent, if there is none she would birth as a Baby.

Side note: Taylor absorbs DNA before rebirth: if she rebirths on the empire her hair would end Blond and with blue eyes and a "Aryan" body type; if she rebirths in middle of the ABB she would end as Asian, if she rebirth next to new wave she would end blond and headstrong as a mule

EDIT:Well looks like nobody liked the project.

Really people: what is wrong with the idea?
 
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Lokimotion said:
Aside from the constant invasions of privacy, at one point she tried to blackmail someone into being in a relationship with her.
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To be fair to Kenzie, she's a traumatized twelve year old who already had mental issues and abusive parents that just had two of her best friends die recently and is also aware that the world will end within the next few hours.

She was moved to different cities constantly, accidentally messed up relationships with people she loved, was tricked into believing that all adults were pieces of shit by Teacher, was cut into pieces along with all of her friends, and when she called out the Heartbroken for talking trash about her behind her back, they all ganged up on her because "hurt the chicken, invasion of privacy, it's not like you had a perfectly valid explanation" like hypocritical little fucks.

I hate the Heartbroken though so I'm biased.

She was crippled by survivors guilt and a savior complex. She also has a valid but slightly overblown guilt complex.
 
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Valmond said:
Because, until she used her power on Victoria in worm, she did not come of as a complete monster to people...
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That's a low bar. The only para/humans in Worm that come off as monstrous (to me) are the Nazis, some of the Slaughterhouse Nine, the ones who were basically taken over by their shards, and the characters who only showed up maybe twice and never got any development.

Before I start, keep in mind that this is only my interpretation, and not even the entirety of my interpretation. So if you go off on a tangent about how X actually means Y, you risk having me say "Yes, what's your point?"

When I read Worm, Amy's two most obvious flaws were her black-and-white morality and her obsession with her sister.
Shades of the former can be seen almost all the way back to her introduction, before her fall starts, and is most clear in her interactions with Taylor, a character whose very existence flies in the face of such dichotomies. It also manifests in her martyr complex; if she doesn't do everything she theoretically can to help people, she's failing to do good, which is evil. (Again, this isn't the only source of her problems, it's just the only one relevant to this discussion.) The black-and-white dichotomy is part of why finding out that her father was a supervillain is such a blow to her; without that, even some "genetic villainy" wouldn't be a serious problem if you had already proved that you could be good. But if morality is binary, and Amy is the daughter of a supervillain, and even her healing comes from such a vile source as her biodad's osteokinesis...well, the question of if she's like him is pretty important.​
The obsession is kept in check by Amy's puritanical morality for a while. But then Bonesaw shatters Amy's self-perception of purity. Not only does Bonesaw force Amy to kill one of her creations, she forces Amy to accept that she could have been doing more, could have helped her dad and so many more people, but didn't. That's not the only step to Amy violating Vicky and joining her supervillainous father, but it's an important one. Once Amy couldn't see herself as a Good Person anymore, she started slipping down that slope.

But regardless of her reasons, and regardless of whether the rape that the author says happened but was poorly-conveyed "actually" happened*, Amy violated her sister's body when she was helpless and inflicted deep emotional scars. (And this isn't one bad deed on an otherwise good life; I could list off other stuff she does and says to Taylor et al, but it's all pretty petty compared to that physical violation.) So whether or not your definition of "complete monster" includes Amy, whether or not you find her sympathetic, she isn't a good person.

*Which, to me, is kind of a silly question. After all, the rest of the stuff she did then serves as a pretty straightforward symbolic rape.
Also because the question about whether something really happened in a fictional context is kinda silly.
I understand why Wildbow wouldn't make rape explicit; he tried very hard to avoid depicting sexual violence in Worm, and in his stories in general. Allusions and references sometimes, depiction never. This seems like an understandable stance to me; depicting that kind of stuff is fraught territory. I know I wouldn't want to write a rape scene.
I didn't pick up on the rape thing when I read Worm, but there's a lot of stuff I don't pick up on my own. All of this is entirely consistent with Wildbow intending the rape thing to have happened, being too subtle, and then trying to correct for that subtlety in Ward. I see no reason not to think this is the case, and since the text in Ward clarifies a lot of things that happened in Worm, I don't see why it wouldn't supersede Worm.

Whether or not you think it's a better story direction...that's a separate issue, and one I can see both sides of. It's a natural endpoint for Amy's fall, bookended by fucking with Victoria, but it's kinda redundant with making her into the Wretch, but it makes her violation of Victoria more clearly intentional, but it comes off as over-the-top, but... It's complicated, and I don't feel qualified to talk about whether or not rape would fit this particular storyline well.
 
Really people: what is wrong with my idea?

You see, a few days ago the new Trailer of FF XVI come out and there it show us a new type of Summoner: the "Enkai", people fused with a Entity (not an "entity" bt a mythical representation of a concept) who give them powers based on the Entity's domain; so this is the idea:

Taylor triggers and Get the power of the "Enkai" Joshua (his entity in the game is "the Phoenix" (representation of Life fire and Rebirth) and she became a Hero (or villain) trying to avoid Coil who wants her dead in order to trigger her powers (if she dies she rebirth as a Baby, depending of the Mana (the influence from capes) she would grow fast or slow, her PRT rating would be:

Blaster 6 (pyrokinesis)
Shaker 5 (fire creation)
Striker 1 (healing (true healing), can coat her arms in fire)
Changer 10 (can transform into a gigant phoenix at cost of her life, is almost as strong as a 50% power EB, but she don't possess control and only follows her last command, if her last thoug is "let me out!" before dying she would do all in her power to get out to free ait, in the Trailer Joshua last wish was "kill them all" and his phoenix do that; she can control this ability to only project part of her true form)
Breaker 2 (able to coat herself in flames)
Trump YES (able to rebirth after dying and cannot die; her tail Feathers can heal a person at the doors of the death)
Note: Taylor would be an Open trigger here, or at least I see it like that.


Note if Taylor rebirth she became and egg and depending on the number of Capes nearby she would grow in the egg (if there is few (2 or 3) she would end as a child when the egg births, if there is a lot (6-8) she would rebirth as a Adolecent, if there is none she would birth as a Baby.

Side note: Taylor absorbs DNA before rebirth: if she rebirths on the empire her hair would end Blond and with blue eyes and a "Aryan" body type; if she rebirths in middle of the ABB she would end as Asian, if she rebirth next to new wave she would end blond and headstrong as a mule

And by the way: if you see the mayority of the WORM serial readers we almost in all case hate Amy's situation, if you see in real life a situation like that you would have seen than she don't even has a chance to avoid that from happening dude:

Cut her some slack: Carol ruined her Mark ignored her and She was (forcefully and against their will (Vicky a lot of times before Ward blamed her Aura for Amy addiction) Adicted to her sister who she could not even hate (a way to break apart from a drug (this is the only comparition to Amy reaction to her sister) because is the ONLY good thing on her life, the persons treat her as an object and she is overworked.

I seen people break for less, in fact the fact than she manage to resist so much time…

Look: Amy in Ward has show how much she hates herself for what she done to victoria, in fact after she done the fact she tried to fix her but she could not thanks to Bonesaw manipulations.
Amy is not a Bad person, she is a good person who breaked.

In fact she still is a good person in Ward…

And about her becaming a "villain", considering than the only persons who helped her (beside Victoria who hated her) were villians… remember the only persons who treated Amy as a person instead of a thing was Tattletale, Skitter and her father (marquis); heck even Dean (gallant) who could avoid all this decided to take a voyeur pleasure (I biased, sorry)in looking Amy break down.
 
hakunoX said:
Really people: what is wrong with my idea?
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Can't speak for anyone else, but my problems are threefold:
1. I don't care about Final Fantasy 16, so giving her the powers of one of their classes is...meh.
2. It's an alt-power-Taylor story. I've seen a million. If you want to catch my interest, I need something beyond power descriptions and arbitrary (and bizarre) guesses about PRT ratings.
3. That's a very strong power. "True healing" (let alone near-resurrection) is extremely rare and unusual in the Wormverse, the pyrokinesis sounds potent, and reincarnative immortality is still immortality. And then there's the Changer power...

Also, what's an "open trigger"?



And by the way: if you see the mayority of the WORM serial readers we almost in all case hate Amy's situation, if you see in real life a situation like that you would have seen than she don't even has a chance to avoid that from happening dude:

Cut her some slack: Carol ruined her Mark ignored her and She was (forcefully and against their will (Vicky a lot of times before Ward blamed her Aura for Amy addiction) Adicted to her sister who she could not even hate (a way to break apart from a drug (this is the only comparition to Amy reaction to her sister) because is the ONLY good thing on her life, the persons treat her as an object and she is overworked.

I seen people break for less, in fact the fact than she manage to resist so much time…
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Re; Vicky's Aura: I don't remember Vicky blaming her aura for the addiction, and a quick Google search suggests that the ultimate origin of that idea is this Wildbow quote, which is vague—"I wondered if anyone would pay attention to that." Four and a half years later, we see him respond to someone talking about the effect Victoria's aura had on Amy with "You might be jumping to conclusions," which is about as clear a "no" as Wildbow's apt to give. Vicky's aura may have had an effect on Amy, but it probably wasn't that profound.

As to the other parts...I wouldn't say that Mark ignored her, he just has his own problems that make difficult to even handle his own problems. You're being a little blunt about Carol's contribution, but yeah.
That's not the main thrust of my counterargument. My main argument is this: So what? Amy had a shitty life. She developed coping mechanisms and, to paraphrase Lostman138, latched too hard onto the only member of her adopted family who liked her. You know who else had shitty childhoods? Half the people in Worm, and a hell of a lot in real life.
Sticking to Worm: Taylor lost one parent, had the other drift away, admittedly to a lesser extent, and then her best friend—the closest thing she had to a Vicky—turned on her. Rachel was neglected far worse in her childhood and had her pre-existing issues amplified by her power, and while she has serious anger problems she's never raped anyone, symbolically or otherwise. Sveta lost her home, memory, and bodily control, Miss Militia lost her whole village before being turned into a living minesweeper, Dragon's father performed the AI equivalent of mutilating her (citation), and they're some of the nicest people in the goddamn story.
Not sticking to Worm...I hope I don't need to provide a citation to prove that most people with overbearing or mildly neglectful parents, or even ones bad enough that they qualify as abusive, don't turn out to be rapists or whatever.

Trauma is tragic, but it isn't an excuse. Not on its own.

Look: Amy in Ward has show how much she hates herself for what she done to victoria, in fact after she done the fact she tried to fix her but she could not thanks to Bonesaw manipulations.
Amy is not a Bad person, she is a good person who breaked.

In fact she still is a good person in Ward…
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Amy says she regrets what she did all those years ago and wants to make up for it...but refuses to leave Victoria alone until the end of the story, refuses to admit her problems, and continues to fuck up. With regards to Victoria, she knows her sister has a complex about being touched, especially by Amy specifically, but that doesn't stop her from trying. Oh yeah, and then there's the time she manipulated a situation to spend time with an unconscious Victoria, who she knew didn't want her around, and took a little bit of Victoria for herself. Remember that?

Also, let's review Amy's explanation for why she's not a bad person.
From Within 16.y said:
"Others don't think I'm good. I know I'll sound crazy if I say there's at least one person in my building who watches my comings and goings and keeps an eye on me, but really."
"Really, I suspect you may be right. I know they do the same for some others."
Emboldened, Amy continued, "It makes me want to shake them, and poke a hole in their logic. If I was a bad person, I wouldn't have done what I did. If I was a bad person, I'd have every last thing I wanted, and the world would be better off as a whole."
"I don't understand."
"I'd have just used my power on Victoria. Done. Break down artificial barriers between two people who aren't even blood related. I'd use my power on Carol and Mark, and they'd love me. Mark wouldn't be depressed. They'd accept the relationship. No need for me to run away from home, we're all strong against the Slaughterhouse Nine. I'm free to develop my power and figure things out before Gold Morning. I face the end of the world with Victoria at my side."
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"I'm not a bad person, really. If I was, I'd have forced my entire adoptive family to love me."
There again, we have Amy's black-and-white mindset. There are good people and bad people, and if she was a bad person she would have done worse things to everyone she loved, so she must not be a bad person. Everything she did do is irrelevant, apparently.

And about her becaming a "villain", considering than the only persons who helped her (beside Victoria who hated her) were villians… remember the only persons who treated Amy as a person instead of a thing was Tattletale, Skitter and her father (marquis); heck even Dean (gallant) who could avoid all this decided to take a voyeur pleasure (I biased, sorry)in looking Amy break down.
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First off, fuck off, that's not what Dean did.
Second off, Amy consistently rejected villains' help until she was in the Birdcage.
 
GreatWyrmGold said:
Can't speak for anyone else, but my problems are threefold:
1. I don't care about Final Fantasy 16, so giving her the powers of one of their classes is...meh.
2. It's an alt-power-Taylor story. I've seen a million. If you want to catch my interest, I need something beyond power descriptions and arbitrary (and bizarre) guesses about PRT ratings.
3. That's a very strong power. "True healing" (let alone near-resurrection) is extremely rare and unusual in the Wormverse, the pyrokinesis sounds potent, and reincarnative immortality is still immortality. And then there's the Changer power...

Also, what's an "open trigger"?
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Well answering your questions one by one:



  1. Maybe you don't care but it don't change the fact than it would have little to do with FFXVI, the only link is than Taylor would be the phoenix, and thatis more from Final Fantasy (series).
  2. Well what about a timeline? (again this is a suggestion):
    1. Taylor gets trapped in the locker
    2. Sophia returns after school hours with Emma and with her powers finds Taylor's pulse really weak and almost dead, in order to erase the evidence she puts fire on the locker.
    3. QA trying to avoid the lost of her Host find the Magacite (the dead body of an Aeon (summon of FF)) of Phoenix and in order to keep the [DATA] she use it to empower Taylor; gaining the powers I described because now Taylor's body is Phoenix old one (QA allow her to control herself).
    4. Taylor transform into the Phoenix after "dying"; burning Winslow (The phoenix is a gigant bird of the Size of the Sigmurh; I think is obvious) and killing a lot of people, Sophia call the PRT and they fight TaPhoenix; this is the "open trigger" (a trigger who denies a "cape persona"
    5. after Winslow is burned to the ground TaPhoenix gets surrounded by Ashes and became an Egg; QA tries to leave but found than Taylor is still alive, Armsmaster found a few cellphones who recorded the Locker incident.
    6. The egg is taken to The Rig where AM recruits Dragon and New Wave (more likely Dragon and Panacea) to research the Egg, the Egg start craking and they try to brek it down, Panacea stop them and Taylor rebirths as a little girl (memories a little Fuzzy) who looks like a fussion of Dragon, Armsmaster, Panacea and herself, she confuse Amy with her "mom"and imprits her (like a baby bird) Armsmaster take samples and with Help of NW they take her to "custody" with GG loving her "nephew".
    7. Armsmaster found about the locker and informs the directors, Piggot wants to find about the "Young Endbringer" and they arrest Sophia, Coil helps Sophia to escape and she goes to "erase the evidence"; Emma and Madison get arrested and the fear of being caught cause both to trigger (Emma because they "are negating her innocence" and Madison "because she allow all to be taken so far") Sophia burns The hebert house (and kills Danny) in order to "eliminate the witnesses" and goes after Taylor.
    8. Taylor (named "Jasha" by Vicky) manage to charm NW (except Carol who distruss her) and after a few scene of Taylor and NW bonding we pass a scene of Taylor trying to sleep, she decide to go with her "mom" and she victoria and Amy sleep together, Sophia enters and try to "kill the Endbringer" in order to get the PR to her side and make herself invaluable (Coil helps but because he wants Sophia truly dependant of Him), she shoots an Awaken the girls after her shoot fails and hits Victoria (with her "ghostly" trick)Amy tries to help Vicky and Jasha tries to defend her "family" deploying a few Pyrokinetic attacks who Sophia manage to avoid, after a few attacks to each oher, Sophia shots an arrow who almost kill Amy and is found by the rest of NW.
    9. Taylor (while Sophia tries to escape from Manpower and the rest of NW) tries to stop Amy bleeding and finds her "healing powers" managing to "resurrect" her "mommy", Vicky after being healed to found about Shadow stalker trying to kill Amy and goes (while holding "jasha") to kill the bicht, Sophia manage to put a Arrow through "Jasha" Skull and she wished she could defend her "family", she became the Phoenix again and Kills Sophia.
    10. New wave prepare to fight Jasha when Amy hold her and stop her from battling; Jasha calm down and became and Egg again; Armsmaster found her NW and takes them to The Rig, he proves the bitches involvement with "The Phoenix incident" and they use it to forcefully recruits them into the Wards(because they are to valuable (Emma triggers with Eletrokinetic powers(the same of "Queen of the Cards ) and Madison with time powers (think of the Prince of Persia power set)) and potencially usefull) ; Carol find that (not after signing a non-disclosure Contract forbidding her to sue them) they wold not being punishe after the total destruction of Taylor's ex-life.
    11. "Jasha's egg" cracks again revealing another girl (now looking like the daughter of all the members of NW) and Amy confirms than she is still "Jasha" and who almost don't possess Taylor's DNA, but is so close to Amy's and Vicky DNA to be a sister; She imprints on Amy (again)and they take her to be the new "new wave member"; taking the place of her family. Better? More interesting?
  3. Well now I can answer that: the circumstance of the trigger is different but I feel I have to remember you than Queen Administrator is one of the "Royal" Shards: the strongest of all, that means than Taylor's powers after trigging would be one of the strongest, She controls bugs because what cause her trigger is "the crawling of the insects" on her skin; but if she would have triggered another way she could had other set of powers, but again, a "broken" set of powers.
It don't means than you are not "wrong" about Taylor powers being "Hax" but here her powers come from her body (who again, was healed by QA using a remenant of Phoenix body) and QA part is the ability to control all her powers without needing to restrain (if she want to pull a flame she can decide the size, not like others "phoenix" who create accidentally gigants fire balls) and the DNA absorbing to create a new body (if she would not have this ability she would rebirth as a bby always she dies).
 
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GreatWyrmGold said:
But regardless of her reasons, and regardless of whether the rape that the author says happened but was poorly-conveyed "actually" happened*,
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The problem with this is, it requires taking the author's word that something happened which they also said did not happen. "I'm not going to have a rape in my story" is what they said contemporaneous to the event, but we are supposed to disregard it for what they said literally years later. There's an obvious lack of consistency to the argument advanced here. Even Wildbow is against Wildbow's take.
 
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Night said:
The problem with this is, it requires taking the author's word that something happened which they also said did not happen. "I'm not going to have a rape in my story" is what they said contemporaneous to the event, but we are supposed to disregard it for what they said literally years later. There's an obvious lack of consistency to the argument advanced here. Even Wildbow is against Wildbow's take.
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...did you intend to quote the part of my post where I said my argument didn't substantially change whether that happened or not? Because you did, and that kinda makes it look like you're regarding the regardless.


hakunoX said:
Maybe you don't care but it don't change the fact than it would have little to do with FFXVI, the only link is than Taylor would be the phoenix, and thatis more from Final Fantasy (series).
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I guess, but when the first thing someone mentions is that they're taking something from [X] for their fic, I typically skip right past it if I'm not interested in [X]. Which is why your idea got ignored the first time.

Well now I can answer that: the circumstance of the trigger is different but I feel I have to remember you than Queen Administrator is one of the "Royal" Shards: the strongest of all, that means than Taylor's powers after trigging would be one of the strongest, She controls bugs because what cause her trigger is "the crawling of the insects" on her skin; but if she would have triggered another way she could had other set of powers, but again, a "broken" set of powers.
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That...doesn't actually matter? I mean, you can handwave all you like about how Taylor "should" have had a broken set of powers, but that doesn't address the fundamental criticism: Phoenix!Taylor is powerful and resilient enough that not much in the Wormverse would pose a serious threat to her, especially since the most dangerous threats are the ones where there would be the most parahumans around for (e.g. Endbringer attacks, Slaughterhouse Nine shenanigans, the finale). The same goes for healing powers—aside from being a Big Deal in-universe, it makes all sorts of major threats not major because she can just heal them.

Also, the "royal" shards were usually the ones which had the most restrictions placed on their use.

Well how about a timeline?
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Point 3 is weak and kinda nonsensical? It's working overtime to justify why Taylor has QA and also gets a Final Fantasy powerup.
Point 6 is kinda interesting? Having Taylor's reborn self not really be Taylor brings some of the sting back into mortal peril/the die-to-summon-phoenix thing, and having her "imprint" on people means that (if nothing else) her dying means she could end up being claimed/recruited by the bad guys. Cool.
Point 7...yikes. Why would Coil help Sophia escape? Why would she burn down the house of someone who wasn't even there to "eliminate the witnesses"? Danny wasn't a witness until she burned his house down! And Emma and Madison triggering from being arrested is just really dumb. It's not particularly meaningful, or particularly motivated, or particularly stressful (plenty of ordinary folks in Worm go through worse things than being arrested without triggering)...and it doesn't even go anywhere?
Sophia's motivation in Point 8 continues to be nonsense. Whatever, I guess she's the antagonist now.
Point 10...okay...I guess the main plot is over and now the powers Emma and Madison got (which are unrelated to who they are and what their trigger is, okay) make them important somehow.

I like the idea of having a reincarnating, terrifyingly powerful parahuman in Brockton Bay. I don't think the story gains much from having Taylor be that parahuman; the only parts Taylor plays in this story are being in a locker and her dad being killed for no reason. And if you didn't make Jasha Taylor, you could have an antagonist who might have a sensible motivation for trying to screw with her. Say, perhaps Lung figures out how her power works, and tries to kill her and steal the egg so he can recruit her. (Most of the gangs in town would want to do that, but the ABB are the early-story threat and Lung is the biggest-scale conscriptor in town.)
 
Night said:
The problem with this is, it requires taking the author's word that something happened which they also said did not happen. "I'm not going to have a rape in my story" is what they said contemporaneous to the event, but we are supposed to disregard it for what they said literally years later. There's an obvious lack of consistency to the argument advanced here. Even Wildbow is against Wildbow's take.
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Wildbow said that he didn't intend to feature rape in his story, but noted that if it did appear, it would be alluded to rather than depicted or outright stated.
 
GreatWyrmGold said:
I like the idea of having a reincarnating, terrifyingly powerful parahuman in Brockton Bay. I don't think the story gains much from having Taylor be that parahuman; the only parts Taylor plays in this story are being in a locker and her dad being killed for no reason. And if you didn't make Jasha Taylor, you could have an antagonist who might have a sensible motivation for trying to screw with her. Say, perhaps Lung figures out how her power works, and tries to kill her and steal the egg so he can recruit her. (Most of the gangs in town would want to do that, but the ABB are the early-story threat and Lung is the biggest-scale conscriptor in town.)
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There is something i don't explain because i though it was implicit: Taylor still has a role in the story; Jasha (while a new person) power's work like a Phoenix, the rebirth don't erase the past; in that way, the more time Jasha pass without rebirth, the more memories of her "previous lives" she gets, in fact one of the mayor things would be her conflict with Taylor memories (who are, being honest, hellish).



And Emma asn Madison triggers (note: Emma would be a "Cauldron cape") would be important in the story, madison would be a tinker (I forgot that detail) with a "Time" speciality and Emma would have the powers of "Shockwave" from Queen of the Cards (aka: blaster 6 striker 6 (for her electricity) and the weird ability to control ANY electrical machine in a 4 miles range); they would be recluited because they could be powerfull and usefull enough to hurt endbringers.



Taylor/Jasha too, but Phoenix is not as strong as an endbringer; powerfull yeah, can resurrect? Big deal, but defeating EB? Nop, she can do a "Lung" but she cannot solo'd them



And about her healing; think of her as a novice White magician: the more she "heals" the more weak she gets.



Anyways you have any idea of how make it better? Because that is another reason I putting it here (beside giving it to adoption).
 
GreatWyrmGold said:
Re; Vicky's Aura: I don't remember Vicky blaming her aura for the addiction, and a quick Google search suggests that the ultimate origin of that idea is this Wildbow quote, which is vague—"I wondered if anyone would pay attention to that." Four and a half years later, we see him respond to someone talking about the effect Victoria's aura had on Amy with "You might be jumping to conclusions," which is about as clear a "no" as Wildbow's apt to give. Vicky's aura may have had an effect on Amy, but it probably wasn't that profound.
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To be honest, I don't think that you can take "You might be jumping to conclusions" as a fairly clear 'no' while not also taking "I wondered if anyone would pay attention to that." as an equally clear 'yes'. Telling people you were waiting for them to notice something doesn't make any sense if there was nothing there for them to notice. Add in Cherish's interlude immediately prior to Amy's heavily implying that it was at least involved, and Victoria's own interlude showing that Amy can't really tell the difference between Victoria using her aura and just a regular hug, which is a rather weird detail to include for someone as conscientious about characterisation as Wildbow unless it was foreshadowing something.

It was also frequently discussed on the subreddit for years without him saying anything, despite him chiming in to correct other bits of incorrect fanon, like the Ruby Dreams being owned by the ABB.
GreatWyrmGold said:
"I'm not a bad person, really. If I was, I'd have forced my entire adoptive family to love me."
There again, we have Amy's black-and-white mindset. There are good people and bad people, and if she was a bad person she would have done worse things to everyone she loved, so she must not be a bad person. Everything she did do is irrelevant, apparently.
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This is the part that bothers me, because in Worm Amy was very clearly in the opposite camp. She was unshaking in her view that what she had done was unforgivable, that she did not deserve to be forgiven and that she had no right to ever see Victoria again. In Ward, her entire character arc is retconned so that she never decides this and becomes a much worse person in order to serve as an antagonist. Combine this with the blatant protagonist centred morality favouring Victoria and I can't take Ward's depictions of them as consistent with Worm. Add in a lot of people saying that the aura meant that Victoria was responsible for what happened and that Amy is innocent and I think that Wildbow changed it to try and stop the victim blaming. He also admitted in the Doof! Media interview to making Amy worse than he had originally planned, in part due to pushback against people woobifying her.

When it's brought up later in the story, Victoria argues against it by saying that her other family members were exposed more than Amy, despite Ward previously establishing that the Dallons and the Pelhams didn't really spend that much time around each other as you'd think. It also completely ignores the fact that Amy was already emotionally dependent on Victoria and the others were not, and feels like a few scenes added in solely for the purpose of denying the aura theory.
 
Ganurath said:
I wouldn't make any argument that depends on the implicit assumption that Cherish is right, especially in regard to the viability of a plot against Jack.
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Cherish's plan required Jack and the Nine to get extensive brain modifications from Bonesaw in order to circumvent it. Besides, without Broadcast, it is doubtful whether her plan would have been discovered.
 
Lokimotion said:
This is the part that bothers me, because in Worm Amy was very clearly in the opposite camp. She was unshaking in her view that what she had done was unforgivable, that she did not deserve to be forgiven and that she had no right to ever see Victoria again. In Ward, her entire character arc is retconned so that she never decides this and becomes a much worse person in order to serve as an antagonist. Combine this with the blatant protagonist centred morality favouring Victoria and I can't take Ward's depictions of them as consistent with Worm. Add in a lot of people saying that the aura meant that Victoria was responsible for what happened and that Amy is innocent and I think that Wildbow changed it to try and stop the victim blaming. He also admitted in the Doof! Media interview to making Amy worse than he had originally planned, in part due to pushback against people woobifying her.
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o
kay i sick of this battle!



Look everyone, Nobody LIKES WARD!, the story is bad; the characters are Off-character (Crystal being a sugar girl who never see anything wrong, Vista wanting to be a little girl, Dragon being mastered by teacher (a impossibility) Vicky being a gigant bicht, amy ignoring her realizations.



Worm is Taylor story from the rise of Skitter to the Fall of Khepri; after that, is just a story who don't know where end; the titans? Bad done, Teacher? Awfull done, AMY? Even worse.



More than Half of the fandom ignores WARD for a good reason; Wildbow admitted than the story should have ended with Taylor's "death".



The only good things Ward showed where the characters of Fleur and Lightstar, who we don't see in the original, the rest? Pure AU Bullshit who is boring and Awful.
 
Valmond said:
How dare people feel sympathetic towards this girl the universe keeps shitting on, i'll show them. :V
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... Y'know, there might be a story to be told here, following on from an old idea I had:

Liquid Ink said:
Perhaps the narrative could be flipped, making Taylor a delusional individual (perhaps parallels could be drawn between Canon Taylor and Tagg, demanding Piggot ends her totalitarian regime), and re-writing the scene from Piggot's irritated-and-then-mounting-concern POV, or later on from Danny's POV as he begins to realise just how badly his daughter's experiences map to reality. Taylor gets M/S tanked as it turns out there's a new cape in town that completely warps the mind? Or maybe Taylor gets out of M/S but her mind and memories remain, and she's left trying to reconcile her memories of an intentionally exaggerated fanonverse with the actual Wormverse, and finds the Wormverse to be imperfect but a substantial step up for everyone involved.
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A master arrives in the City that overwrites people's personalities for arbitrary and seemingly petty reasons. With Amy as the protagonist, she keeps getting repeatedly hit the hardest and worst, over and over, and has to keep forcing herself to soul-search and self-examine her memories and circumstances to spot the revisions and implanted self-delusions maintaining them, in order to keep going and bring down this master specifically targeting and revising her. Mememto-like.

At no point can she successfully defend or accept her past because fully because they may have been dreamed up by someone else, and maybe she can't even remember correctly. And then, for shits and giggles, the story ends with the master dead, but as a last "fuck you" he amends everyone's memories to be "canon"-compliant and also erase his entire existence, just in time for Ward to begin.

Liquid Ink said:
Not even the story ending can prevent the Wormverse from getting worse.
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... Possibly too on the nose as a critique of Amy's inconsistent character between stories, but I think it has the potential of being a really interesting premise. Great for playing around with ideas like fanon Armsmaster in canon, drawing attention to how these character variations don't make sense, and don't fit in now or never could have to begin with
 
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Damn, I'm actually being convinced to avoid Ward now.

Still think everyone is a bit too enthusiastic in battering it, however. It may be bad, but it's kinda unproductive to hate on it incessantly.

Anyways...

Have there been any records of a normal human killing a Cape?
 
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